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Why old school DJs are complainging and you should too

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Why old school DJs are complainging and you should too Posted on: 20.05.2012 by Margie Pavell a good little editorial...sums up how alot of us feel... http://notyourjukebox.com/2012/05/19...ou-should-too/
Dorie Scelzo 25.05.2012	Originally Posted by JasonBay they might not be train wrecking, but there's a lot more that they can do to make a bad mix than that. Heh…if "not train wrecking" were the sole criterion for a good mix, Theo Parish would have been laughed off the decks decades ago.
Margie Pavell 25.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha It has nothing to do with technology. It's a matter of entitlement and understanding. Too much of one and not enough of the other. once again i will agree with you...
Antoinette Bradshaw 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by JasonBay This pretty much sums it up well. Kids believe just because they have the tools they should be DJing everywhere and anywhere, but don't have the experience to actually be able to pull it off. Sure, they might not be train wrecking, but there's a lot more that they can do to make a bad mix than that. Amen to that!
Georgina Schatzman 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha It has nothing to do with technology. It's a matter of entitlement and understanding. Too much of one and not enough of the other. This pretty much sums it up well. Kids believe just because they have the tools they should be DJing everywhere and anywhere, but don't have the experience to actually be able to pull it off. Sure, they might not be train wrecking, but there's a lot more that they can do to make a bad mix than that.
Lela Umanskaya 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by aarondavid Im just frustrated at how people are taking advantage of technology now a days, and ruining a hobby that once was legendary...
Dorie Scelzo 25.05.2012	Originally Posted by JasonBay they might not be train wrecking, but there's a lot more that they can do to make a bad mix than that. Heh…if "not train wrecking" were the sole criterion for a good mix, Theo Parish would have been laughed off the decks decades ago.
Margie Pavell 25.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha It has nothing to do with technology. It's a matter of entitlement and understanding. Too much of one and not enough of the other. once again i will agree with you...
Antoinette Bradshaw 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by JasonBay This pretty much sums it up well. Kids believe just because they have the tools they should be DJing everywhere and anywhere, but don't have the experience to actually be able to pull it off. Sure, they might not be train wrecking, but there's a lot more that they can do to make a bad mix than that. Amen to that!
Natalia Bucko 24.05.2012	I cannot believe that on this community of all places, there's a sync debate. Fuck you. Well played Rotebass.
Georgina Schatzman 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha It has nothing to do with technology. It's a matter of entitlement and understanding. Too much of one and not enough of the other. This pretty much sums it up well. Kids believe just because they have the tools they should be DJing everywhere and anywhere, but don't have the experience to actually be able to pull it off. Sure, they might not be train wrecking, but there's a lot more that they can do to make a bad mix than that.
Dorie Scelzo 24.05.2012	It has nothing to do with technology. It's a matter of entitlement and understanding. Too much of one and not enough of the other.
Cristian Carmona 24.05.2012	Oldschool djs can complain, cause they can. They been there, done that, and put a whole lot of time into their vinyl or cd collection that took years to put together, now anyone with a computer and internet connection could get music and software for free and label themselves a "DJ". On the flip side, alot of Oldschool djs a very closed minded about new technology. They forget that djs back then that scratched or beatmatched they were the hipsters.
Romelia Stankard 24.05.2012	hahaha
Dorie Scelzo 24.05.2012	lol. I kinda liked that song…well the 2.3 seconds of it that anyone remembers…for pop. Also, that album was recorded at the same studio as "Thriller".
Georgina Schatzman 24.05.2012	Well played rotebss, well played...
Lela Umanskaya 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by aarondavid Im just frustrated at how people are taking advantage of technology now a days, and ruining a hobby that once was legendary...
Dorie Scelzo 24.05.2012	Is it considered insulting an obvious troll (or some other community violation) to post a link for how to block the user in the thread?
