Most DJs suck?
Most DJs suck? Posted on: 01.10.2012 by Valeri Holderness Before you read this: by writing this I’m not saying that I’m some super crazy DJ, I still have a lot to learn myself. This is just something I’ve felt for a long time and I’d like to get some insight on how other people feel about this. Also, I’m talking mostly about club djing here.edit: after some discussion, i realized the thread title was a little misleading. just because a dj isn't technical doesn't make them a bad dj, and thats not what I'm going for here I got a chance to see dj spinbad and dj starting from scratch over the weekend (they played a set at a Russell Peters show). Their set was AMAZING and blew my mind. They were doing something truly artistic and were essentially making something new on stage. Slick cuts, juggling, acapellas, etc. It made me believe, why isn’t the standard for djs a little bit higher? Why aren’t big touring djs and resident djs expected to put some skill into what they do? Overall, I believe its safe to say that the majority of djs don’t really engage in the technical aspects of djing; they don’t necessarily “make” something new, they often just beat match between two tunes and call it a day. Some people like to pat themselves on the back for beatmatching, phase matching, phrase matching, etc. but as A-trak said: no one ever complimented a dj on how artistically they beat match. Spending a week learning basic beat matching and having an interest in a specific genre of music (which is something virtually something everyone has) is basically enough to make a mix that would be considered “acceptable”. I find that a lot of djs just reach this acceptable level and then don't feel the need to learn beyond that. Does anyone else see a problem with this? Everyone complains about aoki, guetta, etc. jut hitting play, but how many regular djs do anything more than that? Along with this, its almost become the standard for people to believe of djs as “record player players”. I was reading the paper this morning and the review of the show stated “also appearing was DJ Sarting from Scratch and DJ Spinbad but neither brought much to the evening as canned music would have easily filled the same role”. After perhaps dj craze, these guys played the craziest set I’ve seen in my life. Tonnes of live mashes, cutting etc. between each other all by ear. They were incredibly technical and not messy in the slightest. Also they were about 20 feet away from eachother so they couldn’t communicate or screen peak. Because we’ve set the standard so low, DJs who are actually talented don’t get the props they deserve. Because the majority of DJs themselves are ok with being at the "acceptable" level (and don't strive to do anything necessarily creative), people don't seem to make a distinction between a quality dj and your average joe. sorry for the novel, just something I wanted to discuss here opinions? | |
| Lina Rawie 04.10.2012 | How do the people who can't do any technical stuff - scratching, for example - know what reaction it would get at gigs? Sometimes when I scratched at gigs, people would cheer. Sometimes a bunch of people would rush the DJ box to come and watch. Sometimes people would come and talk to me to ask about scratching. But nobody cares, right? I should only do what the majority appreciates, which means taking no risks musically or technically whatsoever. Yeah, that sounds very rewarding! Why even bother mixing? Just take an iPod loaded up with the latest hits. Nobody cares about technical stuff like mixing! It's just the music that matters! |
| Darren Teboe 04.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJSigma
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| Darren Teboe 04.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Woah
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| Darren Teboe 04.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Era 7
again... see my earlier post as to why it's vital to also inspire and entertain that small minority. |
| Lina Rawie 04.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
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| Ming Devis 03.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by enorjy
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| Devora Chait 03.10.2012 | I generally use cdj's and a mixer. When I mix a track in I generally press play at the right moment, beatmatch, bring it in if it' s timed properly, EQ and mix to the track slowly. Rarely do I use loops, samples, cue points or any of that and I've NEVER received anything but positive feedback. I do however listen to the music, look at the vibe around me, the crowd and believe about what next track will be best fitting. In my opinion those tricks and doodles don't really add much or anything at all most of the time, which is why for me controllers would be useless. I believe it' s cool to see someone do that kind of stuff but I' m a DJ myself. Does the average person who goes out to dance to good music? Hell no. A DJ isn' t a performer, or an artist, it's someone who is good at controlling vibes and moods at party' s and try's to make some damn special moments. Not by using insane controllerism tricks and skills, but by doing the right things at the right moment. |
| Rochel Papillion 03.10.2012 | only having great track selection results in this |
