The "club standard" CDJ. Lack of respect for controllerists. Why? I recently talked to a really skilled / established DJ and producer. I asked him what gear
he uses, and he said CDJs. When I told him I used a controller, he laughed then apologized, saying the standard was CDJs or Technics in the clubs/gigs he played at, and that barely anyone ever uses a controller, because no one takes them seriously. He agreed that controllers were good for an introduction to DJing though.
Why do CDJs command more respect? Is it because of the lack of sync? (which isnt the case anymore because new CDJs have it, rekordbox, etc..)
Are established DJs expected to "pay their way" by buying full CDJ/DJM setups before they're given respect / gigs, even if they can produce the same quality sound with a controller?
Do controllers give off some sort of "toy" aura? To me, some of them do, but they are only intended for an introduction anyway. A controller like a Kontrol S4 seems to me like professional gear
. I've heard mixes produced on S4s that sound better than guys with CDJ/DJM/Technics/pimp-ass setups.
In the end, I believe respect should be given to people who make good sounding music. But I feel like there is this "pay your way" mentality from established DJs who don't want guys with controllers to show them up if their music is better.
But I don't have the experience to know for sure. Why aren't controllerists given the same respect as a CDJ/technics user? |
Alphonso Deitchman
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by MRG12EG
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Jeffrey Akinsanya
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Tbh the main draw is the size; in smaller booths it's a PITA to set up a laptop... with a Surface and a half decent stand you can mount it at the back of the mixer, basically like a super awesome CDJ's LCD screen showing you detailed waveforms etc. I fully intend to get one myself eventually to replace my MBP, just waiting for them to come down in price a bit.
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Tamela Batara
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
I came VERY close to convincing a friend of mine to get the RMP-3s (for MIDI control) and a Surface Pro, and go over to using Traktor, instead of a pair of 2000Nexuses toevening
... a few more days and I reckon I'll have him convinced.
If you do manage to convince him, he is obviously a complete idiot. That whole routine could easily be done on his pair of nexus' and a Reloop contour. So would only cost him an extra |
Alphonso Deitchman
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by MRG12EG
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Jeffrey Akinsanya
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Tbh the main draw is the size; in smaller booths it's a PITA to set up a laptop... with a Surface and a half decent stand you can mount it at the back of the mixer, basically like a super awesome CDJ's LCD screen showing you detailed waveforms etc. I fully intend to get one myself eventually to replace my MBP, just waiting for them to come down in price a bit.
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Tamela Batara
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
I came VERY close to convincing a friend of mine to get the RMP-3s (for MIDI control) and a Surface Pro, and go over to using Traktor, instead of a pair of 2000Nexuses toevening
... a few more days and I reckon I'll have him convinced.
If you do manage to convince him, he is obviously a complete idiot. That whole routine could easily be done on his pair of nexus' and a Reloop contour. So would only cost him an extra |
Alphonso Deitchman
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by MRG12EG
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Jeffrey Akinsanya
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Tbh the main draw is the size; in smaller booths it's a PITA to set up a laptop... with a Surface and a half decent stand you can mount it at the back of the mixer, basically like a super awesome CDJ's LCD screen showing you detailed waveforms etc. I fully intend to get one myself eventually to replace my MBP, just waiting for them to come down in price a bit.
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Tamela Batara
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
I came VERY close to convincing a friend of mine to get the RMP-3s (for MIDI control) and a Surface Pro, and go over to using Traktor, instead of a pair of 2000Nexuses toevening
... a few more days and I reckon I'll have him convinced.
If you do manage to convince him, he is obviously a complete idiot. That whole routine could easily be done on his pair of nexus' and a Reloop contour. So would only cost him an extra |
Alphonso Deitchman
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by MRG12EG
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Jeffrey Akinsanya
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Tbh the main draw is the size; in smaller booths it's a PITA to set up a laptop... with a Surface and a half decent stand you can mount it at the back of the mixer, basically like a super awesome CDJ's LCD screen showing you detailed waveforms etc. I fully intend to get one myself eventually to replace my MBP, just waiting for them to come down in price a bit.
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Tamela Batara
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
I came VERY close to convincing a friend of mine to get the RMP-3s (for MIDI control) and a Surface Pro, and go over to using Traktor, instead of a pair of 2000Nexuses toevening
... a few more days and I reckon I'll have him convinced.
