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Xone: DB4- the official unofficial thread

Home :: General Discussion :: Xone: DB4- the official unofficial threadReply

Xone: DB4- the official unofficial thread Posted on: 18.10.2011 by Romelia Stankard (former thread title Xone: DB4- convince me not to sell off my possessions and drain my bank account) I mean it's just a mixer, nothing I should sell my S4 and some other expensive possessions for and drain my bank account completely for... right? I am having a hard time with this decision. I know it won't make me a better DJ, yet it gives me the urge to make irrational spending decisions. Please talk me out of it.
Tatum Ansaldo 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay Sweet, nicely done I was quite proud
Kiyoko Wellisch 29.02.2012	Sweet, nicely done
Romelia Stankard 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay Yeah I said all that if you read my posts You know what the DB4 needs? Two completely separate headphone outputs. I could see it being such a mixer for DJ duos. Do any mixers have two cueing sections so DJs can happily beat match and cue separately? You mean two separate cue buttons on each channel for independent cue sections?
Tatum Ansaldo 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by Hoodless FEP, where did you get yours from and how much did you haggle them down to? Mine was from Digital Village but I was lucky, it was technically b-stock but basically someone had bought one which was DOA, sent it back and it was returned to A&H. A&H replaced it with a totally new unit but the customer didn't want it any more so DV had a new one in old packaging that had to be sold as b-stock, hence the
Dione Haimes 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay Yeah I said all that if you read my posts You know what the DB4 needs? Two completely separate headphone outputs. I could see it being such a mixer for DJ duos. Do any mixers have two cueing sections so DJs can happily beat match and cue separately? Ive seen a few, cant name them off the top of my head though, though most of them have been vestax i believe
Jonathan Lokey 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by JDFS Richie Hawtin goes even further, and I believe he truly can be called an Pioneer of Music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTbwpiwQYcw He uses the Traktor FX and Ableton FX on the AUX 2 of the Xone:92, where the AUX 1 is reserved for the Maschine. By routing the FX external, there's more headroom and it all sounds more natural to me, because by doing this, you can make the FX post-fader (because the FX goes straight to the master, and therefore you can just slam the faders down with a tail!) and second, within Traktor use of FX will make the incoming sound louder and can cause clipping within Traktor. With Hawtin's method, the FX comes in on the Xone:92 and as you might know, this mixer has more headroom than Traktor. So you can avoid clipping! I just watched this through and noticed that he has a xone:k2 as well. You can see him using is around 6:38. It must be a prototype as this was last year.
Kiyoko Wellisch 29.02.2012	Yeah I said all that if you read my posts You know what the DB4 needs? Two completely separate headphone outputs. I could see it being such a mixer for DJ duos. Do any mixers have two cueing sections so DJs can happily beat match and cue separately?
Romelia Stankard 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay Like I said before, not everyone uses an audio 10 or SL4. And dude, designed for multicore? It's a piece of wire. There is nothing special about the soundcard. I understand I just mean the soundcard doesn't ship with multicores and has thru through the soundcard unlike the A4/A8 where multicores shipped with it and were part of its intended use down to the multicolored inputs/outputs and there was no software thru outside of traktor. I mentioned the SL4 or and A10 because they are the only sound cards for serato or traktor than can run 4 timecode vinyl decks like you're talking about would be a problem with the DB4 if someone wanted to use splitters. And if you're talking about using software other than serato or traktor with timecode like mixxx, xwax, or ableton/ms. pinky then you would just use the DB4 soundcard and inputs to run timecode and it wouldn't be an issue.
Kiyoko Wellisch 29.02.2012	Like I said before, not everyone uses an audio 10 or SL4. And dude, designed for multicore? It's a piece of wire. There is nothing special about the soundcard.
Romelia Stankard 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay others want to be able to play vinyl on every channel. Well if you want to do that with timecode then you need an Audio 10 or SL4 anyway and they have thru through the soundcard and are not designed for multicores/split output so I don't see the problem.
