New NI controller! Pic from FB, more info tomorrow! |
Concetta Delorie
24.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Saurus
It's not going to cost the $2000 that the T1 cost when it came out, but you NI fanboys believeing it's going to cost less than $1000 are in la-la land.
I actually agree with something you've said |
Nancey Inderlied
24.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
Hmm why did Apple move away from googles mapping solution and why have they begun to move away from Samsung as a supplier?
1) Look how that's turned out so far
2) They haven't... |
Johnsie Kingrea
24.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Saurus
You just.... Kinda don't know about stuff huh?
Hmm why did Apple move away from googles mapping solution and why have they begun to move away from Samsung as a supplier? |
Lang Abriel
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
Or like Samsung making the displays in all Apple products. But they'd never do that, now would they?
Hahaha...was believeing the same thing.
Edit: I believe everyone is just hating on this idea. If you get deep into all the aspects it makes perfect sense. Pioneer did not design and rename this mixer for NI to sell. The business world does not work like that haha.
Pioneer made the djm t1 and NI certified it. They worked with pioneer because they did not have the resources to do it themselves at the time, and i am sure pioneer had to pay a hefty fee to have TSP certification.
As far as the midi working on everything example....if you are insistent on shooting down the f1 comparison. why did ppl buy the x1? because it was cost justifiable and perfectly mimiced traktor software. This will work the same way, new effects were in the video and im sure they will be exclusive to the hardware.
I am not an NI hardware fanboy. I will probably buy a rane ttm56 after i see this is a let down for ME. But NI has been profitable and its because of their business model which they are not going to change with this product. |
Eloy Kiepke
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I don't believe you really get how competition works. How would Pioneer benefit from helping NI develop a mixer/product that is directly competing with one of their products. I doubt Pioneer was even aware of this. For those of you who believe that this thing will be anymore then the DJM T1 ($1000) you're crazy. When the DJM T1 launched at $1600 people laughed at it when compared to the S4 which have you 4 deck control and timecode capabilities for way less. This thing is guaranteed to be under a $1000. Otherwise people would just buy the T1
You just.... Kinda don't know about stuff huh? |
Nancey Inderlied
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
Having Traktor as an option for the 900 is just an additional feature. There's a lot of people who would use the 900 and not use Traktor, pioneer wins either way. Pioneer would not benefit at all in helping NI developing this mixer unless it had their name on it and they got a cut of profit. This mixer is in direct competition with the T1. That's like Apple helping Samsung make a touchscreen phone that looks exactly like the iPhone...
Or like Samsung making the displays in all Apple products. But they'd never do that, now would they? |
Johnsie Kingrea
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by oliosky
Pioneer would benefit in the same way that they do with making the 900 nexus tsp certified and advanced HID with the CDJ line. Its a collaboration that is mutually beneficial.
If it is less than a grand, it wont be much under. You'd be hard pressed to make quality scratch mixer with an A6 (minimum) and X1 incorporated for less than a thousand bucks.
Having Traktor as an option for the 900 is just an additional feature. There's a lot of people who would use the 900 and not use Traktor, pioneer wins either way. Pioneer would not benefit at all in helping NI developing this mixer unless it had their name on it and they got a cut of profit. This mixer is in direct competition with the T1. That's like Apple helping Samsung make a touchscreen phone that looks exactly like the iPhone... |
Johnetta Olewine
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I don't believe you really get how competition works. How would Pioneer benefit from helping NI develop a mixer/product that is directly competing with one of their products. I doubt Pioneer was even aware of this. For those of you who believe that this thing will be anymore then the DJM T1 ($1000) you're crazy. When the DJM T1 launched at $1600 people laughed at it when compared to the S4 which have you 4 deck control and timecode capabilities for way less. This thing is guaranteed to be under a $1000. Otherwise people would just buy the T1
Pioneer would benefit in the same way that they do with making the 900 nexus tsp certified and advanced HID with the CDJ line. Its a collaboration that is mutually beneficial.
If it is less than a grand, it wont be much under. You'd be hard pressed to make quality scratch mixer with an A6 (minimum) and X1 incorporated for less than a thousand bucks. |
Johnsie Kingrea
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Saurus
Wat. Look at a picture of both of them at the same time. They're the same mixer....
The amount that Pio and NI have been working exclusively together in the last year.... you don't believe it was mentioned that NI was rebuilding their design...? NI has never made a standalone mixer, or any controller with the build quality of a standalone mixer... You don't believe Pio helped them out?
