Traktor Scratch Poor (a.k.a. Ghetto Timecode Control)

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Traktor Scratch Poor (a.k.a. Ghetto Timecode Control)
Posted on: 09.04.2009 by Aurelia Lenox
So after a few hours of tweaking, I have a working timecode vinyl control setup within Traktor Scratch Pro without the Audio8, or any other pricey 4in/4out card. In fact, my external soundcard only has 2 inputs! Since Traktor only allows you to use one sound device at a time, combining your available devices involves a little bit of software trickery. Here's my current setup:

  • 2 used Technics SL-1200MK2 turntables ($200 each)
  • 2 Traktor Scratch Control Vinyl ($12 each)
  • Four RCA female-female barrel connectors and two RCA-to-1/8" adapters ($6 shipped from Monoprice.com)
  • VCI-100 1.3fw w/ Black DJTT SE Skin ($300, bought from NateD)
  • Miglia HarmonyAudio 2in/8out Firewire Card ($30 from Amazon)
  • Macbook Pro Santa Rosa 2.4ghz ($600, bought broken and repaired)


Oh, and a free copy of Traktor Scratch Pro from a friend who bought it and decided he liked Serato better

Total: $1360.

Here's how my current setup is connected:

1) Technics Deck A: Connect barrel connectors to phono output, then use RCA-to-1/8" to connect to Macbook Pro's stereo line-in.

2) Technics Deck B: Connect barrel connectors to phono output, then use RCA-to-1/8" to connect to HarmonyAudio's stereo line-in.

3) Onto the software trickery! Open up the Audio Midi Setup app in /Applications/Utilities and create an Aggregate Audio Device. More information here: http://www.apple.com/pro/techniques/aggregateaudio/. My Aggregate Device is:

Macbook Line-In (2 in, resampled)
HarmonyAudio (2 in / 8 out, set as clock)

You'll want to set the clock to whatever device you're outputting to, and resample all your other devices to keep them in sync.

The order of your devices in the list is that order that Traktor will see the inputs/outputs on the Aggregate Device. So if my list is in the above order, then in Traktor I would see:

"Aggregate Device (4 in, 8 out)"

...which would correlate as listed below, for me.

Aggregate Device In 0 -- Macbook Line-In Channel 0
Aggregate Device In 1 -- Macbook Line-In Channel 1
Aggregate Device In 2 -- HarmonyAudio In Channel 0
Aggregate Device In 3 -- HarmonyAudio In Channel 1
Aggregate Device Out 0 -- HarmonyAudio Out Channel 0
Aggregate Device Out 1 -- HarmonyAudio Out Channel 1
Aggregate Device Out 2-7 -- HarmonyAudio Out Channel 2-7

You'll likely have a different soundcard, and therefore a different quantity and combination of inputs/outputs, so I'm just defining the connections to clarify my example setup.

4) Now open up Traktor Scratch Pro. Set your audio device to the Aggregate Device, map your Input Routing/Output Routing, and go to Timecode Setup. Should now be seeing a timecode signal for Decks A and B!

I had to adjust my inputs until I got a strong enough signal for Traktor to read the timecode. On my HarmonyAudio box I just turned the input gain all the way up, and for the Macbook Pro line-in, I went to Sound Preferences and set it Line-In to 75% gain (just before the 4th tick). Once everything was set, I had a solid, responsive vinyl setup, with a 2.5ms latency.

Right now, I'm only using two of my soundcard's outputs into my monitors. For when I use this in a club, I would just use the HarmonyAudio's 8 outputs into the club mixer. 4 for Decks A&B into the mixer, 2 for monitoring and 2 for rec/ other line out.

I'll put a vid of this setup working if anybody wants it, but a lot of you should have similar enough gear to try this out for yourselves. Good luck!

