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Should I get over my prejudice/ignorance/snobbery for WAV and change to mp3?

Home :: General Discussion :: Should I get over my prejudice/ignorance/snobbery for WAV and change to mp3?Reply

Should I get over my prejudice/ignorance/snobbery for WAV and change to mp3? Posted on: 24.04.2012 by Lin Danek A combination of audiophile snobbery, ignorance, prejudice and an ability to convince myself that I CAN hear the difference has resulted in me only buying WAV files from Beatport and JunoDownload. I am also fortunate enough to have a 500GB ASUS NJ61 that only has my (stripped) OS, Traktor and music library on it. Our currency is about to hit 8 Rands to 1 Dollar and I am reconsidering the cost of WAV upgrades. I've read the science (I'm sick of reading about WAV's "voracious appetite for disc space" and "once lost with compression, always lost to compression") but want to hear from this community. 1. Is WAV REALLY worth it? 2. Will I notice the difference? I really appreciate the sound quality of the S4 and don't want it compromised.
Dorie Scelzo 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by MrPopinjay I wasn't referring to you mostapha Oh, I'm aware. My results were very clear (assuming there's not a problem with the test or that familiarity with the tracks influenced it), but I was mostly focusing on very quiet things that I'd never hear in a club. That's part of why I don't put a whole heap of stock in things Tony Andrews says. I've never heard his sound systems without earplugs in because, well, I like being able to hear things. And I've never heard a Function One system that wasn't so loud people had to shout from 6" away to have a conversation…with ridiculous room verb and a whole host of other issues. The only thing he's completely right about is that a horrible listening environment (parallel walls, complex shapes, lots of noise, etc.) is no excuse to skimp on the sound system…and I don't believe he's actually made that point……just comes out of what he says.
Kiyoko Wellisch 10.05.2012	I wasn't referring to you mostapha
Dorie Scelzo 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by Xonetacular Oh man this gearslutz thread is loads of fun already … Originally Posted by Xonetacular As expected this gearsluts thread is hilarious. A lot of arguing back and forth and people bitching and I don't believe a single one of them has actually downloaded and taken the test, has anyone submitted results over there? Not a single PM. eighty something responses in iike 12 hours…not one person has taken it. Originally Posted by MaxOne I opened it up in Peak Pro to listen to it and saw very slight differences with the waveforms. Just little variations in the patterns in the peaks. I'm aware. There's no way around that. Originally Posted by TCMuc If your hearing deviates from "normal", maybe because you have some kind of ear damage, you may well perceive the difference between mp3 and WAV much more than others.. That is definitely possible. I have some oddly specific damage to one ear from an ear infection a few years ago. I didn't believe about that. Originally Posted by SherpaPsy Tony says it all so much better than I can. I agree with everything he says. Oh its a bit out there, 24 bit 96kHz acceptable, anything else is a compromise? Well he does have a point, our ears can hear that well and we should should treat them with love and respect. I'll see you tony and raise you some guy: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html He makes a very good argument, and I know some of what Tony says is snake oil, so……there's that side. Originally Posted by 3heads Oh, and would you care to elaborate on your proposed connection between playing out mp3s and not understanding gain structure and audio chains? I'm not quite sure what he's getting at, but…uhh……if you're playing wavs because they sound better and clipping your mixer, you should probably just give up. Originally Posted by MrPopinjay I'm always confused as to why people believe an untreated club with a horrifically loud sound system making the walls vibrate sounds clearer than a home setup. That's why I said I could never hear it at club volumes. We answered that a long time ago, now we're having an argument about whether the difference is audible at all……perhaps I misunderstood.
Kiyoko Wellisch 10.05.2012	I'm always confused as to why people believe an untreated club with a horrifically loud sound system making the walls vibrate sounds clearer than a home setup.
Danae Dumler 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by SherpaPsy I wonder how many of you who play out with mp3's understand gain structure and audio chains. That's kind of the point here; these things are going to make FAR more of a difference than WAV vs. 320 mp3. I don't believe I would hear the difference in a club, even on Funktion One, even with an mp3 mixed into a WAV (or vice versa) side-by-side. I might possibly notice something through very careful listening to the noise floor during breakdowns or something, but that doesn't sound like a lot of fun at a bumpin' club. Whereas I will notice a clipping signal immediately and probably leave the club if the DJ keeps that up.
