Allen & Heath DX ...?
Allen & Heath DX ...? | |
| Yon Gigler 25.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by silversx
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| Madlyn Trocino 25.04.2010 | yeppers on that....this is the EXACT problem and im uploading the video as we speak. I took everything apart peice by piece and its gonna show it all from top to bottom. Im undecided if shorting the bottom of the PLAY & CUE is the way to go...or if putting a tiny rubber peice beneath the buttons to create more room between them. My fear with shortening the PLAY & CUE button is that if you make them too short, they might stop hitting the internal switches. Got 20 minutes to go on the video upload. |
| Evita Stuckman 25.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by thictool
thic.. would it be possible to shorten the underside of the buttons ourselves? AH support said their R&D is looking into this and asked for my serial #.. if it can be quick fixed by shortening the bottom side of the buttons.. maybe you can show us how to do it thanks |
| Madlyn Trocino 25.04.2010 | TABS I already did that. I took it apart and reasembled it and experienced the exact same problem. Im making a video as I write this of me taking the unit apart. I have found the problem though. It indeed is the way the hard plastic PLAY & CUE buttons interact with the internal switches. When PLAY & CUE buttons are removed the internal switches act as they should and are not affected at all by tapping or vibration. The problem is that there is no room for travel between the plastic button and the internal switch, its way too tight. There is a tiny knob located at the bottom of the PLAY & CUE button that hits the internal switch (tripping the midi command) and I believe its too long and needs to be shorter. This is all shown on the video im about to post. Im putting the vid together now....will post in the next hour. |
| Matthew Urtel 26.04.2010 | disassemble the dx take out the play/cue, reassemble and tap on it and see what happens. I am curious to see. Now you have $2000+ worth of DXs...might just sell and get a 4D, lol. |
| Yon Gigler 26.04.2010 | This is now becoming pathetic. I've posted a video demonstrating the same force you showed in your video thictool. I'm not going to start whacking my unit with some serious force as I have no need to. I've also played out at a few clubs all with good sound systems and have never had this problem. For your last comment you have lost all respect from me. Hope you get it fixed Edit: Just watched your video through and you are claiming I did not tap my unit hard enough. Seriously? My wife was in the bedroom which is a good bit away from where I done the test and she shouted through whats that banging noise (and this is over the volume of the music). The tapping you did in your 3rd video trying to emulate what I did is so weak. Seriously man how hard do I need to hit the unit? Watch my video again. Seriously dont come on here bashing me saying I'm not doing the test properly. |
| Madlyn Trocino 25.04.2010 | hesitant's been saying all along he hasnt had this issue. hesitant chooses not to give the unit a significat amount of force when doing the experiment which I can also duplicate if I "GINGERLY" tap both of my units. I believe this is a problem that affects all units and what it comes down to is....are people REALLY willing to do the test properly and are they willing to accept what they find. Like I said before, I wouldnt be bothered by this if club vibrations didnt cause this to be a problem in a live situation. FYI - Last evening I DJed at a club I have not DJed at before with the DX. This club has subs in the DJ Booth monitor setup. I was tag teaming with another DJ and while he was playing his set, I breifly engaged the PLAY & CUE on both units (yes I brought 2 units) to see if I'd experience problems. There were problems as soon as the monitors were turned up to a certain level. It seems that the relentless & constant force of sub bass frequencies make these buttons completely freak out in a consistant pattern. Basically they just studder the whole time. At the moment I am taking the unit apart and will soon post video. But for now here's a video of me "gingerly" tapping the unit VS. "actually" tapping the unit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DorP5iD6NRI |
| Evita Stuckman 25.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by hesitant
BUT.. if i give it one hard tap it does work sometimes.. try giving it one hard tap between the cue play buttons and see.. i had to tap really hard but i was able o reproduce it.. |
| Yon Gigler 25.04.2010 | Just a quick video showing my unit is not effected by this tapping issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2uSFn4YAMA |
| Kecia Wnukowski 25.04.2010 | I would be very interested to see how that would be sorted out by A&H for those who encountered the issue. I can't see a patch fixing that. Returns? |
| Matthew Urtel 24.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by mmauve
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| Roselle Mcnaul 24.04.2010 | Just got back from the DJ gear
store, the salesman was trumped as to why the thing ate shit when I lightly tapped on the unit lol. Needless to say, no sale. +1 on the button issue. |
| Madlyn Trocino 24.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by TABS
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| Corine Kasman 24.04.2010 | @thictool Here is a timely post on a slightly different topic, but the solution could be viable for you too: http://www.djranking s.com/community /showthread.php?t=13481 If there is not much room to play with, the foam here could work like the extra spring force you may need. Just something to believe about tomorrow when you open her up. Phil. |
| Matthew Urtel 24.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by Yul
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| Kecia Wnukowski 24.04.2010 | You are a superb specimen. A magnificent one. |
| Matthew Urtel 24.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by pilmat
The only solution I see right now is to remove the actual rubber buttons and just press on the actual switch, or possibly see if you can reproduce this without the rubber buttons even in. |
