Xone: DB4- the official unofficial thread
Xone: DB4- the official unofficial thread Posted on: 18.10.2011 by Romelia Stankard (former thread title Xone: DB4- convince me not to sell off my possessions and drain my bank account)I mean it's just a mixer, nothing I should sell my S4 and some other expensive possessions for and drain my bank account completely for... right? I am having a hard time with this decision. I know it won't make me a better DJ, yet it gives me the urge to make irrational spending decisions. Please talk me out of it. | |
| Brant Briski 14.10.2012 | you'll find using sweep a lot more useful once the new firmware is released, pre fx eq and post fader fx make all the difference in the world for this application. while you're waiting for that you can try to click in beat fragments using the input matrix or input mode switch. but bigger rewards come with fw2... |
| Tatum Ansaldo 13.10.2012 | Just played with sampling using the sweep effect in send mode. Set time to 4/1, D/W to half and feedback (expression knob) to maximum. The effect now samples whatever you put into it for one bar, with the input filtered by the sweep filter on the screen. Be BLOODY careful though, with feedback on max it adds to the effect every 4 beats and nothing is lost, so even if you let it run a tiny bit past one bar on the input it peaks all over the place and makes horrible noises. The EQ and fader are all post FX at the moment, so there's not a lot you can do with it, but it works. When you're done you have to turn feedback all the way down to 'empty' the effect or it'll come right back in as it was if you try to use it on a different track. |
| Cliff Lohman 13.10.2012 | Two ways that im comfortable doing... Warning, make sure ur careful wth levels and shit like that if ur doing this on a big system... Ad dont test it on a big system til ur possitive u can control the levels comfortably and wthout creating insane feedback loops.. Method one: i like this when i want to use rmx for drum loops on its xpad. 1. Xone menu - make sure u set hp mode to norm, clean on, auto mute on, auto cue off - and booth set to TRIM (this is very important!!) - u need to lay with this to find whats right for u but i use -13.5 - booth also set to source phones 2. Wire xone booth out to rmx in Wire rmx out to the mic line in on top of xone. Press the little button above it for line. Change mic channel to CH1 with switch on top of xone 3. Put booth vol on one all the way down Mic level all the way down and mic channel off 4. Set rmx in and out levels lower than 0 (til u get the vol chain adjusted right) 5. Play a drum loop on rmx xpad 6. Turn on mic CH ON button and take chan fader for chan1 up.. 7. Aply xone fx and shit as usual (same with rmx) ------ 8. Now, when u want to send xone chan 2 3 or 4 to rmx, u use the CUe red buttons on 2 3 or 4 to do so and take the booth knob on xone up to ncrease its output. Make sure ur hp cue is on cue side. Other way to try is switch the mic chan to MIX and then u can basically save the trouble of spme things (but u lose xone fx) Play with various configs like this til u find one that works for ur style of mixing. U obviously have to work around cueing and shit like that so see what works.. @@@warning make sure ur levels are low on all parts of the chain while testing or ull seriously blow something up@@@ |
| Cliff Lohman 12.10.2012 | Ya, let me look how i wired it when i get home and ill explain.. Took a lil trial to get to a place where i was happy |
| Sha Books 12.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by mix architekt
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| Kiyoko Wellisch 12.10.2012 | Yeah, the soundcard works fine for non-timecode stuff. A&H Xone: DB4 - The ultimate VDJ DVS mixer :P |
| Mariano Godina 12.10.2012 | i dont believe its certified but it does work, i used it without timecode and it works fine. i use an X1 and an F1, i believe if you use timecode it doesnt work. |
| Rosina Steinkuehler 12.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by MrPopinjay
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| Kiyoko Wellisch 12.10.2012 | Wait, the DB4 is certified now? |
| Mariano Godina 12.10.2012 | Smart mixer for sure, traktor certified is always a bonus now. Really good fx. Can;t see it being in 995 of dj booths though, it's more for bigger dj's to put on their riders. |
| Sha Books 12.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by kevz718
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| Kiyoko Wellisch 11.10.2012 | Yeah- I've always wished that people would keep the in built FX unit and the send and return separate. |
| Cliff Lohman 11.10.2012 | Well... That certainly answers the question! Good info.. I dont have a huge need for s/r but sometimes wish i had it.. Was just curious more than anything. I agree that between the loopers, fx, input matrix, eq/filt, filters that it can cover just about anything onboard.. I have been using the rmx1000 alot lately - at first i was frustrated with lack of s/r but wound up putting it onto dedicated db4 channel and using the input matrix which grew on me quickly.. I never liked the djm send returns because ud lose the fx unit in the process.. |
| Kiyoko Wellisch 11.10.2012 | Nice post. |
| Lynetta Stanislav 11.10.2012 | Would be good if we get a video of how all the different routes work and sound with the different FX |
| Branden Wentler 11.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by mix architekt
