Why did Sasha move away from Ableton and back to CDJ's?
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Why did Sasha move away from Ableton and back to CDJ's? Posted on: 09.11.2011 by Arcelia Siebeneck thought this might be an interesting thing to discuss... a few years back there was a big debate among the midibox scene about whether or not Sasha had paid vast amounts of money to produce his own ableton live controller based on the midibox. Around that time he released at least two albums (the Involver series) and was dj'ing around the world using the Mavern and Ableton Live. More recently, every time I've seen him play out, he's been back on the CDJ's. I heard that his controller wasn't 100% reliable all the time but it still seems like a strange regression from someone who was so pro-ableton. Thoughts? | |
| Dorie Scelzo 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Emmett
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| Delicia Rissmann 10.11.2011 | Digital DJing, Ableton sets etc. are great tools but it seems a lot of people jump in to it and then get quite disillusioned after a while, including me. Like the poster mentioned above, some of the controllerist sets and four deck loop sets are often much worse or boring than hearing tracks played in their entirety. Some DJ's manage to do interesting things and produce great results but so many of them fail. Even someone like Richie Hawtin rarely produces better results in my eyes. Some of his recent 4 deck looping sets with constant dodgy effects are just awful compared to when he used to use just two technics and a drum machine. I read an interview with Donnacha Costello a while ago that highlighted this. He had gone 100% digital and got massively in to it until he watched Daniel Bell play a set at a festival in Japan. Bell played an amazing set with two turntables and a mixer. There were no fancy transitions and he would generally play each record out almost in its entirety before making a short, smooth transition to the next tune. He played amazing records that flowed well together without the need or desire to add anything extra to them. It caused Costello to re-believe his own approach and go back to basics. Andrew Weatherall is another example. He is without doubt one of the finest DJ's of our generation and he just plays one tune after another of amazing music with simple mixing. I'm not having a go at digital DJing. I love using Traktor myself (alongside vinyl). My own experiences of pure digital DJing are that I can either play a simple two deck set with no effects like I used to on decks which makes me feel incredibly bored and disengaged. Or, I can try and do all the fancy stuff, looping and effects - and have fun doing it - but end up producing results worse than the expertly produced music would sound on its own. The answer could be that I need to improve my digital skills to get better results, but my own answer was to go back to buying vinyl and doing traditional vinyl beatmatching alongside manually beatmatching music in Traktor to go alongside it. Sorry to ramble but I believe all this is one of the major factors that will stop traditional DJing dying completely. In my eyes, it's just a lot more fun and does absolutely nothing to hinder you as a DJ as long as you are a good one! |
| Ernie Walmsley 10.11.2011 | Class reads and great topic |
| Romelia Stankard 10.11.2011 | Well the thing is I don't want a big clunky midi controller just for jog wheels unless it is a CDJ-2000 and I could also ditch traktor when I didn't feel like connecting my laptop. I don't need jog wheels and wouldn't buy controllers just to have them, the CDJ-2000 isn't really a midi controller to me though and I would use them alone quite a bit since DJing on them is just more enjoyable to me. Having to connect a usb hub and like 5 usb devices and laptop is another reason I don't like complex controller setups. |
| Francie Gindin 10.11.2011 | ^Try a DNSC 2000 for its pitch fader, jog and buttons if you are looking for a cheap alternative. 100mm pitch at a resolution that is well good enough (.04%) and I have buttons for .01% which I use for really fine adjustment. The jogs work perfectly fine in vinyl or bend mode. The buttons feel like Denon's always have. Change your GUI to as minimal as you like... |
| Romelia Stankard 10.11.2011 | I don't blame him. I am not a fan of ableton at all for DJing- it is just too far removed from having individual track decks and a mixer for me. The prep work and launching clips with the session layout just doesn't feel connected to the music. I like traktor and ssl because you still have actual deck units that you can load any song in your library into through your collection- it feels a lot more like DJing than arranging all the track you want to use in ableton beforehand and launching clips. Now that I ditched m S4 and am back on X1s it is still strange feeling to not have jog wheels and I do feel a little disconnected and am adjusting. If I could afford them I would get a pair of CDJ-2000s as controllers but that's a lot of money for good jog wheels, a play/cue button and pitch control. I'm sure if I had a pair I would find myself using traktor a lot less which I would enjoy since to be honest DJing on CDJ-2000s is a lot more fun for me than using midi controllers and a computer. I'm not about to drop $3000+ any time soon though. |
