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Pioneer xdj-r1??

Home :: General Discussion :: Pioneer xdj-r1??Reply

Pioneer xdj-r1?? Posted on: 07.05.2013 by Dannie Dimora I never heard of this "controller" up until someone in a thread here mentioned it and uploaded some photos. In case you haven't seen them, here they are: 2.JPG 3.JPG 4.JPG So it seems pioneer has gone the all-in-one route that numark and gemini have taken quite some time ago, But i'm just wondering. Is there a niche market for pioneer that's big enough to justify such a product? I understand it's rekordbox compatible and everything, but at probably the price of 2 cdj400 and a little mixer, will this market be big enough for pioneer to make a profit? Also, do you guys believe that since this thing is probably based off cdj400s, it will support HID in traktor?
Lizabeth Peight 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by Reticuli Fair enough. Most of Pioneer's gear has been 10bit. Some of their newer gear that has 14bit faders has tended not to fully take advantage of it in transport mode. A fader that is shorter than 100mm cannot resolve 14bit resolution effectively. To assume the R1 is either a 10bit undersized fader or WAY undersized 14bit one is a very educated guess. If it only has one USB memory port and cannot preload an entire track, then all this is moot and it’s a bum device, period... an overpriced controller. But suit yourself. I personally would also take the opinion of someone who actually bought one with a grain of salt, considering the issues. Not going to get into a flamewar here But I also disagree with this idea that one USB is not enough. You do not need more than 10,000 tracks on one device, just redo your USB each time you want to include different tunes in your 10,000. Also, the buffer issue doesnt matter. Just take one single (or a couple) CD full of WAV files, and every time you want to change a USB source, simply use a track from the CD(s) to transition! Problem solved!
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by dillinger23 no disrespect, but that is a WHOLE lot of guesswork and assumption. I would rather hear from someone who has actually used a unit physically. Fair enough. Most of Pioneer's gear has been 10bit. Some of their newer gear that has 14bit faders has tended not to fully take advantage of it in transport mode even when they are long enough. A fader that is shorter than 100mm cannot resolve 14bit resolution effectively. To assume the R1 is either a 10bit undersized fader or WAY undersized 14bit one is a very educated guess. If it only has one USB memory port and cannot preload an entire track, then all this is moot and it’s a bum integrated unit, period... an overpriced controller. But suit yourself. I personally would also take the opinion of someone who actually bought one with a grain of salt, considering the issues.
Lizabeth Peight 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by Reticuli It's a guess. A lot of Pioneer gear is 10bit. Pioneer's gear that is 14bit usually doesn't even take advantage of it fully in the firmware. And a short sub-100mm fader that is 14bit will behave like a bad 10bit fader, anyway. You will not get useable 14bit unless its 100mm. To hit this price point, I ASSUME Pioneer used 10bit faders. If they didn't, then they're even dumber than the short faders would seem to indicate, as they're wasting their margin on higher-end faders when they're using a size format that can't even take advantage of it. As I said, that fader size can barely take advantage of 10bit stable. Try sticking a fader like that at 16% and you'll see it flutter between the nearest two values. You'll have to run it at under 16% to get it stable at even .05, and you'll have to go much lower (probably 4-6%) to get stable resolution better than that. no disrespect, but that is a WHOLE lot of guesswork and assumption. I would rather hear from someone who has actually used a unit physically.
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by Shishdisma You're complaining, speculatively, that Pioneer gear doesn't have the mythical hardware power to handle a retarded pitch range that nobody uses, and then advocating buying the Gemini knockoff of said gear. The 7000 is a better knockoff of a CDJ1000/2000 than the R1 is. And there's nothing mythical about 100mm pitch faders. I have units with them in both 10 and 14bit.
Nancey Inderlied 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by Reticuli Anyway, if people want the R1 style stuff but without the Apple features, they should look into the Gemini CDMP7000. Or just buy MixVibes if you're using your laptop. Don't they make Rekordbox? You're complaining, speculatively, that Pioneer gear doesn't have the mythical hardware power to handle a retarded pitch range that nobody uses, and then advocating buying the Gemini knockoff of said gear.
