"Intermediary midi mapping" software *discussion thread* (Traktor mapping is a pain)
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"Intermediary midi mapping" software *discussion thread* (Traktor mapping is a pain) Posted on: 16.06.2011 by Arcelia Siebeneck IntroductionJust wanted to start a discussion thread regarding the shortcomings of mapping midi controllers using Traktors default mapping options. And by that, I don't just mean the annoying non-resizeable window, lack of serious copy/paste/clipboard functions and the recent inablity to directly edit the xml mapping files with a text editor. What I'm really talking about is the limitations of the default Traktor midi mapping window to achieve more powerful, dynamic and complex mappings... mappings that go well beyond what Traktor is normally capable of. So what do I mean by this? Well if we look at the djtt firmwares for the vci-100 and midifighter as an example you can see that Traktor is capable of some amazing things. Superfaders, fx triggers, etc are made possible by combining various midi commands into one control which are then executed in a certain way. The only realistic way to achieve this is by re-writing the firmware on a midi controller at a hardware level. Yes, it's true that some of these effects can be done via a plain old Traktor mapping - but it gets very complicated and isn't as full featured. The obvious disadvantage with using modified firmwares is that only a few people have the skill and know how to write them. Also, the firmware will only work on specific midi hardware. What I propose is some sort of intermediary midi software that sits between Traktor and your hardware. A utility that allows full access to every midi command available in Traktor with the aim of achieving the kind of custom mappings only normally available via custom firmwares. The solution This isn't an easy undertaking so I'm hoping that the clever people on DJTT can get involved in the discussion and hopeful development of such a tool. In the absence of any sort of Traktor public SDK, here's how it could be achieved: Traktor - A mapping is created that maps literally every control to a different midi CC. All these controls are set to receive midi from a virtual midi device such as LoopBe. The midi commands are then routed via LoopBe from the mapping utility which could be created via one of the following programs: Synthmaker/SynthEdit - Both Windows programs which allow the creation of midi plugins/vst's. Usually the plugins are effects/synths for DAW's such as Cubase, Ableton Live, etc however they can also export standalone Windows executables with midi in/out functionality. Reaktor - Same as Synthmaker/Synthedit but probably more powerful and there may be more people on here that know how to use Reaktor properly. Trouble is, I don't believe there's a plugin export function so you'd need to run Reaktor in the background.. not ideal. Emulator - the new version of Emulator allows you to design your own touchscreen interface GUI and map midi commands to each button/control. GlovePie - probably quite a good option as their is decent scripting and midi support. Disadvantage is that it's a bit unstable in my experience. Autohotkey - my area of expertise (lol) but not really designed for such a job... I might use it to knock up a prototype though. VisualStudio - probably the most viable and professional option... a decent programming language that is stable, fast and powerful. So what would the custom midi mapping software look like? and what kind of things could it do? This is obviously up for discussion, but the first and most important function should be a wholesale replacement of the standard Traktor mapping window. The tool should allow easy duplicating, adding, deleting, etc of all the various Traktor controls and the ability to setup modifiers etc. Once this is implemented, we can look at ways to achieve complex midi mappings based on rules, scripts, etc. This might enable functions such as superfaders and other midifighter features but also: - complex ADSR/LFO based controls - sequenced/pre-scripted midi control - Serato-style continuous play in the background after beatjuggling has ended - GUI editor for custom diy controllers (edit the midi controls in a more visual manner) - simpler midi LED mappings - stuff I haven't even thought of...! How you can help Feel free to contribute to this thread... let me know if this is something that you would find useful and what you would do differently. The suggestions I've listed above are just ideas and I'm keen to get something developed that will be useful for everyone so get posting | |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 24.03.2012 | i'll debug the slicer sometime soon - way too much real work on atm. tbh hadn't given the slicer too much thought as there didn't seem to be any interest in it from anyone. edit: also wondering if the extremely slow led update time on the launchpad is causing issues, as midimasher is using one main processing thread (with separate ones for midi/hid device input and queued events) i might create a new thread for each device output too - so if a device takes a long time to process the messages it doesn't hold up the rest of the processing. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 22.03.2012 |
Originally Posted by drmore
to reset the first bar of the slicer u just press on a different bank and then back on the first beat. i tend to just click on the "hotcues" tab for example and then hit the "slicer" one on the first beat edit: i'm pleased the main layout is working fine tho... this is the first real test of a complex setup using the default routing stuff i put into midimasher. good to know that works anyway... |