Layne Koop 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by SherpaPsy Sure you can, just don't show up at a venue with Funktion One loudspeakers. Funktion One, installed in a club, are (almost) certainly NOT as good a listening environment than a reasonable home studio with basic acoustical treatment and a pair of "reference" monitors. At least if you are looking for a "transparent" PA system. Originally Posted by SherpaPsy Then again I wonder how many of you who play out with mp3's understand gain structure and audio chains. I do. On both counts.
Celestine Porebski 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by SherpaPsy Sure you can, just don't show up at a venue with Funktion One loudspeakers. I really don't get the point of this argument - its really very simple. MP3's and the like are lossy compressions of the source audio, the fidelity of the original has been degraded, its quality is impaired, reduced, diminished - why would anyone who considers their profession to be playing audio files, want to serve anything but the best to their clients? Then again I wonder how many of you who play out with mp3's understand gain structure and audio chains. Why don't you just take the test and see what your results say? Might be an interesting experience for you. Oh, and would you care to elaborate on your proposed connection between playing out mp3s and not understanding gain structure and audio chains?
Roseanna Signorini 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by SherpaPsy Sure you can, just don't show up at a venue with Funktion One loudspeakers. I really don't get the point of this argument - its really very simple. MP3's and the like are lossy compressions of the source audio, the fidelity of the original has been degraded, its quality is impaired, reduced, diminished - why would anyone who considers their profession to be playing audio files, want to serve anything but the best to their clients? Then again I wonder how many of you who play out with mp3's understand gain structure and audio chains. I don't know how much you have been following the thread or if you have read the entire thing. Mostapha posted a a link to a test he created to test who can tell the difference between an 320 mp3 and a wav file. The difference if there is any is so miniscule that you really really really have to listen and know what to listen for in order to catch even a glimpse of anything. As has been stated, mp3 removes the frequencies and noise that the human ear can't hear anyway. There is not a single person on the planet at any club through any loudspeaker in any venue on the planet that will be able to hear even the smallest difference. I believe everyone who has been following this thread and has tried the test will agree with me.
Nilsa Erben 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by dj matt blaze So in the realm of this thread and the point of the thread from the beginning....you can switch to MP3. Sure you can, just don't show up at a venue with Funktion One loudspeakers. I really don't get the point of this argument - its really very simple. MP3's and the like are lossy compressions of the source audio, the fidelity of the original has been degraded, its quality is impaired, reduced, diminished - why would anyone who considers their profession to be playing audio files, want to serve anything but the best to their clients? Then again I wonder how many of you who play out with mp3's understand gain structure and audio chains.
Roseanna Signorini 10.05.2012	OK so I have a few things to conclude from all this. My arguement was never about wav and mp3 being equal files, WAV is a better file, and yes you can easily see it in a prgram showing the waveform. My arguement was that if you can tell the difference between an mp3 and a wav then I should be able to play you a file and you should be able to tell me what it is. Mostapha admitted without the ABX format of the test that he couldn't do it. He also admitted that he doesn't know if he could do it with music he isn't familiar with. Yes, I know to listen to reverb trails and fades and I too felt that the wav sounds "brighter" but again we are all only human and all equally suseptable to our own ideas. So in my believeing, an uncompressed wav is more open equaling brighter, a compressed mp3 is more closed equaling more flat. Is it really like that OR is that just my perception of what a wav and mp3 is supposed to sound like and my mind playing tricks on me to believe I am hearing an mp3 or wav when really that difference of "brighter" or "flat" doesn't even exist. I didn't do the test with headphones. I came out of my built in computer soundcard going into my old Fostex 280 Multitracker to a pair of Sony SMS-1P monitors. So lets get real. If you have to listen on a pair of headphones, listen to the tracks 10 times, listen really really hard to hear the slightest most miniscule difference, does it matter? I mean really, who listens for the noise floor?? So in the realm of this thread and the point of the thread from the beginning....you can switch to MP3.
