Calvin Harris
and Dillon Francis
worked there... no way!
| Are post fader fx possible in Traktor for example, if I use reverb and and pull the channel fader down i'd still like to hear the reverb. I used to be able to do it on my old djm 600.
I believe traktor uses pre fader fx, so when I pull the fader down it cuts the fx along with the music, which is a bit annoying!
Anyone know if there is a way around this?
I'm using a mixtrack pro.
Thanks. | Dionne Bullock
30.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
PLEASE spoil it for me.. have just been messing around in a blank mapping (as my live one is too complex atm to start fiddling!).
Sorry I made you wait like this. I have updated the other thread.
http://www.djranking
s.com/community
/sho...t=41385&page=2 | Dionne Bullock
30.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Ooh, Traktor MUST also always be running the modifier commands first.. otherwise commands that you have set up on a toggling modifier wouldn't run - if it ran the command before changing the modifier, then you'd get totally the wrong results. Just something else to consider!
Just going to use Deck Flavor on inc mode... that way as it passes through live input, it can use then to change to advanced. Means I free up a modifier AND get more functionality (in that I get Live deck!! )
Hey there, sorry for the suspense. About the modifier, I believe you got it right but you spelled it out the opposite. Traktor always checks the modifier conditions first -- that's why the toggle works. It checks its state and then changes its state. And in fact, if you assign another function to the modifier toggle, so far as I have tested, the button does other stuff according to the old modifier value and then changes the modifier value. I'll elaborate in the other thread. Don't give up! My method doesn't require a modifier. | Chasidy Heckenbach
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Ooh, Traktor MUST also always be running the modifier commands first.. otherwise commands that you have set up on a toggling modifier wouldn't run - if it ran the command before changing the modifier, then you'd get totally the wrong results. Just something else to consider!
definately makes sense, tho i had (before all of this discussion) assumed that even that wasn't important and that traktor somehow prioritised the current control events. what's worse is that there's no easy way to re-order in traktor ofc...
worth moving this discussion to the new thread probably - this "post fader fx" one has become quite derailed | Sulema Eshel
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
Hey y'all, I got this to work on one button.
I got to beatjump +2 and beat jump + 4 and get +6 as a result on one button too.
I can't believe I missed this. I knew there was something funky going on. I could have sworn that my post fader FX mode button was a "single push" button, no matter what the previous state was, but I somehow couldn't get it to work when I tried to re-map it. I'm betting that you can figure out how I did it so am not writing it here It's so cool when you discover this... don't want to spoil it for you.
PLEASE spoil it for me.. have just been messing around in a blank mapping (as my live one is too complex atm to start fiddling!).
Swapped about order... I can get the deck to maximise, but only a microsecond before changing to sample deck! Re-mapping/ordering results in nothing happening (as it is trying to change to advanced in sample mode). I am using modifiers to swap between track & sample deck (not using live deck). If I do just use "inc" without modifiers (so that it rotates from track>sample>live) then I can get it working. My head hurts now!
Ooh, Traktor MUST also always be running the modifier commands first.. otherwise commands that you have set up on a toggling modifier wouldn't run - if it ran the command before changing the modifier, then you'd get totally the wrong results. Just something else to consider!
Just going to use Deck Flavor on inc mode... that way as it passes through live input, it can use then to change to advanced. Means I free up a modifier AND get more functionality (in that I get Live deck!! ) | Dionne Bullock
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Yeah.. have been trying to get "Change Deck Flavor=Track Deck" & "Deck Size=Advanced" to work with one button press, but without success. If I come out of the sample decks the decks default to compact size (believe it's compact - the one between micro and normal size). Have to then press button again to get the decks to switch to advanced size
Hey y'all, I got this to work on one button.
I got to beatjump +2 and beat jump + 4 and get +6 as a result on one button too.
