Calvin Harris
and Dillon Francis
worked there... no way!
| Most DJs suck? Before you read this: by writing this I’m not saying that I’m some super crazy DJ, I still have a lot to learn myself. This is just something I’ve felt for a long time and I’d like to get some insight on how other people feel about this. Also, I’m talking mostly about club djing here.
edit: after some discussion, i realized the thread title was a little misleading. just because a dj isn't technical doesn't make them a bad dj, and thats not what I'm going for here
I got a chance to see dj spinbad and dj starting from scratch over the weekend (they played a set at a Russell Peters show). Their set was AMAZING and blew my mind. They were doing something truly artistic and were essentially making something new on stage. Slick cuts, juggling, acapellas, etc. It made me believe, why isn’t the standard for djs a little bit higher? Why aren’t big touring djs and resident djs expected to put some skill into what they do?
Overall, I believe its safe to say that the majority of djs don’t really engage in the technical aspects of djing; they don’t necessarily “make” something new, they often just beat match between two tunes and call it a day. Some people like to pat themselves on the back for beatmatching, phase matching, phrase matching, etc. but as A-trak said: no one ever complimented a dj on how artistically they beat match. Spending a week learning basic beat matching and having an interest in a specific genre of music (which is something virtually something everyone has) is basically enough to make a mix that would be considered “acceptable”. I find that a lot of djs just reach this acceptable level and then don't feel the need to learn beyond that.
Does anyone else see a problem with this? Everyone complains about aoki, guetta, etc. jut hitting play, but how many regular djs do anything more than that? Along with this, its almost become the standard for people to believe of djs as “record player players”. I was reading the paper this morning and the review of the show stated “also appearing was DJ Sarting from Scratch and DJ Spinbad but neither brought much to the evening as canned music would have easily filled the same role”. After perhaps dj craze, these guys played the craziest set I’ve seen in my life. Tonnes of live mashes, cutting etc. between each other all by ear. They were incredibly technical and not messy in the slightest. Also they were about 20 feet away from eachother so they couldn’t communicate or screen peak. Because we’ve set the standard so low, DJs who are actually talented don’t get the props they deserve. Because the majority of DJs themselves are ok with being at the "acceptable" level (and don't strive to do anything necessarily creative), people don't seem to make a distinction between a quality dj and your average joe.
sorry for the novel, just something I wanted to discuss here opinions? | Ming Devis
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
might be misunderstanding your point but are you saying that djs that don't use technical ability in their sets did learn techniques at some point but choose not to use them? if thats what you meant, i highly highly doubt somebody would go through years of learning technical skills and then not used the skills that they learned
Originally Posted by ksandvik
I believe it's really development of taste. You might learn all kinds of crazy tricks but you only use them when appropriate, if not at all. I believe James Zabiela is a good example where his latest RA mix was excellent and he didn't need to show all the tricks he knows inside out, which was good. I suspect anyone who is in this business will learn taste, hopefully not the hard way by public mistakes.
^ Pretty much this.
Lot's of DJ's have started out mixing different styles and learnt different skills/technique's and then they move on to a different style where straight mixing is more appropriate. It's not less of a skill its just how they want to present the music.
It might be hard to get your head around but the point I've been making from the start is some crowds and DJ's prefer a minimal approach to DJ'ing just like people enjoy modern art minimalist art - less can be more. DJing is usually referred to as an art form not a show of physical technical ability like a sport (obviously unless its DMC). IMO and allot of DJ's its about presenting music to create something larger it can be with scratching or beat mashing or it can be by straight up beat/phrase matching and letting the track play.
I love watching James Zabiela go crazy or DJ Craze slice tracks to pieces to create something else but myself and lots of others really enjoy a DJ with some 1200's spinning amazing deep house tracks in a basement. Its all personal interpretation of the art form, you might not like it but you have to respect that others have an appreciation for it and some might even rate it as a higher preference.
