Xone: DB4- the official unofficial thread
Xone: DB4- the official unofficial thread Posted on: 18.10.2011 by Romelia Stankard (former thread title Xone: DB4- convince me not to sell off my possessions and drain my bank account)I mean it's just a mixer, nothing I should sell my S4 and some other expensive possessions for and drain my bank account completely for... right? I am having a hard time with this decision. I know it won't make me a better DJ, yet it gives me the urge to make irrational spending decisions. Please talk me out of it. | |
| Danae Dumler 02.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by mix architekt
Like I said I may be doing something stupid; I really haven't messed with timecode or even traktor that much since the DB4 is so much fun with regular vinyl. Normally I have it hooked up without the Audio 8 so that I have turntables in B+C on the mixer and then the input matrix set so that inner channels are Traktor A+B and outer channels are the vinyls if the Analog signal is set or Traktor C+D if USB is set. This makes it easy to mix with Traktor and scratch on a turntable without losing a main deck for example (something you can't normally do with timecode unless you have a third deck), or just to mix between vinyl and traktor. And switching to Traktor for decks C+D when you want them is a breeze though of course you have to remember to adjust the gain when you switch between ANA and USB. I went back to that setup after frustratingly trying to play through the Audio 8 for a few weeks. This all comes back to why this mixer needs to be certified In the meantime, timecode seems too much trouble. Which is unfortunate. |
| Brant Briski 02.02.2012 | i'm sorry, but all that's written above is totally off from what was actually happening at the dubfire gig at timewarp mannhiem last year. i was at the sound check providing a new db4 for the show with the rest of the xone crew, and at that point in time he was using the db4 as a direct replacement for a 92 minus one channel. 4 decks of traktor into the db4 via ni audio interface. stereo out of maschine into the db4 line/mic in for the 2nd laptop. midi cable for sync between the 2 laptops. 2 cdj's as back up in case the laptops fail. he was not using the db4's usb audio interface. that's it. if you want timecode and a db4, you can use the native interface and all is well. |
| Lise Montis 02.02.2012 | From my Native Instruments Traktor Pro community posting in DJ controllers topic concerning the Xone DB4 and the discussion that may have solved the timecode issue through a very complex way: "If you look at his set-up he's got two NI soundcards (one for Abelton/Maschine going out of the NI soundcard on the left into the Aux Line input pair. The one on the right is actually further Abelton/Maschine full channel break-outs but what about the one on the left. I'm thoroughly confused." Ignore my confusion on the innerclocks thing...on another note, I had a longer 'believe' about the Dubfire set-up last evening and realized that if I'm right, you can use the two extra soundcards to sync the two laptops, run 10 channels of Abelton/Maschine as analog audio + get four decks of control over the DB4 analog/DB4 USB....plus you might even get timecode since you are using NI soundcards anyway. OK, please read carefully and figure this out with me. If you look at Dubfire's set-up and roughly figure it out, he (or his roadcrew/set-up experts) may have made a model we could use to solve a few problems with synching two programs and the audio routing required to have the DB4 successfully use it's input matrix wizardry to come up with a complex but very comprehensive set-up.... OK, you'd need two additional soundcards and a total of two laptops: one for Abelton/Maschine ("Performance") and one for Traktor Pro ("DJ"). On the "Performance" laptop running Abelton and Maschine (on the left), -Use a 10 output channel soundcard and only send the Master "1/2 out" pair directly into the DB4's Aux Line-in pair. -On channels 3-10, send out all of the audio pairs to another soundcard on another computer's soundcard capable of running all 8 channels in "through" mode (like a Traktor 10 DJ because it has four "through" pairs). You'll need to slave the "Performance" laptop by conventional midi cable connection at the midi-in port receiving midi from the other soundcard on the other "DJ" computer, adjust clock ticks, etc. to get it in time. On the "DJ" computer (on the right), run Traktor Pro and use the DB4's USB Audio soundcard for routing Traktor's deck audio which are still matrix selectable by the channels' "USB" source inputs. - Attach another soundcard (Traktor 10 DJ best candidate - because it has four throughs which will receive the four pairs of analogue audio coming from of "Performance" laptop's audio soundcard outs) - Connect the four "through" analogue audio out pairs into the DB4's four channel input pairs. (You can switch to them by selecting "ANA" on channel input sources) - Connect this Traktor 10 DJ's Midi out to the "Performance" laptop soundcard's midi-in by conventional midi cable. - Adjust ticks between systems to keep it sync'd in time. - Within Traktor, set-up a generic Midi device for the Traktor 10 DJ connected this "DJ" computer, which should show up as a selectable Midi device recognized in Traktor. (? - You shouldn't have to "gain" the 2nd Traktor 10 DJ, it should show up as a midi device, right ?) Not sure if you'd have to also set-up a basic JackOS type audio routing or another internal sync'd program like an instance of Abelton running parallel on the "DJ" computer but to get the "DJ" laptop's connected Traktor 10 DJ t to run the audio "through" should be reasonably accomplished by the configuration tool (if it comes with one like the Audio 8DJ did - running outside of Traktor). The midi send should reasonably be accomplished within Traktor preferences because aggregated soundcards isn't currently an option for Traktor. Notes: If this works, I'd use the Aux-in for the Cue channel of Abelton on DB4 and use the four mix channels on the DB4 as Maschine group break-out routing. I don't have the Traktor 10 DJ yet so don't know if you can configure "through" with the basic tool outside of Traktor plus I'm not sure if Traktor would pick-up the 2nd soundcard connected by USB on the "DJ" system as a midi device and allow you to send the sync throught it without complication (should work) If it does work, you should be good to go by doing this and essentially sync two laptops, run ten channels of analogue audio + 4 decks of controlled audio, ultimately all mixed through the DB4 and two additional soundcards. It all seemed crazy to see his set-up at first but I believe that if this works, I now know to go about connecting my set-up in a similar workflow. It's more stable to work on two laptops and I wasn't keen on the idea of having another two soundcards at first (just getting over the extra one added for Abelton/Maschine) but I believe I might be onto something else as well.... -------timecode?