Antoinette Bradshaw 24.05.2012	If i have to go back to Djing with 2 Rocks and a Stick to be considered "real" by the old timers, then yes... Im just frustrated at how people are taking advantage of technology now a days, and ruining a hobby that once was legendary... Its like building a KitCar. Back in the day people would spends days and days building, welding, crafting...and they still do this... But what happens if in the future you can just buy a kit cars just came already assembled...Are you going to say that you put the time and effort into making the Kit Car that you bought preassembled?
Georgina Schatzman 24.05.2012	So now there are different levels of old school? Are we just going to back to when you started? How about people who were doing it long before you and believe you're not a real DJ until you can work that reel to reel and get it in time with a record? In their eyes your not a 'real' DJ yet either, are you going to learn how to do that?
Antoinette Bradshaw 24.05.2012	Im not saying completly old school...Im just saying that people decided that a sync button and 2 songs is enough to justify being a "DJ"
Georgina Schatzman 24.05.2012	Might as well toss in learning how to mix with reel to reels and ADATs as well then based on your logic. And learning how to mix on turntables without a pitch control or go authentic and mix two records with out a mixer and try and line up the records the best you can.
Antoinette Bradshaw 24.05.2012	I believe that although Technology is advancing...i believe that your cannot truely call yourself a "DJ" without learning the basics...and i mean like real old school Techs or even some new turntables such as Stanton STR180's or whatever their called. Its basically like calling your self a professional BMX Biker without knowing how to ride a bike...Ya you can take the easy way around it and use Training wheels the rest of your professional career but you will get laughed at and treated unequal.. Just my 2 cents
Lela Umanskaya 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by AllDay MTV is Canadian... Just saying You couldn't get MTV in Canada back in the 90's.
Tera Baragan 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by rotebass I remember that well, Come to Daddy and that stupid Prodigy song that was on MM (Canadian version of MTV) back in the 1990s. MTV is Canadian... Just saying
Georgina Schatzman 24.05.2012	Originally Posted by keithace "if you liked that...you will love this" type of attitude is what needs to be adopted by alot more people... This also goes back to the must read "opening DJ tips" thread that turned into a fustercluck at some point... Sadly not enough DJ's have the balls and/or musical knowledge to actually be able to pull that off. They only know what's on the charts instead of being music librarians who can guide people to find new tunes based on what they are currently feeling.
Margie Pavell 23.05.2012	I still don't believe is an "old school V. new school" thing...i believe it's alot bigger than that... i believe the word "taste maker" was used earlier...which is what i believe we all need to be... if you have a prime slot of the evening you will need to play something familiar for all the non EDM punters...but after that you need to mix in some great records that alot of those people on the dancefloor don't know and haven't heard. It's your job as the controller of the dancefloor to push the sound forward by playing fresh non top 100 tracks... "if you liked that...you will love this" type of attitude is what needs to be adopted by alot more people... This also goes back to the must read "opening DJ tips" thread that turned into a fustercluck at some point...
Reda Holdsworth 23.05.2012	This reminds me of the song ... Your Dj aint no DJ he just plays that fu#&ing mix tape.... & what fun is that?
Johnsie Kingrea 23.05.2012	The thing that people should be taking away from this thread and the clown dj's thread is that it all comes down to one's integrity as a DJ. If you believe wearing is a mask is cool or throwing a cake in someone's face is cool then go right ahead. If that's not that your thing then focus on what you do love about DJing. Whatever you do, don't do something just because it's cool or someone's paying you to do it.
