Why old school DJs are complainging and you should too

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Why old school DJs are complainging and you should too
Posted on: 20.05.2012 by Margie Pavell
a good little editorial...sums up how alot of us feel...

http://notyourjukebox.com/2012/05/19...ou-should-too/
Eleanor Munday
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by sarasin
Exactly....was me who made that comment.

Its different...yes....and we the DJ's can see the difference.

Richie Hawtin - Qbert
Carl Cox - Ean Golden

They are all different and we can see this.

Now there are more variations....but the crowd does not see it that way.
If they see a HUGE show...massive beats...half being their favourites...then they are happy.

Its only the REAL savvy punters that see what is really happening.

I believe what you are saying here is

John Digweed - David Guetta - One is a legendary pioneer of music who has constantly pushed the boundaries and has remained a respectable, fresh sounding artist for over 20years, the other..... well, the less said the better!

The problem being, they are both DJs and the majority simply cannot or can't be bothered to tell the difference between the 2 and therefor see them as the same thing.
Osvaldo Newhall
23.05.2012		I very much agree on the article. There are so many famous "DJs" out there cheating their way to earn money without honesty to their crowd.
Lilliana Perris
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by Sublim&All
Well, Cox is actually known and famous for being a techno ambassador. I guess it has to do with the fact that he's been known and famous for it for the previous decades.

I mean, the sweetest house mafia are seen as 'legends' already by some, how would their public react when they suddenly started to play tracks nobody knows?

You see, DJ's play other peoples music. Thats how its always been.

These days, the producer of the electronic song is getting known. Before, the producer was not involved in the front end business of a band etc. But now, the producer IS the band.

So to perform, he goes out and performs his music. PERFORMING being the word. How does he do it, with SO much going on?
He play a pre-mixed set of his own tracks and plays with the arrangement and FX etc. Some on em are LAZY and just press play.
Then stand there and make sure they do something the crowd will remember. Something WHACK.

This said Producer gets invited to play overseas and he goes and does it. But, to cash in, he adds that he can do a LIVE set and a DJ set. The promoter recons thats a good idea, but does not realize that this producer will do what he does with his live set, to his DJ set. Some will actually DJ their own tracks.

Then the DJ the next evening wants to get the same reaction the producer did. So he also plays those tracks....

After a while, its ONLY bangers being played and known tracks. Sausage machine....

It really has been since EDM producers started playing 'LIVE' that this has all come about.

If the producer stuck to playing LIVE and let the DJ's DJ....then maybe there would not be this overlap and wrongful training of crowds.

Its all about capitalizing on the NOW.
Lilliana Perris
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
I understand that sentiment, and at times agree, but it's wrong. I hate to re-reference someone already brought up, but he's a legend. If what you said were true, guys like Carl Cox would be fading away, and that just isn't the case.
Exactly....was me who made that comment.

Its different...yes....and we the DJ's can see the difference.

Richie Hawtin - Qbert
Carl Cox - Ean Golden

They are all different and we can see this.

Now there are more variations....but the crowd does not see it that way.
If they see a HUGE show...massive beats...half being their favourites...then they are happy.

Its only the REAL savvy punters that see what is really happening.
Viviana Tarno
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
I understand that sentiment, and at times agree, but it's wrong. I hate to re-reference someone already brought up, but he's a legend. If what you said were true, guys like Carl Cox would be fading away, and that just isn't the case.
Well, Cox is actually known and famous for being a techno ambassador. I guess it has to do with the fact that he's been known and famous for it for the previous decades.

I mean, the sweetest house mafia are seen as 'legends' already by some, how would their public react when they suddenly started to play tracks nobody knows?
Darren Teboe
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by Sublim&All
One problem: these days, a DJ seems to have another purpose in the eyes of the crowd than before. Instead of being an ambassador of new music, the public actually wants the DJ to play the tracks they already know and are popular. You're less and less allowed to fulfill the teaching role in music.

I understand that sentiment, and at times agree, but it's wrong. I hate to re-reference someone already brought up, but he's a legend. If what you said were true, guys like Carl Cox would be fading away, and that just isn't the case.
Viviana Tarno
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by sarasin
^^This is it.