Here is a video of what myself and lots of other's are into. This guy started out spinning and producing Dnb and moved onto Deep House/Bass Music. All he uses is a set of turns/time code eq's and a high pass filter
| Valeri Holderness
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
I believe it's really development of taste. You might learn all kinds of crazy tricks but you only use them when appropriate, if not at all. I believe James Zabiela is a good example where his latest RA mix was excellent and he didn't need to show all the tricks he knows inside out, which was good. I suspect anyone who is in this business will learn taste, hopefully not the hard way by public mistakes.
ah fair enough, although I believe that guys like zabiela are a rare breed | Celine Surico
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
might be misunderstanding your point but are you saying that djs that don't use technical ability in their sets did learn techniques at some point but choose not to use them? if thats what you meant, i highly highly doubt somebody would go through years of learning technical skills and then not used the skills that they learned
I believe it's really development of taste. You might learn all kinds of crazy tricks but you only use them when appropriate, if not at all. I believe James Zabiela is a good example where his latest RA mix was excellent and he didn't need to show all the tricks he knows inside out, which was good. I suspect anyone who is in this business will learn taste, hopefully not the hard way by public mistakes. | Valeri Holderness
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Really I'm sure they would be a bit rusty but they could re-learn fairly quickly, some could even be that talented that they could pull it off on the spot.
I'm sure if you dropped some DJ's that haven't been digging for techno for years in front of a crowd at Berghain in Berlin they would be a bit rusty as well.
might be misunderstanding your point but are you saying that djs that don't use technical ability in their sets did learn techniques at some point but choose not to use them? if thats what you meant, i highly highly doubt somebody would go through years of learning technical skills and then not used the skills that they learned | Ming Devis
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
I get where your going, but all of those techniques take years to develop and do well. if a dj doesn't actively practice those techniques, theres no way that they would be able to do them.
Really I'm sure they would be a bit rusty but they could re-learn fairly quickly, some could even be that talented that they could pull it off on the spot.
I'm sure if you dropped some DJ's that haven't been digging for techno for years in front of a crowd at Berghain in Berlin they would be a bit rusty as well. | Ming Devis
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
I believe that's a spot on comment, and it does apply to guys like Guetta and SHM. I've even mentioned in earlier posts how they tie into the big picture.
I don't believe there's such a thing as getting too much respect for someone making a track, so I'll skip that. Don't agree with it at all actually. I agree that they are disrespecting the "craft" though. Just look at some of the asinine comments the Mau5e has made lately. The latest crop of big guys in production that double as DJ's don't care much for the intricacies if DJing, which seems to be in line with a lot of people in this thread.
15 years ago, that wasn't the case. I remember hearing josh wink cut up higher state of consciousness one evening
. No scratching, but using doubles to dissect the song and rebuild it at the spur of the moment. A very creative way of mixing... I don't see that from a lot of producers any more. It used to be big producers did live shows and stuck to the studio, or DJ's became producers.
The big guys like Mau5e, SHM, etc... they don't put much into the DJ side of things. These are the new top of the pyramid guys. The ones that all the up and comers look up to. Starting to see the relevance? When the guys in the spotlight, which are the idols of future DJ's, aren't putting much into it... aren't taking any risks... aren't pushing the envelope... it trickles down. What those guys do is viewed as the standard of excellence by the future of our dance community.
This discussion that has surpassed 20 pages is about what that has already, IMO, done to the community. It has already lowered the standard. It's why guys like Sneak, A-Trak, some of us in this thread, and a growing number of veteran DJ's are starting to voice their opinions on it loud and clear. Because even by example of this thread, it has already become accepted by a large number of people who are supposed to be the ones pushing the boundaries of music, that the mediocrity that used to not be acceptable for DJ's is now slowly becoming the norm.
Yeah its true they do suck but it isn't the same music that Sneak and A-track play anyway. The guys are pop stars and its the same deal as any music scene that gets corrupted by money, but I just ignore that stuff.
There is nothing we can do about this big pop 'EDM' (or whatever you want to call it) thing. There are tones of great producer/DJ's pushing boundaries you just need to know where to look. I would say this quality underground scene is getting even bigger than it ever was. | Valeri Holderness
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
So you're saying you can respect other DJ's as being great DJ's in other peoples eye's by mixing and great track selection but you don't like that style much.
