Why is Serato worth more money Why does Serato SL demand a higher price than Traktor. If Traktor cost more would that effect their sales. Or would they have the same share as they do now. What is it that makes people want to spend that extra money on serato?
1. is it they really need side by side waveforms
2. They truely beleive serato is the only credible DVS solution
3. they believe its more reliable
4. its easier to setup for the 1st time
5. its simpler to use
6. They use the bridge and its recording capabilites
7. they like having midi devices set up for them
8. they dj with video ( i know a few ppl who have switched for this reason)
9. They beleive the sound cards are better quality
10. there mates use it |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
people are being plenty creative on serato these days (video)
Originally Posted by BennyJ
(video)
THATS being creative. Using effects and cue juggling slowing and speeding up a song. Cue jugging and scratching is creatuve i guess for serato.
Am I the only person who's flat-out not impressed by either video? There's a lot of tricks, but the core set in both of them is seriously lacking. I'm aware that they were both done as an example of what could be done with the hardware, and it's impressive for the hardware and the obvious technical mastery of the DJs. But, I'll never be convinced that technical mastery without artistry is impressive, and I'll never be convinced that even trade-show sets should be able to get away with a lack of artistry.
When it comes to the artistic elements, I don't believe one system really shines over the other. By that, I mean that for what I value, Traktor barely edges out SSL because of two seldom-used features: beats to cue and the key knob. The latter makes many discussions of harmonic mixing moot. The former |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
people are being plenty creative on serato these days (video)
Originally Posted by BennyJ
(video)
THATS being creative. Using effects and cue juggling slowing and speeding up a song. Cue jugging and scratching is creatuve i guess for serato.
Am I the only person who's flat-out not impressed by either video? There's a lot of tricks, but the core set in both of them is seriously lacking. I'm aware that they were both done as an example of what could be done with the hardware, and it's impressive for the hardware and the obvious technical mastery of the DJs. But, I'll never be convinced that technical mastery without artistry is impressive, and I'll never be convinced that even trade-show sets should be able to get away with a lack of artistry.
When it comes to the artistic elements, I don't believe one system really shines over the other. By that, I mean that for what I value, Traktor barely edges out SSL because of two seldom-used features: beats to cue and the key knob. The latter makes many discussions of harmonic mixing moot. The former |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
people are being plenty creative on serato these days (video)
Originally Posted by BennyJ
(video)
THATS being creative. Using effects and cue juggling slowing and speeding up a song. Cue jugging and scratching is creatuve i guess for serato.
Am I the only person who's flat-out not impressed by either video? There's a lot of tricks, but the core set in both of them is seriously lacking. I'm aware that they were both done as an example of what could be done with the hardware, and it's impressive for the hardware and the obvious technical mastery of the DJs. But, I'll never be convinced that technical mastery without artistry is impressive, and I'll never be convinced that even trade-show sets should be able to get away with a lack of artistry.
When it comes to the artistic elements, I don't believe one system really shines over the other. By that, I mean that for what I value, Traktor barely edges out SSL because of two seldom-used features: beats to cue and the key knob. The latter makes many discussions of harmonic mixing moot. The former |
Matha Obray
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
whats so creative about cue point juggling and scratching?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8eB83axVvw
THATS being creative. Using effects and cue juggling slowing and speeding up a song. Cue jugging and scratching is creatuve i guess for serato. |
Candace Carmouche
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by tombruton69
For all those bitching about midi mapping in traktor my book on it is nearly complete. Duno if i will w8 till this release to change it. The evidence that ppl are being more creative with traktor is evident from youtube. Most serato djs i see around are fat middle ared men. But i do know some ppl doing some cool things with the bridge
people are being plenty creative on serato these days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVcZDsK0yUE |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
also you never know when a bug is going to get introduced to your favorite piece of software that prevents you from using it for the time being
Doesn't happen if you don't upgrade. With the exception of server and security software |
Cristian Carmona
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
you have to go to little cave on a evening
when jesc is having issues with gear. trust me, hes seen them all and again trust me. at the cave he plays exactly the same kind of set, every sunday because thats what that place requires. any deviation from that formula and the bartenders end up standing still looking at the dj going wtf? because everyone left.
