Most DJs suck?
Most DJs suck? Posted on: 01.10.2012 by Valeri Holderness Before you read this: by writing this I’m not saying that I’m some super crazy DJ, I still have a lot to learn myself. This is just something I’ve felt for a long time and I’d like to get some insight on how other people feel about this. Also, I’m talking mostly about club djing here.edit: after some discussion, i realized the thread title was a little misleading. just because a dj isn't technical doesn't make them a bad dj, and thats not what I'm going for here I got a chance to see dj spinbad and dj starting from scratch over the weekend (they played a set at a Russell Peters show). Their set was AMAZING and blew my mind. They were doing something truly artistic and were essentially making something new on stage. Slick cuts, juggling, acapellas, etc. It made me believe, why isn’t the standard for djs a little bit higher? Why aren’t big touring djs and resident djs expected to put some skill into what they do? Overall, I believe its safe to say that the majority of djs don’t really engage in the technical aspects of djing; they don’t necessarily “make” something new, they often just beat match between two tunes and call it a day. Some people like to pat themselves on the back for beatmatching, phase matching, phrase matching, etc. but as A-trak said: no one ever complimented a dj on how artistically they beat match. Spending a week learning basic beat matching and having an interest in a specific genre of music (which is something virtually something everyone has) is basically enough to make a mix that would be considered “acceptable”. I find that a lot of djs just reach this acceptable level and then don't feel the need to learn beyond that. Does anyone else see a problem with this? Everyone complains about aoki, guetta, etc. jut hitting play, but how many regular djs do anything more than that? Along with this, its almost become the standard for people to believe of djs as “record player players”. I was reading the paper this morning and the review of the show stated “also appearing was DJ Sarting from Scratch and DJ Spinbad but neither brought much to the evening as canned music would have easily filled the same role”. After perhaps dj craze, these guys played the craziest set I’ve seen in my life. Tonnes of live mashes, cutting etc. between each other all by ear. They were incredibly technical and not messy in the slightest. Also they were about 20 feet away from eachother so they couldn’t communicate or screen peak. Because we’ve set the standard so low, DJs who are actually talented don’t get the props they deserve. Because the majority of DJs themselves are ok with being at the "acceptable" level (and don't strive to do anything necessarily creative), people don't seem to make a distinction between a quality dj and your average joe. sorry for the novel, just something I wanted to discuss here opinions? | |
| Rochel Papillion 16.10.2012 | Isn there an unwritten rule that whatever you do, you better have girls dancing on the floor, and the best way to do tha tis with songs with lyrics , that they might know |
| Celine Surico 16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Patch
It wouldn't be hard to have a drop down in Pandora with a list of DJ's that would determine what music gets played...[/QUOTE] It is true of established DJ/producers, but for most unknown DJs they crowd really does not have any other expectations than having a good time. And using a pre-defined playlist in such cases is pretty much close to clearing the floors in case the establishment does not like tech house, deep house, dubstep, trance, nu-disco and so on and so on. In other words, if you are no established producer/DJ with a certain style and reputation and you are just doing gigs, you better learn to read the crowds, quickly. PS: Reading crowds is 100x more important than beatmatching/sync, controllerism tricks and so on. |
| Brunilda Kora 16.10.2012 | [qute="ksandvik"]I have yet to see a Pandora-like application that predicts the taste and interest of an arbitrary human crowd...[/quote] How many DJ's play to "arbitrary" crowds? Most crowds make up their mind as to what music they're gonna hear by choosing the DJ that they're going to listen to... It wouldn't be hard to have a drop down in Pandora with a list of DJ's that would determine what music gets played... |
| Rochel Papillion 16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
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| Devora Chait 16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJSigma
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| Celine Surico 16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
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| Janyce Henningson 16.10.2012 | 28459143.jpg |
| Lina Rawie 16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Woah
It's like music itself. Something goes mainstream and it gets watered down to this formulaic "you only need to do this and this" blueprint, then you end up with the kind of drivel that's filling up the top 40 - horrible mainstream rap records and God-awful cheesy EDM abominations. Some people are the DJ equivalent of that. |
| Devora Chait 16.10.2012 | Funny how some people get "extremely aggravated" at such issues. Haha, get a life. Technology might let you pre-mix your tracks but that's besides the point it it. The key is to read the crowd and predict what they will enjoy the most, then pick your next track based on that and mix it in a good and pleasing way. Be it effects, a slow blend, or something else, it doesn't matter. |
| Rochel Papillion 16.10.2012 | I believe some of you guys give too much respect to producers and their tracks. Producers are disrespecting the craft of djing and all you do is argue bout it. |