I can't believe I missed this. I knew there was something funky going on. I could have sworn that my post fader FX mode button was a "single push" button, no matter what the previous state was, but I somehow couldn't get it to work when I tried to re-map it. I'm betting that you can figure out how I did it so am not writing it here It's so cool when you discover this... don't want to spoil it for you.
I started a new thread over here: http://www.djranking
s.com/community
/sho...070#post388070
Please join me and let's get to the bottom of this!! | Dionne Bullock
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by JasonPaul
I didn't read the whole thread so I am not sure this answer has been given yet. When you use effects and you want to keep the effect with out the track in the mix the only way possible is to stop the track or pause it. I have tried numerous ways around this since I use to use a send/return with my old mixers and liked to fade the track out while having a echo from the efx500 slowly fade out over the next track.
Sorry. I kind of threw the thread off topic.
Here's the page with the info. Yes there is a way to get post fader effects.
http://www.djranking
s.com/community
/sho...t=39118&page=4
Check it out! | Dionne Bullock
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
the other thing i'd like to find out is just how/why/where traktor cares about 'off' messages and how they affect things. i've seen this related to a few things. where if u send say a midi velocity of 127 to do *something* but don't then send a zero velocity (which would normally be sent out when u released a button) and then send the same 127 out again it gets ignored, unless u wait long enough. i first saw this using the PC mode on my lpd8, just translating those PC messages into CC's. traktor wasn't always happy without the 0 velocity afterwards.
I believe that's pretty normal? Just like a CC that stays at a certain value does nothing - e.g., not moving the fader. There, it's probably not a "0" that's required but a change in velocity to trigger it again. My guess would be 126 will do just as well. | Dionne Bullock
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
What sucks for all of us but gives me hope that I am still onto something is that some actions seem to matter what order they occur in (even though they should not work in my "Traktor aims at instantaneousness theory"). Namely, set/store hotcue and beatjump. (I'm going to have to make sure of this after I post this once... it's getting way too long.....)
Holy... I don't understand what I mistook for the behavior I explained above, I believe I have moved yet another step closer to proving that the order isn't the issue unless the two actions contradict each other -- Hotcue + BeatJump and BeatJump + Hotcue result in the same... first goes to hotcue and then Jumps whatever beats specified.
I need to sort this out. All I ask for now is a consistent theory. | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
The 3ms delay might be the space needed in Traktor to believe of the two events as consecutive ones, not instantaneous ones... which ironically is what the string theory dude has been saying all along:eek: Man, I feel stupid now trying to prove something else and logically circling back to the start point...
to be fair i was saying that back in september, a long time before that blog article was written, when i first implemented my slicer in midimasher i just used a 10ms delay tho, didn't realise it could be as low as 3ms. the blog article also said 2ms i believe? which i don't find 100% reliable.
A) Effect panel mode single
B) Single FX select - delay
also when i posted earlier about traktor changing panel mode but not setting the effect i did have a delay in between them. i believe i even tried a 10ms delay but the fx select was still ignored, until i pressed the button again and it worked ok.
probably just down to traktor needing a certain amount of time to change the panel mode, since it's more work than most other commands i guess - i'm sure if i put in a really big delay it would work ofc.
the other thing i'd like to find out is just how/why/where traktor cares about 'off' messages and how they affect things. i've seen this related to a few things. where if u send say a midi velocity of 127 to do *something* but don't then send a zero velocity (which would normally be sent out when u released a button) and then send the same 127 out again it gets ignored, unless u wait long enough. i first saw this using the PC mode on my lpd8, just translating those PC messages into CC's. traktor wasn't always happy without the 0 velocity afterwards.
i'm sure NI won't ever spell out the intended behaviour of traktor down to these levels sadly anyway... | Dionne Bullock
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Just played around with the hotcue thing that I mentioned before. I set up a mapping to hotcue 3 (first) then to hotcue 4 (both from same button)... it ALWAYS went to HC4. I then swapped the commands (changed 'Set To Value' from 3 to 4 and 4 to 3), thus reversing commands. It then always went to hotcue 3. So if traktor has 2 competing commands, it seems to take the most recent one. Got to recheck my mappings now and hopefully see if i can fix my change deck flavor/change deck size thing...