very tempermental clientelle there.
simple formula 2 CDJ's, DJM-700, TSP + Audio 8 & 1 USB cable held together with 80s, Indie, Spanish Rock with a sprinkle of Ska or Punk Rock. |
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
if you're serious about your trade, you'll learn to use any and all tools available because you never know when a club owner is going to make a wierd decision like (i want my guys to only run serato/traktor/cdj's/turntables) because "a friend told him thats the thing to do".
if you're serious about your trade, you'll respectfully tell such people to fuck off; works for me. but then I don't really make my living as a DJ so I can afford to show a little more self-respect which, from a lower angle, is usually perceived as arrogance.
Originally Posted by xtianw
also you never know when a bug is going to get introduced to your favorite piece of software that prevents you from using it for the time being (until a bug fix for whatever the issue is gets released). I dont ever want to be in that position.
which is why you don't upgrade your software right before a gig and bring a backup laptop.
Originally Posted by xtianw
I wish you guys all knew JesC personally. That guy can play on ANYTHING. Exactly the same set if need be.
a good DJ will rock a set on a pair of belt-driven noname turntables if need be. but "exactly the same set" - never. |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
you guys will make up the most unbelivable shit about anyone that isnt NI. what(sic) did someone at serato skullfuck everyones mother and you guys just dont want to talk about it?
Lulz. I maintain that I'm more afraid of trusting NI than several other companies. I trust them more than Stanton and Gemini at this point, but that might be it.
this is really off topic, but |
Cristian Carmona
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
I wish you guys all knew JesC personally. That guy can play on ANYTHING. Exactly the same set if need be.
Thats what I strive for personally now. Equal knowledge and ability on ALL tools available to the digital dj.
Thanks man!
I enjoy djing. I don't give a rats ass if it's on SSL, TSP, or CDs on a numark mix station.
The software doesn't make you a better DJ, it's the person behind the decks! |
Candace Carmouche
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by josh@firestorm
i wasn't implying that you put a bit of mayonaise on the story.. i was implying that they did in what they were telling you.
i have a feeling they are doing a bit of an apple... selling their product to wholesalers at an extreme markup, maximising their own profits. not unlike apple (i believe retailers only make about 9-10% profit selling macbooks for example)
i hate to do this but...
*citation needed*
im sorry, but your imagination isnt enough for me to go on.
guys really. wtf? you guys will make up the most unbelivable shit about anyone that isnt NI.
what did someone at serato skullfuck everyones mother and you guys just dont want to talk about it?
honestly, i really dont get. i really dont. |
Jacque Divinity
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
not according to the serato employee's i spoke to at namm for several hours over 4 days. its not like i pulled that out of my ass. its actually something we had a half hour conversation about.
i wasn't implying that you put a bit of mayonaise on the story.. i was implying that they did in what they were telling you.
i have a feeling they are doing a bit of an apple... selling their product to wholesalers at an extreme markup, maximising their own profits. not unlike apple (i believe retailers only make about 9-10% profit selling macbooks for example) |
Nedra Fresneda
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
I've never mapped SSL, but compared to Ableton Live, Traktor's midi mapping takes forever, has a bunch of useless options laid out in weird ways, assumes things it shouldn't, doesn't assume things it should, and appears to only be more powerful in the aspect that you can assign multiple controls to a single parameter.
a) it's easier to map simple/direct things in live but not all traktor's commands are displayed in the UI (ie: reverse playback)
b) what about output mapping, modifiers?
traktor shows it's strength with complex maps |
Edgar Freeze
18.01.2011 | Some good thoughts and discussion in this thread. Here's my 2:
I have no deep seeded allegiance to Serato but I started using it because it was sort of an "industry standard" when I was DJing every weekend maybe a year ago. A lot of the clubs I was playing in had 57's or serato boxes built into the booth. And many of the DJ's I played with were using Serato as well. At the time it was sort of impractical to want to hook up a separate interface. Serato was successful in establishing themselves early on in the working DJ game and their proprietary hardware did well to keep them at the top of that market.