| Darren Teboe 16.10.2012 | What's funny is these fools who are just happy with smooth mixing and great tracks. Guess what. The technology gives you the ability to create smooth mixes and eliminates the need for a DJ. Everything can be done before the actual DJing part. Guys who really understand the big picture understand that they can spend just a little time researching a gig, and have a spot on set programmed well in advance. After that, just program the software to mix it for you. BOOM you have great track selection and smooth mixing. You have just become an inefficient version of iTunes Genius feature or Pandora. What makes a DJ more valuable than software? Constant creativity. Part of the reason ANY of us are here doing what we do as DJ's, or enjoying some of the things that are done today is because people PUSHED THE ENVELOPE with what DJing was. I honestly can't believe people are so fucking blind. One part of me gets extremely aggravated. Then the other part of me recognizes that after the coolness of it all is gone, the people who give mediocrity momentum in EDM will vanish just as quick. I can't wait for that day to come some times. Quality control was at a much higher level 20 years ago. |
| Lina Rawie 17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Xonetactular
Why are there so many into this scene now that have no passion for the craft? Where did it go wrong? |
| Blanch Velardi 17.10.2012 | [QUOTE=Maxted;535184]Track Selection, Track Selection, Track Selection! I have been DJing since 1970 when all I used was vinyl, now I use Laptop, controller full PA mixing gear plus equaliser and active speakers. I am mostly mobile and my work mainly from word of mouth. Clients like what I do or thet wouldn`t book me. I play all type of music from 1960 to present and I supply a music variation that people enjoy. I was booked for a charity event recently and I was to play 2 hours and a young DJ was due to play a further 1 hour. I had a very good audience that like "feel good" music and were dancing quite happily, my set finished and the young DJ started and was playing techno, house etc. IT WENT COMPLETELY DEAD. I was asked to return to the set. What more can I say, you play to your audiences preferences. |
| Romelia Stankard 17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
Originally Posted by sobi
Just look at people like laidback luke in the past few years- he plays all the same bland shitty music as the rest of the festival headliners he just mixes it more creatively. His sets are just as intolerable as the rest of them. |
| Celine Surico 17.10.2012 | Yes I was watching the Ibiza 2012 public DJ shows on AXS TV and a large part of the DJs playing for this 50k+ crowd was effects and breakups, over and over. Kind of missed the dance music beats.... |
| Malia Janise 16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
Dude's got crazy skills, but to me it's just a showcase, not something I want to listen to like I would other music. |
| Vicki Bortnem 16.10.2012 | There's nothing wrong with a bit of old school beat matching, but I completely get the deal with wanting to expand and make something new on the fly - for us small timers there's no easy way to get into that unless we have access to stems or produce our own stuff, and even then we're lucky to the get the kind of gig where we can play it; we have t0 be ready to play whatever kind of shit people want sometimes. I'm trying to make a balance between improv in Live and just mixing tracks from Traktor - seems to make a good combination for this level of DJing |
| Hanna Ridenbaugh 16.10.2012 | ^this, how many dj booths are there where people can actually see what your doing? A mash up might sound great, but if people can't see you perform it do they care or even know what's going on. Sad fact. |
| Belinda Hargate 16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by zimfella
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| Ming Devis 16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
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| Valeri Holderness 16.10.2012 | Theres lots of good points, but people keeping saying "destroying the tracks with effects", "over using effects", etc. I believe being technical means using effects as needed, any monkey can flanger a track to death, but using effects in a way that adds on (ex. i often apply a bit of beat masher or delay on acapella samples that i toss on top of tracks) can really add another element to your set. in general, i meant being technical as in making something new via multi deck mixing, mash ups, scratching, etc., not just hitting flanger randomly. its sort of a straw man argument to equate good technical djing to guys who use a stupid amount of effects. |
| Ming Devis 16.10.2012 | haha what oliosky said I don't see music as bland. You can use songs to bring different 'flavours' to the mix. You don't need to use FX's if the music is good enough, it doesn't need screwing with. But seriously keeping with the flavours theme its obvious that people have 'tastes', sure there are are lazy DJ's who just play half chewed lamb chop's but there are tones of DJ's that dig hard and serve up big juicy scotch fillets |
| Johnetta Olewine 16.10.2012 | Sometimes the steak can be so good that it doesn't need anything else. Plain unadulterated perfect steak after plain perfect steak all evening long. |
| Darren Teboe 15.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
If you cook a steak, it's not going to be reviewed well if it's bland (a-b mixing) or over seasoned (too many tricks). |
| Rochel Papillion 15.10.2012 | One of my favs showcasing what is bringing a little more to the party Atrak |
| Malia Janise 15.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
I personally have no interest in scratching. Ever. But I agree in that it's good that I at least know it exists, why it exists, etc. |
| Rochel Papillion 15.10.2012 | Again, I wouldn't say to a DJ "you have to beatmatch manually live". I definitely believe it's worth learning that skill though, so that you can play on any gear