Lela Umanskaya 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by sobi Yes, one of them is wrong. There has been several of these threads (nothing wrong with that, though this conversation might have stayed contained in one I started that got locked for really no good reason at all other than a mod decided it strayed too much for his liking) touching on this topic, and I'm not sure where I put it, but there's a very sound logical reason. We are doomed to repeat history if we don't learn from our mistakes. Those guys who want to just bang out and party are quick to take a big fat check to do what the masses want, what sells the tickets/merch, and increases marketability. Nothing wrong with that, but the end game is no good. We've seen this song and dance before (quite literally) with Disco. The parallels are uncanny. These same events that are happening are more or less exactly what doomed disco. Maybe you are cool with seeing that happen in favor of progress, but I for one am not. I have been an actively gigging DJ for over 15 years now and was there for the birth of rave in america, the death of it, and now dance musics second mainstream roundabout. Many of the younger folks might not realize this, but at one time, MTV (back when they had videos) was actually airing stuff from Josh Wink, Aphex Twin, Moby, and many more great artists. I don't want to see our musics movement take a nosedive the way it did last time, and at the current pace, it will. While we can't go full steam ahead, our dance culture needs to mix in more timeless music along with the pop crap that the festival circuit has been thriving on. If it does, it's a recipe for longevity. Education will help keep people around once the flavor of the month has run dry of it's artificial processed tastes. I remember that well, Come to Daddy and that stupid Prodigy song that was on MM (Canadian version of MTV) back in the 1990s. Still I don't believe it's really gonna harm the core of the "EDM" movement. In fact, if it wasn't for that first wave of mainstream dance music, I probably wouldn't be here now. The fact of the matter is this, there is always going to be 'that guy' struggling his way through the Top 40 list du jour, the question is: does he actually really cut into the bottom line of the rest of us. I believe more along the lines of the "gateway drug" logic, 'that guy' is going to introduce people to a new style of music, even if he does a terrible job of it. Some people are going just going to scratch at the surface, some of us (most people on here presumably) are going to dig a little deeper, then they'll find all thes hiddene gems, and at that point it quickly becomes a lifestyle. But perhaps that's where our viewpoints diverge, I've just accepted the fact that the kind of gigs where I would have to deal with people like 'that guy' aren't really the kind of gigs I would want in the first place. I'm happy playing for a few friends, or recording mixes, most of my mixes contain tunes that I would want to listen to anyways, so it's nice to mix em up and throw em on the iPod for my own personal enjoyment. Also, while I've been a casual fan of guys like Cox since the early 00's, it's been very recently that I decided to take a run at doing it myself. Maybe I just need a few years to get more jaded
Lilliana Perris 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha You're definitely right. I didn't get that from your original post, whether from your fault or my own IDK, but whatever. And it seems that way in basically every scene that I even pretend to follow. Here's the part IDK about… So…what–in your estimation–is a lowly DJ to do? Live production (ableton, remixes, even mashups as dumb as I believe they are) isn't the answer because that's not DJing. Yet DJing doesn't seem to be on the way out. Even a DJ who produces either because he wants to or because he uses it to get his name out would have to play his own crap if your narrative is correct…regardless of whether or not it's right for the evening . Do you see any way out of this vicious cycle? It was an open ended statement. I also don't know.... Does the DJ HAVE to up his game? Is he fine where he is and it will blow over? Does he ignore it to his peril? Its all up in the air! Personally, I am from a wee country in Africa man. It does not effect me THAT heavily. I see it, it happens here.... Here its Definitely a 'Who you know' game. You can be the best fucking DJ around town and if you do not KEEP networking and be buddy buddy with the guys who run the bookings for the clubs, you screwed. We have a club here called Assembly. All the internationals that come down here, play there. Who supports? The guys running the bookings etc. You just don;t get a slot, unless you have something to give them (like a gig somewhere else or whatever). They pretty much can do as they like. Rich kids taking over. So its similar in the way that its all hype and tricks, instead of actual talent. The crowds here (mainly students) just wanna RAGE. That's why I stick to the Psy scene here. I am in there much deeper and its not AS fucked up as the other scenes. Its bigger and more regular parties than we see with house\electro etc. I don't have an answer...not even close. I can see what's happening and I can see why its happening, but just not sure if one can change it from the DJ's perspective.