Hey there. To be accurate, your example might not be demonstrative of how Traktor handles "competing commands" at all. (I said might) It could simply be that it first jumped to HC3, and instantly jumped to HC4 -- "exactly as you programmed it". Granted, it could be the case that it's discarding the first command and just doing the latter, but even so in this case Traktor "is deciding correctly" so bringing it up sort of weakens the point we are trying to make here. No offense.
The only strong evidence (I am not convinced it's hard proof yet) that Traktor is somehow fumbling with multiple commands is the double beatjump combo example.
Why am I not not convinced? Hear me out.
So far, we have seen some apparent consistency in Traktor to:
1)handle "older maps first" and work its way to "the newest map".
2)Some times it skips "older maps" and completes the "newest map"(the double beatjump example)
If this is consistently what's going on, it totally makes sense that if you map:
A) Single FX select - delay
B) Effect panel mode single
in this order, the first press will ignore A (because it can"t do it, it's in group mode) and do B. Once it's in Single mode, a second press will activate (A) and (B) -- just (B) won't matter because it's already in Single mode.
Well okay, so you decide to re-map it the other order.
A) Effect panel mode single
B) Single FX select - delay
Now, our expectation is that Traktor will do (A) and then (B) ... they seem doable as long as they are done in this order -- but no! Traktor changes the panel mode, and stops there.
Is this an unexpected bug? I believe not.
My current assumption is that Traktor, to the best of it's ability, tries to handle everything instantaneously.
In which case it turns out "the order is not important after all".:eek: (just an assumption)
You see, it's trying to do everything at once - so bad, that it checks up the panel mode before it changes to Single, and says, oh well, no can do...
This realization sort of shocked me, because seen in this light, even the "double beatjump" might be a result of just working as it should.
The assumption was that "beatjump" simply jumps however many beats it was told in whichever direction it was told. Maybe that's not how it works. Maybe it "refers to the current playhead location" and move the playhead to the new playhead location that you specified by XXX in the command "beatjump XXX". These two work similarly but are of different nature. The former can be added (a 4 beat forward jump + a 2 beat forward jump) but the latter can't. They are rather conflicting messages (one telling it to go to "4 beats forward from here" and the other "two beats forward from here") -- in which case, it literally can't do both, so it does the last in the line of commands.
The 3ms delay might be the space needed in Traktor to believe of the two events as consecutive ones, not instantaneous ones... which ironically is what the string theory dude has been saying all along:eek: Man, I feel stupid now trying to prove something else and logically circling back to the start point...
What sucks for all of us but gives me hope that I am still onto something is that some actions seem to matter what order they occur in (even though they should not work in my "Traktor aims at instantaneousness theory"). Namely, set/store hotcue and beatjump. (I'm going to have to make sure of this after I post this once... it's getting way too long.....) | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
BTW: Trying your midimasher app... I can't program for toffee, but I work in IT (well say I can't program, but my mappings are crazy). Looks at first glance though, as if I can deal with what's happening. I may well message you more as I fiddle with it.
cool feel free to ping me any questions or even better post them in the "Intermediary midi mapping" thread that is in my sig.
i only just started writing function documentation the other day, i'll be adding more over the week hopefully.
One thing though... google translate is kicking in and trying to translate from Albanian (see pic!) - looks English enough to me!
Thanks for your work on mm btw.
yep, i noticed that earlier... pretty odd. just added a meta tag to set the language and it still believes it's in albanian lol. i just let chrome translate it to english but it didn't change anything - so not sure what's triggering it. none of my servers are in albania anyway | Sulema Eshel
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
as suspected then... the biggest pain being that there's no easy way to reorder stuff in the controller manager, without deleting and re/adding. unless you can just change some params about like u did there.