Layne Koop 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by sarasin only time I can say that I have heard it on a big system, Most "big systems" produce "louder" sound, not "better" sound (for some unspecified definition of "better"). The additional SPL alters the perception of the sound - see the Equal Loudness Curve for more. The increase in volume tends to make the lows & highs more "perceivable"...and buries the "mids" in that mix. In general, as the mp3 bitrate drops, the lows and highs are removed in increasing amounts (at least the LAME encoder does this). These bits are used to help "reinforce" the mids....this is also explained in the Equal Loudness Curves. For "moderate" listening volumes, human hearing is most sensitive in the mids. In practical applications...that means something like this: My PA is "flat to 40Hz". BUT, I tend to tune it to play between 45Hz-16kHz. The shift from 40-45Hz allows me to almost double the applied power to the subs without fear of hitting the Xmax. And my own hearing is LONG gond by 16kHz....so I can't tell how that sounds at all. Ironically, that tuning gets the best overall reviews...because almost no entry to mid level PA gear can operate outside that range. So, for the younglings who can still hear above 16kHz....they are not accustomed to hearing in that range, so that sound is "distracting" from the remaining content.
Romelia Stankard 10.05.2012	As expected this gearsluts thread is hilarious. A lot of arguing back and forth and people bitching and I don't believe a single one of them has actually downloaded and taken the test, has anyone submitted results over there?
Lin Danek 10.05.2012	Feel the need to weigh in at this point - - using S4 with built-in soundcard - Senny HD25 lls and BOSE QC15s - Rokit 6's - only have WAV files in my library and tracks imported off CD using Apple Lossless With a rapid-fire initial listen I'm hearing differences Full test results to follow (gulp) Thanks again Mostapha - good job
Nilsa Erben 10.05.2012	Tony says it all so much better than I can. I agree with everything he says. Oh its a bit out there, 24 bit 96kHz acceptable, anything else is a compromise? Well he does have a point, our ears can hear that well and we should should treat them with love and respect. www.youtube.com/watch?v=knUnWf2Lh9k
Nikole Resende 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha I know that this test shows that I'm hearing something that apparently other people aren't. But I'm starting to wonder exactly what it was. It's weird, because I'm one of the ones who can hear a difference. And actually doing the test has just about convinced me that the difference doesn't matter that much. A reason why you actually can hear a difference could by the way come from some kind of hearing damage... I've read about this but couldn't find the source atm. If I find it I'll post it later. The explanation goes as follows: mp3 encoders work based on a model of human hearing (with healthy ears..). The compression thus is based on cutting frequencies that are inaudible to the human ear, remove sounds that are masked behind other sounds, and use masking algorhythms to conceal possible artifacts behind the music. If your hearing deviates from "normal", maybe because you have some kind of ear damage, you may well perceive the difference between mp3 and WAV much more than others..
Hipolito Scionti 10.05.2012	Fair play Mostapha. Good work I've done half the test, gonna do the other half over the weekend probably. I believe I can tell a difference. WAV just a slight touch brighter and cleaner with more "depth" but it's incredibly slight. Certainly nothing to write home about. I was using HD25IIs coming straight from Audio 10. The only problem is it's pretty easy to cheat... I opened it up in Peak Pro to listen to it and saw very slight differences with the waveforms. Just little variations in the patterns in the peaks. Because you have the comparisons at the top of each test you can see which is which. For the purposes of the test I did it with out looking obviously. But if I wanted I'm certain i could turn in a 100% correct results just by looking at the waveforms... Just thought id say
Romelia Stankard 10.05.2012	Oh man this gearslutz thread is loads of fun already http://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...n-mp3-wav.html
Lilliana Perris 10.05.2012	I have noticed it plenty, but also because I know the culprits...so end up listening for it. So I guess thats not exactly accurate either...
Danae Dumler 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by sarasin only time I can say that I have heard it on a big system, is if someone is playing Wav's AND MP3's. If he just played a Wav, then mixed an MP3 after it, you can hear its dull. If he played ONLY MP3's, I would never hear it. I'm not even sure I would notice this. It's one thing to notice a difference between two formats of the same song - you can compare sounds pretty directly. But it's quite another to notice it with different songs entirely, even mixed into each other. Unless there's a major volume or frequency change I'm not sure I would notice it at all, and if I did notice anything I would assume I was hearing poor mixing rather than wav/mp3 differences.
Lilliana Perris 10.05.2012	only time I can say that I have heard it on a big system, is if someone is playing Wav's AND MP3's. If he just played a Wav, then mixed an MP3 after it, you can hear its dull. If he played ONLY MP3's, I would never hear it.