| Tawna Ulmen 22.03.2012 | Thanks for sorting that out for me. It worked as expected. However somthing is not quite right. The beatjumps from the slicer sound slightly off. There also needs to be a button to reset the cue/slicer count to the first beat of a bar if needed. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 21.03.2012 | cool only thing i'm not sure of yet (not really tested) is what happens when u restart midimasher with traktor still open - i.e: is midimasher able to reopen the ports as traktor still has some open. just tried a minute ago on my mac and it didn't seem to work - tho i've only just installed the launchpad drivers etc and not really checked it out. could be that the virtual ports fail to create since they're open or it works fine as they still exist... i'm doing my initial testing these days on linux where it works fine (midimasher can work with any midi app ofc not only traktor, tho i've also been running traktor under wine successfully on linux) |
| Tawna Ulmen 21.03.2012 | Thanks im on a mac so no messing arround with ports needed Ill test it when i get home Thanks again! |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 21.03.2012 | give this a go: http://midimasher.djism.com/lua/conf...pad_twitch.lua if not on a mac you'll need to manually add two extra virtual ports called "Traktor to Launchpad" and "Launchpad to Traktor" to connect your existing launchpad mapping to |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 21.03.2012 | ah ok cool - cant ofc do the "enable slicer automatically" on a hotcue if midimasher isnt handling hot cues - but i'll put a shifts on those (one hold mode and one toggle) for use with loops etc or anything else |
| Tawna Ulmen 21.03.2012 | The usb port is in the way if I dont rotate the lp. It sits between my mixer and a Reloop Contour. Hotcues are on my Contours. For shift keys you could use the left and up arrows. They will sit next to the bottem two rows when the lp is rotated. I have them set to tempo jumps atm but ill delete them as i dont use all of them. Thanks for your help |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 21.03.2012 | cool, sounds good... i'll have time a bit later to create a config file for you then that defines those bottom 3 rows with their multiple pages as i have setup (u can easily remove the stuff u don't want like loop modes after) and all other buttons just acting like a normal launchpad. i don't have a loop roll function, that twitch page is mapped to 8 buttons for different loop lengths. quite neat tho as each can be in hold or toggle mode with full led feedback. i guess u have hotcues setup else where - my config needed a shift button *somewhere* for deleting hotcues and turning a hold loop button into a toggle mode one. not sure if u want those tho. i'll hack the config apart a bit later anyway, leaving in all twitch area functions for now and all other buttons passing thru to a different virtual midi port that u can connect as tho it was the real launchpad to your existing mapping. edit: just out of interest... what is the appeal of using the lp in rotated mode? the only reason i can believe of is when i use both of mine together edit2: do u have a button anywhere that u use as a "shift"? if so i can add that to the midimasher config for use in the twitch areas and also make it send out the normal launchpad midi to traktor so it behaves as your usual shift button too edit3: my config also uses a 2nd shift button that when pressed enables the slicer when u jump to a hotcue - quite handy - tho you'd then ofc need to use my hotcue's in the twitch area |
| Tawna Ulmen 21.03.2012 | I want one page with performance controls on it. I have other controllers for a lot of functions. I'm trying to create an expresive FX pad that lets me mash tracks on the fly. Row 1 is and FX preset selector. Rows 2,3,4 are FX triggers. Row 5 is loop controls Rows 6,7 & 8 are empty atm. I would like to add your twitch style slicer and loop roll to the last 3 rows of my setup. The buttons on the left hand side are used for setting tempo. i.e. Mixer button sets bpm to 170bpm, left arrow sets bmp to 70bpm. The buttons along the top of launchpad are used for setting and adjusting beatgrids. I would add a diagrame but im in work atm. I dont really need any other pages and I would like to keep my current mapping as it is (took ages to get it just how i want it.) I had a look at the lua files in a hope that I would be able to do this myself. Sadly it when right over my head. I have no idea what im doing or where to even start so any help would be aprecated. Thanks |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 21.03.2012 | sure, pretty easy. depends on quite what u want to do. as you already (i presume) have your launchpad mapped in traktor u just want the top 5 rows (and outer buttons) to send out the same messages that they do currently to tracktor? then the bottom 3 rows (for the twitch areas) u want those to send out different midi messages depending on which page they're on or you want to do the actual mapping within midimasher? alternatively u can ofc do all your actual mapping within midimasher but it probably makes more sense to keep the actual mapping of controls within traktor for your setup and just use midimasher to create the different layers? also do you want the overall 4 different pages, using page 1 for your own mapping, or just have the one overall page. the page switching is currently done using buttons "session", "user1", "user2", "mixer" but u could use any (outer) buttons for this. |
| Tawna Ulmen 20.03.2012 | Is it posible to remove everything apart from the twitch section on the bottom three rows of the launchpad setup? I already have most of my launchpad setup how I want it with three rows on the bottom free. I use my launchpad in the rotated position with the usb at the top. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 16.03.2012 | launchpad+nanokontrol == 2x F1's? reading more about the F1 and traktor 2.5 i figure with some not too tricky coding i can put all the F1 logic inside a midimasher config and then use a launchpad and nanokontrol to emulate two F1's... sure the lp doesnt have full rgb but should be fine. plus we don't know how the colouring and midi feedback will work for that yet. i've been holding out on adding sample decks stuff to my launchpad mapping to complete so people can try it out and i figure that the F1 should in theory be the perfect controller for the sample decks stuff - so why not just emulate it? that then leaves me a 4x4 grid on page one of the mapping for some effects stuff or move the virtual midi fighter to the spare page 3 and use the 8x4 grids on page one for a really full set of manual effects controls... i'll post some screenshots in the next few days and see if anyone has any thoughts/ideas on it... |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.03.2012 |
