Calvin Harris
and Dillon Francis
worked there... no way!
| Most DJs suck? Before you read this: by writing this I’m not saying that I’m some super crazy DJ, I still have a lot to learn myself. This is just something I’ve felt for a long time and I’d like to get some insight on how other people feel about this. Also, I’m talking mostly about club djing here.
edit: after some discussion, i realized the thread title was a little misleading. just because a dj isn't technical doesn't make them a bad dj, and thats not what I'm going for here
I got a chance to see dj spinbad and dj starting from scratch over the weekend (they played a set at a Russell Peters show). Their set was AMAZING and blew my mind. They were doing something truly artistic and were essentially making something new on stage. Slick cuts, juggling, acapellas, etc. It made me believe, why isn’t the standard for djs a little bit higher? Why aren’t big touring djs and resident djs expected to put some skill into what they do?
Overall, I believe its safe to say that the majority of djs don’t really engage in the technical aspects of djing; they don’t necessarily “make” something new, they often just beat match between two tunes and call it a day. Some people like to pat themselves on the back for beatmatching, phase matching, phrase matching, etc. but as A-trak said: no one ever complimented a dj on how artistically they beat match. Spending a week learning basic beat matching and having an interest in a specific genre of music (which is something virtually something everyone has) is basically enough to make a mix that would be considered “acceptable”. I find that a lot of djs just reach this acceptable level and then don't feel the need to learn beyond that.
Does anyone else see a problem with this? Everyone complains about aoki, guetta, etc. jut hitting play, but how many regular djs do anything more than that? Along with this, its almost become the standard for people to believe of djs as “record player players”. I was reading the paper this morning and the review of the show stated “also appearing was DJ Sarting from Scratch and DJ Spinbad but neither brought much to the evening as canned music would have easily filled the same role”. After perhaps dj craze, these guys played the craziest set I’ve seen in my life. Tonnes of live mashes, cutting etc. between each other all by ear. They were incredibly technical and not messy in the slightest. Also they were about 20 feet away from eachother so they couldn’t communicate or screen peak. Because we’ve set the standard so low, DJs who are actually talented don’t get the props they deserve. Because the majority of DJs themselves are ok with being at the "acceptable" level (and don't strive to do anything necessarily creative), people don't seem to make a distinction between a quality dj and your average joe.
sorry for the novel, just something I wanted to discuss here opinions? | Valeri Holderness
02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
The problem there is that performing to the limits of the gear
sounds so fucking awful/boring on the most part, see undanceable fx-laden pseudo-turntablism or Sasha's megasnore Ableton sets.
i believe what he meant to say is that people need to stop limiting themselves because technology now allows to do more than you ever could before. sure its gona sound messy and fx-laden at first, but its the same with any other instrument when you first start playing. my parents still have evening
mares from when i first started playing the saxophone. maybe some guys use too many fx and maybe sasha has boring sets, but theres tonnes of other guys doing great stuff with controllers. hell i play with 3/4 decks myself when i play out. at first it sounded pretty awful, but as i learned more about layering properly and using samples, my sets have gained their own unique flare to them and i've built up alright following because of that.
Originally Posted by rdubs
The simple answer here is: most of the "big names" you refer to are known for their original productions. The reason people go see them is to hear their tracks, not to hear them slice up other tracks and all kinds of stuff like that. Sure they play others tracks as well, but when you are known for producing your own music, you are expected to play your hits when you play out.
but what about your regular club djs though? most of them don't produce and most of them don't go beyond what these big names are doing | Cindie Brodskaya
02.10.2012 | The simple answer here is: most of the "big names" you refer to are known for their original productions. The reason people go see them is to hear their tracks, not to hear them slice up other tracks and all kinds of stuff like that. Sure they play others tracks as well, but when you are known for producing your own music, you are expected to play your hits when you play out. |
02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Patch
You know what will happen? A new wave of DJ's, that did not know about the previous generations (gear
) limitations will pick up software/controllers and (I HOPE!) turntables, and start to perform to the limits of the EQUIPMENT, not he limits they impose on themselves because of the 8hr marathon set they heard from 1992.
The problem there is that performing to the limits of the gear
sounds so fucking awful/boring on the most part, see undanceable fx-laden pseudo-turntablism or Sasha's megasnore Ableton sets. | Hanna Ridenbaugh
02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Patch
I've been excited for YEARS about what is posible now - but I don't see the scene progressing at the ame rate as the gear
.
