Allen & Heath DX ...?
Allen & Heath DX ...? | |
| Roselle Mcnaul 05.05.2010 | Hey sorry if I missed this in the thread, but how is the platter performance on the DX? Does it "grab" the track when you apply pressure?, is it good for light scratching, cueing, etc? |
| Kecia Wnukowski 05.05.2010 | I was enquiring about midi notes to get use of the green lights on the monitor cue buttons directly to A&H's support and I've just got this answer:
At present, control of the Green LEDs is not supported via MIDI *but* it is likely that this will change in the next firmware update - this is due to take place in the next couple of weeks or so.
Keep an eye on the community s as the update will be announced there as soon as it is available. Hope this helps. |
| Corine Kasman 29.04.2010 | ROFL! Sound pressure level is not a good vibration measurement. You need to measure acceleration (normally in GRMS, as in gravity not grams) across many frequencies (swept at 1 octave per minute is a good starting point). Not knocking the problem with the DX, but that A&H test is like weighing a lightbulb and claiming that it is bright enough. And as a further note, the iPhone is now considered laboratory grade gear ? :-) They only interesting part of the video is when the phone is put on the DX and you see it rattling, but it is also apparent that the frequency is too high to get down to the range the problem seems to be at (I would say that the test needs to go from 10 up to 3kHz for the type of inertia and mode we are looking for). Regardless of how much a publicity stunt the video is, they are taking the problem seriously and I recommend everybody get the mod. Time will only make the problem worse! Phil. |
| Yon Gigler 29.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by Yul
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| Karolis Petrauskas 28.04.2010 | Now thats a vibration test! Whats the app he's using to check levels? |
| Kecia Wnukowski 29.04.2010 | From Serato's community
, allen&Heath response:
Hi All
After collating reports from end-users and further tests, we have more details. Please see below. Sound Pressure Levels: We are aware of one instance of switch actuation due to sound pressure levels. During development and testing have we not encountered this. The video link below demonstrates the stability of the Xone DX switches (on a randomly selected production unit) when subjected to extreme sound pressure levels and mechanical vibration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL90ib9fBEw If your unit has been affected by sound pressure levels please contact A&H Support, at: allen-heath.helpserve.com, with more details Striking the front panel: We are aware that some users have reported that a sharp strike to the front panel or deck assembly may also trigger the deck switches. This has been illustrated in links within the thread; we don’t believe this is how the unit would be used practically and, as such, should not affect normal operation. The XoneX deck switches were specifically designed for lightness of feel and instant response. If end-users feel that accidental switch actuation caused by striking the front panel creates a performance issue for them, the deck assemblies can be changed to implement a heavier switch. The heavier switch will prevent this from happening, though our designers feel this will have an adverse affect on the tactile feel of switches currently used. If DX owners feel that a heavier switch is necessary in performance environments we are, within the conditions of warranty, willing to change existing units. In this case, please contact your supplier to arrange return of the unit. Hope this helps. - all units are affected - some users are in denial and"claiming" they're not affected while they are - "X chooses not to give the unit a significant amount of force when doing the experiment which I can also duplicate if I "GINGERLY" tap both of my units." or (I really like this one): - "or maybe they just need to give the unit a more manly tap than a sissy pinch to so they can live in denial and tell themselves that their unit is the 1 out of 5000 that is fine.. lol" oh, and let me quote myself:
if you're surprised to have sensitive button engaging themselves while you're manually tapping with SOME force near to them, well, I don't know for the time being but that' something I would expect (a bit like tapping on a vinyl and saying 'doh' the needle jumps) - but that's me.