If you do manage to convince him, he is obviously a complete idiot. That whole routine could easily be done on his pair of nexus' and a Reloop contour. So would only cost him an extra |
Qiana Castellucci
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Meh, fuck 'em lol.
The fact is, this whole anti-controller attitude really grinds my gears, especially since I see club DJs using them on a daily basis; and not just modular stuff like the X1 but all-in-ones like the S2, S4 and VCIs. Hell, I myself have a variety of Reloop gear I use for EVERY gig. I also know plenty of people who wouldn't use CDJs if Pioneer gave 'em a cheque for doing so.
These days, DJing is not just playing one track after another anymore like it used to be, and it's quite simply impossible to do the same amount of stuff on CDJs as it is on controllers. It's like the difference between using a typewriter and a computer... sure, you might be able to write a letter on a typewriter, but that's it. Regardless of their price and the amount of shiny that Pioneer puts on them, they're limited by their very nature.
LMAO - do you REALLY believe anyone takes anything you type with any seriousness anymore? You've proved yourself to be a moron of the highest order by your advocating of products, then admitting you've never used them. Your proclamations about Clubs and their technology use (CDJ vs Controller), then admitting that not only do you never DJ outside of your town (and possibly one club/bar/youthclub), but you never even GO to clubs outside of your town.
Frankly, after all that, anyone that takes anything you say with other than a massive pinch of salt is as much of a joke as you are.
You, sir, are a cretin. |
Kristofer Krauel
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
These days, DJing is not just playing one track after another anymore like it used to be, and it's quite simply impossible to do the same amount of stuff on CDJs as it is on controllers.
Sorry mate but this is just something people say to convince themselves that what they do is more advanced than "normal" DJ's. In the past 12 months I have seen (and these are the ones I can remember): Andy Moor, John O'Callaghan, Armin, Arty, Jaytech, Above & Beyond, Carl Cox, Miguel Migs, Clive Henry, Noir and Mark Kevening
. All smashed it. All fundamentally used simple A to B mixing as their technique. All used CDJ's and a mixer as the main elements in their set up and all are doing pretty well for themselves. Open your eyes. The world is bigger than this little community
. |
Doreen Schurle
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
A decent stand like the Crane Stand Pro can put your laptop at the back of the mixer just the same. And the 10.6 inch screen of the Surface is going to be pretty small for Traktor with its side-by-side waveforms.
Capacity is also awful on all the Surfaces. Less than 90GB on the top model.
Higher resolution than the 13" MBP though @ 1920x1080; and it depends on how big the booth is... the hinge angle is quite limited on the MBP, which means you either end up with the screen MUCH further away from you, or the laptop quite literally hangs OVER the mixer which can be a evening
mare in poor lighting.
The ATIV Pro might be a better option, but it's more expensive There's also the Acer W700 i5 for only |
Doreen Schurle
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
Not interested in what the Reloop posterboy does on Youtube, I was asking what kind of routines your people do..
Noone here is suggesting that anyone buy CDJs to haul into a bar every evening
. You can have all the advantages of controllerism using small modular controllers combined with a traditional booth setup, but this of course only applies to venues decent enough to provide gear.
Surface Pro seems like a very niche product as you can get a nice ultrabook for the same price with bigger screen, more ports, better battery life.
Tbh the main draw is the size; in smaller booths it's a PITA to set up a laptop... with a Surface and a half decent stand you can mount it at the back of the mixer, basically like a super awesome CDJ's LCD screen showing you detailed waveforms etc. I fully intend to get one myself eventually to replace my MBP, just waiting for them to come down in price a bit. |
Doreen Schurle
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
What kind of routines do you and the people you know perform that go above and beyond the capabilities of a CDJ setup?
Adding in a small modular controller or two to the CDJs will give you room for any creativity you like..
I came VERY close to convincing a friend of mine to get the RMP-3s (for MIDI control) and a Surface Pro, and go over to using Traktor, instead of a pair of 2000Nexuses toevening
... a few more days and I reckon I'll have him convinced. |
Alphonso Deitchman
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Meh, fuck 'em lol.