+1 | Brunilda Kora
02.10.2012 | Cool thread. Most DJ's are not very creative - and tune selection/programming a set (creating an "atmosphere") is NOT difficult. It is the most natural thing in the world, and can (and will) ONLY come with experience.
I believe as a whole, DJ's are NOT creative enough. Years ago, we were REALLY limited with what was possible due to the gear we had available. These limitations are GONE now, and, unfortunately, the vast number of DJ's out there STILL limit theirselves to what WAS possible - not what IS possible. Some DJ's believe "Judge Jules is not creative, and he's successful - why should I try harder?"...
You know what will happen? A new wave of DJ's, that did not know about the previous generations (gear
) limitations will pick up software/controllers and (I HOPE!) turntables, and start to perform to the limits of the EQUIPMENT, not he limits they impose on themselves because of the 8hr marathon set they heard from 1992.
I've been excited for YEARS about what is posible now - but I don't see the scene progressing at the ame rate as the gear
. | Cassie Sangermano
02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdale
Kind of silly, but when I first got traktor i had a dedicated day of reviewing the manual while messing with it... it was part of the fun, it is a lot more in depth than any other application I had been using to dj previously. Sure I wanted to be banging out and just playing, but there are so many features a day with the manual was fun too.
I always try and read manuals of programs/hardware that i am going to purchase before i purchase them. It means that when it does arrive, i have a basic idea of how it works and how to set up it up so i can just plug it in and get on with it!
Also means that i can analyse exactly what it does, which then means i can decide if i actually need/want it! | Darren Teboe
02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Not this debate again! If you are house DJ and have great track selection skills and solid beat matching skills/play music that gets that gets the dance floor moving you are a great DJ. If you're an amazing turntablist you're a great DJ, If you're really good new age controllerist beat mashing DJ you are just as good.
None of these are better than another they are different styles of DJing. You can be good or shit at both. THE END
I completely agree. I just also believe that knowing a little bit of something else on top of one's preferred medium is key. I feel like people really pushed the envelope a little more when there was only a couple turntables and a mixer. Even beyond scratching. Sure, some people were better than others. The thing I remember seeing (and doing myself) a lot of was getting really good track selection, and pulling off new ways of presenting the music.
I remember Frankie Bones used to take a spool of thread, put it over the nipple of the record platter. Then, he'd replace the needle upside down and put the record on top of the spool. He put a pencil in the hole to center it and keep it in place, and then start it up with the needle playing the underside of the record, and the song was playing backwards. I had seen him do this, mix it into a track and get it playing by itself. While the record was playing alone... backwards, he'd mix in a copy of the same song forwards, and make a whole build of it. I was so impressed because it took a great song, and introduced a completely original way to mix in and tease a track. I was especially interested, because I had heard hyperactive do the same thing not too long before... but with only a mixtape to hear it, I started just trying to make that happen with no tools... learning the muscle memory to manually push the platter backwards in time with the song I was mixing into, mix out and kick it forward with my fingers, and press the start button in time to not miss a beat. I used to see a lot of people do this. Now there's so many easy ways to do things to get that effect and I rarely see people do it.
I believe the message gets lost in the defense of peoples beliefs. Just because one style of DJing may appeal to peoples tastes more than others doesn't make it (or any others) more relevant. The point that most people miss is that (at least back when I first got into it), the best guys really do have experience in all, show an obvious talent for at least one, and show an ample competence in other areas as well. | Teresia Janusch
02.10.2012 | I would agree to an extent, but while most of the big touring DJs dont do overly technical stuff, there are ones who do like Zabiela and Hawtin...or lesser known ones like me:
Granted this was for a competition, but pretty typical of how i play...house with technical elements, scratching, beat juggling, sample & loop play | Freida Leash
02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by robdquick
Damn right,
If you can't read a manual and work out how to hook up your gear, then you shouldn't be djing.
Kind of silly, but when I first got traktor i had a dedicated day of reviewing the manual while messing with it... it was part of the fun, it is a lot more in depth than any other application I had been using to dj previously. Sure I wanted to be banging out and just playing, but there are so many features a day with the manual was fun too. | Cassie Sangermano
02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by SirReal
Actually, from the look of the recent questions on this community
, I'd say DJ's need to be more technical. The amount of basic audio and routing questions on the first page alone is astonishing.