Kiyoko Wellisch 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by JDFS Euhh, they're using Ableton with Maschine as a plugin. As you can see they've Faderfox controllers apart (which are hooked up to AUX 2) As you can see, both AUX channels are up. I was talking about the two lads using traktor. And kevz718, you gotta bare in mind that different people have different requirements. You may be happy just having one table play through a gimpy channel but others want to be able to play vinyl on every channel.
Cliff Lohman 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by Xonetacular People just don't like how it takes up all the analog inputs on the back if you want to use an SL1 with thrus or an audio 8 with multicores, and I'm still trying to understand what DB4 owner would be using an SL1 or why anyone would want to use multicores with an audio 8. If I'm going to use timecode I'm just going to use timecode and if I was really desperate to play a record I would use thru in traktor before dealing with the clusterfuck that are multicores. Oh.. Ya.. If i wanted that, id probly just setup 3 timecode connects and 1 phono input to play an occasional record. But im with u.. If im using timecode, thats all that i would use. Are there no solutions out there that change rca phono jacks to digital inputs? Further, couldnt you use that aux jack on top either as one of ur timecode inputs or the tt input if u really needed to play a record? Or does it not have the necessary gain for phono / timecode input?
Basil Forshee 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay You know I don't see why they ain't using ableton for that. Seems like a much more obvious choice for what they are trying to do. Euhh, they're using Ableton with Maschine as a plugin. As you can see they've Faderfox controllers apart (which are hooked up to AUX 2) As you can see, both AUX channels are up.
Romelia Stankard 29.02.2012	People just don't like how it takes up all the analog inputs on the back if you want to use an SL1 with thrus or an audio 8 with multicores, and I'm still trying to understand what DB4 owner would be using an SL1. As far as multicores go If I'm going to use timecode I'm just going to use timecode and if I was really desperate to play a record I would use thru in traktor before dealing with the mess that are multicores.
Cliff Lohman 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay I'm struggling to work out why you believe it would cause any more confusion than any other mixer by adopting a completely standard input setup. Im struggling to figure out how many more inputs folks believe it needs.. Theoretically, u could have something like 4 tts, 4 cdjs, 1 maschine and 4 usb inputs.. What am i missing? Is it the lack of send/returns on it? If somebody needs more inputs than this than quite franctly this probly isnt an ideal piece of gear nor would most dj mixers id imagine..
Dione Haimes 29.02.2012	I was torn between getting a Rane62 which is famous for its tank-likeness, plus it now has filters, or the DB4, this thread alone has sold the DB4 to me, now jsut to get payments set up EDIT: FEP, where did you get yours from and how much did you haggle them down to?
Kiyoko Wellisch 29.02.2012	You know I don't see why they ain't using ableton for that. Seems like a much more obvious choice for what they are trying to do.
Basil Forshee 29.02.2012	Richie Hawtin goes even further, and I believe he truly can be called an Pioneer of Music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTbwpiwQYcw He uses the Traktor FX and Ableton FX on the AUX 2 of the Xone:92, where the AUX 1 is reserved for the Maschine. By routing the FX external, there's more headroom and it all sounds more natural to me, because by doing this, you can make the FX post-fader (because the FX goes straight to the master, and therefore you can just slam the faders down with a tail!) and second, within Traktor use of FX will make the incoming sound louder and can cause clipping within Traktor. With Hawtin's method, the FX comes in on the Xone:92 and as you might know, this mixer has more headroom than Traktor. So you can avoid clipping!
Basil Forshee 29.02.2012	Note at the Dubfire/Richie Hawtin/Chris Liebing/Speedy J (LOL, why do only the great Techno artists use this) setup: You'll need an external soundcard for MIDI sync it all together. Watch this video as how a perfect sync comes to live : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHPLFPMintM
Kiyoko Wellisch 29.02.2012	I'm struggling to work out why you believe it would cause any more confusion than any other mixer by adopting a completely standard input setup.