I don't believe you really get how competition works. How would Pioneer benefit from helping NI develop a mixer/product that is directly competing with one of their products. I doubt Pioneer was even aware of this. For those of you who believe that this thing will be anymore then the DJM T1 ($1000) you're crazy. When the DJM T1 launched at $1600 people laughed at it when compared to the S4 which have you 4 deck control and timecode capabilities for way less. This thing is guaranteed to be under a $1000. Otherwise people would just buy the T1 |
Nancey Inderlied
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Rukks
Well we are leaving out price point...I agree if it comes in at $1600 then it won't be a game changer.
As far as the comparison goes. I understand they look similar as you've pointed out in two posts. But the F1 and APC20 'look' similar, however with the software integration they are completely different products.
I don't understand how software integration isn't an integral part when the hardware is meant to be used in conjunction with a particular software.
Because in this case, integration doesnt matter at all. Its not mapping out a complex system of precise controls like the S4/2, it isnt controlling and monitoring a performance option like the F1, the included controls seem to be "hot cue 1-4" and "FX controls," things every single MIDI controller has been perfectly fine at since the dawn of the knob box. NI is going to have to pull a serious gimmick, and include a layering evening
mare, if they want to cram some USPs in this thing. |
Concetta Delorie
24.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Saurus
It's not going to cost the $2000 that the T1 cost when it came out, but you NI fanboys believeing it's going to cost less than $1000 are in la-la land.
I actually agree with something you've said |
Erich Vallabhaneni
24.09.2012 | I believe it's interesting and we won't know more about it till more info is released so all is speculation. Not to mention that the Iphone 5 is a let down |
Johnsie Kingrea
24.09.2012 | My point is Pioneer wouldn't just help NI create a directly competing product without a) their name on it or b) earning some kind of profit by supplying parts (I don't believe they do this anyways). This is how business works.
Samsung obviously had a lot to gain from supplying components to Apple because the iPhone sold like hot cakes. Back when Maps was Google based Apple pointed out that Google provided the service. |
Johnsie Kingrea
24.09.2012 | 1) work in progress
2) sharp provides displays for the 5 (maybe not all displays, but they're a major supplier) and there are numerous components that are no longer from Samsung in the 5 |
Nancey Inderlied
24.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
Hmm why did Apple move away from googles mapping solution and why have they begun to move away from Samsung as a supplier?
1) Look how that's turned out so far
2) They haven't... |
Johnsie Kingrea
24.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Saurus
You just.... Kinda don't know about stuff huh?
Hmm why did Apple move away from googles mapping solution and why have they begun to move away from Samsung as a supplier? |
Lang Abriel
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
Or like Samsung making the displays in all Apple products. But they'd never do that, now would they?
Hahaha...was believeing the same thing.
Edit: I believe everyone is just hating on this idea. If you get deep into all the aspects it makes perfect sense. Pioneer did not design and rename this mixer for NI to sell. The business world does not work like that haha.
Pioneer made the djm t1 and NI certified it. They worked with pioneer because they did not have the resources to do it themselves at the time, and i am sure pioneer had to pay a hefty fee to have TSP certification.
As far as the midi working on everything example....if you are insistent on shooting down the f1 comparison. why did ppl buy the x1? because it was cost justifiable and perfectly mimiced traktor software. This will work the same way, new effects were in the video and im sure they will be exclusive to the hardware.
I am not an NI hardware fanboy. I will probably buy a rane ttm56 after i see this is a let down for ME. But NI has been profitable and its because of their business model which they are not going to change with this product. |
Eloy Kiepke
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I don't believe you really get how competition works. How would Pioneer benefit from helping NI develop a mixer/product that is directly competing with one of their products. I doubt Pioneer was even aware of this. For those of you who believe that this thing will be anymore then the DJM T1 ($1000) you're crazy. When the DJM T1 launched at $1600 people laughed at it when compared to the S4 which have you 4 deck control and timecode capabilities for way less. This thing is guaranteed to be under a $1000. Otherwise people would just buy the T1
You just.... Kinda don't know about stuff huh? |
Nancey Inderlied
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
Having Traktor as an option for the 900 is just an additional feature. There's a lot of people who would use the 900 and not use Traktor, pioneer wins either way. Pioneer would not benefit at all in helping NI developing this mixer unless it had their name on it and they got a cut of profit. This mixer is in direct competition with the T1. That's like Apple helping Samsung make a touchscreen phone that looks exactly like the iPhone...
Or like Samsung making the displays in all Apple products. But they'd never do that, now would they? |
Johnsie Kingrea
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by oliosky
Pioneer would benefit in the same way that they do with making the 900 nexus tsp certified and advanced HID with the CDJ line. Its a collaboration that is mutually beneficial.
If it is less than a grand, it wont be much under. You'd be hard pressed to make quality scratch mixer with an A6 (minimum) and X1 incorporated for less than a thousand bucks.