Celestine Porebski 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by sarasin I even catch myself doing it at home....when mixing. Bring in a track...decide its tight as fuck! Then notice the X Fader is all the way to one side. Thus only 1 track is playing....DOH! Stoners... Haha, happens to absolutely everybody. Was mixing in a tune during a gig (at least I thought I was) until I noticed (after 30seconds or so of careful mixing) that I was pushing up a line-fader on a channel I wasn't even using
Lilliana Perris 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj Every sound engineer I have every talked to has a tale of tweaking a song to perfection...only to find that the EQ/effects/whatever were bypassed the whole time. If you find someone who will not admit to that they are "new" or a "liar." It took me about 5 years of tweaking sound systems to catch myself doing that exact thing. I adjusted the !@#% out of a system...only to find out that the whole rack I had been working with was completely out of the loop. HAHAHA..yep! This is too true also! I even catch myself doing it at home....when mixing. Bring in a track...decide its tight as fuck! Then notice the X Fader is all the way to one side. Thus only 1 track is playing....DOH! Stoners... But I have also done it PLENTY while producing...PLENTY!
Rolanda Clodfelder 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha It's on Georgia Tech's webspace <3 gigabit lan hops away from a top-level router. If it's slow, either it's your downstream or they're throttling it
Dorie Scelzo 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by deevey I'll give this a go when the file finally downloads and I have the 45 mins to spare...you need a faster host for the file :P It's on Georgia Tech's webspace <3 gigabit lan hops away from a top-level router. If it's slow, either it's your downstream or they're throttling it……which means I might have a nasty email waiting for me. @djproben, I'll look at those. Should be interesting. Originally Posted by djproben seriously, if you're listening for a slight smudge on the attack of a snare sound when you're playing "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life", you're doin' it wrong... That might be the single most intelligent sentence in this entire thread.
Celestine Porebski 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by dj matt blaze I took the test. Im the guy who said you can't hear a difference and yes there was instances where I was like, "ok this is the mp3" and then the next trial comes on and I'm like "wait, no this is the mp3 and that last 1 was the wav" Then all those years of test taking comes into play with...I just said wav 3 times in a row, this 1 has to be an mp3 and the mind plays tricks. Im not surprised at the difficulty. Haha, the same phenomena happened to me. I even sometimes changed some stuff around while listening to the next trial - might not have been the smartest move. Overall the results show I can not reliably tell them apart (didn't expect myself to be able to, though). As for your question mostapha, I don't have a clear idea what to listen for, mostly I tried observing the low end (as that's the thing where the difference between 320kbps and 192kbps mp3s becomes really apparent - I just adapted that observation). For some of the songs I had the impression I could hear a difference during demo-mode, but telling them apart during trials was still mostly guesswork. Other songs sounded virtually the same even when demoed in the beginning. I did the test on Yamaha Hs80Ms (the rest of the signal chain shouldn't matter I guess, but for completeness' sake: Audio8 -> Rodec MX-180 mk2 -> Hs80M)
Danae Dumler 10.05.2012	Here's someone else who did null tests - he was testing FLAC vs WAV (as expected, the null test result was null) but he also tested FLAC vs mp3 and while there is clearly a signal in the null test, it doesn't look very loud: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/bl...experiment-94/ (note that his m4a part of the experiment is invalid as it used different source files, but the WAV/mp3 comparison used the same files). If you want to listen to the results of a null test, here's one: http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2010/04/...en-wav-vs-mp3/ ... the file definitely has content though it's not much. There are differences but based on this information it is minimal, and the most noticeable differences will be at frequencies that many of us can't even hear (16k here). Downloading the soundtest file now to see what results I get. I believe I agree with the above though; if there is a difference it is very subtle, and certainly wouldn't be noticeable in a large noisy venue (and probably not even at a more intimate setting on a nice home system without almost cartoonishly careful listening). I mean seriously, if you're listening for a slight smudge on the attack of a snare sound when you're playing "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life", you're doin' it wrong...