--------- Concerning the unused inputs on the "Performance" laptop's soundcard, you might get away with either setting up a standalone (unsync'd) instance of Traktor on this computer or you might be able to do something crazy and achieve timecode control by connecting your turntables/CDJ analog outs to the "performance" laptop's soundcard inputs and send the signal on through the analog pipeline to second soundcard on the "DJ" laptop. I'm not absolutely sure about this because you may still have the software preventing such since the DB4 would be the soundcard but an NI soundcard would be attached to that laptop and you might trick the software? If that doesn't work because you'd need the Line switchover you could try to figure out how to further route the audio internally through Abelton, and get control. **Not sure if you'd be able to e pick-up/switch over yet but pick-up of the signal as analog hitting the Traktor should allow control and shoot the audio out over the DB4's mix channels. I may be onto something here but the trolls may come out and address the obvious which is the fact that you could partition the "Performance" laptop's card (in terms of audio) and share the channels between Abelton and another instance of Traktor running on that laptop (meaning two laptops with Traktor) You might even figure out a way to flip the sync portion on at a certain point and play with it very precisely. If my analysis of the original subject Dubfire set-up has solved the laptop sync/audio routing/control issues by going about things this way while also leading the DB4 Users interested in having timecode towards achieving the capability. (it would be expensive if you start at the beginning but I'm only in need of a Traktor 10DJ card to test it with my existing Xone DB4/Xone 2D/two 1Ds and two Technics SL-1210 MK5Gs). |
| Romelia Stankard 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by Rors
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| Scarlett Saupp 01.02.2012 | what filesystem is the usb formatted in? and what filesystems can the db4 read? |
| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by Rors
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| Suzanne Horniak 01.02.2012 | Hi can anyone help please; Just tried to update to mix architekt |
| Amira Gotcher 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by JDFS
Anyway, it's a great update and I'm very happy with it. |
| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 | Can somebody tell me what the default menu settings for usb routing is? Im kinds confused by this option and i noticed things sound crappy when selected so i believe i changed something by accident.. |
| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 | I feel like some of these companies keep their official marketing to a minimum to maintain some kind of underground/boutique/whatever u want to call it feel to their products. Could be my warped perception but a+h sits somewhere in the middle of the mainstream and underground marketing strategy from what i see.. Giving away units to clubs is not going to cost nearly as much as other marketing tactics.. In fact, thats probably the cheap route.. Pioneer gets alot of celeb dj endorsements which i assume is one of the more expensive parts. Lets face it, the celeb dj calls the shot with the mixer they want for their dj slot so whether pio and ah both gave them 10k of their latest gear over the past year, it comes around to the celeb dj and what they request. And the fact that its a bit more of a standard layout mixer means its simply going to be more useful to more people in general. And its great for that. Those who want additional crazy filtering and efx options are the ones who are going to look at ah type mixers. And theres just less ppl in that latter group. |
| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by Eizhauz
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| Romelia Stankard 01.02.2012 | I would be interested to know how many ilive mixers a&h actually sells a year. I'm sure A&H makes plenty of money from DJ mixers and other gear. |
| Dorie Scelzo 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by JDFS
They're competing with one of the biggest marketing and promotion teams in the world. Their iLive mixers are competing with the likes of Midas, Soundcraft, Yamaha, Mackie, Avid, and a few others. That's not a small task, but it's easier than tackling Pioneer. Also, you speak English infinitely better than I speak Dutch. |
| Basil Forshee 01.02.2012 | Well, thanks mate! It's very good to hear that. I'm following the Cambridge ESOL Examinations at my school to get a degree in English. Still my knowledge of the English language is very basic, but I intend to broaden my horizon . Back on-topic, it's just shameful that we must figure out there's new firmware for the DB4 via MixArchitekt. I'm glad we're having him on this community - and he's always helpful! I'm 99% sure that the Xone:K2 is releasing quietly and reviews will follow end 2012. Unfortunately . |
| Juliette Vensel 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by JDFS
I would say also, you have a very good 'grasp' of the language, mate! |