I believe that's changing now. A lot of people are adopting controllers and alternative setups to the clubs turntables and with a midi controller comes some flexibility to what software you rock so it's great people can customize their setup to their heart's content. As a working DJ though it's often your job to play what people want to hear and to do it in the most effective AND creative way possible. For many that means getting behind a software that costs more and is a little more closed off. |
Matha Obray
18.01.2011 | I dont get what ur saying at all. Artistry? |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
people are being plenty creative on serato these days (video)
Originally Posted by BennyJ
(video)
THATS being creative. Using effects and cue juggling slowing and speeding up a song. Cue jugging and scratching is creatuve i guess for serato.
Am I the only person who's flat-out not impressed by either video? There's a lot of tricks, but the core set in both of them is seriously lacking. I'm aware that they were both done as an example of what could be done with the hardware, and it's impressive for the hardware and the obvious technical mastery of the DJs. But, I'll never be convinced that technical mastery without artistry is impressive, and I'll never be convinced that even trade-show sets should be able to get away with a lack of artistry.
When it comes to the artistic elements, I don't believe one system really shines over the other. By that, I mean that for what I value, Traktor barely edges out SSL because of two seldom-used features: beats to cue and the key knob. The latter makes many discussions of harmonic mixing moot. The former |
Adolf Hit
18.01.2011 | People seem to have some pretty skewed opinions here, Xtianw - you have it bang on the head in terms of their business model.
This thread is turning in to an opinionated yawn fest ... again. |
Matha Obray
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
whats so creative about cue point juggling and scratching?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8eB83axVvw
THATS being creative. Using effects and cue juggling slowing and speeding up a song. Cue jugging and scratching is creatuve i guess for serato. |
Marguerite Truka
18.01.2011 | pritty cool video. Its a novation promo, dj made a few mistakes fairly complex routeen tho. I looked to find good vids on serato b4 posting that obv didnt look hard enough. both software have there pros and im not saying one is better than the other is one really worth that much more tho. And the comment about 2 companies splitting the profit is a good comment |
Candace Carmouche
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by tombruton69
For all those bitching about midi mapping in traktor my book on it is nearly complete. Duno if i will w8 till this release to change it. The evidence that ppl are being more creative with traktor is evident from youtube. Most serato djs i see around are fat middle ared men. But i do know some ppl doing some cool things with the bridge
people are being plenty creative on serato these days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVcZDsK0yUE |
Marguerite Truka
18.01.2011 | For all those bitching about midi mapping in traktor my book on it is nearly complete. Duno if i will w8 till this release to change it. The evidence that ppl are being more creative with traktor is evident from youtube. Most serato djs i see around are fat middle ared men. But i do know some ppl doing some cool things with the bridge |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
also you never know when a bug is going to get introduced to your favorite piece of software that prevents you from using it for the time being
Doesn't happen if you don't upgrade. With the exception of server and security software |
Cristian Carmona
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
you have to go to little cave on a evening
when jesc is having issues with gear. trust me, hes seen them all and again trust me. at the cave he plays exactly the same kind of set, every sunday because thats what that place requires. any deviation from that formula and the bartenders end up standing still looking at the dj going wtf? because everyone left.
very tempermental clientelle there.
simple formula 2 CDJ's, DJM-700, TSP + Audio 8 & 1 USB cable held together with 80s, Indie, Spanish Rock with a sprinkle of Ska or Punk Rock. |
Candace Carmouche
18.01.2011 | you have to go to little cave on a evening
when jesc is having issues with gear. trust me, hes seen them all and again trust me. at the cave he plays exactly the same kind of set, every sunday because thats what that place requires. any deviation from that formula and the bartenders end up standing still looking at the dj going wtf? because everyone left.
very tempermental clientelle there. |
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
if you're serious about your trade, you'll learn to use any and all tools available because you never know when a club owner is going to make a wierd decision like (i want my guys to only run serato/traktor/cdj's/turntables) because "a friend told him thats the thing to do".
if you're serious about your trade, you'll respectfully tell such people to fuck off; works for me. but then I don't really make my living as a DJ so I can afford to show a little more self-respect which, from a lower angle, is usually perceived as arrogance.