Damn right,
If you can't read a manual and work out how to hook up your gear, then you shouldn't be djing. | Marjorie Fallucca
02.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
maybe the title of this thread is throwing me a bit, but i wouldn't say that just because a dj is content with beatmatching 2 tracks together in a similar fashion every blend doesn't mean they suck. could they apply more or learn more? maybe, but that doesn't always make it better as less is sometimes more, especially when you consider some genres. i also believe it's a fine line to consider people who put samples over music (or do "remixing" and edits) to those who just blend, where one is artistic and one isn't. at what point do you consider someone taking other people's music and making it theirs? that point may be slightly different to many people on here. to me the journey is also an artform...to you maybe it isn't.
personally if i go and see a deep house dj i don't really want to hear a bunch of button mashing or controllerist routines with a ton of samples and constant quick mixes. the music can be sexy, dark, funky, grooving and all about the mood for me. ideally i want to hear a great song play out and the transitions to take me on a slow and purposeful journey. on the other hand, when i was really into dubstep i would almost never want to hear an entire track play out and i prefered a more in your face, quick style of mixing that delivered peaks and valleys more abruptly. i also would gravitate towards the djs who would add a lot of d&b and drumstep in as well as 100-110bpm glitchy stuff and hip hop to keep me interested. also, i pretty much never like for something to be on crazy-face-smashing-ball-busting-heart-attack-inducing-level-11 the whole time. i need for things to get mellow within that style and then build back up again.
it's all about personal preference and what you enjoy. there are plenty of people from all of these camps that are great and plenty that i don't like. even if i don't like them or their style, it doesn't mean that they suck. unless sets are full of technical errors, their level of goodness is all subjective.
I agree with this also. I like to hear a DJ play a well selected set of tracks as their producer's intended them to be heard. Effects and technical skills are all good, but should be used very sparingly to provide some variation from straight beatmatch mixing. Controllerism & sync have opened up a whole new world of possibilities for DJ's, but it can get taken too far, this idea of a dj remixing tracks live etc does not appeal to me personally, but it is just personal preference in the end and if it's done right and sounds good then hey - go for it/ | Freida Leash
02.10.2012 | I believe there is a time and place for "augmenting" a track... if you aren't adding to the experience leave it alone. I love to play with cue point juggling, looping and effects, it is the true joy of digital dj'ing that all this control is at your finger tips, but in the end track selection, good programing even on the fly, and knowing when to go thru a routine wins. Most of my mixing is A->B and back again, that doesn't mean there isn't merit to this kind of set, often times I'm structuring peaks and valleys of energy level sometimes trying to build it up to insanity levels, letting a dark and moody vibe turn into a happy and light one. I'm not one to even call myself a musician for what I do, or try to elevate it beyond to status, in the end I'm playing other people's tunes and am happy doing that in a DJ set.
But yes lots of DJs suck. | Myles Hasken
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
maybe the title of this thread is throwing me a bit, but i wouldn't say that just because a dj is content with beatmatching 2 tracks together in a similar fashion every blend doesn't mean they suck. could they apply more or learn more? maybe, but that doesn't always make it better as less is sometimes more, especially when you consider some genres. i also believe it's a fine line to consider people who put samples over music (or do "remixing" and edits) to those who just blend, where one is artistic and one isn't. at what point do you consider someone taking other people's music and making it theirs? that point may be slightly different to many people on here. to me the journey is also an artform...to you maybe it isn't.
personally if i go and see a deep house dj i don't really want to hear a bunch of button mashing or controllerist routines with a ton of samples and constant quick mixes. the music can be sexy, dark, funky, grooving and all about the mood for me. ideally i want to hear a great song play out and the transitions to take me on a slow and purposeful journey. on the other hand, when i was really into dubstep i would almost never want to hear an entire track play out and i prefered a more in your face, quick style of mixing that delivered peaks and valleys more abruptly. i also would gravitate towards the djs who would add a lot of d&b and drumstep in as well as 100-110bpm glitchy stuff and hip hop to keep me interested. also, i pretty much never like for something to be on crazy-face-smashing-ball-busting-heart-attack-inducing-level-11 the whole time. i need for things to get mellow within that style and then build back up again.
it's all about personal preference and what you enjoy. there are plenty of people from all of these camps that are great and plenty that i don't like. even if i don't like them or their style, it doesn't mean that they suck. unless sets are full of technical errors, their level of goodness is all subjective.