Alfredo Tooher 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by Reticuli Hmm. Interesting. Maybe it's a Fat32 reading problem, not a writing problem. So maybe anything that is limited to reading Fat32 file structures is going to have a problem, but since computers that you're loading these files onto can handle anything, you're able to cram it full as if it were a HFS+ or some enhanced Fat32 device. That can't be a coincidence that I can't find Fat32-only transports that can handle more than the 9999/999/999 limit and the R1 matches this characteristic. Anyway, if people want the R1 style stuff but without the Apple features, they should look into the Gemini CDMP7000. Or just buy MixVibes if you're using your laptop. Don't they make Rekordbox? definitely interesting, I guess at this stage, only Pioneer really knows why they keep limiting these controllers Yes, Mixvibes makes Rekordbox, "Cross" is actually pretty good, i have played with it at home to test when it was released
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Hmm. Interesting. Maybe it's a Fat32 reading problem, not a writing problem. So maybe anything that is limited to reading Fat32 file structures is going to have a problem, but since computers that you're loading these files onto can handle anything, you're able to cram it full as if it were a HFS+ or some enhanced Fat32 device. That can't be a coincidence that I can't find Fat32-only transports that can handle more than the 9999/999/999 limit and the R1 matches this characteristic. Anyway, if people want the R1 style stuff but without the Apple features, they should look into the Gemini CDMP7000. Or just buy MixVibes if you're using your laptop. Don't they make Rekordbox?
Alfredo Tooher 07.07.2013	Right, but i only use FAT32 formatted drives and I don't have a limit issue
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	That's some awful unfortunate price bracketing Pioneer is doing, now. Oh well. If I had the dough to shell out for top of the line stuff, it'd be Denon. Better bang for buck. Always seemed to me to have better sound quality, too. And I don't like Pioneer headphones ;-) Originally Posted by brichi wow, thats a whole bunch of wrong info, lol 1. it's not a limit of FAT32 being that the 2000's read a drive of 30,000 files with no issues, it's a limit of the R! and Areo specs being able to handle that big of a file size 2. on the R1 you cannot wait for a track to buffer and pull the usb to plug in another, if you pull the usb, the track stops therefore you would need to put your collection on multiple usb's and use a cd to play while you swap usb sticks 3. there is no laptop connection upload system from the laptop to the R1 so that's out of the question too unfortunately so to answer this properly with the correct tested info from a unit I had when you use RB for the R1 you MUST go into RB settings and change the export device to the R1 or the R1 will not read the drive as a RB drive, In doing this the export is now limited to 10,000. I exported about 11,000 tracks to a drive but when you hit "Eject" it creates a R1 library and at that point it tells you the library cannot be created because you have more then 10,000 tracks on the rive
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Bingo! From the R1 manual: "Supported file systems: Fat16 and Fat32 (HFS+ and NTFS are not supported.)" I was not aware the CDJ-2000 nexus could do HFS+. Maybe the newest Denons can also do it? I remember some of the older Linux-based (using open-source firmware) Numark units could even do NTFS. I believe that Stanton integrated unit can also do NTFS, but only very slowly. I thought the open-source thing from Numark was quite brilliant. It's too bad they stopped using it. It would have been nice to see some NX7 quality gear built using it.
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	I believe this file number difference may be the result of the CDJ-2000 recognizing HFS+ drives. Every Fat32-only transport player (and MP3 player, for that matter) I know of only can see 9,999 tracks (999 folders, 999 files per folder). I may be wrong. Are you sure the R1 can see HFS+ and doesn't need specifically Fat32?