The fact is, this whole anti-controller attitude really grinds my gears, especially since I see club DJs using them on a daily basis; and not just modular stuff like the X1 but all-in-ones like the S2, S4 and VCIs. Hell, I myself have a variety of Reloop gear I use for EVERY gig. I also know plenty of people who wouldn't use CDJs if Pioneer gave 'em a cheque for doing so.
Your case is a little different based on you've described - I wouldn't really call those places you photographed clubs, more like hybrid bars which you've said so yourself. No decent gear is provided at your gigs so of course controllers are the only way to go. And I'm sure the DJs around where you live would appreciate it if the "clubs" upgraded to some nicer gear.
I bet most of them haven't even used the newer CDJs before and wouldn't mind giving them a shot, and they are your dream "plug in and play controller" setup even if you don't want to admit it. I sure as hell wouldn't bring the huge S4 around to any gig if they had a couple HID CDJs I could add an X1 to and have everything from the S4 and more on decent hardware instead.
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
These days, DJing is not just playing one track after another anymore like it used to be, and it's quite simply impossible to do the same amount of stuff on CDJs as it is on controllers. It's like the difference between using a typewriter and a computer... sure, you might be able to write a letter on a typewriter, but that's it. Regardless of their price and the amount of shiny that Pioneer puts on them, they're limited by their very nature.
What kind of routines do you and the people you know perform that go above and beyond the capabilities of a CDJ setup?
Adding in a small modular controller or two to the CDJs will give you room for any creativity you like.. |
Delfina Suedmeyer
20.03.2013 | http://stoneyroads.com/francois-k-on...ust-ignore-it/
French DJ has his input on the matter. if you have the time to complain and back up your choice/preference on dj gear
, then you have time to read this article which makes a good argument and hopefully ends the dispute between the two. i simply respect both side of the coin. there are advantages/disadvantages but as djs, it shouldnt come down to what gear
you have. it matters what comes out of it. |
Alphonso Deitchman
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by MRG12EG
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Jeffrey Akinsanya
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Tbh the main draw is the size; in smaller booths it's a PITA to set up a laptop... with a Surface and a half decent stand you can mount it at the back of the mixer, basically like a super awesome CDJ's LCD screen showing you detailed waveforms etc. I fully intend to get one myself eventually to replace my MBP, just waiting for them to come down in price a bit.
i just checked the prices of the surface pro seem to be |
Jefferson Grigor
16.03.2013 | Whatever you decide to use it should be your choice there is no right or wrong.Both cdj's and controllers have there advantages and disadvantages, but would certainly agree that some usernames appear across nearly every subject posted on here and they always have a negative viewpoint no matter what the question or problem I respect everyone has there own ideas but constantly being a twat to people will certainly gain you the MORON status you deserve. I have both controllers and cdj's and enjoy using both so feel that I have the right to comment as I have actually used them . |
Tamela Batara
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
I came VERY close to convincing a friend of mine to get the RMP-3s (for MIDI control) and a Surface Pro, and go over to using Traktor, instead of a pair of 2000Nexuses toevening
... a few more days and I reckon I'll have him convinced.
If you do manage to convince him, he is obviously a complete idiot. That whole routine could easily be done on his pair of nexus' and a Reloop contour. So would only cost him an extra |
Qiana Castellucci
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Meh, fuck 'em lol.
The fact is, this whole anti-controller attitude really grinds my gears, especially since I see club DJs using them on a daily basis; and not just modular stuff like the X1 but all-in-ones like the S2, S4 and VCIs. Hell, I myself have a variety of Reloop gear I use for EVERY gig. I also know plenty of people who wouldn't use CDJs if Pioneer gave 'em a cheque for doing so.
These days, DJing is not just playing one track after another anymore like it used to be, and it's quite simply impossible to do the same amount of stuff on CDJs as it is on controllers. It's like the difference between using a typewriter and a computer... sure, you might be able to write a letter on a typewriter, but that's it. Regardless of their price and the amount of shiny that Pioneer puts on them, they're limited by their very nature.
LMAO - do you REALLY believe anyone takes anything you type with any seriousness anymore? You've proved yourself to be a moron of the highest order by your advocating of products, then admitting you've never used them. Your proclamations about Clubs and their technology use (CDJ vs Controller), then admitting that not only do you never DJ outside of your town (and possibly one club/bar/youthclub), but you never even GO to clubs outside of your town.