This is an awesome post, and I agree 100%. At many of the big clubs I frequent, especially in Atlantic City (Mur Mur, Dusk, Providence) to name a few, the resident DJs are pretty good with not mega mashing and letting the songs play out. There is nothing more annoying than having a DJ play :30 seconds of tons of tracks. Nobody can get into a tempo when they're dancing, no rhythm. There's a time and place for fading and blending, and it's not every 10 seconds. I believe the problem lies with DJs who are so hung up on trying to fit their entire library into a gig instead of actually letting the crowd get into the music. The last mix I had set up in a playlist was 48 songs, and that was for a college house party that lasted from 11 to 2, and that was good. Wasn't cutting songs off too long or too short. It just sucks when you hear a track you know and dig, and it's over before it starts. | Malia Janise
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
maybe the title of this thread is throwing me a bit, but i wouldn't say that just because a dj is content with beatmatching 2 tracks together in a similar fashion every blend doesn't mean they suck. could they apply more or learn more? maybe, but that doesn't always make it better as less is sometimes more, especially when you consider some genres. i also believe it's a fine line to consider people who put samples over music (or do "remixing" and edits) to those who just blend, where one is artistic and one isn't. at what point do you consider someone taking other people's music and making it theirs? that point may be slightly different to many people on here. to me the journey is also an artform...to you maybe it isn't.
personally if i go and see a deep house dj i don't really want to hear a bunch of button mashing or controllerist routines with a ton of samples and constant quick mixes. the music can be sexy, dark, funky, grooving and all about the mood for me. ideally i want to hear a great song play out and the transitions to take me on a slow and purposeful journey. on the other hand, when i was really into dubstep i would almost never want to hear an entire track play out and i prefered a more in your face, quick style of mixing that delivered peaks and valleys more abruptly. i also would gravitate towards the djs who would add a lot of d&b and drumstep in as well as 100-110bpm glitchy stuff and hip hop to keep me interested. also, i pretty much never like for something to be on crazy-face-smashing-ball-busting-heart-attack-inducing-level-11 the whole time. i need for things to get mellow within that style and then build back up again.
it's all about personal preference and what you enjoy. there are plenty of people from all of these camps that are great and plenty that i don't like. even if i don't like them or their style, it doesn't mean that they suck. unless sets are full of technical errors, their level of goodness is all subjective.
Second'ing this. Especially the deep house comments.
I'm personally just getting back into DJ'ing. Used to bedroom-DJ techno and cybertrance on 1200's in the late 90's. Haven't touched them since, and just got two CDJ 900s. I'm planning on doing nothing different than I did then - great track selection, transitions that add value to the experience, and an overall feeling that I'm "presenting" something rather than just creating a playlist. | Valeri Holderness
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
no worries, and you pretty much corrected it within the context of your posts in here (and i see you edited your original post).
honestly i do agree with the general idea of your thoughts on this subject. as a person you should always strive to be better or learn more in whatever you are doing, and this goes for the many styles of djing as well. when people become complacent in their abilities and believe they have nothing more to learn, i believe it's generally a hindrance and a negative quality. there is always room for improvement and we should always aim for it, even if the results are marginal and unnoticeable to anyone but ourselves.
hit the nail on the head good sir. thank you for a very interesting discussion | Cole Maroto
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
in hindsight the thread title was definitely misleading and not very well thought out haha. didn't necessarily mean to say that you have to be technical to be a good dj, i just felt that more djs need to look into forming technical skills. that being said you and some others make some great points and i can't really fully disagree with any of them haha all of it is basically subjective and everyone on here has a very different definition of what makes a dj good.
no worries, and you pretty much corrected it within the context of your posts in here (and i see you edited your original post).