--

Charlie Tran, Brooklyn bedroom DJ / web developer
Vernetta Sulenski
29.04.2009
Originally Posted by ctran
The only other minor thing is that when it's playing normally, the pitch keeps jumping between -0.1%, 0%, and +0.1%. Do normal TSP users experience that too?
That happens to me as well on both my Audio 8 and Xone 4D. I believe its my Numark TTX turntables. The BPM readout in TSP doesn't change erratically, just the pitch. When mixing its a non issue. It sounds solid without making any corrections. I can even mix non time code decks with it and not have to touch Sync or Phase. Just CUP and let go!
Vernetta Sulenski
29.04.2009
Originally Posted by JesC
I know of atleast 2 community members.
You can add one to that count
Mason Topolewski
29.04.2009		I have a feeling this won't be plugged any time soon. The difference between Traktor and Serato is that whilst Serato are keeping a very closed system in terms of what hardware you can use, NI are opting to allow other manufacturers to make Traktor Certified mixers and sound devices.

If they stop people from using anything other than the certified products, what happens when a manufacturer wants to release another certified product onto the market? NI would have to release a new version of TPro which enabled the scratch capabilities for the new hardware ID every time a new Traktor certified product is released.

In addition to this, now that the cat is out of the bag, and people are aware they can use pretty much any soundcard with the correct level inputs for timecode control, I suspect it would reflect badly on them if they were to plug this hole, as they would be seen as doing it purely to protect their own interests and profit margins. Fair enough, they're a company, that's what companies do, but I believe long-term, perhaps this is something they can use for them, rather than against them...

I kinda see Serato and Traktor as the Mac and PC of the DJ world - one is a very closed system, works only with it's own hardware and is pretty much plug and play (Serato/Mac). The other is much more open in the hardware it will work with, but because of this can take a great deal more time to get set up how you want it, and because it works with a multitude of different hardware configurations, sometimes things happen that the devs can't foresee at the testing phase, so strange things can sometimes happen (Traktor/PC). People get very passionate about which one is better, but in reality, they're just different ways of achieving the same thing. Personally, I'm a Traktor guy, but I play often on Serato systems, and love it for it's simplicity and intuitiveness - I figured out what was going on within 2 minutes of being on the decks, something I sometimes wish I could say of Traktor (I'm still figuring some things out with Pro).

The point I'm making here though is what sets Traktor apart from Serato is it's openness, and this ability to use any soundcard with it just enforces that. If NI were smart, they'd embrace this as an opportunity to sell more software, rather than a hole to plug.

Fus
Random X
29.04.2009		Just keeping an eye in here.

No word from Ean. So this one still goes as long as things are kept friendly in here!
Marshall Aby
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by JesC
I know of atleast 2 community members. And I see where ur going with this Lethal_P.
Do you? I'm not sure I am!
Cristian Carmona
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by lethal_pizzle
Mind you, there was a good point on owning the 'certified' gear for peace of mind. How many people own a Hackintosh?
I know of atleast 2 community members. And I see where ur going with this Lethal_P.
Marshall Aby
28.04.2009		Thinking about it, I still reckon NI will probably close this loophole. There are a few cracked copies of TSPro flying about, and if you can scrobble together a viable audio interface out of a few rubber bands and paper clips then NI will be getting zero $$$ for their product. It is in their financial interest to nix this one ASAP.

I believe it may perhaps be damaging to NI to leave it open anyway. Present company excepted, it appears to me that the technical knowledge of your average DJ isn't too great. The NI traktor community is full of people who don't understand beatgrids or cabling or OS optimisation or how to RTFM and blame the product. I believe this will still be the case when they can't aggregate devices or their pre-amps aren't very good or whatever.

Mind you, there was a good point on owning the 'certified' gear for peace of mind. How many people own a Hackintosh?
Aurelia Lenox
28.04.2009		Since this thread is getting a bit cluttered, anyone with a question regarding this setup is more than welcome to PM me. As for the full tutorial and vid, I'll post it in a new thread once I've finished editing it and squashing these last few bugs.