Dorie Scelzo 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by sarasin Sure, I should have put it better. When selling music bombed, their performances needed to be upped and in my experience here locally, the producers started DJing to make their pay packet bigger.…My point was that DJ's back in the day made tracks popular. Now its the producer that plays his own tracks and through the net and various other ways, spreads that love himself. …So the DJ has to step it up and do something so he ain't left behind.…Be it being a clown etc...producers get to travel and play easier than DJ's in my estimation. You're definitely right. I didn't get that from your original post, whether from your fault or my own IDK, but whatever. And it seems that way in basically every scene that I even pretend to follow. Here's the part IDK about… Originally Posted by sarasin So the DJ has to step it up and do something so he ain't left behind. So…what–in your estimation–is a lowly DJ to do? Live production (ableton, remixes, even mashups as dumb as I believe they are) isn't the answer because that's not DJing. Yet DJing doesn't seem to be on the way out. Even a DJ who produces either because he wants to or because he uses it to get his name out would have to play his own crap if your narrative is correct…regardless of whether or not it's right for the evening . Do you see any way out of this vicious cycle?
Lilliana Perris 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha Wrong. It was like that in the Disco era because
Lilliana Perris 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by sobi Producers have always been front and center. The only difference is now, it's acceptable to be a clown. No one has a problem with faking the funk. Guys like Union Jack, Hardfloor, and DubTribe Sound System were VERY well known for their live sets, and VERY respected for them. Thing is, they actually played live. Keyboards, sequencers, TB 303's... everything was live. If someone posed as doing a live show, and played a DAT, word spread pretty quick, and your reputation was shot. Sure, but I was talking before Electronic took off. When one said Metallica, you new the band members, not the producer.
Dorie Scelzo 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by sarasin You see, DJ's play other peoples music. Thats how its always been. These days, the producer of the electronic song is getting known. Before, the producer was not involved in the front end business of a band etc. But now, the producer IS the band. Wrong. It was like that in the Disco era because
Darren Teboe 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by Sublim&All Well, Cox is actually known and famous for being a techno ambassador. I guess it has to do with the fact that he's been known and famous for it for the previous decades. I mean, the sweetest house mafia are seen as 'legends' already by some, how would their public react when they suddenly started to play tracks nobody knows? That sort of reinforces what I'm saying though. My example with Coxy was a little limited. Most of these guys playing this crap music played good underground at one point. All I'm saying is that they could help a lot by not making their entire sets like this.
Darren Teboe 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by sarasin These days, the producer of the electronic song is getting known. Before, the producer was not involved in the front end business of a band etc. But now, the producer IS the band. Producers have always been front and center. The only difference is now, it's acceptable to be a clown. No one has a problem with faking the funk. Guys like Union Jack, Hardfloor, and DubTribe Sound System were VERY well known for their live sets, and VERY respected for them. Thing is, they actually played live. Keyboards, sequencers, TB 303's... everything was live. If someone posed as doing a live show, and played a DAT, word spread pretty quick, and your reputation was shot.