honestly i do agree with the general idea of your thoughts on this subject. as a person you should always strive to be better or learn more in whatever you are doing, and this goes for the many styles of djing as well. when people become complacent in their abilities and believe they have nothing more to learn, i believe it's generally a hindrance and a negative quality. there is always room for improvement and we should always aim for it, even if the results are marginal and unnoticeable to anyone but ourselves. | Antonetta Wikel
01.10.2012 | Actually, from the look of the recent questions on this community
, I'd say DJ's need to be more technical. The amount of basic audio and routing questions on the first page alone is astonishing. | Valeri Holderness
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
maybe the title of this thread is throwing me a bit, but i wouldn't say that just because a dj is content with beatmatching 2 tracks together in a similar fashion every blend doesn't mean they suck. could they apply more or learn more? maybe, but that doesn't always make it better as less is sometimes more, especially when you consider some genres. i also believe it's a fine line to consider people who put samples over music (or do "remixing" and edits) to those who just blend, where one is artistic and one isn't. at what point do you consider someone taking other people's music and making it theirs? that point may be slightly different to many people on here. to me the journey is also an artform...to you maybe it isn't.
personally if i go and see a deep house dj i don't really want to hear a bunch of button mashing or controllerist routines with a ton of samples and constant quick mixes. the music can be sexy, dark, funky, grooving and all about the mood for me. ideally i want to hear a great song play out and the transitions to take me on a slow and purposeful journey. on the other hand, when i was really into dubstep i would almost never want to hear an entire track play out and i prefered a more in your face, quick style of mixing that delivered peaks and valleys more abruptly. i also would gravitate towards the djs who would add a lot of d&b and drumstep in as well as 100-110bpm glitchy stuff and hip hop to keep me interested. also, i pretty much never like for something to be on crazy-face-smashing-ball-busting-heart-attack-inducing-level-11 the whole time. i need for things to get mellow within that style and then build back up again.
it's all about personal preference and what you enjoy. there are plenty of people from all of these camps that are great and plenty that i don't like. even if i don't like them or their style, it doesn't mean that they suck. unless sets are full of technical errors, their level of goodness is all subjective.
in hindsight the thread title was definitely misleading and not very well thought out haha. didn't necessarily mean to say that you have to be technical to be a good dj, i just felt that more djs need to look into forming technical skills. that being said you and some others make some great points and i can't really fully disagree with any of them haha all of it is basically subjective and everyone on here has a very different definition of what makes a dj good. | Valeri Holderness
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
You're associating "play the track out and play the next one" mixing with people who mix by phrasing and blending. They're completely different types of DJ. You don't just suddenly "get really good at song selection" and then move on to something else, music is constantly being released, and assimilated by DJs, it's a neverending process. It's not like "well now I know how to phrase, now Im bored and want to start mutilating the music" your techniques are constantly evolving and adapting every time you add a track to your library.
I suppose I could have worded that better. Your right that its a never ending process and everytime you add a new song to your library, you expand as a dj. However I don't necessarily agree that one's techniques are constantly evolving whenever they add new tracks in their library. due to the way a lot of music is structured, you can play the majority of your new tunes the same way you play your old tunes. in terms of technical skill, theres really very little evolving when you get new tracks | Cole Maroto
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
Lots of good points from both sides
I agree with you for the most part. But as with the first dj in your example, i find that a lot of guys are sort of satisfied at the point where they can just beat match well and find good tunes. they don't go out of there way to learn anything beyond that (as far as djing is concerned), even though theres is sooooo much more you can do.
djs number 2 and 3 are using samples and songs made by others to make something new where as number one is just playing other people's music and beatmatching. That doesn't mean hes not a good dj, he could be great at rocking parties. but as far as being an artist goes, i don't really feel that the person is making new art, they aren't taking artist's music and making it theres. again, this doesn't make them a bad dj, but i do feel that djing is an art with soooo many different techniques and styles. when regular djs (such us ourselves) don't take the initiative to make our sets artistic, it reflects badly on the art imo (such as people just seeing djs as jukeboxes who just hit play)
long story short, imo djing should be more than picking good tunes and beatmatching (even though those 2 things are definitely the most important and someone should be good at those before learning technical skills.
maybe the title of this thread is throwing me a bit, but i wouldn't say that just because a dj is content with beatmatching 2 tracks together in a similar fashion every blend doesn't mean they suck. could they apply more or learn more? maybe, but that doesn't always make it better as less is sometimes more, especially when you consider some genres. i also believe it's a fine line to consider people who put samples over music (or do "remixing" and edits) to those who just blend, where one is artistic and one isn't. at what point do you consider someone taking other people's music and making it theirs? that point may be slightly different to many people on here. to me the journey is also an artform...to you maybe it isn't.