The fact is you can be a great DJ if you choose to mix with skills A only, or A - D or H - P or A - Z, why? because at the end of the day its about how people enjoy your set. DJ set's are liked and not liked on a person to person basis.
I bet lots of the top DJ's that choose 'option A' and mix 90% of the time know how to scratch and could chop a song into samples and finger drum live and add all the elements into their mix but I believe that's not how they want to present the music they are playing and vice versa.
Some people are saying just beat matching and track selection is what they really love and what makes a 'great' DJ and don't really care for the other skills - they like DJ's that just mix, so do you respect that view? If you do I believe that is the end of the argument right there.
I get where your going, but all of those techniques take years to develop and do well. if a dj doesn't actively practice those techniques, theres no way that they would be able to do them. | Ming Devis
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
Neither would I, nor would I expect a great DJ to only use solid mixing and track selection.
agreed. I've been saying this throughout the past 20+ pages.
Agreed. Thing is, there is plenty of DJ's I don't enjoy, but respect. They are well rounded and have a grasp on all aspects of DJing. A floored argument is ignoring how certain people are saying a truely skilled DJ knows A through Z, and arguing over if only A-D or R-Z are important.
So you're saying you can respect other DJ's as being great DJ's in other peoples eye's by mixing and great track selection but you don't like that style much.
The fact is you can be a great DJ if you choose to mix with skills A only, or A - D or H - P or A - Z, why? because at the end of the day its about how people enjoy your set. DJ set's are liked and not liked on a person to person basis.
I bet lots of the top DJ's that choose 'option A' and mix 90% of the time know how to scratch and could chop a song into samples and finger drum live and add all the elements into their mix but I believe that's not how they want to present the music they are playing and vice versa.
Some people are saying just beat matching and track selection is what they really love and what makes a 'great' DJ and don't really care for the other skills - they like DJ's that just mix, so do you respect that view? If you do I believe that is the end of the argument right there. | Darren Teboe
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Is this a joke? Care to elaborate?
If you're just talking about Guetta and SHM etc forget it we aren't talking about them.
I believe that's a spot on comment, and it does apply to guys like Guetta and SHM. I've even mentioned in earlier posts how they tie into the big picture.
I don't believe there's such a thing as getting too much respect for someone making a track, so I'll skip that. Don't agree with it at all actually. I agree that they are disrespecting the "craft" though. Just look at some of the asinine comments the Mau5e has made lately. The latest crop of big guys in production that double as DJ's don't care much for the intricacies if DJing, which seems to be in line with a lot of people in this thread.
15 years ago, that wasn't the case. I remember hearing josh wink cut up higher state of consciousness one evening
. No scratching, but using doubles to dissect the song and rebuild it at the spur of the moment. A very creative way of mixing... I don't see that from a lot of producers any more. It used to be big producers did live shows and stuck to the studio, or DJ's became producers.
The big guys like Mau5e, SHM, etc... they don't put much into the DJ side of things. These are the new top of the pyramid guys. The ones that all the up and comers look up to. Starting to see the relevance? When the guys in the spotlight, which are the idols of future DJ's, aren't putting much into it... aren't taking any risks... aren't pushing the envelope... it trickles down. What those guys do is viewed as the standard of excellence by the future of our dance community.
This discussion that has surpassed 20 pages is about what that has already, IMO, done to the community. It has already lowered the standard. It's why guys like Sneak, A-Trak, some of us in this thread, and a growing number of veteran DJ's are starting to voice their opinions on it loud and clear. Because even by example of this thread, it has already become accepted by a large number of people who are supposed to be the ones pushing the boundaries of music, that the mediocrity that used to not be acceptable for DJ's is now slowly becoming the norm. | Rochel Papillion
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Is this a joke? Care to elaborate?
If you're just talking about Guetta and SHM etc forget it we aren't talking about them.
Its between people complaining that putting too much effects on tracks, saying LBL sound like shit and some people saying that picking the right track and letting the track bring a feeling, and that house djs dont really do so much tricks...
Roger Sanchez, Luciano DJ Sneak are house DJs and they bring creativity to djing, even producers edit their own tracks for different events from Sasha to Seth Troxler
I dont believe I still answered your question but Im just saying that not messing with some songs is true, there are definite traks that should not be messed with but that is at the minority.