Danae Dumler 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by Xonetacular Simplicity with the input matrix. I understand the denons are similar and have a phono switch but realize that no one is using the input matrix on the denons how people use the input matrix on the db4. There's no reason to be going wild with the input matrix on the denon mixers during a set. With the loopers and DB4 FX people often switch and double sources to multiple channels then bring it back- I believe adding the phono toggle and making the tiny matrix switch go 4 ways or adding another 4 selector switches would add some serious confusion. I'm not sure why this wasn't possible on the Denon; the effects are just more limited. I love this mixer too but let's face it, this was short sighted of A+H. Simple can be good but input options on a mixer have come to be expected, especially with the two major DVS systems requiring them in their older soundcards. I have the Audio 8 and DVS is a pain in the ass. Every solution is a workaround. I use multicores and have C+D (1+4) taken up by the thru signal. The levels are off, and the timecode signal is always going through channels 1+4 so you better not accidentally tap the fader of a deck you're not using while you have timecode going. Or you keep the input switched to one of the already playing decks until you're ready to use vinyl - either way it's a pain. I believe A+H just assumed there'd be no problem with certification and built it expecting to be certified. And they probably just didnt believe anyone with Serato would bother buying this mixer.
Romelia Stankard 28.02.2012
Romelia Stankard 28.02.2012	The 5th Aux/Mic channel (the RCAs are on the top of the mixer, I'm sure you will believe this is strange). I know dubfire runs Maschine on a second laptop through that, same as people have been running Maschine/MPCs/drum machines through the Aux channels on 92s for years.
Dorie Scelzo 28.02.2012	Wait, where are you talking about plugging in Maschine, then? The db4 only has 4 analog input pairs
Romelia Stankard 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay Yes, that's what I was believeing. I know it's not a huge problem, most people won't be doing that at all, but it is a bit of a pain. The main reason why I'm kicking up a bit of a fuss is that I don't see why that decision was made, they broke from the norm and I can't believe of a suitable explanation. Simplicity with the input matrix. I understand the denons are similar and have a phono switch but realize that no one is using the input matrix on the denons how people use the input matrix on the db4. There's no reason to be going wild with the input matrix on the denon mixers during a set. With the loopers and DB4 FX people often switch and double sources to multiple channels then bring it back- I believe adding the phono toggle and making the tiny matrix switch go 4 ways or adding another 4 selector switches would add some serious confusion.
Kiyoko Wellisch 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by Xonetacular ...you need an Audio 10 and that has thru mode and isn't designed to use splitters/multi cores anyway. It's just a cable. It works with any interface. IMO the advantage of a multicore cable is that you can wire your soundcard up happily in the booth and then just click it in happily, no fussing about trying to see behind the mixer. If only every bar and club used the mixer sections! :P
Kiyoko Wellisch 28.02.2012	Yes, that's what I was believeing. I know it's not a huge problem, most people won't be doing that at all, but it is a bit of a pain. The main reason why I'm kicking up a bit of a fuss is that I don't see why that decision was made, they broke from the norm and I can't believe of a suitable explanation. Ah well, it doesn't matter at all. Traktor and Serato (I believe) have direct through and all the others can use the inbuilt sound card! And it's not like I'm ever going to get to use this beast anyway.
Romelia Stankard 28.02.2012	I believe he means the issue you are seeing is you can't set up 3 timecode decks with multicores and there isn't a realistic situation where that would even come up. The SL3 is not set up to utilize separate thru RCAs and even the Audio 8 can't do 3 timecode vinyl decks and if you wanted to run 3 you need an Audio 10 and that has thru mode and isn't designed to use splitters/multi cores anyway. So really for that situation to ever come into play you would have to be some ultra small minority that uses 3+ turntables with splitter cables with an SL3/4 or Audio 10 and I've never heard of anyone doing that.
Tatum Ansaldo 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay Not sure what you mean by without timecode though, the fact you want timecode is the issue here. What I mean is that if you want 4 DVS decks there's no problem, it's only when you want to use those same decks for real vinyl/CDs without using thru mode (which I know mostapha loathes) that you might have a problem because you don't have the extra phono input socket for a multicore cable.