Educating the crowd on good music.

The DJ is SUPPOSED to have GREAT taste in music and bring new tunes to his sets and clubs.
Its the DJ that should be making new unknown tracks popular.
One problem: these days, a DJ seems to have another purpose in the eyes of the crowd than before. Instead of being an ambassador of new music, the public actually wants the DJ to play the tracks they already know and are popular. You're less and less allowed to fulfill the teaching role in music.
Claude Koveleski
23.05.2012		Way too much whining not enough playing IMO. This is my opinion and is not directed at anyone, only my thoughts on the whole Old school vs new school crap.

Old school or not who gives a rats. When I started playing there were no CDJ's, USB sticks, FX etc etc. People went to see a particular DJ based on skill and the record collection he/she had. These days it's totally different. Technology has allowed the masses to have access to the art of trying to be a DJ. It's good and bad. The good is more cool tracks being written and a much larger audience. The bad is every kid and his grandma now believes they are an ace DJ. I'm not blowing my trumpet here but I don't need CDj's, Beat counters, Waveforms or any of the new fandangle technology to play a set that will rock a crowd. If that's your way of DJing then that's great and if you are kick ass even better. However to me the art of DJing isn’t just downloading a track and bangin it out at people.To me it’s finding the tunes by going into the shop and hunting down that ‘bomb’ on wax and being able to slot it into your current rotation. Yep I use a DVS system this is more for ease and to lessen how many times I play my record collection. However I still buy records every week. Collecting your records and talking with the cats in the stores is another major part of DJing that many do not practice any more. It’s full on these days. Many newer DJs rock up and only want to play the latest tracks and only want to play from 12-1am or 12-2am straight off the bat. They walk in all cool with a USB stick bang it in the slot and then reach straight for the crummy Pioneer FX knob. This to me is not art it’s chlids play and extremely boring to watch yet alone listen to as the next cat will do the same shit and play many of the same tracks. Sigh. I’m a lover of everything to do with new technology in the Audio industry however in the wrong hands it can really suck. Peace!
Lilliana Perris
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
Nope, and that estimation is the disconnect of what DJing is really about that gets most of the old guys heated.

It's about breaking new music. Not getting the credit for the music. It's about delivering to the crowd what should be making people music stars. Not about being the star. It's about being known and trusted as the person you expect to turn you on to new and exciting, groundbreaking, unknown tracks. Not providing 100% of the same thing that everyone already knows.
^^This is it.

Educating the crowd on good music.

The DJ is SUPPOSED to have GREAT taste in music and bring new tunes to his sets and clubs.
Its the DJ that should be making new unknown tracks popular.
Lilliana Perris
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by Machete

do anyone of you guys have ever go to pacha in NY?

its full of jersey shore kind of guys in drugs just dancing like monkeys and they always have these big DJs coming

and those people doesnt even know hos playing they only there to drink take moly and have sex fucking apes

HAHAHA...that was an awesome read!
Eleanor Munday
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
I'd say the punters are the last ones to be blamed. Blame the flavor of the month... Guetta, Sweedish Fish Mafia, etc. THOSE ACTS are what the punters see as cool, and they are more or less mindless. All it would take is any of these guys to go back to their roots and do what got them there, and the sheep will follow. They always do.

Great comment. I don't for one second believe that some of these people can genuinely enjoy what they are doing. They may like the fame and the money that comes with it. If you take Tiesto for example, the guy was one of the pioneers of the trance scene and he clearly loved what he was doing. He was passionate and believable. Now he looks like he's just going through the motions, playing/making music he clearly has no love for. Sebastian Ingrosso is actually a very skillful DJ. The hype surrounding the Swedish House Mafia has pushed him down a path that i'm sure deep down, he doesn't want to be on.