personally if i go and see a deep house dj i don't really want to hear a bunch of button mashing or controllerist routines with a ton of samples and constant quick mixes. the music can be sexy, dark, funky, grooving and all about the mood for me. ideally i want to hear a great song play out and the transitions to take me on a slow and purposeful journey. on the other hand, when i was really into dubstep i would almost never want to hear an entire track play out and i prefered a more in your face, quick style of mixing that delivered peaks and valleys more abruptly. i also would gravitate towards the djs who would add a lot of d&b and drumstep in as well as 100-110bpm glitchy stuff and hip hop to keep me interested. also, i pretty much never like for something to be on crazy-face-smashing-ball-busting-heart-attack-inducing-level-11 the whole time. i need for things to get mellow within that style and then build back up again.
it's all about personal preference and what you enjoy. there are plenty of people from all of these camps that are great and plenty that i don't like. even if i don't like them or their style, it doesn't mean that they suck. unless sets are full of technical errors, their level of goodness is all subjective. | Ulysses Vittetoe
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
You're associating "play the track out and play the next one" mixing with people who mix by phrasing and blending. They're completely different types of DJ. You don't just suddenly "get really good at song selection" and then move on to something else, music is constantly being released, and assimilated by DJs, it's a neverending process. It's not like "well now I know how to phrase, now Im bored and want to start mutilating the music" your techniques are constantly evolving and adapting every time you add a track to your library.
I like this. Each song definitely has it's own unique vibe. | Nancey Inderlied
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
i agree with you and i'm not trying to downplay the importance of song selection and creating an atmosphere. i just believe that after a dj gets really good at song selection, they shouldn't stop expanding their skill base. to be honest i don't know too much about the sort of minimal/techy genres (i do play a bit of it) but from what ive seen, guys like hawtin, dubfire, carl cox and jeff mills all set a great atmosphere but they all go beyond just letting the track play out. your spot on that song selection is the number one aspect of djing, i just feel that too many djs don't pick up any technical skills. (not saying that i'm the king of technical skills, i have a TONNE to learn myself)
You're associating "play the track out and play the next one" mixing with people who mix by phrasing and blending. They're completely different types of DJ. You don't just suddenly "get really good at song selection" and then move on to something else, music is constantly being released, and assimilated by DJs, it's a neverending process. It's not like "well now I know how to phrase, now Im bored and want to start mutilating the music" your techniques are constantly evolving and adapting every time you add a track to your library. | Valeri Holderness
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Have you been to a good underground techno/house party?
The guys at these evening
s usually play between 2 - 4hr sets and create an amazing atmosphere by picking the right tracks and meshing them together to create the perfect vibe for the evening
. The good DJ's do more than just play records, they take the crowed on a journey and create something larger - its hard to explain but it is a totally different skill to controllerism or turntablism. Letting a really good track play without messing with it can be more effective.
i agree with you and i'm not trying to downplay the importance of song selection and creating an atmosphere. i just believe that after a dj gets really good at song selection, they shouldn't stop expanding their skill base. to be honest i don't know too much about the sort of minimal/techy genres (i do play a bit of it) but from what ive seen, guys like hawtin, dubfire, carl cox and jeff mills all set a great atmosphere and they also go beyond just letting the track play out. they all have incredible technical ability. your spot on that song selection is the number one aspect of djing, i just feel that too many djs don't pick up any technical skills. (not saying that i'm the king of technical skills, i have a TONNE to learn myself) | Nancey Inderlied
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
We posted minutes apart.. I don't agree entirely with what you said. Mashing up tracks with a laptop and controller has its place and can be amazing its just entirely different.
Hence the edit, I thought you had quoted me for some reason. | Ming Devis
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
Thats what I said...
We posted minutes apart.. I don't agree entirely with what you said. Mashing up tracks with a laptop and controller has its place and can be amazing its just entirely different. | Nancey Inderlied
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Have you been to a good underground techno/house party?
The guys at these evening
s usually play between 2 - 4hr sets and create an amazing atmosphere by picking the right tracks and meshing them together to create the perfect vibe for the evening
. The good DJ's do more than just play records, they take the crowed on a journey and create something larger - its hard to explain but it is a totally different skill to controllerism or turntablism. Letting a really good track play without messing with it can be more effective.