Originally Posted by xtianw
also you never know when a bug is going to get introduced to your favorite piece of software that prevents you from using it for the time being (until a bug fix for whatever the issue is gets released). I dont ever want to be in that position.
which is why you don't upgrade your software right before a gig and bring a backup laptop.
Originally Posted by xtianw
I wish you guys all knew JesC personally. That guy can play on ANYTHING. Exactly the same set if need be.
a good DJ will rock a set on a pair of belt-driven noname turntables if need be. but "exactly the same set" - never. |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
you guys will make up the most unbelivable shit about anyone that isnt NI. what(sic) did someone at serato skullfuck everyones mother and you guys just dont want to talk about it?
Lulz. I maintain that I'm more afraid of trusting NI than several other companies. I trust them more than Stanton and Gemini at this point, but that might be it.
this is really off topic, but |
Cristian Carmona
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
I wish you guys all knew JesC personally. That guy can play on ANYTHING. Exactly the same set if need be.
Thats what I strive for personally now. Equal knowledge and ability on ALL tools available to the digital dj.
Thanks man!
I enjoy djing. I don't give a rats ass if it's on SSL, TSP, or CDs on a numark mix station.
The software doesn't make you a better DJ, it's the person behind the decks! |
Candace Carmouche
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by josh@firestorm
i wasn't implying that you put a bit of mayonaise on the story.. i was implying that they did in what they were telling you.
i have a feeling they are doing a bit of an apple... selling their product to wholesalers at an extreme markup, maximising their own profits. not unlike apple (i believe retailers only make about 9-10% profit selling macbooks for example)
i hate to do this but...
*citation needed*
im sorry, but your imagination isnt enough for me to go on.
guys really. wtf? you guys will make up the most unbelivable shit about anyone that isnt NI.
what did someone at serato skullfuck everyones mother and you guys just dont want to talk about it?
honestly, i really dont get. i really dont. |
Ninfa Larranaga
18.01.2011 | its called marketing |
Jacque Divinity
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
not according to the serato employee's i spoke to at namm for several hours over 4 days. its not like i pulled that out of my ass. its actually something we had a half hour conversation about.
i wasn't implying that you put a bit of mayonaise on the story.. i was implying that they did in what they were telling you.
i have a feeling they are doing a bit of an apple... selling their product to wholesalers at an extreme markup, maximising their own profits. not unlike apple (i believe retailers only make about 9-10% profit selling macbooks for example) |
Nedra Fresneda
18.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
I've never mapped SSL, but compared to Ableton Live, Traktor's midi mapping takes forever, has a bunch of useless options laid out in weird ways, assumes things it shouldn't, doesn't assume things it should, and appears to only be more powerful in the aspect that you can assign multiple controls to a single parameter.
a) it's easier to map simple/direct things in live but not all traktor's commands are displayed in the UI (ie: reverse playback)
b) what about output mapping, modifiers?
traktor shows it's strength with complex maps |
Julissa Serrone
18.01.2011 | digital vinyl system
aka
timecode |
Mirta Follweiler
18.01.2011 | What is "dvs"? |
Dorie Scelzo
18.01.2011 | Sorry for what I helped start.
Originally Posted by JuanSOLO
You get post fader FX with Serato.
You also get them in Traktor if you use an external mixer and set it up correctly.
Originally Posted by padi_04
Traktor's mapping is harder, but the results you get from it in complex maps are well worth the learning curve.
Edit: Actually, scratch that. It's dead easy, just has a crappy fixed size window that makes the work tedious.
I've never mapped SSL, but compared to Ableton Live, Traktor's midi mapping takes forever, has a bunch of useless options laid out in weird ways, assumes things it shouldn't, doesn't assume things it should, and appears to only be more powerful in the aspect that you can assign multiple controls to a single parameter.
