Why did Sasha move away from Ableton and back to CDJ's?
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Why did Sasha move away from Ableton and back to CDJ's? Posted on: 09.11.2011 by Arcelia Siebeneck thought this might be an interesting thing to discuss... a few years back there was a big debate among the midibox scene about whether or not Sasha had paid vast amounts of money to produce his own ableton live controller based on the midibox. Around that time he released at least two albums (the Involver series) and was dj'ing around the world using the Mavern and Ableton Live. More recently, every time I've seen him play out, he's been back on the CDJ's. I heard that his controller wasn't 100% reliable all the time but it still seems like a strange regression from someone who was so pro-ableton. Thoughts? | |
| Maryanne Weatherill 11.11.2011 | I like this thread alot. Although i fully agree with Milo that the diy controller threads where so much more interesting up until about a year ago the atmosphere on here has also changed quiet a bit but sure that happens on every community
. Anyway back on topic. @nemonic and Prof can you tell us why Midibox wouldnt work? Because to me it seems like if the 'builder' of the Maven didnt use Midibox he must of spent a hell of a lot of time rebuilding a whole new midi system and if he didnt use midibox why not prove to the world that it was his own design by telling us? |
| Diogo Dj Dragão 12.11.2011 | I'm not quite as bound as Prof, so I'll give a little more information. Milo, Prof and I are both product managers for companies that make DJ products. It doesn't take a lot of digging to find out who for. We both know VERY WELL the person responsible for making all of the Maven controllers for Sasha. We've both known him for years. We've both held Mavens, opened them up and looked inside them, and talked extensively about what went into the build. Legally we can't go into any more detail without violating agreements we have made, and violating the trust of a friend. You can choose to believe us or not. |
| Dorie Scelzo 11.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by duerr
I did remember listening to an audio-only mix a long time ago, and I gave up on it in fifteen minutes because despite not having any controllerist routines, it sounded disjointed and |
| Johnetta Olewine 11.11.2011 | i live about an hour north of the milo factory by the way. |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 11.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by oliosky
the thing I miss is the controller subcommunity being more diy/hack hardware related and less about commercial controllers. It's something that made this place different from most other websites and really matched the original ethos of DJTT (Ean hacking midi controllers with arcade buttons). It's something that's sorely missed from here now I believe, but I guess it's inevitable as soon as DJTT became a proper business and not just Ean's blog. |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 11.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Professorbx
there are two possibilities - one is that you're a sasha fanboy... And the other, more likely possibility, is that you have some sort of insider knowledge on the maven. If this is the case, then why on earth would anyone connected to maven publically admit that it's based on midibox designs? If the maven is midibox hardware then it's not meeting the license terms and opensource ethos you agree to when using MIOS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDIbox...tem_.28MIOS.29 now, as you and nem0nic seem to be friendly, I'll presume you work in the midi hardware industry. If you've signed an NDA, then fair enough... otherwise, let's have some more details! If it's not midibox hardware I'm pretty sure we're all dying to know more about it. |
| Sharlene Brownsberger 11.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by nem0nic
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| Sharlene Brownsberger 11.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by MiL0
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| Arcelia Siebeneck 11.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Professorbx
you are literally the first person I've seen on the net who's flat out denied the maven is based on midibox specs. it sounds like you've seen inside the maven or have some insider knowledge (or you're a massive Sasha fanboi) - got any evidence to back your claim up? http://jessebrede.com/wordpress/wp-c...asha_maven.jpg http://midibox.org/community s/topic/4207...face-for-live/
Ok, tame the anti-talent sasha flames for a minute, I need links to any and all info/press releases/etc. regarding "his" maven controller.
I got an email many moons ago from a guy "building a controller for sasha", and continued contact via email to sell him some boards and kits, and to help them through some technical issues during the build. My believeing was this would be a great thing to have some world famous people using the MIDIbox, so I helped and treated them with the same attitude I have with any customer...... Now that it's done and has it's own press release(s), I find no mention of MIDIbox or TK, and I have a problem with that while I watch sasha take full credit in the interviews for the controller. I know who's work it is, now you know who's work it is, now help me let everyone drooling over or bashing sasha's "maven" box know. Surely this is just an oversight, so let's correct it! ;D I have three goals here: 1) The ableton community should know that "maven" is a MIDIbox....Anyone a local there? 2) To let the whole industry know that "maven" is built on an open-source design, so that the manufacturers contemplating the new sasha controller lineup for guitar center will know that it's a DIY freebie for anyone who wants it, and commercial production is prohibited. 3) To help sasha and his builders better comply with the license by releasing a ready to go "maven" app. and docs (you know, the whole sharing your improvements with the community thing, good thing we can help them with that!) Thoughts/questions/comments? Best! Smash
The people he paid to do this need a warning from my lawyers about the license....just in case they have plans to mass produce or get cloned by behringer.