Rolanda Clodfelder 10.05.2012	I'll give this a go when the file finally downloads and I have the 45 mins to spare...you need a faster host for the file :P
Dorie Scelzo 10.05.2012	Originally Posted by dj matt blaze :eyeroll: why am I not surprised at that result? 'cuz I'm awesome. Originally Posted by Xonetacular I can't wait to see the gearslutz thread- make the thread title a challenge to get people riled up over it and do it in the electronic music production subcommunity , I can guarantee it will be a massive thread and full of entertainment, threatened egos, and interesting results. Good idea. I was wondering where it'd fit in. It's up. If you see it go off the front page, I'd appreciate a bump. Originally Posted by Xonetacular As for my results, I can't really tell the difference- didn't expect to be able to but I was very surprised with just how little of a difference there was. During the intro I could hear some subtle things when introducing .wav and .mp3 but once that actual test started it all seemed to go out the window. That actually happened to me on a few of them, coincidentally I got a 4 and a couple 6s on the ones I remembered being that way. The only reason my results look different so far is that I got a 10/10, two 9/10, and an 8/10. The 10/10 one was very obvious to me. One of them has a sound fading basically enough so that the noise floor becomes audible…and the noise floor sounded different between the two files. After that, it was just a matter of remembering which was which. I'm pretty sure the 8 and 9s were reverb tails on hi hats, but I don't remember them as specifically. I will say that that I've never been able to hear that at a venue. I wouldn't expect anyone to hear it. If nothing else, the earplugs you should be wearing and/or the crowd noise should easily cover up the noise floor in the file…assuming nothing else in the processing chain does. Anyway, I committed my answers via PM as I said I would. And after he submits, I'll share my google spreadsheet with him so he can check it if he likes (been keeping people's results in different files for convenience). But, my average was 7.3 with a standard deviation of 1.767 for a T-score of 4.12, which is well above the T critical value of 1.833 for a one-tailed test which gives p<.05. So, in this test, I can hear a difference, though it is very subtle. Without the ABX structure, I couldn't do it. And it might have colored my results that I was familiar with all of the music. The songs weren't chosen because they showed things that mp3 compression screwed up, but I knew what to listen for in the tracks before the reference passes because I'd heard all of them (as lossless) a dozen times before if not more. I'm not completely convinced that the results would be the same if it was all music I hadn't heard before unless it was a clip that accentuated one of the obvious things (like in the track I got 10/10 on and had no questions about). Doing deeper analysis of the files was weird, though. The one I randomly chose to look at closer, I did a null test on…and it only nulled to -16dB. For those that don't know what that means, if you play two identical audio files with the phase reversed in one of them, the result should just be the noise floor of your system (noise in your mixer, converters, amp, etc.). For that clip, the null test peaked at -16dB…which means either that logic sucks at snapping audio files to a grid or normalizing files or that the things people can't hear are that loud. I'm beginning to wonder if what I was hearing was flaws in Logic's normalizing. The weirder thing was looking at a frequency analyzer of it. The vast majority of what was left over was in the low mids, bass, and sub-bass. There was basically nothing above 400Hz IIRC with a bump around 200 and a lot below 100, which my headphones probably weren't playing much of anyway. Strangely enough, that also means that it might be more apparent (if you're listening to whatever's in the null file instead of the noise floor) at club volumes. If I'm reading fletcher-munson curves correctly, people are more sensitive to sounds < 400Hz at 100dB SPL than they are at 50dB SPL. Also, I'm starting to wonder why the normalization was even necessary. Is there any reason why an mp3 (converted back to wav before being imported to Logic) would peak at a different level than the unprocessed wav file? I'm mostly curious about this since i was trying to hear the noise floor in so many of the clips…if it was actually louder in one than the other because of the normalization, that could have given it away without having much to do with the mp3 compression itself. I know that this test shows that I'm hearing something that apparently other people aren't. But I'm starting to wonder exactly what it was. It's weird, because I'm one of the ones who can hear a difference. And actually doing the test has just about convinced me that the difference doesn't matter that much. Did I really put in that much work only to end up proving that I'm right but concluding that it doesn't matter? Weird. I need another drink. Edit: oh yeah…if you've done the test or are going to, please let me know whether or not you believe you know what to listen for (regardless of whether or not you believe you did well) and what you did the test on (what headphones/monitors/etc.) so I can play with statistics some more. I like statistics.
Romelia Stankard 09.05.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha I'll make it even easier: http://community .djranking s.com/showthr...126#post474126 I have results for xone, matt blaze, 3heads, and myself. I'd like to get a few more so I can do a different analysis on it. For a quick preview…my results show that I can hear the difference. Matt blaze already said his results showed he couldn't, but I'll let the others share their own. I'd like to get some more people to do the test before I comment openly about a few things I noticed. I'm kind of amazed that the scores for one of the songs was so low…I got 10/10 on the one that I thought I did. But after hearing the demos, something jumped out at me that was like a giant neon sign. A really subtle one, but still. xone suggested posting it on other community s. So, I'll do that and keep a log of the results (i'll have names but won't publish them). DJF, ALDJF, and GearSlutz are on the list. Any other suggestions? I can't wait to see the gearslutz thread- make the thread title a challenge to get people riled up over it and do it in the electronic music production subcommunity , I can guarantee it will be a massive thread and full of entertainment, threatened egos, and interesting results. As for my results, I can't really tell the difference- didn't expect to be able to but I was very surprised with just how little of a difference there was. During the intro I could hear some subtle things when introducing .wav and .mp3 but once that actual test started it all seemed to go out the window.