| Tesha Freudenstein 03.10.2012 | the thing is that most people that notice something like this are DJs themselves which again is the minority of people going to the shows. most people have no damn clue what you are doing. most people just want to enjoy some choons, dance, whatever. not saying that this should be a motivation to be lazy though. |
| Lashawn Maycock 03.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
Sorry I couldn't help myself Too tempting to respond, not an attack on your comment ksandvik, just trying to add a vaguely amusing interlude.... carry on.... |
| Cole Maroto 03.10.2012 | i was believeing about this a bit more and i wanted to go further into something i touched on in my earlier posts. the best musicians and djs i can believe of know how to utilize the breadth of their knowledge at the proper times. they know when to push the boundaries and when to play it safe. they know that there is a time to let the beast out of the cage and a time to rein it in, allowing the music space to breathe. to me this lends context to the more advanced techniques and gives the music various dimensions that i really enjoy. |
| Ming Devis 02.10.2012 | I like DJ's that play good music |
| Celine Surico 02.10.2012 | Most DJs should learn to become entertainers which is the key thing when up on stage, anyway. |
| Darren Teboe 02.10.2012 | I believe another point of contention (which is correct to a point) is how only DJ's appreciate all the "skill". For the most part, it is right. 90% of the people don't need, want, or care about all the bells and whistles of what a DJ can add beyond basic mixing of great music. Where I believe a lot of people are missing the importance is the few who feel extremely passionate about the creativity. Look at it like this... Part of the reason we a lot of us are here right now is because someone inspired us by doing something that made us go "whoa". That's the creativity and inspiration that propels the FEW, who are likely to push the boundaries and break the mold. If someone didn't do something new that was "crazy" that didn't sound good to most, the Roland TB-303 might never have been used to make acid house, which was one of the foundations of the summer of love. To wish for more "skill" from DJ's, is only to wish for more inspiration from our peers. I believe interviews with guys at the top of their game (like A-Trak) speak to this when they complain about how there is a lot of new guys who play it too safe, to paraphrase him. |
| Jerica Salava 02.10.2012 | just play some good danceable tunes and don't pretend you play guitar. |
| Darren Teboe 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Maxted
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| Darren Teboe 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Timbo21
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| Darlene Strohbeck 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by 3heads
I've even met some people that said "I don't beatgrid in traktor or use the Sync feature, because it's cheating and I want to keep my skills sharp"...And I always find that foolish, because while it may be "cheating" in a way, it frees up your hands to do other things like sampling, cue point juggling, looping, and even scratching. And as robust as Digital DJ software is, it's such a waste to not use any of the "additional" features. It's almost like saying you'd prefer to wash your laundry by hand, so you don't forget how to do it. Plus for me, beatmatching is like riding a bike. That being said, I've been just as impressed with people that use their digital DJ software to the fullest, like some people on here do. I came on here because I was first discovering controllerism after using vinyl and CDJ's for so long, and thought it was amazing. Girl Talk is a perfect example of an artist that I appreciate like any top turntablist, because I believe it takes serious talent to take a bunch of clips from different songs and mix them up like they were made to be like that. In terms of DJ's that just do straight up mixing and track selection, I feel like they're at the bottom of the totem pole. I'm actually not far from that, in fact I'm very close to it, and maybe that's why it's turntablists are so revered for me, because I'd love to do it, and sometimes I'm not even sure if I ever could. Same with controllerism, or finger drumming, sometimes I wonder if I have the rhythm for it. |
| Brunilda Kora 02.10.2012 | That was a cool article. Love the high-wire comparison - DJ'ing with a net... |
| Valeri Holderness 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by djfil007
also i believe a lot of people are misunderstanding what i'm trying to say. song selections is by far the most important aspect of djing and i'm not downplaying that. however, i find that a lot of djs don't go beyond developing song selection. they don't make the effort to learn any technical skills. A lot of newer djs make a mess when trying to be technical (which is ok, its the same way with any other instrument when you first start). But I do believe that if we want to push djing as an art and if we want people to understand the difference between a solid dj and an aoki, then regular djs need to start "playing with the songs", rather than playing songs (as said by z trip). i believe this is a solid article on the issue http://www.inthemix.com.au/features/...ack_the_danger |