Originally Posted by tombruton69
I believe most serato users get it cuz it easier to set up and all they want to do is play a commercial club play one song then fade it at the end to another maybe beat match one bar of the songs together. |
Candace Carmouche
17.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by josh@firestorm
thats's cool and all.. but take that with a grain of salt (to a point)..
plasma tv's for example sell for $1000's but cost about $50 to produce.
cell phones cost carriers on average about $30-$40 a unit, but the sell them to you bundled in a contract for $1000's
i know that serato hardware isn't produced in the millions of units so their production costs are going to be higher obviously, but the serato company still dictates what the final selling point is going to be.
not according to the serato employee's i spoke to at namm for several hours over 4 days. its not like i pulled that out of my ass. its actually something we had a half hour conversation about. |
Candace Carmouche
17.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by dafe
If I ask a plumber to fix my piping with a sledgehammer, regardless of how serious I am in my request, the plumber is still terrible at his job if he does it.
the point he should have made, was not wrench vs sledgehammer. but rather, a plumber refusing to work on a pipe because he was handed snap on tools rather than makita, or craftsman for that matter. a pipe wrench from the 3 vendors would essentially be the same, one may lock a little differently, or have its ratched grip in a different place than the other. perhaps a basic locking system thats different than the other. but all 3 wrenches are essentially the same, do the same job, and just have slight differences.
the whole sledgehammer vs wrench comment was sensationalist at best. |
Audrey Pinda
17.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by dafe
If I ask a plumber to fix my piping with a sledgehammer, regardless of how serious I am in my request, the plumber is still terrible at his job if he does it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4cW5mfBRE8 |
Jacque Divinity
17.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
thats a twisted way of putting it. and not really that accurate.
Serato's customer's arent end users. Their customers are hardware manufacturers. They don't charge for the software to end users. They make hardware manufacturers pay for rights to let their hardware use Serato software.
It's the hardware manufacturer that sets the price of an item. Serato has nothing to do with that decision.
Serato is a pretty small company in size. I talked with the guys at namm about this very topic and basically what it came down to was this. Their business model makes a few things happen for them.
a) hardware manufacturer pays them enough so its worth it for them to continue making software and updates.
b) it allows them to not have to worry about certain r&d costs (they dont pay to develop any hardware, rather they just develop a spec and communication protocal that hardware manufacturers make new hardware around while adhereing to the 1:1 mapping philosophy that Serato has)
c) they dont have to worry about having drivers for hardware developed and coded, this is also on the hardware manufacturers end (not sure if you're aware, but a driver developer will charge you almost as much as it cost to develop your entire software package, just to write the driver. albeit driver development is a LOT of low level programming and requires an extreme knowledge of mathmatics to pull off. its not something any old .net dev could handle in his wildest dreams).
d) their model also allows them to license their technology and share profits with other companies to keep their development costs down while maximizing profitability (like their partnership with ableton).
its an interesting business model. personally, as a guy thats studied business and finance i believe its pure genius. no matter how good or bad their product does, they still make more than enough liquid to remain profittable.
but the point being, if you have a problem with the cost of serato hardware, take it up with rane, numark, vestax, pioneer, and allen and heath. The one thing Serato doesnt have a say in, is how much a hardware manufacturer charges for their hardare. That conversation is between the hardware manufacturer and its dealers. It's also why Pioneer is about to ship a 1600 dollar itch controller. If Serato had their say, that thing would have only been about a grand.
thats's cool and all.. but take that with a grain of salt (to a point)..
plasma tv's for example sell for $1000's but cost about $50 to produce.
cell phones cost carriers on average about $30-$40 a unit, but the sell them to you bundled in a contract for $1000's
i know that serato hardware isn't produced in the millions of units so their production costs are going to be higher obviously, but the serato company still dictates what the final selling point is going to be. |
Nedra Fresneda
17.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by dafe
If I ask a plumber to fix my piping with a sledgehammer, regardless of how serious I am in my request, the plumber is still terrible at his job if he does it.
make sure you get that on tape |
Scarlett Saupp
17.01.2011 |
Originally Posted by xtianw
I believe if you're serious about your trade, you'll learn to use any and all tools available because you never know when a club owner is going to make a wierd decision like (i want my guys to only run serato/traktor/cdj's/turntables) because "a friend told him thats the thing to do".
If I ask a plumber to fix my piping with a sledgehammer, regardless of how serious I am in my request, the plumber is still terrible at his job if he does it. |