Roseanna Signorini 09.05.2012	For a quick preview…my results show that I can hear the difference. :eyeroll: why am I not surprised at that result?
Danae Dumler 09.05.2012	I'll be doing the test too but might not get it done toevening
Dorie Scelzo 09.05.2012	I'll make it even easier: http://community .djranking s.com/showthr...126#post474126 I have results for xone, matt blaze, 3heads, and myself. I'd like to get a few more so I can do a different analysis on it. For a quick preview…my results show that I can hear the difference. Matt blaze already said his results showed he couldn't, but I'll let the others share their own. I'd like to get some more people to do the test before I comment openly about a few things I noticed. I'm kind of amazed that the scores for one of the songs was so low…I got 10/10 on the one that I thought I did. But after hearing the demos, something jumped out at me that was like a giant neon sign. A really subtle one, but still. xone suggested posting it on other community s. So, I'll do that and keep a log of the results (i'll have names but won't publish them). DJF, ALDJF, and GearSlutz are on the list. Any other suggestions?
Roseanna Signorini 09.05.2012	Originally Posted by Nicky H Ta mate - couldn't be arsed looking thru ... anyone know an online one? talk about lazy, its on page 17 dude....
Romelia Stankard 09.05.2012	Sent in my results. I don't really believe I can tell in most cases on a blind test, I don't know exactly what to look for and while I may be able to hear some things as soon as it is a blind comparison it just seems like pure guessing on some tracks, some tracks there is a little more info but still it's not easy.
Janyce Henningson 09.05.2012	Ta mate - couldn't be arsed looking thru ... anyone know an online one?
Roseanna Signorini 09.05.2012	Originally Posted by Nicky H Haven't looked through everything - is there an online test where u can A/B mp3 and wav? Look back through this thread, Mostapha has a link to a test that he created. I took the test and as expected I was right less than 50% of the time whether it mp3 or wav.
Janyce Henningson 09.05.2012	Haven't looked through everything - is there an online test where u can A/B mp3 and wav?
Dorie Scelzo 09.05.2012	Originally Posted by SirReal But when you can A/B between an MP3 & Wav of the same file there are noticable difference in audio. You hear it in both the upper and lower registers and especially in glissando's, reverb tails and long sustained fades. That's why I was hoping the audio used in Mostapha's test would be a cross section of all kinds of music and not just dance tracks. It's mostly modern dance, do I hope you're not disappointed. Unfortunately, the only music I have in lossless/uncompressed formats are songs that I've dj'd with and CDs that I've recently obtained. Also, I'd kinda like to know whether people believe they can hear a difference (if you feel like sharing) and whether they know what, specifically whether or not you know what to listen to.
Roseanna Signorini 09.05.2012	Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj Every sound engineer I have every talked to has a tale of tweaking a song to perfection...only to find that the EQ/effects/whatever were bypassed the whole time. If you find someone who will not admit to that they are "new" or a "liar." It took me about 5 years of tweaking sound systems to catch myself doing that exact thing. I adjusted the !@#% out of a system...only to find out that the whole rack I had been working with was completely out of the loop. the first 5 min of this video already explains exactly what I have been saying....
Layne Koop 09.05.2012	Originally Posted by SirReal I will say that if you really can't tell the difference between 320MP3 and wav then I know I'd never use you as a mixer, editor or mastering engineer. Every sound engineer I have every talked to has a tale of tweaking a song to perfection...only to find that the EQ/effects/whatever were bypassed the whole time. If you find someone who will not admit to that they are "new" or a "liar." It took me about 5 years of tweaking sound systems to catch myself doing that exact thing. I adjusted the !@#% out of a system...only to find out that the whole rack I had been working with was completely out of the loop.

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Should I get over my prejudice/ignorance/snobbery for WAV and change to mp3?