I wanna post this vid cause of the comments in there if you would like to read em(they are from other djs, cause i intentionally sent it to some)
| Darren Teboe
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
I wouldn't expect someone with 25+ years of experience to diss all the great DJ's who have/do use track selection and solid mixing to take a crowd on a journey.
Neither would I, nor would I expect a great DJ to only use solid mixing and track selection.
Originally Posted by LoopCat
yes you can mix creatively without effects and scratching
agreed. I've been saying this throughout the past 20+ pages.
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Saying it has to be shit because you don't enjoy it and millions of others do is a really floored argument.
Agreed. Thing is, there is plenty of DJ's I don't enjoy, but respect. They are well rounded and have a grasp on all aspects of DJing. A floored argument is ignoring how certain people are saying a truely skilled DJ knows A through Z, and arguing over if only A-D or R-Z are important. | Ming Devis
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by enorjy
I believe some of you guys give too much respect to producers and their tracks.
Producers are disrespecting the craft of djing and all you do is argue bout it.
Is this a joke? Care to elaborate?
If you're just talking about Guetta and SHM etc forget it we aren't talking about them. | Ming Devis
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
I wouldn't expect people with little passion about dance culture to really understand it. No worries.
I wouldn't expect someone with 25+ years of experience to diss all the great DJ's who have/do use track selection and solid mixing to take a crowd on a journey.
Even if you like your DJ's to be a bit flashy you surely understand that 1000's of DJ's that straight up mix well and creatively (yes you can mix creatively without effects and scratching) are well respected by tones of DJ's.
Saying it has to be shit because you don't enjoy it and millions of others do is a really floored argument. | Celine Surico
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
Easy counterpoint to what you said... multiple playlists. Instead of making one, ten or so are made. Now it's nothing more than an itunes playlist that a computer mixes for you. Your point is now moot.
Also for the record, reading a crowd isn't something that can't be done with established venues ahead of time. All you need to do is a little research to find out what kind of crowd they usually get. If we are talking small time little bars that have different crowds all the time, then yes... actually reading the people matters, but an established club usually has an established crowd with an established sound.
I guess if you make a couple of hundred of playlists you are indeed covered. Then it's the same as keeping in your head what the songs are. Or, DJs have playlists already (Traktor et rest) so what's the point, really?
Some bars/clubs are indeed known for a certain sound. Makes no sense to use a playlist as you know what is expected...
Some don't, and you are hosed with your pre-defined playlists or the mythological Pandora/iTunes genius app.
This reminds me of how programmers would supposedly be obsoleted by smart SW building tools and enterprise tools in the mid-eighties. Ho ho... Or, cry wolf, here we go again. | Celine Surico
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
First time I heard iTunes genius would scan the dance floor and figure out that this crowd digs deep house while it plays electro house... I guess I learn something every day. | Devora Chait
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJSigma
It's not really that. I'm annoyed by other peoples' laziness and lack of passion. And let's be clear about this, it IS laziness/lack of passion we're talking about, not "tastes". When you have little to no passion for something, it's harder to understand why someone who does have passion would get annoyed.
This implies that DJs who have no skill only play at "commercial cheese fests". Is that a term of endearment? "Commercial cheese fest"? lol. Cos it sounds like you're using that as a pejorative term to me.....
You have said yourself that skill has declined with the new "EDM" scene, which is largely commercial music. If you don't like it, stay away from those events. There is plenty of other dance events (proper house, techno etc) going on... | Ming Devis
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
might be misunderstanding your point but are you saying that djs that don't use technical ability in their sets did learn techniques at some point but choose not to use them? if thats what you meant, i highly highly doubt somebody would go through years of learning technical skills and then not used the skills that they learned
Originally Posted by ksandvik
I believe it's really development of taste. You might learn all kinds of crazy tricks but you only use them when appropriate, if not at all. I believe James Zabiela is a good example where his latest RA mix was excellent and he didn't need to show all the tricks he knows inside out, which was good. I suspect anyone who is in this business will learn taste, hopefully not the hard way by public mistakes.