Originally Posted by Onimode
yup - still here last release of midimasher was 3 weeks ago, with a port to mac osx + linux and just before that i added midi sync code in (for sequencer code i'm working on) and stuff like the ability to queue messages in the future so code like the twitch style slicer doesn't hold up other processing. i can't wait for traktor 2.5 (esp now we know it's a free upgrade ) and to get some cool remix decks stuff in and then will finally release a complete-ish mapping for traktor+launchpad. will hopefully finish some documentation in the meantime - and also believeing about some kind of gui, at least for basic configs. still not 100% sure how it would work tho. |
| Kayce Mesia 15.03.2012 | Suddenly epic bump and my first post in over a month. zestoi, are you still checking this place out? I finally have some time and motivation to dedicate towards this stuff. :P |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 22.02.2012 | new build for mac os x. the initial one was only for intel, this one (and all subsequent ones) is a universal binary that should run on intel and ppc. so far not tested on ppc tho (as i don't have a ppc mac) http://midimasher.djism.com/downloads/ edit: just realised that traktor is intel only... tho will keep building universal binaries based on SDK 10.5 for the time being as i had a request for a ppc version (for use with other software). |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 20.02.2012 | versions now available for mac osx, linux and windows: http://midimasher.djism.com/downloads/ setup instructions updated: http://midimasher.djism.com/ windows versions are zipped as before with .bat files to run diff configs mac osx version is a compressed dmg so u can just download and double click on midimasher and you're good to go since u don't need to manually setup any virtual midi ports it uses .command files (bash script) to run diff configs tho your finder will hide the .command extension linux version is a tgz. obviously no traktor for linux but it will work with any midi devices/software. virtual midi ports are also created automatically when needed. bash scripts to run diff configs have a .sh extension to see what it can do and u have a launchpad (whether u have traktor or not) just run the "launchpad" script which has 4 virtual pages/layers of controls selected from buttons session/user1/user2/mixer and 2 twitch-style areas at the bottom of the 'session' page |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 16.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by gingerman
i presume using a vci100+midifighter must be a fairly common thing to want to do... manually setting up the effects in the right order for the midifighter mappings shouldn't be too much of a pain either tho |
| Odilia Gatica 16.02.2012 | @Zestoi Ok, cool..... I Will give it a try and let ya know how i get on |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 14.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by raags
the problem will be the traktor config i guess... the virtual midifighter stuff in midimasher just emulates a real midifighter - so u need to import a 4banks tsi into traktor - like the instant grat one (there is also a normal mode midifighter function in midimasher if u wanted deckalized etc) so u need to import/setup the *real* midifighter instant grat tsi. that's the tsi that u select the 'MidiFighter1 Output' and 'MidiFighter1 Input' ports for. the traktor tsi should be linked to "MM to Traktor" etc - but u won't need that unless you're using more normal midimasher functions. a 4banks midifighter/instant-grat could ofc be coded just within midimasher - but i wanted to try and emulate a real midifighter so then people can use whatever normal midifighter tsi's that they wanted. fyi if u wanted to emulate a normal mode midifighter instead just replace the call to virtual_midifighter_4banks() with virtual_midifighter() and job done... could even in fact emulate both at the same time on different layers |
| Sherill Minto 14.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
however i'm still unable to get it going in Traktor. i opened loopmidi, loaded traktor and imported (small button) traktor.tsi, selected the input as 'MidiFighter1 Output' and for output 'MidiFighter1 Input'. closed traktor, opened midimasher, loaded the config, and reopened traktor... no go. it's detecting button presses (the ctrl light lights up) but no effects or anything are being triggered. here's my midimasher output if this helps. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 14.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by gingerman
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| Chasidy Heckenbach 14.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by gingerman
the only reason afaik the instant grat tsi needs the use of the big import button is to get the effects units setup the way it needs them and the correct effects selected in the right order. u can always tweak those manually afterwards anyway - i'm sure i've seen someone post what order the effects need to be in for the instant grat to work properly. the actual midimasher traktor.tsi file is just imported using the small import button. btw midimasher now has hid support builtin - tho i have a feeling i forgot to add the hidlearn.exe and hiddump.exe apps to the last release |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 14.02.2012 | it's because u have this:
Originally Posted by raags
Code:
--
-- virtual midifighter using a akai mpd18.