| Basil Forshee 01.02.2012 | Well, I find everyone here friendly and willing to help, but I get you now! Maybe it is because I'm a foreigner that I didn't understand what thought-provoking means . But the fact that you agree with me says enough about A&H. I'm sure many more here in this topic are believeing the same way! Ohh, I wish I could give some tips to their marketing division. At YouTube they're constantly uploading new videos about their new iLive system, but the market for Xone mixers is also big. It's like Traktor (Pioneer) vs. Serato (A&H) regarding their marketing, I believe. I barely see any new videos of Serato, whereas Traktor is constantly giving us DJ's a boner with videos from DJ Craze, Rafik etc. |
| Juliette Vensel 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by JDFS
Even more strange is the ghost-town known as the Xone community . |
| Juliette Vensel 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by JDFS
Trust me, I am a noob on these boards. I haven't earned the right yet to be sarcastic. |
| Basil Forshee 01.02.2012 | Oh, is thought-provoking a pun? Because I thought you thought I was (wow, Inception) provoking. Or does thought-provoking means that the questions are worth asking? |
| Basil Forshee 01.02.2012 | Sorry if it sounds provoking. I was speaking directly to A&H and clearing my mind, hehe... It's what 'you' call "Just my 2 pennies/cents" ? Well, I visited a DJ shop a few weeks ago, and that guy didn't even hear about the DB2 and the K2 - but ofcourse he knew about the new limited Pioneer DJM and CDJ's in white! The only thing he came up with was, "Ohh, then it must be a stripped DB4, right?" Come on, you're the shop owner, you should know! You see my point? Yes, renowned DJ related websites like DJ TechTools, Skratchworx, MusicRadar, Digital DJ Tips. But I don't believe A&H is sending them their hardware for review - that's just lacking... And there's no shop (in The Netherlands, at least) where I can just test them out physically, while the guy from A&H in the video says they're shipping now. Irritating!!! I mean, the Xone mixers are just like the iLive mixers their cash cows, right? Why not take advantage of that and just bring a proper marketing campaign or something like that. When more people will hear of it, more people will buy it, more chance to become Traktor Scratch Certified (just like Andy Rigby-Jones says in one of the early DB4 videos: "Traktor Scratch Certification coming soon"). Their Xone Forum is also starved out just like Tyrannosaurus Rex... |
| Juliette Vensel 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by JDFS
You could try to call either of the shops I linked to earlier and ask. Then again, so could I. Perhaps I will. Regarding reviews, I trust you mean someone like DJTT or Digital DJ Tips or Scratchworx or Kosmic Sound (I like these Aussies) doing a proper review with the hardware in hand? |
| Basil Forshee 01.02.2012 | I just don't get A&H's marketing division. It just irritates me how I can't figure out, by visiting sites from DJ shops, if they ship or don't ship at this moment. A&H doesn't come with press releases which says "It is shipping now!", no, we must figure it out via a video from YouTube (!). How can this company be so lacking regarding their products? No concrete shipping dates and no reviews either, which should been there to praise their products. A&H should take an example to Pioneer regarding their commercial actions and marketing division. I always know that when a Pioneer product is announced, it is shipping at a date which is given and reviews are online soon - to know why I should or shouldn't pick it. If the DB2 is shipping at this time, why can't I find any reviews? And there's only ONE video online of it, no demo video with a performance, only one video where they're all talking... Not to talk about the K2. I mean, nobody knows when that one is shipping. Hell, I believe it will be in the shops in August 2012 . It is that I'm in love with the DB4... If someone owns this DB2, comment in this topic and please, please post a review because I don't see any other website doing it until 2013 (if we're still alive ). |
| Juliette Vensel 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
I emailed Juno.com a week ago... zero response so far. From the A&E video's from NAMM 2012 two weeks ago, the rep was saying after every clip "...and shipping now!..." Nothing on either site suggests it is not shipping, as opposed to the K2 which has been delayed until April (???). |
| Romelia Stankard 02.02.2012 | DB2 is shipping now? |
| Juliette Vensel 02.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by kevz718
$1580 + shipping overseas $1799 Stateside |
| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 | Bitmasher 2 is the shit.. I missed the noise generator on my djm but this really blow that out ofthe water.. Dont even need a track playing to push the fx out of it. Sounds really nice. |
| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by Eizhauz
No, theres no way to chain efx units on db4 outside of the workaround u mentioned with channel matrix.. This might change someday but how theyll implement it - i dunno.. I imagine something with the new send fx mode.. Itll be tough decision til u see the street price of db2 (unless its out now and if so, what is the real price? Db4 can be found in us for 2100) |
| Juliette Vensel 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
DB4 has effects per channel. Aside from doubling a track onto another channel, can you assign more than one effect per channel on the DB4? I know the DB2 has a X/Y/Split toggle for FX. I very much appreciate everyone's knowledge in this thread and the DB2 thread as well. It is helping me narrow down my decisions vs budget vs workflow... I am nowhere near a decision now! LOL. |
| Romelia Stankard 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by Eizhauz
You also get a lot more midi shift on the DB4 than the DB2. |
| Juliette Vensel 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by kevz718
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| Romelia Stankard 31.01.2012 |
Originally Posted by freaK^
Originally Posted by DJ Bob
So for cueing is that what auto cue means?