^ Pretty much this.
Lot's of DJ's have started out mixing different styles and learnt different skills/technique's and then they move on to a different style where straight mixing is more appropriate. It's not less of a skill its just how they want to present the music.
It might be hard to get your head around but the point I've been making from the start is some crowds and DJ's prefer a minimal approach to DJ'ing just like people enjoy modern art minimalist art - less can be more. DJing is usually referred to as an art form not a show of physical technical ability like a sport (obviously unless its DMC). IMO and allot of DJ's its about presenting music to create something larger it can be with scratching or beat mashing or it can be by straight up beat/phrase matching and letting the track play.
I love watching James Zabiela go crazy or DJ Craze slice tracks to pieces to create something else but myself and lots of others really enjoy a DJ with some 1200's spinning amazing deep house tracks in a basement. Its all personal interpretation of the art form, you might not like it but you have to respect that others have an appreciation for it and some might even rate it as a higher preference.
Here is a video of what myself and lots of other's are into. This guy started out spinning and producing Dnb and moved onto Deep House/Bass Music. All he uses is a set of turns/time code eq's and a high pass filter
| Valeri Holderness
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
I believe it's really development of taste. You might learn all kinds of crazy tricks but you only use them when appropriate, if not at all. I believe James Zabiela is a good example where his latest RA mix was excellent and he didn't need to show all the tricks he knows inside out, which was good. I suspect anyone who is in this business will learn taste, hopefully not the hard way by public mistakes.
ah fair enough, although I believe that guys like zabiela are a rare breed | Celine Surico
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
might be misunderstanding your point but are you saying that djs that don't use technical ability in their sets did learn techniques at some point but choose not to use them? if thats what you meant, i highly highly doubt somebody would go through years of learning technical skills and then not used the skills that they learned
I believe it's really development of taste. You might learn all kinds of crazy tricks but you only use them when appropriate, if not at all. I believe James Zabiela is a good example where his latest RA mix was excellent and he didn't need to show all the tricks he knows inside out, which was good. I suspect anyone who is in this business will learn taste, hopefully not the hard way by public mistakes. | Valeri Holderness
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Really I'm sure they would be a bit rusty but they could re-learn fairly quickly, some could even be that talented that they could pull it off on the spot.
I'm sure if you dropped some DJ's that haven't been digging for techno for years in front of a crowd at Berghain in Berlin they would be a bit rusty as well.
might be misunderstanding your point but are you saying that djs that don't use technical ability in their sets did learn techniques at some point but choose not to use them? if thats what you meant, i highly highly doubt somebody would go through years of learning technical skills and then not used the skills that they learned | Lauretta Ehrhorn
17.10.2012 | Wow this thread refuses to simmer down.
It's all relative. DJing has progressed beyond recognition since the 70's and 80's...well apart from this man. Any excuse to post it again. It makes me chuckle :-)
| Ming Devis
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by IznremiX
I get where your going, but all of those techniques take years to develop and do well. if a dj doesn't actively practice those techniques, theres no way that they would be able to do them.
Really I'm sure they would be a bit rusty but they could re-learn fairly quickly, some could even be that talented that they could pull it off on the spot.
I'm sure if you dropped some DJ's that haven't been digging for techno for years in front of a crowd at Berghain in Berlin they would be a bit rusty as well. | Ming Devis
17.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
I believe that's a spot on comment, and it does apply to guys like Guetta and SHM. I've even mentioned in earlier posts how they tie into the big picture.
I don't believe there's such a thing as getting too much respect for someone making a track, so I'll skip that. Don't agree with it at all actually. I agree that they are disrespecting the "craft" though. Just look at some of the asinine comments the Mau5e has made lately. The latest crop of big guys in production that double as DJ's don't care much for the intricacies if DJing, which seems to be in line with a lot of people in this thread.
15 years ago, that wasn't the case. I remember hearing josh wink cut up higher state of consciousness one evening
. No scratching, but using doubles to dissect the song and rebuild it at the spur of the moment. A very creative way of mixing... I don't see that from a lot of producers any more. It used to be big producers did live shows and stuck to the studio, or DJ's became producers.