Anyway, the flaw exists, it's a major one that affect some units and that shouldn't have happened at all for a new product release. |
| Rebbeca Henningsen 28.04.2010 | Got mine today! woot woot! This thing is sick. I tried to get it working with timecode CD's for Traktor Scratch Pro and had no luck. Apparently it has to be "scratch certified" to work that way.... bummer. Anyway, I will be getting the CDJ-900 soon. I have not been able to do the hard tap test as my gf is asleep in the room. But tomorrow I will be sure to try it. As for the repair, why can't we just take it to a local certified Xone repair shop and have them fix it. If my local one can get the parts it will take a day to repair (if that). It'll save on shipping and time. |
| Roselle Mcnaul 27.04.2010 | why am I not surprised HTFR said that. |
| Evita Stuckman 27.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by thictool
Al said he'll look into any options.. I really hope they pick up the shipping cost on this.. |
| Madlyn Trocino 27.04.2010 | As upset I am in this situation I must say A&H are handling this really well. I heard from them A&H today and they are doing the repair of the unit and shipping of the unit without us being reponsible for any shipping or repair costs. From the way it was explained to me, they will send a RMA number to the retailer you bought it from, which will allow your unit to be sent back, fixed and re-sent back to you, free of charge. And I believe its the kind of thing where the mail carrier will even pick up the unit at your door. I would advise those to contact A&H directly so that you can get the proccess started. They are saying a couple of weeks on the turn around time so its not as bad as you might believe.... |
27.04.2010 | As long as there in this 'modifiying' stage.. they might as well change that ugly plastic box the transport controlls are sitting in back to the way they are crafted into the unit as they are on all the D-series... seriously....I believe it's an awesome unit... I would want one... but at that price I would like it perfect... |
| Kecia Wnukowski 27.04.2010 |
Hi All
Firstly, thanks to thictool for identifying this issue; we have been able to recreate the symptoms on units here and, while we are aware not all users are experiencing the symptoms - and do not believe that ALL units will suffer from the issue, we do understand that this is not limited to a single unit. A hardware fix has now been found that permanently resolves the issue and this will be made available, under warranty, as soon as is practicably possible, to any user with a unit that suffers from the related symptoms. At present we request any users who are experiencing the problem to contact A&H Technical Support directly HERE with the following details: 1. unit serial number 2. place of purchase 3. your location We can then advise you directly of the appropriate course of action to ensure the issue is resolved. Please note that you can also forward the above details to us here as a PM, but that contacting us via established channels is always the most efficient way to proceed. We hope this helps. |
| Rebbeca Henningsen 26.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by thictool
Either way I would recommend getting it looked at by the authorized service centers.
I get mine tomorrow and hope that mine doesn't do that, although it probably will, and if not either way I'm going to make A&H swap out the buttons. My question now is how long will it take for them to implement the fix for current users. Going 4+ weeks without your weapon of choice sucks... Thanks for the link YUL |
| Madlyn Trocino 26.04.2010 | I cant even believe people are still defending their "so called" un-affected units. its Hilarious... Look if this werent a major issue why on earth would A&H admit it to be a design flaw, not to mention the fact that they are making brand new hardware as we speak. This problem and A&H's solution is going to cost them alot of cash. The DX has barely hit the market and for A&H to be going to such lengths at this stage of the game is speaking volumes about this issue. Its the real deal people. Of course A&H is going to "Pitch" this issue as a "Need Be" kinda thing because otherwise they would have a total recall on their hands which will cost them alot more. Why people are wasting there time here defending a unit that is been accepted as a "Flawed Design" by the company who makes it is completely beyond me........who really cares.
Originally Posted by Rogue-DJ
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| Kecia Wnukowski 26.04.2010 | exactly +1 Maybe here http://www.allen-heath.co.uk/US/ edit: there's a link: http://www.allen-heath.co.uk/US/service_centres.asp |
| Rebbeca Henningsen 26.04.2010 | you guys need to quit acting like kids. If you don't have the cue/play button issue, then you're lucky. If you do you're unlucky. Either way I would recommend getting it looked at by the authorized service centers. Anyone know where there's a list of these for the USA? If you guys also didn't notice, the original DX design had rubber cue/play buttons that wouldn't have had this issue because of the vibrations that the material could take. Well alot of people complained that rubber looked and felt cheap, so A&H swapped them out for metallic looking plastic ones. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 26.04.2010 | Oh, another one!! It's a tribe!! |
| Evita Stuckman 26.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by Yul