EDIT: Im dumb | Ming Devis
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
Lots of good points from both sides
I agree with you for the most part. But as with the first dj in your example, i find that a lot of guys are sort of satisfied at the point where they can just beat match well and find good tunes. they don't go out of there way to learn anything beyond that (as far as djing is concerned), even though theres is sooooo much more you can do.
djs number 2 and 3 are using samples and songs made by others to make something new where as number one is just playing other people's music and beatmatching. That doesn't mean hes not a good dj, he could be great at rocking parties. but as far as being an artist goes, i don't really feel that the person is making new art, they aren't taking artist's music and making it theres. again, this doesn't make them a bad dj, but it do feel that djing is an art with soooo many different techniques and styles. when regular djs (such us ourselves) don't take the initiative to make our sets artistic, it reflects badly on the art imo
long story short, imo djing should be more than picking good tunes and beatmatching (even though those 2 things are definitely the most important and someone should be good at those before learning technical skills.
Have you been to a good underground techno/house party?
The guys at these evening
s usually play between 2 - 4hr sets and create an amazing atmosphere by picking the right tracks and meshing them together to create the perfect vibe for the evening
. The good DJ's do more than just play records, they take the crowd on a journey and create something larger - its hard to explain but it is a totally different skill to controllerism or turntablism. Letting a really good track play without messing with it can be more effective. | Nancey Inderlied
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
Lots of good points from both sides
I agree with you for the most part. But as with the first dj in your example, i find that a lot of guys are sort of satisfied at the point where they can just beat match well and find good tunes. they don't go out of there way to learn anything beyond that (as far as djing is concerned), even though theres is sooooo much more you can do.
djs number 2 and 3 are using samples and songs made by others to make something new where as number one is just playing other people's music and beatmatching. That doesn't mean hes not a good dj, he could be great at rocking parties. but as far as being an artist goes, i don't really feel that the person is making new art, they aren't taking artist's music and making it theres. again, this doesn't make them a bad dj, but i do feel that djing is an art with soooo many different techniques and styles. when regular djs (such us ourselves) don't take the initiative to make our sets artistic, it reflects badly on the art imo
long story short, imo djing should be more than picking good tunes and beatmatching (even though those 2 things are definitely the most important and someone should be good at those before learning technical skills.
You're really splitting hairs here, and ignoring the crux of the issue: layering some samples or sounds over some existing track isn't a legendary accomplishment that deserves commendation, and most of the time it creates an audio mess, e.g., the controllerist movement. Selecting, blending, transitioning, and phrasing create a much more powerful atmosphere, and require much more technical skill, then mashing some effects and throwing some random sounds over a mastered track.
Note that I'm not talking about turntablism, which is a different kind of show in itself, and the act of sound creation using DJ tools. But rather the "creativity" a lot of very loud (read: idiots) DJs express, which usually involves sync-mashing some samples or blip tracks straight off Beatport Play and creating a massive audio mess. "Adding" to a mastered track is usually not a good idea, and definitely isn't the distinction between an "artist," and a typical DJ, it's just a side effect of the MIDI addicted ADD culture Traktor has spawned among kids and nerds in the past few years.
So to answer your question directly, no, button mashers are not elevated as "artists," the art of DJing has nothing to do with sound spam. | Valeri Holderness
01.10.2012 | Lots of good points from both sides
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Not this debate again! If you are house DJ and have great track selection skills and solid beat matching skills/play music that gets that gets the dance floor moving you are a great DJ. If you're an amazing turntablist you're a great DJ, If you're really good new age controllerist beat mashing DJ you are just as good.
None of these are better than another they are different styles of DJing. You can be good or shit at both. THE END
I agree with you for the most part. But as with the first dj in your example, i find that a lot of guys are sort of satisfied at the point where they can just beat match well and find good tunes. they don't go out of there way to learn anything beyond that (as far as djing is concerned), even though theres is sooooo much more you can do.
djs number 2 and 3 are using samples and songs made by others to make something new where as number one is just playing other people's music and beatmatching. That doesn't mean hes not a good dj, he could be great at rocking parties. but as far as being an artist goes, i don't really feel that the person is making new art, they aren't taking artist's music and making it theres. again, this doesn't make them a bad dj, but i do feel that djing is an art with soooo many different techniques and styles. when regular djs (such us ourselves) don't take the initiative to make our sets artistic, it reflects badly on the art imo (such as people just seeing djs as jukeboxes who just hit play)
long story short, imo djing should be more than picking good tunes and beatmatching (even though those 2 things are definitely the most important and someone should be good at those before learning technical skills. | Myles Hasken
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Not this debate again! If you are house DJ and have great track selection skills and solid beat matching skills/play music that gets that gets the dance floor moving you are a great DJ. If you're an amazing turntablist you're a great DJ, If you're really good new age controllerist beat mashing DJ you are just as good.