| Audrey Pinda 02.10.2012 | You know? This is a really interesting topic, and I actually did spend the time and read through all of the pages. This is something near and dear to my heart, and something I constantly talk about with my friends who are also quite into the EDM scene. I've been going to shows for over 11 years now (since I was 16, I'm 27 now). And seeing so many artists, DJ's, and performances... it's enlightening to a degree. It's also shaped how I've wanted to spin, and do spin, differently than how some of my friends do. There is beauty in telling a story. That is the crux of it I feel. What do YOU want the audience to feel, to understand, to groove, to funk to? What is the overall message you are trying to convey? Are you trying to bring them up for an intense moment, or bring them down into a mindless trance? I like to use the metaphor of the ocean, having high and low tides, but constantly moving, with waves crashing against the shore. Is this something you believe about? Or are you just about showcasing yourself and the tracks you are playing, over and over? I'll be honest and say, I look at a DJ such as Dieselboy as inspiration. Who has been doing it for long time, and who's mixes I used to be incredibly excited to buy at the local store (and still take every chance to see live, and follow on soundcloud with a vengeance). What was it about those mixes? Why did I really love them, even though I didn't get to see exactly what he was doing to pick it apart technically? Not only is it killer selection, but it's also building those peaks and valleys of emotion, and bringing you along for the ride. I constantly listen to mixes from other DJ |
| Brunilda Kora 02.10.2012 | Listen - I get the distinct feeling that there's some turntablist bashing going on here. "Yeah they can scratch, but they're programming sucks!" I keep hearing. If Jazzy Jeff, or Spinbad, or A-Trak are playing, shall we say, "poorly" selected tracks - it's because they have taken 1 look at the crowd (not "read the crowd", or "planned to take 'em on a journey", just taken a cursory GLANCE), and relised that 90% of them are idiots that wont know any Roots, Diamond D, Das-EFX, etc... So they have to throw on Gin n' Juice so that these idiots can feel like a part of the event ("Hey! I know this song! Aren't I cool!!!!") Track selection, understanding the crowd, programming a set - it all comes natuarrly with time. The "blow you away" skills take 1000's of hours of hard,dedictaed, focused practice. You can't compare one with the other. You can build up to a massive crecsendo (take the crowd on a 5 tune "journey" leading up to a fuckin' HUGE TUNE) doing A>B mixing, or even quick cuts. But throw in a juggle routine immediately prior to that crescendo and you've got a room full of people bouncing up and down with the hairs on the back of their necks standing on end! (Don't you DARE spoil it by sticking a flanger over the first 8 bars!!!!! ) Demand MORE of yourself as a DJ. |
| Judi Sissel 02.10.2012 | The constant(s) in threads of this sort have always been the DJ (you) and the music (what you play). Everything else is an uncontrollable variable. Wouldn't it just be a whole lot easier to just "be the best DJ 'YOU' can be". The more you know the better off you'll be. I know that sounds kinda childish, but IMO the DJ's worst enemy is himself and other DJ's. |
| Arlinda Finazzo 02.10.2012 | Most of the time I pay to go see a big DJ, it's more because they're good producers\remixers that I go to hear in the big venue environment... and not because of live mixing/mashups/etc skills. I do like it when they bring fresh material... but honestly I am going for the experince of seeing them live (the sound system, the lighting/video, the experience with the crowd, dancing, etc). I did go and see DJ Shiftee reciently... and he was more to see the DMC skills that he brings, as I'm not at all a fan of dubstep (which is mostly what he plays). Unfortunately he only showed off his DJC (scratch, juggling, etc) skills for about 10 minutes... then it was a pretty generic (boring) dubstep set after that. So maybe for me it's just because the type of music that I going out to the club\event for, that I'm not really concerned about seeing technical DJ skills rather then just someone who knows how to play to the crowd (see Armin van Buuren's interview... he hits it right on the head). Off topic: was there another comedian opener before Russel, or just his DJs? I'm getting to see Russel Peters this Friday. Looking forward to the show... and I'll totally make sure to pay attention to his DJs. |
| Santina Klarner 02.10.2012 | In my opnion, i believe it's mostly about what a dj knows about his or her music and how he or she puts them "together". For example, the key or the intensity of songs. I've come across alot of people who say djing is easy :/ because they all believe "we press play". But in reality, it actually takes alot of hard work and dedication to turn an ordinary song/songs, into n insetnse remix or set |
| Jerica Salava 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by zimfella
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| Celine Surico 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by 3heads
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| Celestine Porebski 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Maxted
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| Celestine Porebski 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
Sometimes on Facebook I see DJ friends posting up vids with the caption "killer track!" and when I hear it the only word that comes to mind is "monotonous".