or maybe they just need to give the unit a more manly tap than a sissy pinch to so they can live in denial and tell themselves that their unit is the 1 out of 5000 that is fine.. lol at first i was like omg.. mine is fine!! tap tap tap nothing!! yay!! then i gave it a more solid knock and bam.. music stops.. rather have that fixed than have no confidence in my gear |
| Kecia Wnukowski 26.04.2010 | Still, there are several people here, on the Serato community
, and on other community
s who do not seem to be affected by this default. I'm really sorry for those who will have to return their unit as for some of them they also waited quite long to get their DX and because it will be a pain to manage shipment, and returns. |
| Paulita Cvetkovich 26.04.2010 | I feel you bro trust me i do :-( |
| Evita Stuckman 26.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by thictool
this is terrible.. sending my dx on a world trip while i'm out of business for a month at least.. when they can just send out two circuit boards and be done with it.. by the time the new parts get to my "local" service shop.. it'll be end of the year.. no joke.. |
| Madlyn Trocino 26.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by silversx
A&H doesnt do direct repairs. Exapmle - If you buy a faulty A&H unit from a dealer, then return it to that dealer, the dealer would send it back to A&H, A&H would then send it to their distributor who handles repairs. Mostly units that get sent back to A&H will simply be replaced with a new one anyways. This isnt an idea situation indeed. I have dealt with many situations before and companies have dircetly sent me things to rectify the situation. Considering it only takes unscrewing three tiny screws to replace the DX Plastic Jog section, I cant believe they are going to handle this by asking everyone to take it to a A&H service dealer. |
| Paulita Cvetkovich 26.04.2010 | Wowow now this sucks... :-( Well at least it will get fixed. |
| Evita Stuckman 26.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by thictool
Al told me to contact HTFR.com for return.. but if i'm getting it serviced.. shouldn't i be able to send it direct to AH?? why do we have to jump through so many hoops to get something fixed that's not our fault |
| Madlyn Trocino 26.04.2010 | Just spoke to AL from A&H for an hour. A&H has excepted that this is a faulty design and they are in the proccess of making entierly new Jog sections and will be sending them to all their distributers. These new pieces will be then sent to various local official A&H service departments so people can take their units and get them repaired locally. (I Hope hesitant is reading this...) Acording to A&H the design flaw has to do with the internal switches being to weak for the pressure of the buttons located under the plastic portion of the DX (not just the PLAY & CUE buttons but the LOAD & LAYER too) A&H is funny though....they are saying they will warranty any unit that "has" the issue, yet in the same breath are addmitting that it is a overall design flaw. If it a design flaw, ummm it affects all units from this point back. So basically for all those people who claim NOT to have this issue....you are now proud owners of faulty units with faulty internal switches...lol At this stage I could care less if people claim they dont have the problem because the cat is out of the bag. For those like myself who have purchused their units in england or abroad, A&H says that they will have to be serviced in England unless they can work something out with the Americal distrubutors. It might be the case where even if you bought your unit abroad, you can still get it serviced in America. But there is no word yet if this will be the case. The cat is still outta the bag though.... |
| Evita Stuckman 26.04.2010 | i wish they can fix this without having to do returns.. like a kit with instructions.. thanks.. post as soon as you find out anything |
| Madlyn Trocino 26.04.2010 | Yeah it's was from AL today.... I can't believe their gonna use a method of returns. This is pretty crazy. He says he's gonna call me toevening and explain more. Will post when I hear anything new |
| Evita Stuckman 27.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by thictool
he told me have to ship back for repair or whatever they need to do to fix it.. thing is i don't want to ship to HTFR.com in uk i want ship direct to AH .. since I'm in the usa and its pain in my butt to deal with HTFR.. |
| Madlyn Trocino 26.04.2010 | This is something I recieved from A&H support today R&D are just running through some final tests to prove the fix for this issue and I'm hopeful we will be able to roll this out into the field as soon as possible, but I do them to get confirmation back from them before I can post this onto the community s, so I trust you can bear with me for another 24hours (we're pushing for release but, obviously, the testers need to be certain the fix is good in all situations before we offer it to end-users. |
| Corine Kasman 25.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by silversx
The problem is the button activating it is too heavy for the switch. There are ways to correct this and simple fix is quite possible. But ANY solution will involve opening the unit, which from the video is a definite return issue for A&H (the average person is not going to feel comfortable opening up a complex unit like the DX). Phil. |
| Evita Stuckman 25.04.2010 | i dont see how this can be fixed with out switching out the actual switch if the problem is the switch is activated too easily with too little force.. |
| Matthew Urtel 25.04.2010 | they should hire thictool to run all their products through quality assurance. He did bring this to light, hell they should give him a 4d. Basically they paragraph explains the buttons take little force to activate, they should have a lot stronger resistance. |