Originally Posted by kevz718
I also want to regular FX mode back since I like being able to toggle killsend mode as normal. |
| Billye Jankovic 31.01.2012 | Im guessing its not possible to use the D/W knob as rotary and for FX on the same channel? |
| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJ Bob
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| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJ Bob
Right..the djm is where i saw autocue.. I didnt like it much but glad to hear that aome folks will get good use out of it... So ur saying its useful for when u wanna bring in another 2+ channels into mix? I remember at time i didnt really get it and didnt know y anybody would want to use it but maybe ill give it another try |
| Cliff Lohman 01.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by Marc Pole
The biggest thing imo that the db4 has going on is the per channel filter. The biggest thing db2 has (i believe) is thst u can use the fx accross different channels if u want (as opposed to db4 where ud have to recreate same fx parameters per channel if u wanted to do that). And of course, standard post fader fx. I do like the roll style looper per channel on db4 but i also miss a traditional layered roll type fx which i believe db2 will have. They r both sick mixers.. Just believe about how ud like to ideally use fx per channel and how ud use the roll looper and whether the filter per channel is something u must have. |
| Basil Forshee 31.01.2012 |
I don't want a DB2 anymore, just because I can't do without the filters, they are just too amazing on the DB4. Sure, you can set the EQ to Filter mode, but having two different VCF-filters on both sides of the mixer in combination with the standard EQ/isolator is just amazing for clean and nice mixing. It's a difference in price like |
| Alverta Papapietro 31.01.2012 | Sorry for my bad English I can not decide between the DB2 and DB4. DB2 two effect units are sufficient. (for me) I can loop with tractor. Filter can also used if Dry / Wett stands to 0. - The EQ mode can only be set globally via the menu. What reason is there to buy the DB4? I use only tractor, no CDJ or a turntable. |
| Amira Gotcher 31.01.2012 | thanks for this mix architekt! the new cue mode is great. it allows you to use the channel cues in the same way as the pioneer djm mixers work - if you press the cue, the channel stays 'latched' on until you press it again and it turns off. no more having to press 2 or 3 channel cues at exactly the same time to monitor them! also, cdj 'hot' input fixed! - the trim now sits around 12 o'clock as it should, instead of on the lowest setting. the rotary option is just amazing. i still can't believe you managed to do that! not had chance to play with the fx yet but what a great update. the best mixer just got a LOT better and i get the impression that there is a lot more to come this year. |
| Cliff Lohman 30.01.2012 |
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Also, i dont believe cdj issue will be solved. Unfort cant test cuz i just sold cdj yesterday but i tried menu trim and it doesnt impact meters. And my meters are running at about their regular levels so id say its fixed in regular linear mode. Didnt check on rotary mode nor did i notice the level thing u mentioned,, thats cool. They t lest did something with the master level tho where u can either see it with or without cue kevel which i love. |
| Cliff Lohman 30.01.2012 | Some off the cuff initial feedback: - overall, quite a bit packed in this beta..well done - i wouldnt mind retaining the ability to toggle individual channels fx between the kill, send and classic modes. I like sometimes having kill reverb with a classic echo, etc so i liked the way u could do that in the current public firmware. As opposed to the beta where its all channels being one of the 3 choices. - i like the sound of send mode but im trying to grasp what i can really do with it.. Its basically feeding the efx back to the front of fx chain so it keeps growing along with the dry signal? - couldnt figure out autocue yet.. Or was that already there before? Lol. I remember playing on a mixer that would auto turn on cues but i forget which mixer and what triggered the cue on action. Im imagining this is same idea.. Wasnt huge on the idea. - rotary seems cool if that ur thing - only had brief play with it so didnt get far into new fx but bitbasher 2 i am def liking, - still no solution for the meters correlating to the menu trim options to help the hot cdj issue with the meters? Thnx again |
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