Yeah, is going to mean that mapping stuff just got even more finicky (what with the small screen and all). Seeing that the tsi files are nothing more than a description of midi mappings, I'd wish NI would produce a program that edits them (so they wouldn't even have to change the traktor settings screen)... bring back the xml files of Traktor Pro early versions - god, things were simple back then!
BTW: Trying your midimasher app... I can't program for toffee, but I work in IT (well say I can't program, but my mappings are crazy). Looks at first glance though, as if I can deal with what's happening. I may well message you more as I fiddle with it. One thing though... google translate is kicking in and trying to translate from Albanian (see pic!) - looks English enough to me!
Thanks for your work on mm btw. | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Just played around with the hotcue thing that I mentioned before. I set up a mapping to hotcue 3 (first) then to hotcue 4 (both from same button)... it ALWAYS went to HC4. I then swapped the commands (changed 'Set To Value' from 3 to 4 and 4 to 3), thus reversing commands. It then always went to hotcue 3. So if traktor has 2 competing commands, it seems to take the most recent one. Got to recheck my mappings now and hopefully see if i can fix my change deck flavor/change deck size thing...
as suspected then... the biggest pain being that there's no easy way to reorder stuff in the controller manager, without deleting and re/adding. unless you can just change some params about like u did there. | Lora Ater
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by justanotherdj
for example, if I use reverb and and pull the channel fader down i'd still like to hear the reverb. I used to be able to do it on my old djm 600.
I believe traktor uses pre fader fx, so when I pull the fader down it cuts the fx along with the music, which is a bit annoying!
Anyone know if there is a way around this?
I'm using a mixtrack pro.
Thanks.
I didn't read the whole thread so I am not sure this answer has been given yet. When you use effects and you want to keep the effect with out the track in the mix the only way possible is to stop the track or pause it. I have tried numerous ways around this since I use to use a send/return with my old mixers and liked to fade the track out while having a echo from the efx500 slowly fade out over the next track. | Sulema Eshel
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
yep - the ones that didn't beat jump 6 only jumped by 4 beats - never 2 beats.
it all seems a bit odd to me. i can only presume due to some kind of error trapping/correction so if it finds the two beatjumps mapped to one control, or 2 different beatjumps coming in at the same time (tho still sequentially ofc) traktor tries to do what it believes u wanted... just a shame that it's wrong
i suppose this way might simplify some complex mappings within traktor - less modifiers etc needed if u can override an existing control? but since no one seems to quite know how/why it processes multiple items this behaviour doesn't make much sense to me.
Just played around with the hotcue thing that I mentioned before. I set up a mapping to hotcue 3 (first) then to hotcue 4 (both from same button)... it ALWAYS went to HC4. I then swapped the commands (changed 'Set To Value' from 3 to 4 and 4 to 3), thus reversing commands. It then always went to hotcue 3. So if traktor has 2 competing commands, it seems to take the most recent one. Got to recheck my mappings now and hopefully see if i can fix my change deck flavor/change deck size thing... | Chasidy Heckenbach
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
One little complaint I have in Traktor is that some options don't appear in the pulldown, although they are "doable". I know they are doable because manufacture mappings sometime come set to those options, and once you change it, the option never shows up in the pull down. (Like, it came in interaction mode "hold", while it's not offered as on option in the pull down once you change it to "trigger")
i just hit a traktor bug/issue related to this i believe... my midimasher mapping for selecting the effect for unit 1 in single mode was just setting the effect unit to "empty" when i moved the fader, even tho units 2/3/4 worked fine. i tried restarting traktor a few times and even changed the type to "button" etc and couldn't see any difference between that and the other ones. no modifiers were used ofc.
i deleted it and re-added and now all is fine... really odd... | Dionne Bullock
30.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
PLEASE spoil it for me.. have just been messing around in a blank mapping (as my live one is too complex atm to start fiddling!).