The big guys like Mau5e, SHM, etc... they don't put much into the DJ side of things. These are the new top of the pyramid guys. The ones that all the up and comers look up to. Starting to see the relevance? When the guys in the spotlight, which are the idols of future DJ's, aren't putting much into it... aren't taking any risks... aren't pushing the envelope... it trickles down. What those guys do is viewed as the standard of excellence by the future of our dance community.
This discussion that has surpassed 20 pages is about what that has already, IMO, done to the community. It has already lowered the standard. It's why guys like Sneak, A-Trak, some of us in this thread, and a growing number of veteran DJ's are starting to voice their opinions on it loud and clear. Because even by example of this thread, it has already become accepted by a large number of people who are supposed to be the ones pushing the boundaries of music, that the mediocrity that used to not be acceptable for DJ's is now slowly becoming the norm.
Yeah its true they do suck but it isn't the same music that Sneak and A-track play anyway. The guys are pop stars and its the same deal as any music scene that gets corrupted by money, but I just ignore that stuff.
There is nothing we can do about this big pop 'EDM' (or whatever you want to call it) thing. There are tones of great producer/DJ's pushing boundaries you just need to know where to look. I would say this quality underground scene is getting even bigger than it ever was. | Valeri Holderness
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
So you're saying you can respect other DJ's as being great DJ's in other peoples eye's by mixing and great track selection but you don't like that style much.
The fact is you can be a great DJ if you choose to mix with skills A only, or A - D or H - P or A - Z, why? because at the end of the day its about how people enjoy your set. DJ set's are liked and not liked on a person to person basis.
I bet lots of the top DJ's that choose 'option A' and mix 90% of the time know how to scratch and could chop a song into samples and finger drum live and add all the elements into their mix but I believe that's not how they want to present the music they are playing and vice versa.
Some people are saying just beat matching and track selection is what they really love and what makes a 'great' DJ and don't really care for the other skills - they like DJ's that just mix, so do you respect that view? If you do I believe that is the end of the argument right there.
I get where your going, but all of those techniques take years to develop and do well. if a dj doesn't actively practice those techniques, theres no way that they would be able to do them. | Ming Devis
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
Neither would I, nor would I expect a great DJ to only use solid mixing and track selection.
agreed. I've been saying this throughout the past 20+ pages.
Agreed. Thing is, there is plenty of DJ's I don't enjoy, but respect. They are well rounded and have a grasp on all aspects of DJing. A floored argument is ignoring how certain people are saying a truely skilled DJ knows A through Z, and arguing over if only A-D or R-Z are important.
So you're saying you can respect other DJ's as being great DJ's in other peoples eye's by mixing and great track selection but you don't like that style much.
The fact is you can be a great DJ if you choose to mix with skills A only, or A - D or H - P or A - Z, why? because at the end of the day its about how people enjoy your set. DJ set's are liked and not liked on a person to person basis.
I bet lots of the top DJ's that choose 'option A' and mix 90% of the time know how to scratch and could chop a song into samples and finger drum live and add all the elements into their mix but I believe that's not how they want to present the music they are playing and vice versa.
Some people are saying just beat matching and track selection is what they really love and what makes a 'great' DJ and don't really care for the other skills - they like DJ's that just mix, so do you respect that view? If you do I believe that is the end of the argument right there. | Rochel Papillion
16.10.2012 | jeffs mills, juan atkins, derrick may... woo . derrick may was recently on beatport ustream and man, that was an experience, cant even imagine what that feels like live. this jeffs mills video kind of brought that same feeling but in a different like packet, so strange, jus undeniable talent | Darren Teboe
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Is this a joke? Care to elaborate?
If you're just talking about Guetta and SHM etc forget it we aren't talking about them.
I believe that's a spot on comment, and it does apply to guys like Guetta and SHM. I've even mentioned in earlier posts how they tie into the big picture.
I don't believe there's such a thing as getting too much respect for someone making a track, so I'll skip that. Don't agree with it at all actually. I agree that they are disrespecting the "craft" though. Just look at some of the asinine comments the Mau5e has made lately. The latest crop of big guys in production that double as DJ's don't care much for the intricacies if DJing, which seems to be in line with a lot of people in this thread.