Frankly, after all that, anyone that takes anything you say with other than a massive pinch of salt is as much of a joke as you are.
You, sir, are a cretin. |
Latoria Kavulich
16.03.2013 | When their whole world is in ashes, CDJ's have my permission to die. |
Kristofer Krauel
16.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
These days, DJing is not just playing one track after another anymore like it used to be, and it's quite simply impossible to do the same amount of stuff on CDJs as it is on controllers.
Sorry mate but this is just something people say to convince themselves that what they do is more advanced than "normal" DJ's. In the past 12 months I have seen (and these are the ones I can remember): Andy Moor, John O'Callaghan, Armin, Arty, Jaytech, Above & Beyond, Carl Cox, Miguel Migs, Clive Henry, Noir and Mark Kevening
. All smashed it. All fundamentally used simple A to B mixing as their technique. All used CDJ's and a mixer as the main elements in their set up and all are doing pretty well for themselves. Open your eyes. The world is bigger than this little community
. |
Alphonso Deitchman
15.03.2013 | High resolution on a tiny screen is worse, not better. Here's what 1080p Traktor would look like on a Surface (scale to 10.6 inches on your screen).
Screens over the middle of the mixer isn't a great idea anyway as you'll be staring into it instead of focusing on the crowd and the music you hear. |
Doreen Schurle
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
A decent stand like the Crane Stand Pro can put your laptop at the back of the mixer just the same. And the 10.6 inch screen of the Surface is going to be pretty small for Traktor with its side-by-side waveforms.
Capacity is also awful on all the Surfaces. Less than 90GB on the top model.
Higher resolution than the 13" MBP though @ 1920x1080; and it depends on how big the booth is... the hinge angle is quite limited on the MBP, which means you either end up with the screen MUCH further away from you, or the laptop quite literally hangs OVER the mixer which can be a evening
mare in poor lighting.
The ATIV Pro might be a better option, but it's more expensive There's also the Acer W700 i5 for only |
Alphonso Deitchman
15.03.2013 | A decent stand like the Crane Stand Pro can put your laptop at the back of the mixer just the same. And the 10.6 inch screen of the Surface is going to be pretty small for Traktor with its side-by-side waveforms.
Capacity is also awful on all the Surfaces. Less than 90GB on the top model. |
Doreen Schurle
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
Not interested in what the Reloop posterboy does on Youtube, I was asking what kind of routines your people do..
Noone here is suggesting that anyone buy CDJs to haul into a bar every evening
. You can have all the advantages of controllerism using small modular controllers combined with a traditional booth setup, but this of course only applies to venues decent enough to provide gear.
Surface Pro seems like a very niche product as you can get a nice ultrabook for the same price with bigger screen, more ports, better battery life.
Tbh the main draw is the size; in smaller booths it's a PITA to set up a laptop... with a Surface and a half decent stand you can mount it at the back of the mixer, basically like a super awesome CDJ's LCD screen showing you detailed waveforms etc. I fully intend to get one myself eventually to replace my MBP, just waiting for them to come down in price a bit. |
Alphonso Deitchman
15.03.2013 | Not interested in what the Reloop posterboy does on Youtube, I was asking what kind of routines your people do..
Noone here is suggesting that anyone buy CDJs to haul into a bar every evening
. You can have all the advantages of controllerism using small modular controllers combined with a traditional booth setup, but this of course only applies to venues decent enough to provide gear.
Surface Pro seems like a very niche product as you can get a nice ultrabook for the same price with bigger screen, more ports, better battery life. |
Doreen Schurle
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
What kind of routines do you and the people you know perform that go above and beyond the capabilities of a CDJ setup?
Adding in a small modular controller or two to the CDJs will give you room for any creativity you like..
I came VERY close to convincing a friend of mine to get the RMP-3s (for MIDI control) and a Surface Pro, and go over to using Traktor, instead of a pair of 2000Nexuses toevening
... a few more days and I reckon I'll have him convinced. |
Alphonso Deitchman
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Meh, fuck 'em lol.
The fact is, this whole anti-controller attitude really grinds my gears, especially since I see club DJs using them on a daily basis; and not just modular stuff like the X1 but all-in-ones like the S2, S4 and VCIs. Hell, I myself have a variety of Reloop gear I use for EVERY gig. I also know plenty of people who wouldn't use CDJs if Pioneer gave 'em a cheque for doing so.