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| Brant Briski 11.10.2012 | there are some tragic consequences that are not being addressed if send/return and bpm tracking are implemented. there is no send and return on the DB4 because it has a wealth of effects for you to explore. this has been expanded considerably with new fx routing - allowing you to choose on a per channel basis pre/post fader, eq, and bypass relationships with those elements. it may not sound like much, but in application expands how the effects respond to what's being fed. for instance, you can take sweep delay, set the filter to full bandwidth, set it to the longest delay time and max regen, then with the fader down and eq set to filter mode, you can open up specific frequencies on different beat intervals using the fader and have the delay repeat them back at you like a simple phrase sampler. this means you can introduce or break down a track beat by beat; using the filter mode eq allows you to sweep a range and have that answer back. filter mode allows you to magnify specific frequencies, and as you move the knobs while feeding the delay, those tweaky sounds from max resonance echo back. call and response are yours to explore. but to be more specific to the implications of send and return - the latencies introduced put you into a world of hate. this is a digital mixer, so a send and return chain to the outside, analogue world means a minimum of 2 additional conversions - d/a on the send and a/d on the return. if you are using a digital processor - which most people will be - that will increase it by another 2 conversions. the result is that if any direct signal post effects is mixed back in with the original, the latency (aka time offsets) will result in very audible phase issues that are unpleasant to say the least (the tops get swirly and the bass goes south on big systems). depending on the type of effect being applied, even a purely wet signal can cause some destructive phase issues that you may not enjoy. relative to your original source (turntable or cd player connected via analogue inputs), there may be 5 or 6 conversions added, all which can introduce undesirable artifacts at every stage, plus the already mentioned latencies. (a quick aside - this problem exists with analogue mixers using digital effects on the aux bus as well. if your effects are not set to 100% wet, there will be phasing when mixed with the original source. even some analogue effects can create phase issues relative to how they're wired, though sometimes that is by design...) there are 2 ways to correct this. the first is to apply an input delay to all channels not using the send and return so they are aligned with the post processed latent signal. the problem here is making sure that the offset remains consistent with the processor being used, and then it would need to constantly change the delay offsets to any channel that was then selected to use send and return. the results of the delay change are clicks and pops. you can experiment with this scenario using ableton live's track offsets as an example. take your existing audio interface, create a send and return chain with an fx processor of choice, return the signal back into a track and then hear the results. track offsets in most daw's have the handy negative delay - which is simply an input delay applied to all other tracks than the one being moved into the negative domain. the other option as done by pioneer on the djm send and return - is to mute the original source when send and return is selected. but this radically limited the use of the send and return for anything but being fully on and processed. if you want to dub using the send, you're out of luck other than having the track off and feeding back in the processed mix. we offer insert sends of the ilive and gld for both input channels and output busses. but the same issues apply and in that scenario, we always have to question if all the trouble caused for inserting one processor is worth while. if you can't sound amazing using the tools you've been given with these products, you've got bigger issues to consider. no amount of external processing is going to make up for that. to continue the rain storm - if the latencies of send and return are a problem, generating midi clock off of an incoming source is setting up for an outright disaster. anyone who uses midi clock on a regular basis knows what a mess it is syncing multiple devices to a steady source. it only gets worse if that clock is changing in the slightest. again - two applications on the same computer (traktor/maschine) using virtual midi ports with a constant clock still has you chasing alignment over time. if you take that same constant clock and send it out to other machines - computers, synths, drum machines, etc. the conversion processes introduces it's own warble to the signal, and sync again becomes a problem. and we're talking a lot of clock conversion with DB4 since you'd be taking the input, monitoring the bpm, sending through usb into the computer, then back out over usb converted to midi with more warbles to the rest of the crew. if you've ever run a chain of devices with midi clock, the results are incredibly maddening - we had 5 computers all running off of traktor sync over a network with a bpm variance of 5 to 100 bpm! that's not just shoes in a clothe dryer, it's more like space time continuum manipulation in the hands of captain beefheart. even daw plus a midi drum machine and a single synth can maddening if not for alignment delays and the ability to re-edit. even fixed bpm generation from the DB4 and a single computer has it's issues with multiple applications running. ableton and traktor process clock differently. send them both the same source and you'll see them responding at different rates. please try out some of these scenarios with a single clock source and see where you find success and chaos. as such, that is why products like inner clock systems sync gen are on the market - it uses a special approach to find harmony between the devices and keep them running steady. david has a lot of great reading on his site to educate about the issues of clock sync. please read litmus test, questions, clock watch at a minimum... the whole site is incredibly informative. |
| Romelia Stankard 09.10.2012 | Pretty sure they just saw it as unnecessary as the mixer is built around 4 solid FX units. |
| Cliff Lohman 10.10.2012 | I always wondered why the db4 was built without a dedicated send return in the first place.. Was it because of the onboard fx? Or does that sort of thing add alot more cost? I never suspected that dedicated s/r was a teribly expensive thing to put in a mixer but i could be wrong.. |
| Elizabet Sledz 09.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