15 years ago, that wasn't the case. I remember hearing josh wink cut up higher state of consciousness one evening
. No scratching, but using doubles to dissect the song and rebuild it at the spur of the moment. A very creative way of mixing... I don't see that from a lot of producers any more. It used to be big producers did live shows and stuck to the studio, or DJ's became producers.
The big guys like Mau5e, SHM, etc... they don't put much into the DJ side of things. These are the new top of the pyramid guys. The ones that all the up and comers look up to. Starting to see the relevance? When the guys in the spotlight, which are the idols of future DJ's, aren't putting much into it... aren't taking any risks... aren't pushing the envelope... it trickles down. What those guys do is viewed as the standard of excellence by the future of our dance community.
This discussion that has surpassed 20 pages is about what that has already, IMO, done to the community. It has already lowered the standard. It's why guys like Sneak, A-Trak, some of us in this thread, and a growing number of veteran DJ's are starting to voice their opinions on it loud and clear. Because even by example of this thread, it has already become accepted by a large number of people who are supposed to be the ones pushing the boundaries of music, that the mediocrity that used to not be acceptable for DJ's is now slowly becoming the norm. | Valeri Holderness
16.10.2012 | this man does it right. perfect balance between technicality and incredible song selection
| Rochel Papillion
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Is this a joke? Care to elaborate?
If you're just talking about Guetta and SHM etc forget it we aren't talking about them.
Its between people complaining that putting too much effects on tracks, saying LBL sound like shit and some people saying that picking the right track and letting the track bring a feeling, and that house djs dont really do so much tricks...
Roger Sanchez, Luciano DJ Sneak are house DJs and they bring creativity to djing, even producers edit their own tracks for different events from Sasha to Seth Troxler
I dont believe I still answered your question but Im just saying that not messing with some songs is true, there are definite traks that should not be messed with but that is at the minority.
I wanna post this vid cause of the comments in there if you would like to read em(they are from other djs, cause i intentionally sent it to some)
| Darren Teboe
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
I wouldn't expect someone with 25+ years of experience to diss all the great DJ's who have/do use track selection and solid mixing to take a crowd on a journey.
Neither would I, nor would I expect a great DJ to only use solid mixing and track selection.
Originally Posted by LoopCat
yes you can mix creatively without effects and scratching
agreed. I've been saying this throughout the past 20+ pages.
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Saying it has to be shit because you don't enjoy it and millions of others do is a really floored argument.
Agreed. Thing is, there is plenty of DJ's I don't enjoy, but respect. They are well rounded and have a grasp on all aspects of DJing. A floored argument is ignoring how certain people are saying a truely skilled DJ knows A through Z, and arguing over if only A-D or R-Z are important. | Ming Devis
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by enorjy
I believe some of you guys give too much respect to producers and their tracks.
Producers are disrespecting the craft of djing and all you do is argue bout it.
Is this a joke? Care to elaborate?
If you're just talking about Guetta and SHM etc forget it we aren't talking about them. | Ming Devis
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
I wouldn't expect people with little passion about dance culture to really understand it. No worries.
I wouldn't expect someone with 25+ years of experience to diss all the great DJ's who have/do use track selection and solid mixing to take a crowd on a journey.
Even if you like your DJ's to be a bit flashy you surely understand that 1000's of DJ's that straight up mix well and creatively (yes you can mix creatively without effects and scratching) are well respected by tones of DJ's.
Saying it has to be shit because you don't enjoy it and millions of others do is a really floored argument. | Celine Surico
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
Easy counterpoint to what you said... multiple playlists. Instead of making one, ten or so are made. Now it's nothing more than an itunes playlist that a computer mixes for you. Your point is now moot.
Also for the record, reading a crowd isn't something that can't be done with established venues ahead of time. All you need to do is a little research to find out what kind of crowd they usually get. If we are talking small time little bars that have different crowds all the time, then yes... actually reading the people matters, but an established club usually has an established crowd with an established sound.