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| Melinda Shick 02.10.2012 | Track Selection, Track Selection, Track Selection! I don't give a shit about "skills" (within reason, we don't want horses galloping all over the place), i'd rather hear someone fade in/fade out some brilliant tunes that reflect their musical love, than hear somebody mix flawlessly a bunch of dull music selected purely because it mixes well. |
| Edwardo Rothenberger 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Abyrne7
When House music came about there was a whole mystery surrounding the music, for me anyway. I didn't know who was making these amazing tracks. They weren't artists in the traditional sense. Many tracks were on promo, etc. So this mystique grew around the Dj's who initially were the main access point. But at the end of the day, they are playing other peoples music. |
| Darlene Strohbeck 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by zimfella
I actually stopped going to shows because I couldn't stand what DJ's were playing, no matter how big/small they were. You might ask who I believe has awesome track selection, and I would say myself and that's neither accurate nor inaccurate. And judging from your post you probably feel the same. Sometimes on Facebook I see DJ friends posting up vids with the caption "killer track!" and when I hear it the only word that comes to mind is "monotonous". |
| Darlene Strohbeck 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by firebr4nd
A DJ that simply selects tracks and mixes them is like an artist that only uses one medium. But when you throw in scratching, beat juggling, etc. etc. you're talking about an artist that not only draws, but paints, sculpts, etc. |
| Darlene Strohbeck 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by firebr4nd
ie: I'm a XX DJ, therefore I don't need to know those skills. I know I do. I'm a working DJ, so when I look at some of the more successful working DJ's in this city, it reminds me that scratching, beat juggling, or even "skills" aren't a pre-requisite to making a full time income. |
| Mac Fly 03.10.2012 | Exactly what everyone else said. Alot of the time a pile of button mashing wont get a crowd moving and sometimes sounds awful. Sure, theres skill involved but if you try to do too much at your local venue or bar which most DJs are then the dancefloor often won't react. Not to mention you have to let tracks build and play out to create a mood. Another reason is... DJ'ing is relatively not that hard compared to other musical instruments, especially with todays technology, but even 10 years ago it still really wasnt that hard of a task. If your not producing music or known for being an innovator then your just a DJ and you just mix other peoples music, end of story. |
| Edwardo Rothenberger 03.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
There used to be a lot of Dj's who were being payed a lot of money a while ago who were more or less talentless in the studio. They hooked up with good engineers. Eg, Paul Oakenfold with Steve Osborne. Sasha had an engineer he worked with Tom Fredrikse who did it all in the early 90's. Sasha was completely relying on him. He may be able to do stuff now, but he was taking the credit for someone else's work in the beginning. That's Dj's for you. It's not what you know, it's who you know. This is never truer than in the Dj world. |
03.10.2012 | If I want to go on a journey I'll take a bus. |
| Darren Teboe 03.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdubs
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| Darlene Strohbeck 03.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
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| Lashawn Maycock 02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdubs
EDIT: I'd be bored to tears if I went to see someone DJ, only for them to play a set of their own productions, I could put their mix album on for that. |
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