These are examples of the influence the USA has had on the scene throughout the world. European DJs who once were exciting, respectable artists have been reduced to making mass market crap so they can have success in the USA.
Rebbecca Fennell
22.05.2012		this wasnt what i was expecting to read and ive got to say - pretty pleased that it wasnt what i was expecting to read.
Cole Maroto
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
Sobi is the man, I couldn't agree with him more. When did turn from being a tastemaker and introducing people to new sounds and experiences, to being about catering to the crowd and having to play requests and being threatened if you don't?
ha! that reminds me of the time i got "invited" to a bout of fisticuffs at a gig. some dude's girlfriend kept bugging me to play hip hop stuff like 50 cent when i was laying down a deep and funky house set. she wouldn't even begin to accept the fact that my little record and cd case didn't have any 50 cent or the like in it...not that i would have played it if i had it, it just wouldn't have made any sense in the context of the mood.
Sally Walkowiak
22.05.2012		I have so many friends who have recently picked up djing who clearly are not doing it for the love of music, and quite frankly it pisses me off.
Werner Bile
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by RossH
Americans are not helping either with this constant reference to 'EDM!'. We know they were slow to catch on to the dance music scene, which left the European scene relatively free from the commercial crap (ok, it existed but not as pronounced). Now that USA has caught on, the whole scene is being hijacked with generic, commercial, non descript pish!

Rant over!
hey, don't lump all americans together. its a big country and some areas have been down with the dance music scene for quite a while now.
Darren Teboe
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by Patch
Sums it up perfectly. The problem is not the DJ's as much as it's the punters. They don't know good music when they hear it - they need to be TOLD what good music is (or what is considered good music this week).

I still to this day don't know half of the tracks that Carl Cox played the first time I saw him - but I know they were some of the most amazing tunes ever written.

I remember turning to total strangers and asking what the hell that track was - fucked if any of us knew, but we liked it.

You can see punters now turning and looking at each other when they don't recognise a song, raising an eyebrow, and dismissing the song without even considering if it's moving them or not. Just because they haven't heard this weeks big DJ play it.

Blame the punters. The good ones are outnumbered 10 to 1 by sheep.

I'd say the punters are the last ones to be blamed. Blame the flavor of the month... Guetta, Sweedish Fish Mafia, etc. THOSE ACTS are what the punters see as cool, and they are more or less mindless. All it would take is any of these guys to go back to their roots and do what got them there, and the sheep will follow. They always do.
Margie Pavell
22.05.2012		i am glad this turned into a defence and an education about what a DJ is supposed to be doing up there...
Brunilda Kora
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by Mostapha
And, sadly, we can't all be one of the guys who started acid house.
Ain't life the biggest bitch????
Dorie Scelzo
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by Patch
I still to this day don't know half of the tracks that Carl Cox played the first time I saw him - but I know they were some of the most amazing tunes ever written.

I remember turning to total strangers and asking what the hell that track was - fucked if any of us knew, but we liked it.
hell yes.

I saw Mr. C a week and a half ago. Same story. I recognized the track he did with [a]ppendix shuffle that dropped a couple months ago but not much else. Shazam was basically worthless the whole evening . maybe people more engrained in that scene know more of the tracks
Nannette Doniger
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by Patch
Sums it up perfectly. The problem is not the DJ's as much as it's the punters. They don't know good music when they hear it - they need to be TOLD what good music is (or what is considered good music this week).

I still to this day don't know half of the tracks that Carl Cox played the first time I saw him - but I know they were some of the most amazing tunes ever written.

I remember turning to total strangers and asking what the hell that track was - fucked if any of us knew, but we liked it.

You can see punters now turning and looking at each other when they don't recognise a song, raising an eyebrow, and dismissing the song without even considering if it's moving them or not. Just because they haven't heard this weeks big DJ play it.

Blame the punters. The good ones are outnumbered 10 to 1 by sheep.
absolutely agree with this. They've become totally used to cheesey commercial 'big room tunes' and kin 'clubland' compilations that they believe that's what dance music is all about
Brunilda Kora
22.05.2012		Sums it up perfectly. The problem is not the DJ's as much as it's the punters. They don't know good music when they hear it - they need to be TOLD what good music is (or what is considered good music this week).