Your case is a little different based on you've described - I wouldn't really call those places you photographed clubs, more like hybrid bars which you've said so yourself. No decent gear is provided at your gigs so of course controllers are the only way to go. And I'm sure the DJs around where you live would appreciate it if the "clubs" upgraded to some nicer gear.
I bet most of them haven't even used the newer CDJs before and wouldn't mind giving them a shot, and they are your dream "plug in and play controller" setup even if you don't want to admit it. I sure as hell wouldn't bring the huge S4 around to any gig if they had a couple HID CDJs I could add an X1 to and have everything from the S4 and more on decent hardware instead.
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
These days, DJing is not just playing one track after another anymore like it used to be, and it's quite simply impossible to do the same amount of stuff on CDJs as it is on controllers. It's like the difference between using a typewriter and a computer... sure, you might be able to write a letter on a typewriter, but that's it. Regardless of their price and the amount of shiny that Pioneer puts on them, they're limited by their very nature.
What kind of routines do you and the people you know perform that go above and beyond the capabilities of a CDJ setup?
Adding in a small modular controller or two to the CDJs will give you room for any creativity you like.. |
Ming Devis
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
I don't see the logic in getting them unless you enjoy playing on them though
I was talking about people buying them for home use because they are 'industry standard'. My point is buy whatever is in your budget and what you will enjoy playing on the most (if thats cdj's then get some). You can learn CDJ's in 10 minutes if you know how to beat match and can save your self some cash as well. |
Doreen Schurle
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by MRG12EG
wow mdcdesign! alot of this thread is due to you.. you rubbed alot of people up the wrong way earlier in the thread and i cant believe your still going lol
Meh, fuck 'em lol.
The fact is, this whole anti-controller attitude really grinds my gears, especially since I see club DJs using them on a daily basis; and not just modular stuff like the X1 but all-in-ones like the S2, S4 and VCIs. Hell, I myself have a variety of Reloop gear I use for EVERY gig. I also know plenty of people who wouldn't use CDJs if Pioneer gave 'em a cheque for doing so.
These days, DJing is not just playing one track after another anymore like it used to be, and it's quite simply impossible to do the same amount of stuff on CDJs as it is on controllers. It's like the difference between using a typewriter and a computer... sure, you might be able to write a letter on a typewriter, but that's it. Regardless of their price and the amount of shiny that Pioneer puts on them, they're limited by their very nature. |
Ervin Calvery
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by Shane Says
I don't believe your point still stands. Controllerism and laptops have opened the door to a lot more people. Yes I have also seen awful DJ's on CDJ's but they are less frequent than shitty controllerists. Play correctly, enjoy your hard work in knowing you can DJ correctly, and fck expression. I hate that term.
Am I right in assuming that you're using 'controllerist' and 'controllerism' to refer generally/inclusively to people who use and people using controllers? |
Salvatore Husley
15.03.2013 | First: When did I say I didn't enjoy myself?
Second: I take pride in what I can do well. Especially when I have put in years studying, learning, working hard to reach that point.
Third: Take your sarcastic tone and shove it up your ass. |
Lauretta Ehrhorn
15.03.2013 | Aw Shane it sounds like you lack joy in your work from your comments. No having a go, just picking up the tone. I vowed the day the joy went and it became purely a paid profession then I'd hang up my headphones and have gone into semi retirement this year for that reason.
A bit off topic too sorry. |
Salvatore Husley
15.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by D-Kem
Yep there will be plenty of shitty DJs on controllers and I've been playing long enough to hear plenty of shitty DJs on turntables/CDJs too.
My point still remains. Play, enjoy, express. Without this why bother at all?
I don't believe your point still stands. Controllerism and laptops have opened the door to a lot more people. Yes I have also seen awful DJ's on CDJ's but they are less frequent than shitty controllerists. Play correctly, enjoy your hard work in knowing you can DJ correctly, and fck expression. I hate that term. |
Lauretta Ehrhorn
15.03.2013 | Yep there will be plenty of shitty DJs on controllers and I've been playing long enough to hear plenty of shitty DJs on turntables/CDJs too.
My point still remains. Play, enjoy, express. Without this why bother at all? |