Alfredo Tooher 07.07.2013	unfortunately no, the whole point in the wireless on the R1 is so you can control the R1 from the iPad and search the tracks of the usb drive plugged into the 1 port. There is no way, like the Aero, to load tracks wirelessly from a wireless device. That would have been great but they did not include this feature If Pioneer only has 1 USB device port on the R1 and it does not load the entire track into buffer, than LOL. That's bad. agreed, does not buffer, bad move As for Fat32, my mistake. I only ever put 9,999 tracks total on any USB Fat32 storage devices. It works for any brand of gear that takes USB. Loads fast. Any transport player can read it. I use 5 drives. all good, yes, I and many mobile guys I know have a very extensive, organized library so i work with large databases all the time and the track limit is based on the players, I guess to keep cost down, they used slower processors and less memory so it cannot handle it.
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by brichi wow, thats a whole bunch of wrong info, lol 1. it's not a limit of FAT32 being that the 2000's read a drive of 30,000 files with no issues, it's a limit of the R! and Areo specs being able to handle that big of a file size 2. on the R1 you cannot wait for a track to buffer and pull the usb to plug in another, if you pull the usb, the track stops therefore you would need to put your collection on multiple usb's and use a cd to play while you swap usb sticks 3. there is no laptop connection upload system from the laptop to the R1 so that's out of the question too unfortunately so to answer this properly with the correct tested info from a unit I had when you use RB for the R1 you MUST go into RB settings and change the export device to the R1 or the R1 will not read the drive as a RB drive, In doing this the export is now limited to 10,000. I exported about 11,000 tracks to a drive but when you hit "Eject" it creates a R1 library and at that point it tells you the library cannot be created because you have more then 10,000 tracks on the rive Uhhhh... isn't that the whole point of the R1's wireless system? To upload tracks onto it while freeing you from DVS? If Pioneer only has 1 USB device port on the R1 and it does not load the entire track into buffer, than LOL. That's bad. As for Fat32, my mistake. I only ever put 9,999 tracks total (999 folders max, 999 files per folder max) on any USB Fat32 storage devices. It works for any brand of gear that takes USB. Loads fast. Any transport player can read it. I use 5 drives.
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 Where are you getting all this information about the bit depth of the faders? It's a guess. A lot of Pioneer gear is 10bit. Pioneer's gear that is 14bit usually doesn't even take advantage of it fully in the firmware. And a short sub-100mm fader that is 14bit will behave like a bad 10bit fader, anyway. You will not get useable 14bit unless its 100mm. To hit this price point, I ASSUME Pioneer used 10bit faders. If they didn't, then they're even dumber than the short faders would seem to indicate, as they're wasting their margin on higher-end faders when they're using a size format that can't even take advantage of it. As I said, that fader size can barely take advantage of 10bit stable. Try sticking a fader like that at 16% and you'll see it flutter between the nearest two values. You'll have to run it at under 16% to get it stable at even .05, and you'll have to go much lower (probably 4-6%) to get stable resolution better than that.
Dannie Dimora 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by brichi wow, thats a whole bunch of wrong info, lol this..
Alfredo Tooher 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by Reticuli That's a limit of Fat32. And there's nothing preventing multiple USB devices to divide your track collection up. For that to work, of course, you must either have multiple USB connectors per system (one per transport or at least 2 shared ports on integrated units) or the track must completely load into buffer memory on the unit before you pull it out. The laptop connection track upload system that Denon and Pioneer use now also allows you to get past that issue. wow, thats a whole bunch of wrong info, lol 1. it's not a limit of FAT32 being that the 2000's read a drive of 30,000 files with no issues, it's a limit of the R! and Areo specs being able to handle that big of a file size 2. on the R1 you cannot wait for a track to buffer and pull the usb to plug in another, if you pull the usb, the track stops therefore you would need to put your collection on multiple usb's and use a cd to play while you swap usb sticks 3. there is no laptop connection upload system from the laptop to the R1 so that's out of the question too unfortunately OK, can someone please confirm this point definitively..... Is the R1 10,000 song limit regarding the maximum number of tracks on the USB device to be plugged into the R1? Or is it saying that if you have an R1, you must tell Rekordbox this in advance and it will only analyse, or allow you to have 10,000 max tracks in your rekordbox library on your home computer system. I really would love to know as many are getting really worked up on this topic! so to answer this properly with the correct tested info from a unit I had when you use RB for the R1 you MUST go into RB settings and change the export device to the R1 or the R1 will not read the drive as a RB drive, In doing this the export is now limited to 10,000. I exported about 11,000 tracks to a drive but when you hit "Eject" it creates a R1 library and at that point it tells you the library cannot be created because you have more then 10,000 tracks on the rive
Alphonso Deitchman 07.07.2013	Where are you getting all this information about the bit depth of the faders?