Even though it's a rather weak CS layout, there is now an instant market for it, so either we release it for free and get the word out or a company does it and gets rich, and could later use money (trash patents/litigation) to own the design by force. I really believe it is important to let everyone know "maven" = MIDIbox, especially if these highly paid builders did not let even Sasha know. There is no "might be a MIDIbox" about it, unless they were able to completely redesign this controller in the couple of months between when I talked to them last and it's debut. It -is- a MIDIbox until someone shows me pictures of the guts without boards from my shop or even a PIC18F452...... I had no idea helping these guys would turn out like this, I should have told them to get bent like I do all the other profiteers. Comments? Smash |
| Verlene Geevarghese 11.11.2011 | Having seen him a good amount of times, mostly utilizing the Maven, and listening to his interviews and his opinion on the scene, I believe he moved from Ableton for three reasons. 1. He was tired of luggin the shit around, and Pioneer came up with a 'reliable', light system for him to mix with, without having to bring anything but his rider, a thumb drive, and/or his laptop. 2. He likes to innovate (or at least attempt to), and the Ableton dj crowd is rather saturated. He was no longer on the cutting edge, and could no longer justify towing the rig around. 3. Mixers with interfaces allow him to still feed in Ableton on the days he still feels like performing with it. Some of his first mixes with Ableton were truly fantastic, but as the years wore on, they all started to sound the same. A cut up track here, layered tracks there, ping pong/delay effect everywhere. Then I heard he was making the switch back to CDJ's, and I thought "Great!". This meant he was going to 'tone' it down a bit if you will, and get back to basics. Which he did. Some of the first sets were fantastic (Positive Education is one that comes to mind). Then I heard a few that were lazy, uninspired turds. And I realized something. The man gets bored quickly, and there are days when I wonder why he even bothers. He's always looking for something to get him ignited again after his latest proximity infatuation fades from interest. Having said that, I still love the man, and I still dive headfirst into all of his work. As has been stated above, the Involver series is top notch, and are still go to mixes for me. Unfortunately for fans of Sasha, there are going to be periods of utter shit, and epochs of pure glory, and you just have to live with it. |
| Diogo Dj Dragão 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Professorbx
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| nayit ruiz jaramillo 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by oliosky
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| Sharlene Brownsberger 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by MiL0
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| Philip Degener 10.11.2011 | another reason to take a break from ableton is time. as long as you know your music well you can pretty much bust out good stuff on the fly w vinyl or cds...whereas the the amount of setup time required to put a good ableton set on is much higher. i could see that getting old after awhile. |
| Johnetta Olewine 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
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| Margie Pavell 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by JonathanBlake
i did notice sasha's recent sets took on a almost bored feel... |
| Margie Pavell 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| nayit ruiz jaramillo 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Alex Wild
Originally Posted by oliosky
Ive read some horse-shit on DJF, and few people having a pop at me hahaha funny stuff!!!