I guess if you make a couple of hundred of playlists you are indeed covered. Then it's the same as keeping in your head what the songs are. Or, DJs have playlists already (Traktor et rest) so what's the point, really?
Some bars/clubs are indeed known for a certain sound. Makes no sense to use a playlist as you know what is expected...
Some don't, and you are hosed with your pre-defined playlists or the mythological Pandora/iTunes genius app.
This reminds me of how programmers would supposedly be obsoleted by smart SW building tools and enterprise tools in the mid-eighties. Ho ho... Or, cry wolf, here we go again. | Celine Surico
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
First time I heard iTunes genius would scan the dance floor and figure out that this crowd digs deep house while it plays electro house... I guess I learn something every day. | Devora Chait
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJSigma
It's not really that. I'm annoyed by other peoples' laziness and lack of passion. And let's be clear about this, it IS laziness/lack of passion we're talking about, not "tastes". When you have little to no passion for something, it's harder to understand why someone who does have passion would get annoyed.
This implies that DJs who have no skill only play at "commercial cheese fests". Is that a term of endearment? "Commercial cheese fest"? lol. Cos it sounds like you're using that as a pejorative term to me.....
You have said yourself that skill has declined with the new "EDM" scene, which is largely commercial music. If you don't like it, stay away from those events. There is plenty of other dance events (proper house, techno etc) going on... | Malia Janise
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
I wouldn't expect people with little passion about dance culture to really understand it. No worries.
"Ad Hominem Argument: Also, "personal attack," "poisoning the well." The fallacy of attempting to refute an argument by attacking the opposition’s personal character or reputation, using a corrupted negative argument from ethos. E.g., "He's so evil that you can't believe anything he says." See also Guilt by Association. Also applies to cases where potential opposing arguments are brushed aside without comment or consideration."
Logical fallacies aside, I disagree that creating a well-thought playlist is comparable to iTunes Genius. I've enjoyed 15 years of DJ sets much more than any Genius/Pandora has ever offered me. | Lina Rawie
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Woah
Well, because you're angry over other people's tastes.
It's not really that. I'm annoyed by other peoples' laziness and lack of passion. And let's be clear about this, it IS laziness/lack of passion we're talking about, not "tastes". When you have little to no passion for something, it's harder to understand why someone who does have passion would get annoyed.
Originally Posted by Woah
You like alot of skill in DJ sets? Stay away from commercial cheese fests.
This implies that DJs who have no skill only play at "commercial cheese fests". Is that a term of endearment? "Commercial cheese fest"? lol. Cos it sounds like you're using that as a pejorative term to me..... | Darren Teboe
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
How many DJ's play to "arbitrary" crowds? Most crowds make up their mind as to what music they're gonna hear by choosing the DJ that they're going to listen to...
It wouldn't be hard to have a drop down in Pandora with a list of DJ's that would determine what music gets played...
It is true of established DJ/producers, but for most unknown DJs they crowd really does not have any other expectations than having a good time. And using a pre-defined playlist in such cases is pretty much close to clearing the floors in case the establishment does not like tech house, deep house, dubstep, trance, nu-disco and so on and so on. In other words, if you are no established producer/DJ with a certain style and reputation and you are just doing gigs, you better learn to read the crowds, quickly.
PS: Reading crowds is 100x more important than beatmatching/sync, controllerism tricks and so on.
Easy counterpoint to what you said... multiple playlists. Instead of making one, ten or so are made. Now it's nothing more than an itunes playlist that a computer mixes for you. Your point is now moot.
Also for the record, reading a crowd isn't something that can't be done with established venues ahead of time. All you need to do is a little research to find out what kind of crowd they usually get. If we are talking small time little bars that have different crowds all the time, then yes... actually reading the people matters, but an established club usually has an established crowd with an established sound. | Darren Teboe
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by Woah
I honestly don't get how you can get aggravated about how other people play songs, and what they like.
I wouldn't expect people with little passion about dance culture to really understand it. No worries. | Darren Teboe
16.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
I have yet to see a Pandora-like application that predicts the taste and interest of an arbitrary human crowd...
http://ipod.about.com/od/itunes/g/itunes_genius.htm |
|