you're faced with, you can DJ back to back with another DJ who is using a separate setup, and you might find it a fun way to mix. Once you've learned it, you can choose how you beatmatch - manually or by computer - instead of using autosync as a crutch. It's not about forcing DJs to do things the "hard" way, or take the longest route from A to B. It's about having some passion to learn the all round craft of DJing. It makes you versatile. It means you can satisfy the guy that says "I don't care if the DJ just slams from track to track as long as the tunes are good" and the guy that says "I like it when I hear a DJ going that extra mile and mixing in an interesting way". This shit doesn't have to be a choice of A or B. When you are well-rounded you can do it all.[/QUOTE] I wasn't believeing of autosync when wrote this but more so of djs that dont even use headphones and dont use auto sync( CRAZE,Angello, Nicky Romero). After a while, you will just know your songs . the mashup thing I wasnt talking about DJing in general but more one aspect of the "technical stuff". but yeah. Its weird how people keep saying the same thing over n over. first group is saying good song selection is good and can be great, then the second one is saying that it is great but it wouldnt hurt to bring a little spice on the menu, and then the first group says but putting too much ingredients is overdoing it when the first group never said you have to overdo it, just add some damm spice in your bag for if you ever feel like it might ever be needed. I was |
| Ming Devis 15.10.2012 | I agree with that ^ But that isn't the original debate. It was that A - B mixing with no effects or scratching is not good enough. The argument against this is that it is a skill in it's own right and can be exactly what is needed to do the job well. |
| Clotilde Dahlman 15.10.2012 | Can't we just say that in order to become a great dj you must have a rounded set of skills that span most genres and that that dj would be comfortable in any situation and still rock the party?? |
| Ming Devis 15.10.2012 | If I was to make a criteria for a good DJ it would be - 1. Get the dance floor moving and take people on a journey Either by just mixing A - B and using great tracks or Adding effects if the set is screaming for it or Scratching and Juggling if you are playing at a hip hop evening Its good to have all round skills but I just don't see A - B mixing as being a bad thing people discrediting it just don't appreciate track selection enough as a skill. |
| Ming Devis 15.10.2012 | True they aren't the only choices but basic blends isn't the same as ruining a track if the track selection and flow is great. |
| Lina Rawie 15.10.2012 | Why is almost every rebuttal the same false dichotomy? These are not your only choices you know: - A. Just do basic blends. B. Ruin your mixing by using way too many effects, loops, scratching etc. |
| Ming Devis 15.10.2012 | Sure its good to learn it all so you can do technical stuff if you need to BUT - the way I read the original post is that it's not good enough to dig for amazing tunes and blend them. I've seen amazing DJ's destroy clubs by picking amazing productions and letting them shine and if they had scratched or smashed them with a million effects it would have cheapened the experience. If every house/techno DJ mixed like James Zabiela or Ritchie Hawtin it would be over kill. |
| Inez Marcinik 15.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJSigma
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| Lina Rawie 15.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by enorjy
Originally Posted by enorjy
It's not about forcing DJs to do things the "hard" way, or take the longest route from A to B. It's about having some passion to learn the all round craft of DJing. It makes you versatile. It means you can satisfy the guy that says "I don't care if the DJ just slams from track to track as long as the tunes are good" and the guy that says "I like it when I hear a DJ going that extra mile and mixing in an interesting way". This shit doesn't have to be a choice of A or B. When you are well-rounded you can do it all. |
| Rochel Papillion 15.10.2012 | To make a case for what sobi says, I used to believe that mashups were mixed live, so I learned to do em on my setup. But then I realized that they sounded the same when producers/djs played them. SO in essence it is not always live even though it can be done live (same with song edits). And mashups , if the diff songs are good match can be interpreted so many different ways. plus, if a dj knows its songs, after a while, does it really take that long to beatmatch? |
| Lina Rawie 15.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
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| Darren Teboe 15.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by HighTopFade
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| Darren Teboe 15.10.2012 | I have to say though... this thread is sort of ridiculous. We shouldn't be surprised that people don't get it. It's the reason guys like SHM, Guetta, and others festival headliners (read producers) can get away with faking sets and/or doing very bland DJ sets on such a large scale. The average consumer of EDM is fine with an average bland DJ set at this point, and that trickles down to the DJ level too. Kids who have picked up DJing in roughly the last 5 years (give or take a few years) have seen mediocrity as the standard from the people in the spotlight, so the focus of what is important has faded. |
| Rena Estabrook 15.10.2012 | Pretty good points of view. To me, really about time and place. I believe it's totally cool when DJs go all out creative on their mix tapes. It gives me a chance to listen, analyze, and appreciate the skill involved. Watching battles is fun too. But in a club, I prefer good old fashion song selection and smooth blends. |
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