| Madlyn Trocino 24.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by pilmat
Yeah when I took my original unit apart, I can say your absolutely correct. The PLAY & CUE buttons are thick pieces of plastic that rest directly on a hardware internal switch. There is nothing in between. Its exatly like what you see if you look underneath an XPONENT or BCD-3000 Play & Cue button. The internal switch is just a small singular black switch that is directly mounted to the cuircut board. Im busy with work toevening but I will take the unit apart again and take Video of the project. Should have it up tommorrow after 5pm....ok? |
| Roselle Mcnaul 24.04.2010 | Oi...you'd believe by now A&H's R&D department would learn a lesson or two with the 3D buggy soundcard, 4D issues w/ serial numbers pre 90,000, and now the DX's susceptibility to vibrations. The hardware quality is there, but the refine and software side of their branding is just awful. Alright, out the door to give this a look myself. I'll let you know what happens with that, and what the serial number was. |
| Corine Kasman 24.04.2010 | How short of travel are the "Cue" and "Play/Pause" buttons? If they are really short travel then I fear this is a major hardware issue. It looks from the video like the button is activated to the impulse (hit), which means that the button is heavy relative to the spring that supports it. There is not much that can be done software wise to fix this (it is not like switch "bounce" which is an electrical phenomenon), as the unit does not know if you are activating the switch or if it is an impulse closing the circuit. It would take a hardware modification to fix it. Either by removing mass from the button, or increasing the force from the spring (by a stronger spring or more pre-load on the current one, which would be my preferred solution). If neither can be done, then the switch will need to be replaced by a different design. Maybe the current one could be modded. Pictures would help here (NOT another attempt to get pictures, I would like to help find a solution for you). Phil. |
| Madlyn Trocino 24.04.2010 | BTW others are also experiencing the problem in 2 other Forums...so there that is.... http://www.serato.com/community /discussion/254127 http://www.xone.co.uk/community /community _po...?TID=3524&PN=1 |
| Madlyn Trocino 24.04.2010 | please stop with the "try this" comments. This is a hardware issue...period. It couldnt possibly be more obvious. Im not here to take anyones inventory or be rude or whatever Ive been accused of being through all of this....im simply saying...."hey folks the DX has a problem and weither you want to accept that or not is up to you." I posted a fact based account through video on TWO units showing the EXACT same issue on both units. I wouldnt even be so bothered with this issue if I didnt experience it in a live situation where the subs in the club were making the PLAY & CUE button go crazy. The reason I bought a new unit for testing is because I didnt want to rely on other peoples opinion on weither or not they feel they have the same issue. I have satisfied my own mind in knowing that this INDEED IS an issue and its only a matter of time before this unit hits the market with a HUGE problem on its hands. Like i said before, I did not notice this problem until it happened at a club in front of 100s of people. Only then did I decide to do futher testing and found what I found. This has nothing to do with mapping because I happens while using ITCH software, which comes with a default ready made pre-defined midi map built in. |
| Roselle Mcnaul 24.04.2010 | Damn thictool, I feel for you man. Seriously disappointing for a $1200 piece of gear . Im heading out to a local music store to test one of these out, I will let you know if there is anything similar to what you posted. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 24.04.2010 | I've just plugged again the dx to do the test once more. I don't have the problem at all. No issue when tapping near the buttons or at the middle on the mixer part. Do you have anything mapped on the jogwheel that at a point or another may engages or disengages play (in Traktor or Itch)? if that's the case, try to get rid of the functions or change the sensitivity and see if that same behaviour happens. |
| Madlyn Trocino 24.04.2010 | No serial numbers are miles apart. First unit I bought from England Second unit I bought from america |
| Kecia Wnukowski 24.04.2010 | Check the Serial n |
| Madlyn Trocino 24.04.2010 | I posted earlier regarding the Xone DX is having a problem with Club vibrations (and tapping of the unit) egaging the PLAY & CUE buttons. I bought a second unit brand new from the factory. While others on this community are claiming not to have this problem, I suspected that it might be the case of "ownership bias". So to prove to myself, and those who claim not to have this problem, and the rest of the world, I went ahead and bought another unit to do a second test. What I found is what I suspected. This IS a problem on the second unit also. Infact, the second unit is worse then the first unit. As I said this unit literally just came to my door less then an hour ago and there has had no modifications made to it. Instead of repeating myself, here is more video footage of the second test I did with a different brand new Xone DX midi controller. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7aVD55EL5w This is a major problem folks.... |
| Madlyn Trocino 23.04.2010 | I didnt take pictures unfortunately. There is some mod room inside though. There's not enough room from top to bottom to put arcade buttons in although they do fits the holes that the original PLAY & CUE buttons live. From looking at it closely, it looks like the "Double Layer" capabilities and the prossesers that enable this function live in the area that hosts the JOG located on a curcuit board inderneath them. There is a long ribbon cable (with about 15 or 20 lines per cable) that extends from each JOG section that goes to the main board and im believeing it might be possible to cut this cable and mapp ARCADE buttons (or whatever) directly from those cables. However it looks like it might also dis-enage the "double Layer" functionality. Inside this unit reminds me alot of the VCI-100 in that there is a fair amout of room for mods and also there is alot of ribbon cabling. If you compare it to a BCD-3000 or Xponent there is a ton more room. Also the BCD and XPONENT have all the wiring mounted directly onto the circuit board with no external cabling.....This is NOT the case with the DX. Hope this sheds some light... |