| Madlyn Trocino 25.04.2010 | This is from A&H today. They are really taking this seriously and im glad. Although I am alittle confused as to what exactly the paragraph below means, im glad they are responding.... The issue is not firmware, or software related; but relates to tolerances in the actuation force of the physical switch component used. NOTE: This is NOT related to build, or material, quality, or positioning, of the switch assembly, or to other parts of the controller. Nor do the materials used in manufacture, or 'clearances' between components directly affect the issue. The positioning of switch caps, while obviously related to switches, is not relevant to the cause of the problem, so much as to effects of flanking transmission (i.e. 'automatic' switching in club environment), or a direct shock to the jog-wheel assembly (i.e. what you've described as the 'tap experiment'). Since CUE, PLAY/PAUSE, LOAD and LAYER buttons use the same component, explaining why striking the panel in different areas may cause different switches to actuate and why both sides of your DX are subject to the same symptoms. From The nature of the problem, it is apparent these symptoms may not be limited to a single unit, so we do anticipate other users might be experiencing similar issues. Please note, since both tickets you've submitted relate to the same issue, that I have combined the threads. This allows me to assist you more effectively with a resolution to the issue. I hope this helps Regards Al Everyone should hold off untill A&H gives word on what their gonna do. Dont go filing your buttons just yet....... |
| Evita Stuckman 25.04.2010 | Al from AH replied to my tech ticket in which he warned against filing of the button. Apparently it's not he ideal solution and not proper. Also voids warranty obviously. He said they're going to post official word of this on both the xone community and serato community . I believe for the time being everyone should hold off and not do any self mods until AH says something official tomorrow |
| Corine Kasman 25.04.2010 | EDIT, I hit "post" after you filed the nib... Great videos!!! (well once you fixed them ;-P ) PLEASE DO NOT FILE THE NIB ON THE BUTTON! If when the CB is screwed back on with the buttons in place there is NO free play between the the button and the micro switch, this is a last option. My suggestion is to a little piece of foam rubber between the button and the CB to add some "spring" to the button action. This does not need to be a big or thick piece. It should be located at the farthest tip of the button from the hinge (the part that ties the button to the frame which connects the two buttons). So it will be on the edge just beside the nib, not in the nib notch. You are trying to keep the button from moving relative to the whole unit while removing some strain from the switch spring (essentially adding a second helper spring). That button has WAY too much inertia for such a little microswitch, poor design... Cheap and easy experiment that is fully reversible. Again, great video, and keep us posted. Phil. |
| Evita Stuckman 25.04.2010 |
Originally Posted by thictool
hey thanks man.. good to hear you resolved it.. i might do it to mine but maybe not as much as you filed it down since it wasn't as bad to start with ... i'll wait and see if AH support comes up with anything.. i did receive emails from them today saying they will email again on monday when back in office |
| Madlyn Trocino 25.04.2010 | Im way ahead of ya silversx.... I did file it down. It took a few times because I didnt want to "Over" file it. And I ended up filing it to just below where the silver paint stops. I can say with great JOY there is NO MORE PROBLEM after filing it down. I can slam this thing now and nothing happens. Mind you the PLAY & CUE buttons do sit a bit lower after the filing. but they dont sit lower than the black outer peice that surrounds them, and actualy I like the way they feel more then I did before filing them (and no im just not saying that because I already did it). They feel less hard and much more natrual. Also while doing taps tests, I noticed that the LAYER & LOAD button would trip on at times. Not nearly with the consistany of the PLAY & CUE, but it still happens. SO im going to file those down a bit as well. Listen I will post vids of this but I need a break for the day. Ive been at this for 8 hours and im kinda spent. But at least its solved... |
| Evita Stuckman 25.04.2010 | file it down man!! take one for the team!!! i hope AH can send out some shorter buttons .. i don't mind taking it apart and switching.. even tho mine hardly stops even with a hard knock.. i did reproduce it nonetheless.. |
| Evita Stuckman 25.04.2010 | very nice thic.. i don't believe there is any doubt to what the problem is... especially after you took the left side out and hard taps does nothing while the right side with the buttons still on goes nuts.. i hope AH makes this right for all of us who bought from them with faith |
| Madlyn Trocino 25.04.2010 | Heres the vid of the Xone DX being dis-asembled. Showing every detail for those looking to mod as well as the issue the Xone DX is having with the PLAY & CUE Buttons being overly sensitive which causes them to engage without the button being hit. Basic tapping on the unit as well as subwoofer bass frequences cause this behaviar. Part 1 of 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-o9aGnzkbk Part 2 of 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo30bBLsAfQ |
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