I still to this day don't know half of the tracks that Carl Cox played the first time I saw him - but I know they were some of the most amazing tunes ever written.

I remember turning to total strangers and asking what the hell that track was - fucked if any of us knew, but we liked it.

You can see punters now turning and looking at each other when they don't recognise a song, raising an eyebrow, and dismissing the song without even considering if it's moving them or not. Just because they haven't heard this weeks big DJ play it.

Blame the punters. The good ones are outnumbered 10 to 1 by sheep.
Leeanna Ayla
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
Nope, and that estimation is the disconnect of what DJing is really about that gets most of the old guys heated.

It's about breaking new music. Not getting the credit for the music. It's about delivering to the crowd what should be making people music stars. Not about being the star. It's about being known and trusted as the person you expect to turn you on to new and exciting, groundbreaking, unknown tracks. Not providing 100% of the same thing that everyone already knows.
Amen
Darren Teboe
22.05.2012		Hey... there's nothing wrong with requests or playing the big tunes, but everything in life is balance. When an entire set (or worse, a whole evening ) is over run with already charted music, you've done nothing more than played a radio station over some very loud speakers. Thankyou for becoming an extension of Clear Channel communications

(sidenote - for our friends in other countries, Clear Channel is a company that mostly took over the radio industry, and killed the format which ALSO used to be known for breaking new and interesting music. Now our radio waves are dominated by dull redundant pop on almost all stations, and the same 20 songs are beat over the listeners heads)
Dorie Scelzo
22.05.2012		When the scene became overrun with Sex & the City types who had no business going to a House party in the first place.
Georgina Schatzman
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
Nope, and that estimation is the disconnect of what DJing is really about that gets most of the old guys heated.

It's about breaking new music. Not getting the credit for the music. It's about delivering to the crowd what should be making people music stars. Not about being the star. It's about being known and trusted as the person you expect to turn you on to new and exciting, groundbreaking, unknown tracks. Not providing 100% of the same thing that everyone already knows.
Sobi is the man, I couldn't agree with him more. When did turn from being a tastemaker and introducing people to new sounds and experiences, to being about catering to the crowd and having to play requests and being threatened if you don't?
Nannette Doniger
22.05.2012		+1

And id like to add I dont even believe its just about breaking new music on a big scale and making 'stars'.
I take pride in introducing my friends to tracks/artists/dj's they would never know about.
That should be at the heart of good DJ IMO, the thrill of introducing music to ppl that they didnt know about or maybe even believe they'd like wether thats in a 1000+ capacity club or mix cd's for friends etc
Dorie Scelzo
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
It's about breaking new music. Not getting the credit for the music. It's about delivering to the crowd what should be making people music stars. Not about being the star. It's about being known and trusted as the person you expect to turn you on to new and exciting, groundbreaking, unknown tracks. Not providing 100% of the same thing that everyone already knows.
Agreed.

Again, if everyone's playing the beatport top 10, what makes one DJ different from another? How well they hammer the IG mapping that a million other people have? Try again.
Fannie Ohayre
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
So because he liked a track someone else wrote and decided to play it a lot... He deserves credit? And presumably more credit than someone who does a lot of pre-production for their sets?
The point was that a club DJ took an unknown "B" Side song and turned it into a club anthem.

...Leonard Balk who back then worked for Impact Publications remembers; "Ritchie used to report to our paper every week the hottest records and who was seen at Studio 54. One afternoon Ritchie called me and asked me if I had the Gloria Gaynor record 'Substitute'. I told him I did and he asked me to play the flip side, I told him I would and he said - 'No, do it now! I will hold on.' After listening to it I brought the record to Joe Loris and played it for him. I started calling programmers across the country and Joe started writing it up in IMPACT, which was very respected at the time. The record company was giving Joe a hard time because the push was on 'Substitute', Joe persisted and the rest is history. It all really started with Ritchie."...
Darren Teboe
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
So because he liked a track someone else wrote and decided to play it a lot... He deserves credit? And presumably more credit than someone who does a lot of pre-production for their sets?
Nope, and that estimation is the disconnect of what DJing is really about that gets most of the old guys heated.