As for the Midi Clock on the DB4, Hold Cue for the channel you want running the clock + Tap the Tap button? In the LED Screen, you could have the Channel Number next to the FX Name, flashing to indicate which respective channel the clock is running? |
| Romelia Stankard 09.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by photojojo
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| Leeanna Ayla 09.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by JDFS
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
I briefly thought about making it The largest Xone DB4 thread on the internet |
| Tatum Ansaldo 09.10.2012 | I was slightly disappointed to learn that the midi clock generator is not related to the BPM detection engines. You can tell the mixer to produce a midi clock at 128.0 BPM but you can't generate a clock that tracks the BPM of an external source. If anyone can believe of a good way of implementing that (ie which button(s) would you press to select which channel is running the midi clock) I'd be interested to hear. Mix architekt, Andy and I also discussed how to implement a send return. It's still something that's in discussion, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible with the DB2. Of course, you'd have to assign it to an FX unit as opposed to having it per channel as it would be on the DB4. I must stress that none of this is fully confirmed as happening, they're all just ideas. We can all hope that the features in our wildest dreams get implemented, but don't expect it to be next week! |
| Romelia Stankard 07.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by JDFS
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| Basil Forshee 07.10.2012 | Question to the mods: can u change the title in Official XoneB4 topic or something? |
| Elizabet Sledz 07.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
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| Amira Gotcher 06.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
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| Tatum Ansaldo 06.10.2012 | Just spoke to Andy Rigby-Jones. There's no official release date for the firmware and they're still ironing out a couple of bugs, but they're aiming for 1st November. I asked about a send return and he told me they are planning to implement it using the record out and aux in for a future update, and one's planned for early next year. |
| Romelia Stankard 05.10.2012 | looks awesome. sweet. when will it be available? |
| Danae Dumler 05.10.2012 |
The Xone: DB2 V2.0 update adds the DB4 features: spatial crossover, Infrabass effect, master MIDI clock generator, and the master output pan control. Additionally, the new firmware offers users the unique ability to cascade the two FX units for even greater creativity. In cascade mode, the output of the X FX unit is routed through to the Y FX unit and any channel assigned to the X FX has dual processing.
Finally, the Xone:K2 V2.0 firmware and the DB4 V2.0 firmware have introduced an exciting new integration feature.
This is a great looking update; I'm looking forward to it (not available yet unfortunately). |
| Danae Dumler 05.10.2012 | Are you talking about the chrome paint chipping off on the "M"? That happened on mine too, and I've looked closely at 2 other DB4s, both pretty much brand new, that also had a bit of the chrome chipped off like that. It's not a problem it's just a tiny cosmetic thing, and mine is made in UK and it has the same issue. |
| Brant Briski 06.10.2012 | sorry, but that mixer is in perfect condition. it's the angle and some reflection in the video. if you look a bit further on at 0:33 you can see DMG is fine. i was just working with that mixer yesterday at the factory, which greg has been keeping spotless. |
| Kathyrn Sandbeck 05.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Rexx
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| Larae Knifong 05.10.2012 | You know what funny about this new video? At 0:24-27 the DMG button. LOL |
| Amira Gotcher 05.10.2012 | Absolutely massive update. |
| Lynetta Stanislav 05.10.2012 | Was looking for the send/return feature as well but the rest looks very interesting. |
| Tatum Ansaldo 05.10.2012 | Damnit, no send return. Cool new features though. |
| Kathyrn Sandbeck 05.10.2012 | FIRMWARE 2.0 IS HERE! :O http://xoneblog.allen-heath.com/?Cat...eSeries&SID=50
Xone: DB4 V2.0 firmware offers more creative flexibility with an advanced channel FX configuration, which allows the user to determine where the FX section, EQ section and FX ON switch are placed in the signal path – including much requested Post Fade FX.
In addition, each FX section can be configured in Classic, Send or Hybrid Mode, to create a subtly different sound for each effect type. The new firmware also introduces a powerful new effect to the DB4’s extensive FX library – Infrabass – a low frequency enhancer that generates infra bass energy from the sub-bass spectrum.
The Xone: DB2 V2.0 update adds the DB4 features: spatial crossover, Infrabass effect, master MIDI clock generator, and the master output pan control. Additionally, the new firmware offers users the unique ability to cascade the two FX units for even greater creativity. In cascade mode, the output of the X FX unit is routed through to the Y FX unit and any channel assigned to the X FX has dual processing.
Finally, the Xone:K2 V2.0 firmware and the DB4 V2.0 firmware have introduced an exciting new integration feature. When connected via X-Link, all four of the DB4 loopers can be remotely controlled on the K2, enabling the user to mix between a loop and the un-looped track using the K2 faders, instantly changing the loop length using the momentary buttons, or changing the main loop length. |
| Loreta Altema 25.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by mix architekt
Ahhh, the only reason I thought they were the same was because i thought i heard in a video "harmonic *lose me in the technical jargon*" when talking about the fundamental, so just assumed they were the same.. |
| Romelia Stankard 26.09.2012 | Right- I just meant I remember I wasn't sure if infrabass turned into fundamental but thought it sounded different and initially was hoping infrabass was on there. |
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