28.04.2009		If what you say is true then those people wouldn't buy it anyway.
Nick Ross
28.04.2009		Of course they do...look at the posts! Someone wrote that they have a setup for $70 now (or whatever the cost was)...

This is what I'm talking about...it's not going to end. People want their stuff for free, and they will continue to exploit products in order to do so.

28.04.2009		I can't believe that people honestly believe this is a viable alternative to having a Traktor certified soundcard or mixer.
Rebbecca Cornelsen
28.04.2009		I don't know if it is just where I shop for my stuff, but every version of Traktor Scratch I have ever seen already comes with an Audio8DJ or Audio4. I may be wrong, but the whole argument is moot if the software was legally purchased.
Nick Ross
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
I've said my piece Chilly. No one here is trying to rip NI off or committing any crimes, so how about you leave it or go somewhere where you don't have to read this stuff.
What color is the sky in your world?

28.04.2009		I've said my piece Chilly. No one here is trying to rip NI off or committing any crimes, so how about you leave it or go somewhere where you don't have to read this stuff.
Nick Ross
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
No one has suggested tampering with NI's software on this thread. I believe you are getting 'hacking' and 'cracking' confused. They are very different things.

Please don't let Chilly's hyperbole confuse you into believeing that anything illegal is happening. He spouts a lot of opinion as fact.




Yeah, but no one (apart from Chilly) has suggested contacting NI support. And he only suggested it to try and prove his point that people were doing something illegal/ethically questionable.



Absolutely, but no one in this thread has broken the law. Most of us are registered users and have been for years.

Certain community users have seen what is a fun little hack and interpreted that as people trying to swindle NI out of profit, and then proceeded to bang on about their misconception ad nauseum.
You really like calling me out, even in someone else's response, eh?

Only a lunatic would ever use this hack as a permanent setup or play out with it, as I said before, this is a bit of fun, not a threat to anyones favourite company.
Here's the issue with your statement. Isn't THAT an opinion that you are spouting as fact?

Hi Pot...I'm Kettle...have we met?
Nick Ross
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
Whaddya know, Chilly's being a pain in the arse again.



Chilly, if you have a problem with this thread and the topic of hacks and mods, I suggest you find another community . NI are perfectly capable of dealing with issues like this themselves, I'm sure they don't need you fighting their corner in your ra-ra skirt and pompoms.

Also, suggesting that someone's behaviour is 'kinda hypocritical' is pretty much tantamount to calling them a hypocrite.

Please lose the bad attitude, this community doesn't need what you bring to the NI board. Cheers.
Your suggestion has been filed with the Department of Consideration. I'll let you know how it goes.

You (generally speaking) have no issues sitting here and discussing topics on how bad it is to not pay for music, right?

So if someone posted a way to download music from Beatport for FREE, you'd probably get pretty upset.

That's how I feel.

Unfortunately for many of you, I make really good bank DJing, so I can afford to pay for my things. I don't need to worry about downloading cracked software or stealing music. But more importantly than that, I understand that the reason why I make my bankroll is because of the hard work that musical artists and hardware/software engineers have done. If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be doing what I do, or be as successful at it.

So when a company tells me that I need to have x, y, and z to make their product function correctly, I pony up. I don't look around to find a hack for their software / hardware / music. It's just not right.

If I buy a piece of hardware (let's say, a VCI-100), I own everything in that box. It is mine now. There are no prerequisites to get this thing working. If I want to add some buttons and stickers of butterflies and daisies, I will. If I want to put a new faceplate on it or change the knobs or put on jog wheel grips, guess what? I WILL. I am not enhancing any more of it's ability that isn't already accessible to me. I'm not circumventing some 'hack' or 'mod' process that Vestax has endorsed and said that I must use in order to accomplish an upgrade.

Why is it so difficult to understand these concepts?

So if that's me being a 'pain in the arse again', then so be it. I've got just as much right to post my opinion on here as you do. You can skip my posts, Jack Bastard (the second part of your name fits your perfectly I might add), if the truth is too much for you to stomach.