Kiyoko Wellisch 28.02.2012	Yeah it's not ideal but it's better than the current situation. And yes, people do. It's actually the setup I want but I don't have the space or funds for a larger mixer and another turntable at the moment. Not sure what you mean by without timecode though, the fact you want timecode is the issue here.
Tatum Ansaldo 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay What are you on about? It doesn't require another switch, it's right there to the left of the HF EQ. Well you couldn't hook up any more than 2 decks of timecode with through cables, that's a little annoying. Though with current gen traktor and rane cards you can do it through the card itself and straight into the line level input so it doesn't matter that much, right? Users of other cards and software are limited though... Certainly not ideal for those of us who prefer splitters, NI multicore style. That switch is so tiny I wouldn't want it to have another position. Maybe that's just me. And does anyone actually use 3+ vinyl/CD DVS decks and at the same time use them all without timecode?
Romelia Stankard 28.02.2012	Sasha talks DB4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7M4DCoap5M
Kiyoko Wellisch 28.02.2012	What are you on about? It doesn't require another switch, it's right there to the left of the HF EQ. Well you couldn't hook up any more than 2 decks of timecode with through cables, that's a little annoying. Though with current gen traktor and rane cards you can do it through the card itself and straight into the line level input so it doesn't matter that much, right? Users of other cards and software are limited though... Certainly not ideal for those of us who prefer splitters, NI multicore style.
Romelia Stankard 28.02.2012	Don't forget a stereo pair into the 5th channel from maschine off a second laptop (a la dubfire and richie hawtin, even though hawtin is still on a 92).
Tatum Ansaldo 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay What? No you wouldn't. That's how the denon x1600 and x1700 work and they have the same style selection controls as the DB4 and look at the faceplate of the DB4, where exactly would you put another switch per channel? Anyway, I don't see what the problem is. Can someone give me a real world DJing situation where the DB4's inputs would be a problem? I know unplugging things is annoying, but if I had a DJM-900 and I wanted to switch 2 channels over I'd have to unplug them. On the DB4 I can just use the matrix knob. You could have 4 USB inputs from traktor, 4 CDJ-2000s and 4 turntables plugged in at the same time (using the RIAA preamps). Who is this DJ who needs more than this?
Kiyoko Wellisch 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by Xonetacular Good point, it's all about the Matrix input which would not work right if there were individual phono/line inputs. You would need an added switch on each channel to toggle between the two which would just confuse things. When things get crazy with the matrix routing it can be confusing enough and to have to worry about another switch would not be worth it. What? No you wouldn't. That's how the denon x1600 and x1700 work and they have the same style selection controls as the DB4 http://www.pashop.com/site/images/pr...s/DN-X1600.jpg http://www.rubadub.co.uk/media/catal.../dnx1600_2.jpg
Tatum Ansaldo 28.02.2012	I got mine brand new for less than that
Palma Hanslip 28.02.2012	^^ For that starting price you could probably get a dealer down to that if you were a regular customer.. Edit: Just noticed it comes with the flightcase, pretty good deal lol.
Judi Sissel 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by JDFS Euhhhh, I believe you don't get the point of the USB soundcard... I don't care about Traktor Scratch, as long as I can use 4 USB channels on the DB2/4 with Traktor, which in this case, I can. Together with two 1D's/X1's/K2's they're are a powerful weapon. If only you knew the possibilities... Actually you are 100% right... I guess I didn't get it. For some reason I was believeing that if a mixer is not certified by NI, traktor you will not see it as an output device? Just did some research Wow I am an idiot ... I guess thats what happens when you choose not to read certain things. HAHA... questions answered and money saved... sweet. Don't know where I got into believeing I would need another soundcard (I just use X1's)
Kandy Ahdoot 28.02.2012	there is a db4 on ebay uk http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALLEN-HEAT...item3a712f6e8e

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Xone: DB4- the official unofficial thread