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 What makes you believe the faders are 10bit? 16% is far too much pitch bend for a track. No it isn't. And even 100mm 10bit faders can do stable 0.05 at 16% range. 14bit 100mm is where you start getting into around 0.02 deep pitch in the around 10% range to allow nice blends. Of course, none of this matters for the 'tarded sync crowd that the unit is obviously aimed at.
Dannie Dimora 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by Reticuli That's a limit of Fat32. . Wait, fader resolution is determined by... disk filesystem? dfuq
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by dillinger23 OK, can someone please confirm this point definitively..... Is the R1 10,000 song limit regarding the maximum number of tracks on the USB device to be plugged into the R1? Or is it saying that if you have an R1, you must tell Rekordbox this in advance and it will only analyse, or allow you to have 10,000 max tracks in your rekordbox library on your home computer system. I really would love to know as many are getting really worked up on this topic! That's a limit of Fat32. And there's nothing preventing multiple USB devices to divide your track collection up. For that to work, of course, you must either have multiple USB connectors per system (one per transport or at least 2 shared ports on integrated units) or the track must completely load into buffer memory on the unit before you pull it out. The laptop connection track upload system that Denon and Pioneer use now also allows you to get past that issue.
Alphonso Deitchman 07.07.2013	What makes you believe the faders are 10bit? 16% is far too much pitch bend for a track.
Carletta Riemer 07.07.2013	Originally Posted by dillinger23 Right???????????? its the only bum note on an otherwise fantastic seeming bit of kit, and the stupid thing is there is PLENTY of empty real estate above and below the faders, they could have easily made them longer. But Pioneer are learning faaaaaaaaast. Pioneer DJ is run by morons. A $900 integrated system/controller with short 10bit faders? My Versadeck has better faders than that thing... and I find them barely enough. It will be difficult to hold .05% pitch res even at 16% range. Probably very touchy. You'll have to run the range lower if you want it stable. It looks right up there with the junk from Reloop. The only reason Pioneer is the standard is because they're a rich company that gives a lot of gear away to artists and clubs. Simple as that. For $900, you can buy a good laptop, an interface, and four channels worth of 14bit controllers... and you'll have the ability to convolve the sound system within the laptop's VST routing. Going digital has its advantages.
Lizabeth Peight 29.06.2013	I'm currently Traktor, but I SERIOUSLY like the idea of external mixer mode and seamlessly switching between decks controlling software, then USBs, and CDs! I'm fairly sure it's possible, but would be nice to have a positive 'field report'.
Alfredo Tooher 29.06.2013	Originally Posted by sebastiannz hey mate - what's the build quality like compared to the S4? does it make s4 seem toyish? the build quality is definitely nice, one of the better I have plated with in the controller world, it's close if not the same as the DDJ-SX build quality I'd love to know what the VDJ skin/version is like? I had tried to download VDJ to test but it keeps saying it's $150 after i enter the s/n which obviously i am not paying, lol... if i get the download for free like it claims it should be, I will post a pic
Lizabeth Peight 29.06.2013	And actually to supplement that question, if VDJ was to be used, it would be in external mixer mode which I understand is possible with this, so you can easily move between VDJ/software, CDs, and USB, just as you would with a 900/2000NXS setup! So any feedback on that aspect would be much appreciated also.