It's about breaking new music. Not getting the credit for the music. It's about delivering to the crowd what should be making people music stars. Not about being the star. It's about being known and trusted as the person you expect to turn you on to new and exciting, groundbreaking, unknown tracks. Not providing 100% of the same thing that everyone already knows.
Frederic Acidera
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by sarasin
What?....YEars spinning?

Sitting and spinning maybe...
I believe they meant, spinning in different beds...

-Btw who wouldn't like to be Afrojack and take Paris for a spin, and use the 'family' boats and jets... seriously. He'll just pre record a set and get his chick a few gigs. I rather be working on my mappings than keep worrying if she takes the decks or not.
Natalia Bucko
22.05.2012		So because he liked a track someone else wrote and decided to play it a lot... He deserves credit? And presumably more credit than someone who does a lot of pre-production for their sets?
Fannie Ohayre
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
Larry Levan at Paradise Garage?
No. Ritchie Kaczor at Studio 54:

...the man who literally could turn a song into a # 1 Billboard hit. Which he did with the song that has been voted as THE anthem of Disco - Gloria Gaynor's "I will survive". Polydor was releasing a song with Mrs. Gaynor called "Substitute", that was the A-side track and on the flip they had put "I will survive". Richie got a promo copy of the 12" single and he just loved the B-side and started playing it at Studio 54, soon the word spread and all the other New York DJ's started playing it.
Nicky Siano said; "He discovered that record. He made a hit out of it."...

My apologies for going slightly off topic.
Neva Sparacino
22.05.2012		I agree dont be a paris hilton

I want to add something: its crowds fault too
they paying money to see just a dj set thats so austere this days

In my oppinion its important to have a good selection of music but its ALOT better to have a good performance dont just be the DJ if people are paying to see your show dont just DJ play some instrument use ableton racks
scratch a bit get a sample deck do something new innovate

do anyone of you guys have ever go to pacha in NY?

its full of jersey shore kind of guys in drugs just dancing like monkeys and they always have these big DJs coming

and those people doesnt even know hos playing they only there to drink take moly and have sex fucking apes

Im gessing the dudes that play there like david guetta wolfgang gartner afrojack and chuckie wont do shit in those DJ sets
Marguerite Salsedo
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
You paged me?
Silly photojojo, true oldschool DJ's don't have pagers!
Eleanor Munday
22.05.2012		It annoys me when Djs like Tiesto can go from being responsible for work like this...



...to the commercial drivel and utter sh**e he plays now, purely for the money. Americans are not helping either with this constant reference to 'EDM!'. We know they were slow to catch on to the dance music scene, which left the European scene relatively free from the commercial crap (ok, it existed but not as pronounced). Now that USA has caught on, the whole scene is being hijacked with generic, commercial, non descript pish!

Rant over!
Lilliana Perris
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by VanGogo
Were you too drunk to f#*k?
Love that song.

Charline Dye
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
I saw them once, don't really remember much though.
Were you too drunk to f#*k?
Ashanti Andreacchio
22.05.2012		When a DJ gets payed for playing his is at work and if he's only playing pre-mixed sets he's not really needed at the gig. All factories replace the human workers that are not needed by a robot. Maybe all Famous DJ's should start using masks like Deadmau5 then they could just put anyone on stage waring their mask. But how many pop bands have played playback during their world tours. These big name DJ are actually one man pop bands so why not play back. I don't care if they do play back if I'd go to sensation white I would go for the lights show and not to listen to DJ tricks same with a show with Guetta or SHM would only be a + if they did mix live.

p.s.
Good music is good and a selection of good music is also good even if pre recorded
Chasidy Heckenbach
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by sarasin

Sitting and spinning maybe...
lol!
Leeanna Ayla
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by ExTrCt.
Someone who is old and has arthritis?
You paged me?

Originally Posted by ellgieff

See also: Chickenshit Conformist - Dead Kennedys.
I saw them once, don't really remember much though.

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