| Francie Gindin 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Leeanna Ayla 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Arcelia Siebeneck 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Random X 10.11.2011 | He still keeps on switching between setups, like Hawtin does. |
| Diogo Dj Dragão 10.11.2011 | He hasn't turned his back on it. |
| Dorie Scelzo 10.11.2011 | I'm not the least bit surprised. I saw one of them in person once, and it was one of the most impressive pieces of Industrial Design I've ever seen in person. The things were fucking works of art. I don't blame him for switching for reasons mentioned above, but I'd feel really bad turning my back on something that beautiful. |
| Diogo Dj Dragão 10.11.2011 | The biggest reason he decided to switch had nothing to do with reliability issues with the Maven. It had to do with the fact that he felt disconnected from the music. Moving back to CDJs gives him a better personal experience - filled a gap he was experiencing. Also, there were more than 2 Mavens, they didn't have some overkill soundcard in them, and the reason they were expensive is because the components used in the construction were the best of the best. Parts were chosen not just because they fit the bill from an engineering standpoint, but also because they felt exactly the way Sasha and the builder WANTED them to feel. Everything on the Maven was quality, from the recessed ports in the back to the linear faders and pots. |
| Johnetta Olewine 10.11.2011 | As far as his ableton mixes being sub par, I rate Invol2ver. That mix freaking owns and is quite reminiscent of his chuggy prog roots. That being said, I haven't seen the surly fellow live for years. |
| Dorie Scelzo 10.11.2011 | Agreed. I'd really like to see a thread about why people use what they use and how they came to it. We'd get a lot of "it was cheap," or "i don't need anything more" entries because most people just aren't as verbose as me, but |
| Len Lukawski 10.11.2011 | One of the most interesting threads I have read in ages. We need MUCH more like this. Good work fellas |
| Dorie Scelzo 10.11.2011 | Cut Me Down became an anthem, really? Apparently I don't go out enough, but |
| Lin Danek 09.11.2011 | I found his mixes in the Mavern era confusing - he seemed to suprise you with track selections rather than wow you with the mixing - the mixing in the elusive Los Angeles 'Live' compilation is in my opinion rather shoddy. His dabblings with Traktor and X1's was all hype, but amounted to nothing. I feel he, like Digweed has come full circle. His style has changed, his Ushaiha project has showcased fresh talent and 'Cut Me Down' became an anthem. He really seems to be having a good time. I find his latest quote quite interesting (I'll dig out the original), but he basically says that the DJ booth of the future will be massive servers of music and interfaces for DJ's to plug 'n play with controllers. |
| Dorie Scelzo 09.11.2011 | It was a reliability and hassle issue. Basically, he had the Maven built to custom specs with a nice but really overkill sound card in it |
| Dana Ordinario 10.11.2011 | Everyone needs a change. Also with cdj 2000 and the djm 2000 you have a lot more things available to you that can give you more things to do. I agree that ableton can be a much better tool but requires lots of prep. It's nice to show up to a gig with a stack of CDs or a USB stick and going wherever the evening takes you. |
| Birgit Gondal 09.11.2011 | well to be honest, sashas sets from his ableton era sound extremely lazy, and for a man who was whacking on one tune every 9 minutes and mucking around with effects, he wasnt using it for much of its potential. his more recent sets seem a lot more involved, and when i saw him last month i saw a rare thing, sasha actually smiling... i believe he just enjoys it a lot more. i used to be totally pro-complete-controllerism, all 'forward believeing' and that. i loved the idea of being on the cutting edge and trying to push it to the limit. now i'm 2 tables and a mixer, TSP2 as a record box and FX processor... i just prefer the touch of vinyl and how much more involved it feels. maybe sashas the same, maybe not. but he does seem to be enjoying himself a hell of a lot more now hes back on them! |
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