28.04.2009
Originally Posted by alien2k
1.- If you are going to do this by "hacking", "patching", or any "ing" word that involves tampering the software, there is no doubt that you are not using a good morale and you are harming NI. Everyone agrees on this pont I believe.
No one has suggested tampering with NI's software on this thread. I believe you are getting 'hacking' and 'cracking' confused. They are very different things.

Please don't let Chilly's hyperbole confuse you into believeing that anything illegal is happening. He spouts a lot of opinion as fact.


Originally Posted by alien2k
2.- If you are doing this by buying Traktor scratch or pro(As i did, I am using a legal, bought by myself copy of Traktor scratch) and you don
Mechelle Duncil
29.04.2009		Friends please don
Roberto Viccione
28.04.2009		I don't believe Chilly's problem is with mods in general, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Just poking my head in to make sure it all stays civil. Name calling, accusations and the whatnot can be kept to a minimum guys.

Much love

28.04.2009		Whaddya know, Chilly's being a pain in the arse again.



Chilly, if you have a problem with this thread and the topic of hacks and mods, I suggest you find another community . NI are perfectly capable of dealing with issues like this themselves, I'm sure they don't need you fighting their corner in your ra-ra skirt and pompoms.

Also, suggesting that someone's behaviour is 'kinda hypocritical' is pretty much tantamount to calling them a hypocrite.

Please lose the bad attitude, this community doesn't need what you bring to the NI board. Cheers.
Vinnie Tikka
28.04.2009		i feel like this is getting kind of ridiculous.

ctran, you're up to something great, so please keep on doing what you're doing.

and if NI feels like this is harm to them, they gonna fix it in the next update, and most probably they would have approached ean golden and asked him to shut down this thread already. because we all now a NI moderator reads this and NI got good links to ean.

that sounds as if NI bothers? no.

plus, as stated by various people above, i don't even believe NI wants to remove this option in future updates, cause all they say is like "hey, buy the CERTIFIED interface and you get the best performance". they didn't even say you NEED an audio8 to run it. and they still will be selling the software, which is their main business anyways.

also NI NEVER stated that using TSP with a non-certified interface is illegal.
the time codes are legally available everywhere.

on a side note, the vestax comparison was perfectly on point. if you just replace the buttons with arcade ones, you wouldn't call vestax support once you get problems with the soldering inside.


i for one can't really understand how a regular visitor of this community gets upset about 'hacks'


edit:
let me add this, on the topic:
i tried it on my macbook pro, didnt have turntables or cd players in my studio, so i just ripped the timecode from a friends cd, played it back from my studio computer, into the m-audio connectiv on my notebook, and it worked!
sorry, NI
Nick Ross
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by ctran
This workaround doesn't compete or infringe upon TSP customers with the Audio8, and I'd believe that it would encourage someone half-serious about giggin to purchase a certified soundcard.
Forgot to add...how would someone who downloads the demo to use your workaround accomplish this the timecode wavs?

Basically if you have, legally, Traktor timecode CD's or vinyl, then you must have a certified soundcard...right?

I mean, unless you're part of the small percentage of people who buy the timecode media just to get this 'hack' working.
Nick Ross
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by ctran
Not too how this is hypocritical, or if you're totally clear about your argument. I wouldn't be calling up Vestax if my arcade-button modded VCI-100 was acting strange. Nor have I expressed any desire to pester NI about a setup that, at best, would only be decent imitation of the retail setup.

This workaround doesn't compete or infringe upon TSP customers with the Audio8, and I'd believe that it would encourage someone half-serious about giggin to purchase a certified soundcard. So really, I'd just like to understand why you're so offended about this, to the point of posting snarky replies and calling me a hypocrite, when this thread and community in general are just about sharing info.
If you can point me to where I specifically called you a hypocrite, that would be appreciated.

The product is made to work with a certified soundcard for timecode use. You are circumventing that process.