Having Traktor as an option for the 900 is just an additional feature. There's a lot of people who would use the 900 and not use Traktor, pioneer wins either way. Pioneer would not benefit at all in helping NI developing this mixer unless it had their name on it and they got a cut of profit. This mixer is in direct competition with the T1. That's like Apple helping Samsung make a touchscreen phone that looks exactly like the iPhone... |
Johnetta Olewine
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I don't believe you really get how competition works. How would Pioneer benefit from helping NI develop a mixer/product that is directly competing with one of their products. I doubt Pioneer was even aware of this. For those of you who believe that this thing will be anymore then the DJM T1 ($1000) you're crazy. When the DJM T1 launched at $1600 people laughed at it when compared to the S4 which have you 4 deck control and timecode capabilities for way less. This thing is guaranteed to be under a $1000. Otherwise people would just buy the T1
Pioneer would benefit in the same way that they do with making the 900 nexus tsp certified and advanced HID with the CDJ line. Its a collaboration that is mutually beneficial.
If it is less than a grand, it wont be much under. You'd be hard pressed to make quality scratch mixer with an A6 (minimum) and X1 incorporated for less than a thousand bucks. |
Johnsie Kingrea
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Saurus
Wat. Look at a picture of both of them at the same time. They're the same mixer....
The amount that Pio and NI have been working exclusively together in the last year.... you don't believe it was mentioned that NI was rebuilding their design...? NI has never made a standalone mixer, or any controller with the build quality of a standalone mixer... You don't believe Pio helped them out?
I don't believe you really get how competition works. How would Pioneer benefit from helping NI develop a mixer/product that is directly competing with one of their products. I doubt Pioneer was even aware of this. For those of you who believe that this thing will be anymore then the DJM T1 ($1000) you're crazy. When the DJM T1 launched at $1600 people laughed at it when compared to the S4 which have you 4 deck control and timecode capabilities for way less. This thing is guaranteed to be under a $1000. Otherwise people would just buy the T1 |
Johnetta Olewine
23.09.2012 | I really believe you guys are looking way too much into it. The Z2 looks to be just a NI Traktor based copy of the Rane 62. Nothing more, nothing less, just a basis for a 2 channel setup. If it has ANY build quality issues and isn't priced right (i.e. significantly less than the Rane) it'll be a white elephant.
Its a bit of a wierd product really, no house and techno guys (which are NI's user base predominantly) are gonna use it because its 2 channel and set up to be a scratch based device. And Rane/Serato really does completely dominate that internal soundcard/mixer niche. |
Nancey Inderlied
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Rukks
Well we are leaving out price point...I agree if it comes in at $1600 then it won't be a game changer.
As far as the comparison goes. I understand they look similar as you've pointed out in two posts. But the F1 and APC20 'look' similar, however with the software integration they are completely different products.
I don't understand how software integration isn't an integral part when the hardware is meant to be used in conjunction with a particular software.
Because in this case, integration doesnt matter at all. Its not mapping out a complex system of precise controls like the S4/2, it isnt controlling and monitoring a performance option like the F1, the included controls seem to be "hot cue 1-4" and "FX controls," things every single MIDI controller has been perfectly fine at since the dawn of the knob box. NI is going to have to pull a serious gimmick, and include a layering evening
mare, if they want to cram some USPs in this thing. |
Eloy Kiepke
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Rukks
I'm almost positive that all of the external features and look/feel of the unit were never touched or known about by pioneer. NI may have consulted to get the same suppliers of pioneers analog components. Not sure why you would believe this was a collab with pioneer...
Oh well i suppose it has 2 channel faders, a x fader and 3 band eq with filters....pioneer has been the only company ever to produce a mixer with those features so im sure thats where NI got the idea.
Wat. Look at a picture of both of them at the same time. They're the same mixer....
The amount that Pio and NI have been working exclusively together in the last year.... you don't believe it was mentioned that NI was rebuilding their design...? NI has never made a standalone mixer, or any controller with the build quality of a standalone mixer... You don't believe Pio helped them out? |
Lang Abriel
23.09.2012 | Well we are leaving out price point...I agree if it comes in at $1600 then it won't be a game changer.
As far as the comparison goes. I understand they look similar as you've pointed out in two posts. But the F1 and APC20 'look' similar, however with the software integration they are completely different products.
I don't understand how software integration isn't an integral part when the hardware is meant to be used in conjunction with a particular software. |
Nancey Inderlied
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Rukks
It is not the same thing at all....
If you want to make a fair comparison then do it with the pioneer djtt and the s4. The s4 was way cheaper at launch and had better integration, hence why it sold way more than pio.