Lizabeth Peight 29.06.2013	I'd love to know what the VDJ skin/version is like? I would be getting this unit to wean myself back off software and back onto 'standalone' using either WAV filled CDs, or of course a rekordbox USB, but for those relapses during 'coming off software' it would be nice to see a screenshot of the R1s version of VDJ. One this I've never liked about it is its lack skin configuration. I'd be quite happy to have nothing but the browser visible and then use just the R1 and audio feedback to mix from, not looking at the screen again after loading a track for example!
Peggy Gabrielson 29.06.2013	Originally Posted by brichi I have one for the weekend loaned to me from a local shop, ask any questions you have now hey mate - what's the build quality like compared to the S4? does it make s4 seem toyish?
Alfredo Tooher 28.06.2013	LOL,,, so far I like the design, doing the FW update now and exporting tracks seems not able to read my drive I exported for my CDJ2000 though, doing tests to see why and if you really have to choose this deck on export
Verlene Geevarghese 28.06.2013	General questions from the peanut gallery. Level of awesomeness 1-10? Worth giving up the fight against RGAS?
Alfredo Tooher 28.06.2013	I have one for the weekend loaned to me from a local shop, ask any questions you have now
Alfredo Tooher 27.06.2013	yeah, a local place by me "MusicTrends" got them in also, Tempted to go play
Oretha Afful 27.06.2013	agipro says shipping today as of this morning. no word on arrival at Guitar Center yet though. Damn was hoping to grab one of these for this weekend.
Alfredo Tooher 20.06.2013	Originally Posted by nudedudewithattitude Brichi, have you ever considered the Aero? I believe you can just load tracks from the RB collection on your laptop. yes but some big things (again that I personally need) 1. 10,000 track limit on usb 2. only way to LINK rb to it is wirelessly, I dont trust it 3. No hot cues 4. only 1 memory point can be used on the Aero vs the 10 that RB allows for decks like the 900/2000 I dont believe Pioneer will ever make a deck that is 100% perfect for every user, especially me. For me the ONLY deck that is perfect for what I like to do is the Denon 3900, I just had to many issues with Denon gear and i choose not to buy their stuff anymore
Marcelina Hanaway 20.06.2013	Brichi, have you ever considered the Aero? I believe you can just load tracks from the RB collection on your laptop.
Alfredo Tooher 20.06.2013	Originally Posted by donstone Shipping date is up to June 27th on AGIpro the 10K limit is just odd. Why would pioneer gimp this controller when it uses the exact same rekordbox software as their other gear but the other gear can do more. It just doesn't make sense that they would put a limit. It's not a limit of the software, just a set limit by Pioneer for some reason. mainly to lower the cost, smaller memory, slower processor = need to limit tracks for faster browsing ability most people that would use this would most likely prefer the lower cost then the ability to have it support over 10,000
Marcelina Hanaway 20.06.2013	Looking forward to messing around with this. Spent so much $$$ on my CDJ setup. It would be nice to sell and get some money back if the R1 works as well as I hope.
Oretha Afful 20.06.2013	Shipping date is up to June 27th on AGIpro the 10K limit is just odd. Why would pioneer gimp this controller when it uses the exact same rekordbox software as their other gear but the other gear can do more. It just doesn't make sense that they would put a limit. It's not a limit of the software, just a set limit by Pioneer for some reason.
Alfredo Tooher 20.06.2013	awesome! definitely leave feedback here if you don't mind once you receive it!
Lizabeth Peight 20.06.2013	Originally Posted by brichi dillinger I agree 100% man, The unit is awesome for the price!!! Me personally, thats the only hold back but for a lot of guys, they will love this unit, Has so many great feature and its definitely a reasonable price, I may get one just as a toy for playing at home and letting my kid practice I've got one reserved here in the UK. Can't wait!!!!
Alfredo Tooher 20.06.2013	dillinger I agree 100% man, The unit is awesome for the price!!! Me personally, thats the only hold back but for a lot of guys, they will love this unit, Has so many great feature and its definitely a reasonable price, I may get one just as a toy for playing at home and letting my kid practice

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Pioneer xdj-r1??