I'm at a loss as to why it's so difficult to understand why I'm offended. Your Vestax example isn't nearly the same. You are replacing hardware to do the same thing - you aren't enabling additional functionality that you would otherwise have to pay for. Vestax hasn't stated 'if you want to mod your vci-100, then you can only use these certified mods'.

If NI had intended for people to try timecode out before buying it, then it would be stated. Since it's not, go to a store and try it; look at videos; ask around. Or just order it and return it if it doesn't do what you want.

Again I will state the following: if people are in this thread discussing how they are having issues with this, and you don't believe you're doing anything wrong, then call NI's support team to help you.
Aurelia Lenox
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by charo
If i had to guess i would say that the setup in question is adding it's own flare.
Oh yeah, I would never blame the Technics . I'll probably solve it whenever I figure out whatever buffer/sample rate issue in CoreAudio is causing the other problem.

Originally Posted by Chilly
Semantics.
The funny thing is that many of you believe that there's no harm in this, yet you won't approach NI to help with your issues.

Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.
Not too sure how this is hypocritical, or if you're totally clear about your argument. I wouldn't be calling up Vestax if my arcade-button modded VCI-100 was acting strange. Nor have I expressed any desire to pester NI about a setup that, at best, would only be decent imitation of the retail setup.

This workaround doesn't compete or infringe upon TSP customers with the Audio8, and I'd believe that it would encourage someone half-serious about giggin to purchase a certified soundcard. So really, I'd just like to understand why you're so offended about this, to the point of posting snarky replies and calling me a hypocrite, when this thread and community in general are just about sharing info.
juan garcia
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by alien2k
Isn
Nick Ross
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by ctran
Seriously dude, chill . I'm not endorsing a crack or stealing money from NI or anything, just a legit workaround for the demo for people who want to try out timecode without the requisite expensive soundcard.
Semantics.

And I'm chill.

The funny thing is that many of you believe that there's no harm in this, yet you won't approach NI to help with your issues.

Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.
Aurelia Lenox
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by Chilly
Yeah, can you believe it? So strange...maybe you should open a ticket with NI for this issue?
Seriously dude, chill . I'm not endorsing a crack or stealing money from NI or anything, just a legit workaround for the demo for people who want to try out timecode without the requisite expensive soundcard.

Originally Posted by BentoSan
Sounds like an A/D coverter issue - you actually need fairly decent A/D converters to get a decent timecode signal.
I thought that at first, but I've run the signal through some pretty low-quality boxes at this point (including the Macbook's line-in, heh) and when the signal's poor, it usually just skips a lot or doesn't recognize it as timecode at all.

Originally Posted by alien2k
Isn
Mechelle Duncil
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by ctran

The only other minor thing is that when it's playing normally, the pitch keeps jumping between -0.1%, 0%, and +0.1%. Do normal TSP users experience that too?
Isn
Nick Ross
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by ctran
No kidding? The audio hardware that was bundled & specifically made for this software works just fine? Please tell me more, I feel like you might be steering us in the right direction.
Yeah, can you believe it? So strange...maybe you should open a ticket with NI for this issue?
Aurelia Lenox
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by Chilly
Wow that's weird...cuz when I use my Audio8 I don't have any of those issues. At all.
No kidding? The audio hardware that was bundled & specifically made for this software works just fine? Please tell me more, I feel like you might be steering us in the right direction.
Nick Ross
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by ctran
Update on the Behringer U-Phonos:

Despite not being rated as "low latency" devices, these little things work fantastically as timecode inputs. After I aggregate two of them together, they're stable and responsive in the TSP 1.1.2 Demo w/ 10.5ms delay at 48khz. My aggregate device consists of:

U-Phono #1 L/R Inputs
U-Phono #2 L/R Inputs
Macbook L/R Outputs
DJ/IO L/R Outputs

Basically a 4in/4out that made for less than $75. There is only one big caveat: TSP doesn't seem to like it when I switch between relative/absolute mode -- if I do so, the timecode control starts lagging and distorting. Otherwise, if I just leave it in either mode, it works solid.