Sorry I made you wait like this. I have updated the other thread.
http://www.djranking
s.com/community
/sho...t=41385&page=2 | Dionne Bullock
30.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Ooh, Traktor MUST also always be running the modifier commands first.. otherwise commands that you have set up on a toggling modifier wouldn't run - if it ran the command before changing the modifier, then you'd get totally the wrong results. Just something else to consider!
Just going to use Deck Flavor on inc mode... that way as it passes through live input, it can use then to change to advanced. Means I free up a modifier AND get more functionality (in that I get Live deck!! )
Hey there, sorry for the suspense. About the modifier, I believe you got it right but you spelled it out the opposite. Traktor always checks the modifier conditions first -- that's why the toggle works. It checks its state and then changes its state. And in fact, if you assign another function to the modifier toggle, so far as I have tested, the button does other stuff according to the old modifier value and then changes the modifier value. I'll elaborate in the other thread. Don't give up! My method doesn't require a modifier. | Chasidy Heckenbach
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Ooh, Traktor MUST also always be running the modifier commands first.. otherwise commands that you have set up on a toggling modifier wouldn't run - if it ran the command before changing the modifier, then you'd get totally the wrong results. Just something else to consider!
definately makes sense, tho i had (before all of this discussion) assumed that even that wasn't important and that traktor somehow prioritised the current control events. what's worse is that there's no easy way to re-order in traktor ofc...
worth moving this discussion to the new thread probably - this "post fader fx" one has become quite derailed | Sulema Eshel
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
Hey y'all, I got this to work on one button.
I got to beatjump +2 and beat jump + 4 and get +6 as a result on one button too.
I can't believe I missed this. I knew there was something funky going on. I could have sworn that my post fader FX mode button was a "single push" button, no matter what the previous state was, but I somehow couldn't get it to work when I tried to re-map it. I'm betting that you can figure out how I did it so am not writing it here It's so cool when you discover this... don't want to spoil it for you.
PLEASE spoil it for me.. have just been messing around in a blank mapping (as my live one is too complex atm to start fiddling!).
Swapped about order... I can get the deck to maximise, but only a microsecond before changing to sample deck! Re-mapping/ordering results in nothing happening (as it is trying to change to advanced in sample mode). I am using modifiers to swap between track & sample deck (not using live deck). If I do just use "inc" without modifiers (so that it rotates from track>sample>live) then I can get it working. My head hurts now!
Ooh, Traktor MUST also always be running the modifier commands first.. otherwise commands that you have set up on a toggling modifier wouldn't run - if it ran the command before changing the modifier, then you'd get totally the wrong results. Just something else to consider!
Just going to use Deck Flavor on inc mode... that way as it passes through live input, it can use then to change to advanced. Means I free up a modifier AND get more functionality (in that I get Live deck!! ) | Dionne Bullock
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Yeah.. have been trying to get "Change Deck Flavor=Track Deck" & "Deck Size=Advanced" to work with one button press, but without success. If I come out of the sample decks the decks default to compact size (believe it's compact - the one between micro and normal size). Have to then press button again to get the decks to switch to advanced size
Hey y'all, I got this to work on one button.
I got to beatjump +2 and beat jump + 4 and get +6 as a result on one button too.
I can't believe I missed this. I knew there was something funky going on. I could have sworn that my post fader FX mode button was a "single push" button, no matter what the previous state was, but I somehow couldn't get it to work when I tried to re-map it. I'm betting that you can figure out how I did it so am not writing it here It's so cool when you discover this... don't want to spoil it for you.
I started a new thread over here: http://www.djranking
s.com/community
/sho...070#post388070
Please join me and let's get to the bottom of this!! | Dionne Bullock
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by JasonPaul
I didn't read the whole thread so I am not sure this answer has been given yet. When you use effects and you want to keep the effect with out the track in the mix the only way possible is to stop the track or pause it. I have tried numerous ways around this since I use to use a send/return with my old mixers and liked to fade the track out while having a echo from the efx500 slowly fade out over the next track.