| Corine Kasman 24.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by thictool
Phil. |
| Madlyn Trocino 24.04.2010 | Well maybe I do have the only DX on earth with this specific problem. I decided to bite the bullet and order a new unit which was posted today on Ebay from a company in New York. They had 2 units ($1200.00 including shipping) and from what I understand they are the only company in America to have them at the moment. I am getting it over evening ed so I will recieve it tommorrow morning. Im most curious about doing the "Tap Test" on the new unit so I can see for myself if indeed this is something I can duplicate on the new unit. Hopefully I will not be able to duplicate it, however im not very hopeful until I do. Im hoping to be able to return the original unit although its been a couple of weeks since I ordered it. Guess I could sell on Ebay it also. I will post my findings. BTW I did accually take apart my original DX to see if there was something in how it was put together that was creating the problem. The unit is easy to dis-assemble. You can unscrew 7 screws to get the plastic Jog portion to come away from the unit. The plastic Jog portion is broken down into two parts. I reasembled the unit only to find I could again dublicate the original problem. This is why im not all that hopeful about the new unit....but I shall see. |
| Clarice Papenfuss 23.04.2010 | hello I make a test too and i dont have the issue. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 22.04.2010 | I've just done the 'tapping test' (and with some force), and like Hesitant my unit don't have the issue. Cant' tell about woofers, mines aren't powerful enough. Bigbeatzz's suggestion would be worth checking just in case. |
| Roselle Mcnaul 21.04.2010 | I honestly wish you the best with getting your issues resolved. A&H support was the primary reason I ended up pawning my Xone 4D, some people have had great experience with them though - so Im hoping it was just an isolated issue with me lol. Turns out the first 60,000 serial number at the 4D launch were plagued with issues. The straw that broke the camels back with me is when the moderator at the A&H community started censoring peoples issues and deleting threads centric to 4D problems. Haven't looked back since, maybe things have changed with them. Keep us posted though, I have an interest in the unit myself but curious as to how and when they resolve the problems people seem to be having. |
| Madlyn Trocino 21.04.2010 | ummm yeah this is a brilliant statement.... whatever Yul...suprisingly you did spell "biased generalizations" correctly, which BTW you changed from your original post that said "I wont feed the troll" (brilliant wording buddy) Dude why even bother...... |
| Kecia Wnukowski 21.04.2010 | You fail to understand the difference between the valid issues you have with the unit and the biased generalizations you're making especially about other users. I believe I spotted one. Warning. |
| Madlyn Trocino 21.04.2010 | Listen im not trying to be rude....but I posted earlier about another issue I had with the DX Jog Wheel and some people were claiming they did not have the issue. Turns out the issue affected all units...lol I know what its like to have a midi unit that Ive waited enlessly for, and payed a fortune for, and I want to believe (with all my heart) that if there is a problem someones claiming to have with it...it must be a problem only for "that person". Ive done this MANY times and learned the hard way. I could see if this issue was related to only one side of the controller. but since it affects both sides equally....it would seem to me there is a bigger problem. While doing more tests, I also learned that not only does the vibration (or tapping) cause the PLAY & CUE buttons to engage, but also it can flip the layer mode into Deck C&D. I have a trouble ticket with A&D and they did not question the crossfader issue at all....and besides as I posted earlier, it has nothing to do with the crossfader. If you'd open the unit you would see why. A&D responded by saying they were looking into a resolution for the problem and didnt at any time act as if it were issolated to my unit or try and blame the problem on something I did personally to my unit. This is saying something. I am posting the video to the A&H community today in hopes of getting people to try their units and do the test. As far as comparing this to a vinyl situation and the skipping of it while being touched too hard....well I guess....but this isnt vinyl...lol.....and this issue simply does NOT happen with virtually ALL other midi controllers on the market. Exactly why would I be forgiving of this issue from a unit that is considered the MOST profectional midi unit of all time.....and the most expensive unit ever made? |
| Karolis Petrauskas 20.04.2010 | When you removed the crossfader did you have to take off the top? Maybe something got a bit misaligned when you reinstalled the top plate. Maybe if you remove it and put it back it can fix your issue. |
| Matthew Urtel 20.04.2010 | I would get a refund, then buy a VMS4. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 20.04.2010 |
I find it hard to believe this is isolated to my unit only. I suspect people and their love for this unit (and the money they spent on it) will have them either NOT doing the test and saying they did or not doing it properly or just being in total denial completely.
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| Yon Gigler 20.04.2010 | Hey thictool, I wasn't nessasarily aiming the problem at the crossfader removal it was just a thought. As for the problem being isolated I don't see why this can't be the case. I've played mine out for the last 4 weeks in different clubs and none have had an effect on the unit. I'm also quite happy to post a video showing me tapping the unit (pretty hard) in the same place you show in your video. Believe me my unit is not being affected by this. Hope you get it sorted soon. |
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