The only other minor thing is that when it's playing normally, the pitch keeps jumping between -0.1%, 0%, and +0.1%. Do normal TSP users experience that too?
Wow that's weird...cuz when I use my Audio8 I don't have any of those issues. At all.
Xavier Emanuels
28.04.2009
Originally Posted by ctran
The only other minor thing is that when it's playing normally, the pitch keeps jumping between -0.1%, 0%, and +0.1%. Do normal TSP users experience that too?
Sounds like an A/D coverter issue - you actually need fairly decent A/D converters to get a decent timecode signal.
Aurelia Lenox
28.04.2009		Update on the Behringer U-Phonos:

Despite not being rated as "low latency" devices, these little things work fantastically as timecode inputs. After I aggregate two of them together, they're stable and responsive in the TSP 1.1.2 Demo w/ 10.5ms delay at 48khz. My aggregate device consists of:

U-Phono #1 L/R Inputs
U-Phono #2 L/R Inputs
Macbook L/R Outputs
DJ/IO L/R Outputs

Basically a 4in/4out that made for less than $75. There is only one big caveat: TSP doesn't seem to like it when I switch between relative/absolute mode -- if I do so, the timecode control starts lagging and distorting. Otherwise, if I just leave it in either mode, it works solid.

The only other minor thing is that when it's playing normally, the pitch keeps jumping between -0.1%, 0%, and +0.1%. Do normal TSP users experience that too?
Adolf Hit
27.04.2009
Originally Posted by alien2k
I am not sure if this is going to be the case (I may be wrong) but I believe they have known this from the begining and that is why there are certain certifyed mixers and interfaces for Traktor scratch. I am sure that their first answer to a support request for different harwdare will be that it is not cerifyed for Traktor Scratch. Anyways why patch it? the most probable thing is that most of people will end up buying an Audio 4/8 beacauase there is no doubt that is ideal for traktor.

Im with you on this one, Ive been wondering about this for ages after seeing the Xone 4d article on skratchworks, (I only read this thread for the first time today), but when TScratch Pro came out is was remarked many times over that it does not use the audio 8 as a dongle. Not much in the interface of the settings suggests any kind of hard ware detection, weather it be for allowing the software to run, or for simply preventing DVS without the appropriate hardware.


When you look through all their promotional material it never explicitly states that you need a certified interface for it to work, it just says they are certified by NI as being to their standards of performance.
Keli Vandenbergh
26.04.2009		...
The first and the last...

...
Jansen Brown
26.04.2009		Your post won't be up long buddy. No posting links to cracked software or anything of the likes.
Brunilda Kora
25.04.2009		Can any other timecode vinyl be used with TS???
Jansen Brown
20.04.2009		The TSP timecode sounds like square waves. In either case couldn't the signal from the HDDJ be coded in Max/Msp or similar to be used with timecode?

That would be amazing.

http://www.instructables.com/id/SGYDWQYFN82OEN2/
Xavier Emanuels
20.04.2009		The timecode is signal is a stereo signal so you cant just run it in mono otherwise it wouldnt work.

From memory it looked to me like 2 sine wav oscilators running at the same frequency as once another, panned to the left and right channels, with one of the channels being slightly out of phase to the other channel.
Mechelle Duncil
20.04.2009		Don't worry mate your question is far from stupid. And I am sure that I know nothing compare to some guys here, so I consider myself of the stupid guys

As a matter of fact I questioned myself about the same thing and already tested it and it did not worked for me, the visual representation of the timecode signal just showed a vertical or horizontal line and the message was something as media not recognized. Conclusion> Needs to be stereo

BTW there is nothig bad about questioning yourself how to get the most from your gear. I don't know if you alredy done this, but I use a external mixer so I don't need the phone line in placed infront of the audiophile, so I use it as a extra line out (it is stereo and great quality) for traktor. Just route the desired deck output to your SPDIF out and then on the m-audio software assign it to be monitored by your phones(extra stereo line out for your mixer).

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