Sorry. I kind of threw the thread off topic.
Here's the page with the info. Yes there is a way to get post fader effects.
http://www.djranking
s.com/community
/sho...t=39118&page=4
Check it out! | Dionne Bullock
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
the other thing i'd like to find out is just how/why/where traktor cares about 'off' messages and how they affect things. i've seen this related to a few things. where if u send say a midi velocity of 127 to do *something* but don't then send a zero velocity (which would normally be sent out when u released a button) and then send the same 127 out again it gets ignored, unless u wait long enough. i first saw this using the PC mode on my lpd8, just translating those PC messages into CC's. traktor wasn't always happy without the 0 velocity afterwards.
I believe that's pretty normal? Just like a CC that stays at a certain value does nothing - e.g., not moving the fader. There, it's probably not a "0" that's required but a change in velocity to trigger it again. My guess would be 126 will do just as well. | Dionne Bullock
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
What sucks for all of us but gives me hope that I am still onto something is that some actions seem to matter what order they occur in (even though they should not work in my "Traktor aims at instantaneousness theory"). Namely, set/store hotcue and beatjump. (I'm going to have to make sure of this after I post this once... it's getting way too long.....)
Holy... I don't understand what I mistook for the behavior I explained above, I believe I have moved yet another step closer to proving that the order isn't the issue unless the two actions contradict each other -- Hotcue + BeatJump and BeatJump + Hotcue result in the same... first goes to hotcue and then Jumps whatever beats specified.
I need to sort this out. All I ask for now is a consistent theory. | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
The 3ms delay might be the space needed in Traktor to believe of the two events as consecutive ones, not instantaneous ones... which ironically is what the string theory dude has been saying all along:eek: Man, I feel stupid now trying to prove something else and logically circling back to the start point...
to be fair i was saying that back in september, a long time before that blog article was written, when i first implemented my slicer in midimasher i just used a 10ms delay tho, didn't realise it could be as low as 3ms. the blog article also said 2ms i believe? which i don't find 100% reliable.
A) Effect panel mode single
B) Single FX select - delay
also when i posted earlier about traktor changing panel mode but not setting the effect i did have a delay in between them. i believe i even tried a 10ms delay but the fx select was still ignored, until i pressed the button again and it worked ok.
probably just down to traktor needing a certain amount of time to change the panel mode, since it's more work than most other commands i guess - i'm sure if i put in a really big delay it would work ofc.
the other thing i'd like to find out is just how/why/where traktor cares about 'off' messages and how they affect things. i've seen this related to a few things. where if u send say a midi velocity of 127 to do *something* but don't then send a zero velocity (which would normally be sent out when u released a button) and then send the same 127 out again it gets ignored, unless u wait long enough. i first saw this using the PC mode on my lpd8, just translating those PC messages into CC's. traktor wasn't always happy without the 0 velocity afterwards.
i'm sure NI won't ever spell out the intended behaviour of traktor down to these levels sadly anyway... | Dionne Bullock
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Just played around with the hotcue thing that I mentioned before. I set up a mapping to hotcue 3 (first) then to hotcue 4 (both from same button)... it ALWAYS went to HC4. I then swapped the commands (changed 'Set To Value' from 3 to 4 and 4 to 3), thus reversing commands. It then always went to hotcue 3. So if traktor has 2 competing commands, it seems to take the most recent one. Got to recheck my mappings now and hopefully see if i can fix my change deck flavor/change deck size thing...
Hey there. To be accurate, your example might not be demonstrative of how Traktor handles "competing commands" at all. (I said might) It could simply be that it first jumped to HC3, and instantly jumped to HC4 -- "exactly as you programmed it". Granted, it could be the case that it's discarding the first command and just doing the latter, but even so in this case Traktor "is deciding correctly" so bringing it up sort of weakens the point we are trying to make here. No offense.