If NI makes the hardware then they have the ability to change the software, which they will do. That makes HID with the new mixer more appealing (Last i checked the F1 is still selling) .I'm not saying their business model is right but it is way different than pioneer's approach to traktor.
NI makes it integrated and pioneer makes it applicable in terms of traktor.
I dont know what youre talking about. The Z2 is a hardware mixer with some software controls lining the edges, the T1 is a hardware mixer with.... some software controls lining the edges. You can rail off about software integration for days, but it doesnt actually mean anything in terms of the actual products. Having HID integration on a few hot cues and effects controls isnt exactly a market dominator. |
Lang Abriel
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
Its got electronic components, so clearly it must have no character
This mixer is the exact same concept as the T1, and will most likely have the exact same drawback: costing too damn much for an essentially useless discrete mixing bus.
It is not the same thing at all....
If you want to make a fair comparison then do it with the pioneer djtt and the s4. The s4 was way cheaper at launch and had better integration, hence why it sold way more than pio.
If NI makes the hardware then they have the ability to change the software, which they will do. That makes HID with the new mixer more appealing (Last i checked the F1 is still selling) .I'm not saying their business model is right but it is way different than pioneer's approach to traktor.
NI makes it integrated and pioneer makes it applicable in terms of traktor. |
Nancey Inderlied
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Rukks
I'm almost positive that all of the external features and look/feel of the unit were never touched or known about by pioneer. NI may have consulted to get the same suppliers of pioneers analog components. Not sure why you would believe this was a collab with pioneer...
Oh well i suppose it has 2 channel faders, a x fader and 3 band eq with filters....pioneer has been the only company ever to produce a mixer with those features so im sure thats where NI got the idea.
Its got electronic components, so clearly it must have no character
This mixer is the exact same concept as the T1, and will most likely have the exact same drawback: costing too damn much for an essentially useless discrete mixing bus. |
Lang Abriel
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Saurus
Yeah... It's very clearly just a rebuild of the same mixer. The T1 failed horribly, despite maybe being a worthwhile idea, so NI, who has been working with Pio TONS lately, clearly has redesigned it with Pio's help, and they're hoping slapping their logo and a few exclusive features on it will make it sell better than it did when it was made by pio.
It's not going to cost the $2000 that the T1 cost when it came out, but you NI fanboys believeing it's going to cost less than $1000 are in la-la land.
I'm almost positive that all of the external features and look/feel of the unit were never touched or known about by pioneer. NI may have consulted to get the same suppliers of pioneers analog components. Not sure why you would believe this was a collab with pioneer...
Oh well i suppose it has 2 channel faders, a x fader and 3 band eq with filters....pioneer has been the only company ever to produce a mixer with those features so im sure thats where NI got the idea. |
Eloy Kiepke
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
Well the DJM-T1 is about as popular as a fart in an elevator, so I doubt they're too worried.
Yeah... It's very clearly just a rebuild of the same mixer. The T1 failed horribly, despite maybe being a worthwhile idea, so NI, who has been working with Pio TONS lately, clearly has redesigned it with Pio's help, and they're hoping slapping their logo and a few exclusive features on it will make it sell better than it did when it was made by pio.
It's not going to cost the $2000 that the T1 cost when it came out, but you NI fanboys believeing it's going to cost less than $1000 are in la-la land. |
Dierdre Stillabower
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
Well the DJM-T1 is about as popular as a fart in an elevator, so I doubt they're too worried.
Because the price point's too high. If it were 6-700 people'd be all over it. I have a hard time believing NI's going to charge more for very similar gear. |
Isa Erik
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
Well the DJM-T1 is about as popular as a fart in an elevator, so I doubt they're too worried.
nearly choked |
Tatum Ansaldo
23.09.2012 | Well the DJM-T1 is about as popular as a fart in an elevator, so I doubt they're too worried. |
Nereida Jasnoch
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by oliosky
This. I have my doubts it gonna be less than 1k though.
Well surely they 'd want to avoid competition from the pioneer DJM-T1 right ?
So I 'd bet it's a bit cheaper. |
Johnetta Olewine
23.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Hoodless
If its cheaper than a 62, has FULL standalone ability with phono's, and looks good in the flesh, i may just switch back to traktor..
This. I have my doubts it gonna be less than 1k though. |
Dione Haimes
23.09.2012 | If its cheaper than a 62, has FULL standalone ability with phono's, and looks good in the flesh, i may just switch back to traktor.. |
Concetta Delorie
22.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
Are you clairvoyant?
No. Just well informed. |
Desire Piedmont
22.09.2012 | That's the new Maschine launch date, isn't it? Don't know about any other NI news on that day though. |
Tatum Ansaldo
22.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by nestaselect
They will on Oct 1st.
Are you clairvoyant? |