--
open_midi_device("midifighter1", "generic", "MidiFighter1 Input", "MidiFighter1 Output")
open_midi_device("mpd18", "mpd18", "Delta AP MIDI", "Delta AP MIDI")
virtual_midifighter_4banks("mpd18", 0, "midifighter1", 0, 0, 127, 0)
|
| Odilia Gatica 14.02.2012 | PS. I know i use lots of smilie's, but i like smily people, and it makes it look like there are skittles or M&M's on my screen, NOM NOM NOM |
| Odilia Gatica 14.02.2012 | Hello people I shall try to explain my problem/concern the best i can. I tried using Zestoi's LPD8 midimasher a while back and had no luck, because to be honest i get a bit lost/confused when dealing with lots of virtual midi cables rather than real ones, and my setup is crazy enough as it is :eek: Things have moved on a lot with Zestoi's excellent work (that is WAY beyond me) i see, so i'm going to try and get this working again on my LPD8, as i would LOVE to get this working, but my concern/question is this........ I want to use DJTT VCI-100 mappings, and Zestoi's LPD8 midimasher mappings, but they BOTH require you to use the BIG import button to work correctly, but the BIG import button deletes all previous mappings, so how do i load them both properly? I have a Vestax VCI-100 FW1.4, LPD8 , DDM4000, Kaos pad 2, RY30, PS2 joystick etc. all with modified or custom mappings that i have saved seperately, so i can import those after i BIG import VCI/Midimasher.tsi's with no problem, but i dont know how to import the DJTT VCI mappings and the Midimasher mappings without losing one or the other of those? I believe this question applies to using the midimasher & VCi, or the real midifighter & VCI? If this has been covered before, or should be in another thread, then i apologise I hope this makes sense and someone can help me, or i am going to waste a lot of time just getting my setup back to how it was before i started trying this, so i am calling for help! I know the BIG import thing is a NI software bug/problem, not problems with peoples mappings, and i am amazed at the work people like Ean/Zestoi (and LOTS of others!) do for this community and people like me, and i am eternally grateful Anyway, enough of my ramblings, happy valentines to ya! |
| Nana Mohs 14.02.2012 | Does your MPD show up as a midi device anywhere? It doesn't look like it's showing up at all in MM. Check it out in traktor? |
| Sherill Minto 14.02.2012 | I changed my mpd18_midifighter_4banks.lua so it looks like this: -- -- virtual midifighter using a akai mpd18. --open_midi_device("midifighter1", "generic", "MidiFighter1 Input", "MidiFighter1 Output");open_midi_device("mpd18", "mpd18", "Delta AP MIDI", "Delta AP MIDI") virtual_midifighter_4banks("mpd18", 0, "midifighter1", 0, 0, 127, 0) In Midiloop I have: MM to Traktor Traktor to MM MidiFighter1 Input Midifighter1 Output This is the debug_file.bat output for this configuration: I get no response when I press the pads with these changes (which I tried to incorporate based off your most recent post). ---------------------------------------------- I'm really confused now... ugh |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 14.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by raags
basically in the line like: open_midi_device("midifighter1", "generic", "MidiFighter1 Input", "MidiFighter1 Output") virtual_midifighter_4banks("mpd18", 0, "midifighter1", 0, 0, 127, 0) the "midifighter1" in each line needs to be the same and "MidiFighter1 Input" and "MidiFighter1 Output" need to exactly match the loopmidi port names u have created. also one thought - after what other people have said about mpd's... if u see things happening in traktor but the effect resetting before u release the pads it could be that since the mpd's are designed to be drum pads that they automtically send out a note-off a few milliseconds after u press a pad, independent of when u actually release it. if so then the only thing i could do is create a 'toggled' virtual midifighter function that activates when u first press and deactivates when u press again i'm off for a while but will be online again later and will check the community again... |
| Sherill Minto 14.02.2012 | Hmmm I altered the port names in MidiLoop to "MidiFighter1 Input" etc, closed loopmidi and midimasher, reopened loopmidi then midimasher and it's still giving the same error in debug.bat and midimasher.bat. "device[midifighter1] is not connected" ideas? also just tried renaming them in loopmidi a la 'midifighter1 input' and same issue |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 14.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by raags
the port names are case sensitive (something i keep meaning to change - will do for the next release) so u need to change your virtual ports from like "Midifighter1 Input" to "MidiFighter1 Input" etc and that should do the trick looks like the notes sent out by the pads match the mpd18's ones so i'll copy the mpd18 config to mpd16 for other people to (hopefully) use.