The only strong evidence (I am not convinced it's hard proof yet) that Traktor is somehow fumbling with multiple commands is the double beatjump combo example.
Why am I not not convinced? Hear me out.
So far, we have seen some apparent consistency in Traktor to:
1)handle "older maps first" and work its way to "the newest map".
2)Some times it skips "older maps" and completes the "newest map"(the double beatjump example)
If this is consistently what's going on, it totally makes sense that if you map:
A) Single FX select - delay
B) Effect panel mode single
in this order, the first press will ignore A (because it can"t do it, it's in group mode) and do B. Once it's in Single mode, a second press will activate (A) and (B) -- just (B) won't matter because it's already in Single mode.
Well okay, so you decide to re-map it the other order.
A) Effect panel mode single
B) Single FX select - delay
Now, our expectation is that Traktor will do (A) and then (B) ... they seem doable as long as they are done in this order -- but no! Traktor changes the panel mode, and stops there.
Is this an unexpected bug? I believe not.
My current assumption is that Traktor, to the best of it's ability, tries to handle everything instantaneously.
In which case it turns out "the order is not important after all".:eek: (just an assumption)
You see, it's trying to do everything at once - so bad, that it checks up the panel mode before it changes to Single, and says, oh well, no can do...
This realization sort of shocked me, because seen in this light, even the "double beatjump" might be a result of just working as it should.
The assumption was that "beatjump" simply jumps however many beats it was told in whichever direction it was told. Maybe that's not how it works. Maybe it "refers to the current playhead location" and move the playhead to the new playhead location that you specified by XXX in the command "beatjump XXX". These two work similarly but are of different nature. The former can be added (a 4 beat forward jump + a 2 beat forward jump) but the latter can't. They are rather conflicting messages (one telling it to go to "4 beats forward from here" and the other "two beats forward from here") -- in which case, it literally can't do both, so it does the last in the line of commands.
The 3ms delay might be the space needed in Traktor to believe of the two events as consecutive ones, not instantaneous ones... which ironically is what the string theory dude has been saying all along:eek: Man, I feel stupid now trying to prove something else and logically circling back to the start point...
What sucks for all of us but gives me hope that I am still onto something is that some actions seem to matter what order they occur in (even though they should not work in my "Traktor aims at instantaneousness theory"). Namely, set/store hotcue and beatjump. (I'm going to have to make sure of this after I post this once... it's getting way too long.....) | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
BTW: Trying your midimasher app... I can't program for toffee, but I work in IT (well say I can't program, but my mappings are crazy). Looks at first glance though, as if I can deal with what's happening. I may well message you more as I fiddle with it.
cool feel free to ping me any questions or even better post them in the "Intermediary midi mapping" thread that is in my sig.
i only just started writing function documentation the other day, i'll be adding more over the week hopefully.
One thing though... google translate is kicking in and trying to translate from Albanian (see pic!) - looks English enough to me!
Thanks for your work on mm btw.
yep, i noticed that earlier... pretty odd. just added a meta tag to set the language and it still believes it's in albanian lol. i just let chrome translate it to english but it didn't change anything - so not sure what's triggering it. none of my servers are in albania anyway | Sulema Eshel
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
as suspected then... the biggest pain being that there's no easy way to reorder stuff in the controller manager, without deleting and re/adding. unless you can just change some params about like u did there.
Yeah, is going to mean that mapping stuff just got even more finicky (what with the small screen and all). Seeing that the tsi files are nothing more than a description of midi mappings, I'd wish NI would produce a program that edits them (so they wouldn't even have to change the traktor settings screen)... bring back the xml files of Traktor Pro early versions - god, things were simple back then!
BTW: Trying your midimasher app... I can't program for toffee, but I work in IT (well say I can't program, but my mappings are crazy). Looks at first glance though, as if I can deal with what's happening. I may well message you more as I fiddle with it. One thing though... google translate is kicking in and trying to translate from Albanian (see pic!) - looks English enough to me!