Lilliana Perris 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by rotebass My problem with this is that I've seen countless threads on here where I guy recounts a tale of bombing at a house party because people didn't like his style, only to be told that he should have been able to cater to the party. I bet some people who have posted in this very thread have made such statements in the past. Can we make up our minds please. Are we hired to educate people? Do we put together a crate of the most underground minimal techno and tech house, spin it and expect everybody to bask in our supreme musical knowledge? Or... Are we hired to make the crowd dance? Do we find out what kind of music are target likes, research it, put together a a nice play list and get the party moving all evening . Of course, we all know that the answer probably falls somewhere in the middle. Or maybe the answer doesn't matter, as long as you're having fun. Maybe that is the problem, we don't all have the same goals here. Some guys want to grow as a artist and develop their own sound, other guys just want to bang out some tunes and party. Is either goal so wrong? You see, this is where you age or experience shows. Me...I play MY favourites and the tracks I like. These are usually unreleased or NEW tracks. Sure I sometimes toss an older one in, if it works. That is my PSY gigs. I have residency and get booked to play that style. Then you get club DJ's, that play certain styles. EDM, HipHop etc. If they get booked, its usually for the style they play and how well. Again, they will be able to play and educate. Sure, you STILL need to be able to satisfy the crowd, within these styles. So have a lot of NEW music and use that to please the crowd. Thats where reading them comes in. Not just taking their requests. Then you have general club DJ's who play MANY styles. These guys play in the clubs that play all sorts. They REALLY need to have a lot of music to be able to satisfy everyone. Specially if they take requests etc. So again, these are all different DJ's. Knowing and understanding this, will help you understand you points raised. I still have to play to a crowd. If they SERIOUSLY do not like something I am playing, I HAVE to try something else. However, I will still be playing PSY. If the crowd want to hear progressive Trance at 3am at a Psy gig, they in the wrong place. If I have 50 people come and say OI...we want to listen to XYZ, I will have to try and make a plan. If its 1 person...SOD OFF. So its all about understanding this whole story and not just reading the articles and following em step by step. This...is exactly why the older generation are getting upset. The newer DJ's get the latest gear, read a few community s and believe they are ready from Prime Time. You might get away with it a few times, but its gonna catch up to you. not you you.....you in general
Darren Teboe 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by rotebass Can we make up our minds please. Most of us have, and you already stated the correct answer. Originally Posted by rotebass ...we all know that the answer probably falls somewhere in the middle... Originally Posted by rotebass Maybe that is the problem, we don't all have the same goals here. Some guys want to grow as a artist and develop their own sound, other guys just want to bang out some tunes and party. Is either goal so wrong? Yes, one of them is wrong. There has been several of these threads (nothing wrong with that, though this conversation might have stayed contained in one I started that got locked for really no good reason at all other than a mod decided it strayed too much for his liking) touching on this topic, and I'm not sure where I put it, but there's a very sound logical reason. We are doomed to repeat history if we don't learn from our mistakes. Those guys who want to just bang out and party are quick to take a big fat check to do what the masses want, what sells the tickets/merch, and increases marketability. Nothing wrong with that, but the end game is no good. We've seen this song and dance before (quite literally) with Disco. The parallels are uncanny. These same events that are happening are more or less exactly what doomed disco. Maybe you are cool with seeing that happen in favor of progress, but I for one am not. I have been an actively gigging DJ for over 15 years now and was there for the birth of rave in america, the death of it, and now dance musics second mainstream roundabout. Many of the younger folks might not realize this, but at one time, MTV (back when they had videos) was actually airing stuff from Josh Wink, Aphex Twin, Moby, and many more great artists. I don't want to see our musics movement take a nosedive the way it did last time, and at the current pace, it will. While we can't go full steam ahead, our dance culture needs to mix in more timeless music along with the pop crap that the festival circuit has been thriving on. If it does, it's a recipe for longevity. Education will help keep people around once the flavor of the month has run dry of it's artificial processed tastes.
Lilliana Perris 23.05.2012	pretty much....
Lela Umanskaya 23.05.2012	Originally Posted by sarasin ^^This is it. Educating the crowd on good music. The DJ is SUPPOSED to have GREAT taste in music and bring new tunes to his sets and clubs. Its the DJ that should be making new unknown tracks popular. My problem with this is that I've seen countless threads on here where I guy recounts a tale of bombing at a house party because people didn't like his style, only to be told that he should have been able to cater to the party. I bet some people who have posted in this very thread have made such statements in the past. Can we make up our minds please. Are we hired to educate people? Do we put together a crate of the most underground minimal techno and tech house, spin it and expect everybody to bask in our supreme musical knowledge? Or... Are we hired to make the crowd dance? Do we find out what kind of music are target likes, research it, put together a a nice play list and get the party moving all evening . Of course, we all know that the answer probably falls somewhere in the middle. Or maybe the answer doesn't matter, as long as you're having fun. Maybe that is the problem, we don't all have the same goals here. Some guys want to grow as a artist and develop their own sound, other guys just want to bang out some tunes and party. Is either goal so wrong?

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Why old school DJs are complainging and you should too