Originally Posted by oliosky
Id never do one of his routines, they hold no interest for me and ive said it before but this place isnt just about Eans routines. I have mad respect for the guy, i just dont DJ like him. Jus sayin' for balance. |
| Matthew Yanagisawa 10.11.2011 | Although Sasha is not on my list of favorite dj's, I'm curious about hearing a set of him working with the Maven and a more recent set with CDJ's as said to be more engaging (the smiling set). If any1 can drop a name thanks will be given. As far as Ean goes maybe he can afford to play whatever he likes without worrying if people might like it or not? I have to admit that many tracks I play are just 'for the audience' that are either overplayed or downright suck. Maybe it is a local thing, different from anywhere in the world, but a working dj here must please it's partner (the audience) in order to get paid (Just like a manwhore). |
| Belen Wermes 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by oliosky
more like "herp derp dubstep, sherp da merp skrillex" |
| Julietta Mistretta 10.11.2011 | I've often heard art's purpose (aside from possibly not requiring a purpose) is to take you out of your comfort zone and give you a different take on someone else's perspective of something. Maybe it gets you to believe a little more about the current state of "something" and shift that "something" in another direction, going forward. |
| Johnetta Olewine 10.11.2011 | Blame djf being down for the decent discussion IMO. Not the usual "my s4 is so awesome" bollocks. I also believe its great to see people actually discussing the elephant in the room in regards to this site, that the whole ean golden mashing routines really are a bit meh... After seeing the two collabs with q-Bert I felt almost uncomfortable for the guy. Ean's Technical knowledge of traktor and vision with the controller design etc I can't deny, but the routines are largely unpleasant to my ears. |
| Romelia Stankard 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by duerr
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| Kesha Orde 10.11.2011 | Really glad to see some interesting discussion on here instead of the usual threads. |
| Belen Wermes 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
checkout some of Ean's mixes in the promo section, it's totally different than what he does on his video demos. the last one i heard was this house mix that was more on the traditional mixing side of things. don't write him off as just the cue juggling guy. |
| Lin Danek 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by VanGogo
That's GOOD. |
| Lin Danek 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Julietta Mistretta 10.11.2011 | Excellent discussion. Ean's videos, to me, simply allow your brain to detach from a normal perspective on what you can / could do with any pair of tables and give you a point of view from someone who wants to completely deconstruct and then reconstruct a song on the fly. I don't get the feeling he is some wanker artist out to create music only he likes, but instead publishes those videos to say, "We are working hard to design gear that allows you to create something like this in whatever style and flavor you may like." I do agree that when you try to take 4 mastered songs and squeeze them together with loops, effects, slices, etc., you are generally going to create nothing more than a muddy mess. Serves as a good reminder to work harder on track selection than using what boils down to bondo, paint, and sandpaper to cover up a bad patch job. :/ |
| Romelia Stankard 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by VanGogo
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| Charline Dye 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
I agree that some of the routines are not very ear pleasing. I whole heatedly agree with the Fx whoring by noobs that sounds like ass, but they will either get better or go away in time. To me using a controller to DJ doesn't equal Controllerism. Like using turntables to mix doesn't equal turntablism (DMC routines). |
| Mechelle Duncil 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
The thing about performing is to share emotions thorugh an instrument, in this case your decks. For anybody that has played any instrument and performed with it will inmediately feel very strange the sensation of controlling a machine in order to get sounds out of it. On the other hand the feeling of having an analogue instrument as 2 vinyl decks and make them sound great together does totally feel like playing any other musical instrument. I always felt that playing 4 decks with tracktor was like being the orchestra director, I did not even get too much nerves before playing live. The music was safe, I just had to tell the software what to do. My nerves were only focused on the reliability of the gear. On the other hand when I play on vinyl even on cd decks I really have the feel and conection with music as the muscician from an orchestra would. And I get the real nerves and I like that Maybe that is why Sasha was smiling again as mentioned before, because it really pays back to some people. It relly depends on your character I guess. After playing 3/4 years with traktor my brain was believeing more as a computer. My brain was really focused on computer and technical stuff like file types, bitrates, folders in which each song would be, mappings, cables, type of cables, you know better than me... For a small brain like mine this tend to be quite frustrating. Specially when things didn |
| Romelia Stankard 11.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Dorie Scelzo 11.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by 3IJ
Unlike him, though, I don't believe it has much to do with sync. Beat matching doesn't take that much more time to do when you're good at it |
| Leeanna Ayla 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by tekki
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| Random X 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by JonathanBlake
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| Leeanna Ayla 10.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by 3IJ
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| Lin Danek 10.11.2011 | Layo & Bushwacka seemed to like 'Cut Me Down', as did some large audiences in Ibiza. Both Involvers have stood the test of time. Ean is not my cup of tea musically either - but isn't wanker a bit harsh? |
| Philip Degener 10.11.2011 | awesome thread. i wonder what it says about the quality of today's music that many feel the need to layer multiple tracks or effect the crap out of it. |
| Dorie Scelzo 10.11.2011 | Right, I responded to the wanker comment above. I stand by it, but you and Emmet both explained it better. We all agree |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 10.11.2011 | I've noticed a bit of a 'controllerism' backlash on this community
recently...
Originally Posted by mostapha
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