Still learn.exe is crashing when I choose Delta AP MIDI though.
Thanks so much
|
| Sherill Minto 14.02.2012 | Not sure if it makes any difference but my pad controller is the MPD16 which is marginally different to the MPD18. It's going into the MIDI IN of my M-Audio Delta AP rather than running via USB as there's no Windows 7 drivers for it. Altered the config as you said and I just tried running debug.bat... It doesn't crash, it responds to key presses from the pads. I couldn't copypaste from the command prompt it created and was too lazy to open a new one so I just took screenshots. (right click/open in new tab for bigger) Still learn.exe is crashing when I choose Delta AP MIDI though. Thanks so much |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 14.02.2012 | what happens if u have a config with this line in: open_midi_device("mpd18", "mpd18", "Delta AP MIDI", "Delta AP MIDI") the first port name will be the most important, as that's the port midimasher will read from and i presume both in+out ports will be the delta. if u then run debug.bat in theory it should output your pad presses at least. tho since learn.exe died it could be something more serious - would be odd tho... could u paste me the output from running that? and/or if u run debug_file.bat it should create a debug.txt file with any output in after u ctrl-c unless it crashes and then won't be able to probably... i'll have some time later to look into it edit: if there's only midi input from the mpd18 (i have no real clue about it) then this would/should work: open_midi_device("mpd18", "mpd18", "Delta AP MIDI", "") |
| Sherill Minto 14.02.2012 | Ahhh wtf... No idea where the PM went. I'll write it out again... Basically I'm trying to get my MPD16 working with Midimasher/MidiLoop in traktor. it's connected via MIDI (NOT USB) through my M-Audio Delta AP, which is identified in Traktor and Midimasher as an in as 'Delta AP MIDI'. I've tried to get it working by altering the line: open_midi_device("mpd18", "mpd18", "Akai MPD18", "Delta AP MIDI", 2) to include Delta AP MIDI... this didn't work. Then I tried to use learn.exe to program it, selecting '1: Delta AP MIDI' as the device to use. I get the following error: Where am I going wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 14.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by raags
they seem to sort-of-work with the virtual midifighter code for example - but it's like the pads are released before they actually are. i'm sure we can debug it though... and any fix should then fix any/all mpd i presume/hope |
| Sherill Minto 14.02.2012 | Hey mate... shot you a PM trying to get a MPD16 working with MIDImasher. would love your help |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 13.02.2012 | quick update... the mac osx and linux versions now support built in midi ports, so no need to use the IAC Driver etc. windows version will have virtual midi ports maybe sometime if i can get access to the loopMIDI api or find some other code. having builtin virtual ports should reduce latency since now instead of data being processed like this: MM <--> VirtualPort <--> loopMIDI <--> VirtualPort <--> Traktor it's just doing this, so bypassing one set of midi layer processing and any extra delay caused by going via a sep app: MM <--> VirtualPort <--> Traktor if a V: is put at the start of any midi port name it will first look for a port named like that (minus the V: ) and if doesn't exist will create a virtual midi port normal and virtual ports can be used together in the same open_midi_device() call open_midi_device("mydev", "generic", "real in", "V:virtual out") open_midi_device("traktor", "traktor", "V:Traktor to MM", "V:MM to Traktor") |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 12.02.2012 | quick update... i now have working versions of midimasher for windows, mac osx and linux... will release them all in the next version once i've improved my launchpad mapping. if anyone wants to try them in the meantime i can release earlier tho... |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 12.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by muffintop
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| Nana Mohs 12.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
I just had a serious little issue with Win7 and have totally switched to Linux (Ubuntu Studio) I was going to try MM out in Wine, but if a native Linux version could be available... :eek: Edit Also, I am happy to test Linux versions out. I'll shoot you a pm |
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