None of these are better than another they are different styles of DJing. You can be good or shit at both. THE END
I believe that about sums it up. | Lashonda Corris
01.10.2012 | as mainly a house DJ and also playing hip-hop, R&B i find it if your going to work clubs you find that these are the main genres that are wanted unless you doing a commercial place that wants party and top 40 (i digress) but the point is that having the ability to change between the 2 top mentioned music genres is paramount and these are the most skilled DJ's around to me jazzy jeff is the best example.. but if your a house man the live remixing is the real technical skill yes there is a certain level of preparation before you get to you gig but the remix style of James zabiela using ableton and other aof his many gadgets allow him to cross load of EDM genres seamlessly, as for me I mix left to right and cut up using the hiphop style I am no jazzy jeff but i now up my game with live remixing and ableton bongo's and use as needed to add varaity to how I gig | Myles Hasken
01.10.2012 | I agree with most of what you said. However, I believe the term "DJ" is too broad as is. A DJ to me is a person who can beat match, and has more of an ear for music and knows what people want to hear. Depending on the genre, i'm impressed in a club/bar when a DJ is playing some songs I know being a DJ. I believe the guys doing the real artistic stuff are more producers. For example, Avicii, Deadmau5, Alesso, Sebastian Ingresso. Not only are they producing their own tracks, but they're taking the real talent of adding new things to the work. Then you have DJ Pauly D, who until recently released a good produced track, but lived solely off of exciting a crowd and playing other people's music. It is what it is. | Ming Devis
01.10.2012 | Not this debate again! If you are house DJ and have great track selection skills and solid beat matching skills/play music that gets that gets the dance floor moving you are a great DJ. If you're an amazing turntablist you're a great DJ, If you're really good new age controllerist beat mashing DJ you are just as good.
None of these are better than another they are different styles of DJing. You can be good or shit at both. THE END | Darren Teboe
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by firebr4nd
You're not going to be doing a lot of scratching playing EDM. It sounds like you're asking guys who play house to be more like hip-hop DJs/turntablists. They're 2 different ways of going about being a DJ.
Tell that to Bad Boy Bill. Guy made a serious name for himself, and became one of the biggest names in house in the mid 90's from scratching over house music. | Valeri Holderness
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by zimfella
What ever happened to good old track selection. Yeah there's guys pulling tricks and all but generally their tunes they choose aren't great imho.
of course thats the most important thing, but I mean generally the dudes who are skilled enough too pull off tricks have been in the game long enough that they have a solid taste in music and know how to read a crowd | Hanna Ridenbaugh
01.10.2012 | What ever happened to good old track selection. Yeah there's guys pulling tricks and all but generally their tunes they choose aren't great imho. | Valeri Holderness
01.10.2012 | very solid points
although at the same time, i believe that your average non-producers djs (not big names), don't necessarily feel inclined to be creative either and quite frankly I'm not sure why. | Ulysses Vittetoe
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
oh sorry I was missing your point, your 100% right.
edit: would you agree though that most djs don't really pursue being creative though?
Yes. That's because a lot of DJs in the genres that are prominent in the electronic music scene now are producers first and DJs second. Guys like Carl Cox and Danny Tenaglia (who are amazing DJs) are known for their ability to rock a party as opposed to being known for their ability to make a killer track. | Edwardo Rothenberger
01.10.2012 | Dj'ing's diffferent things to different folks. Ultimately, it's traditionally been playing other people's records.
Beatmatching long mixes used to be a real skill in vinyl days, and it was creative. | Valeri Holderness
01.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by firebr4nd
Jeff Mills and Carl Cox play Techno, which lends itself well to layering songs and lots of looping...very different from playing electrohouse/dubstep/progressive house. My point is that you can be creative without being a turntablist, which a lot of things you are citing as creative are.
oh sorry I was missing your point, your 100% right.
edit: would you agree though that most djs don't really pursue being creative though? |
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