Thanks for your work on mm btw. | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Just played around with the hotcue thing that I mentioned before. I set up a mapping to hotcue 3 (first) then to hotcue 4 (both from same button)... it ALWAYS went to HC4. I then swapped the commands (changed 'Set To Value' from 3 to 4 and 4 to 3), thus reversing commands. It then always went to hotcue 3. So if traktor has 2 competing commands, it seems to take the most recent one. Got to recheck my mappings now and hopefully see if i can fix my change deck flavor/change deck size thing...
as suspected then... the biggest pain being that there's no easy way to reorder stuff in the controller manager, without deleting and re/adding. unless you can just change some params about like u did there. | Lora Ater
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by justanotherdj
for example, if I use reverb and and pull the channel fader down i'd still like to hear the reverb. I used to be able to do it on my old djm 600.
I believe traktor uses pre fader fx, so when I pull the fader down it cuts the fx along with the music, which is a bit annoying!
Anyone know if there is a way around this?
I'm using a mixtrack pro.
Thanks.
I didn't read the whole thread so I am not sure this answer has been given yet. When you use effects and you want to keep the effect with out the track in the mix the only way possible is to stop the track or pause it. I have tried numerous ways around this since I use to use a send/return with my old mixers and liked to fade the track out while having a echo from the efx500 slowly fade out over the next track. | Sulema Eshel
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
yep - the ones that didn't beat jump 6 only jumped by 4 beats - never 2 beats.
it all seems a bit odd to me. i can only presume due to some kind of error trapping/correction so if it finds the two beatjumps mapped to one control, or 2 different beatjumps coming in at the same time (tho still sequentially ofc) traktor tries to do what it believes u wanted... just a shame that it's wrong
i suppose this way might simplify some complex mappings within traktor - less modifiers etc needed if u can override an existing control? but since no one seems to quite know how/why it processes multiple items this behaviour doesn't make much sense to me.
Just played around with the hotcue thing that I mentioned before. I set up a mapping to hotcue 3 (first) then to hotcue 4 (both from same button)... it ALWAYS went to HC4. I then swapped the commands (changed 'Set To Value' from 3 to 4 and 4 to 3), thus reversing commands. It then always went to hotcue 3. So if traktor has 2 competing commands, it seems to take the most recent one. Got to recheck my mappings now and hopefully see if i can fix my change deck flavor/change deck size thing... | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 | i just wrapped up the faderfx and postfaderfx code i had written into one function so it's easy to add:
Code:
traktor.faderfx("djm101", "volume_fader_a", 0, ON, OFF, "a",
{ d = "mf", e = "1,0", unit = 3 },
{ d = "mf", e = "1,1", unit = 1 }
)
this handles the routing/use of the volume fader on my djm101 and creates 2 toggle buttons on my midifighter to control faderfx and postfaderfx modes.
if the faderfx toggle is set then the fader instead routes (in this example) to the wet/dry of effects unit 3
if the postfaderfx toggle is set then it loads and activates the gater in unit 1 and uses the volume fader to control that (unless the faderfx mode is also activated)
hit another issue of traktor not processing all commands in one hit tho... it seems to ignore all my effects unit params the first time but does at least change the mode to single. once the unit is in single mode then it works fine. odd, as even adding in some delays didn't fix this one... | Chasidy Heckenbach
29.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
One little complaint I have in Traktor is that some options don't appear in the pulldown, although they are "doable". I know they are doable because manufacture mappings sometime come set to those options, and once you change it, the option never shows up in the pull down. (Like, it came in interaction mode "hold", while it's not offered as on option in the pull down once you change it to "trigger")
i just hit a traktor bug/issue related to this i believe... my midimasher mapping for selecting the effect for unit 1 in single mode was just setting the effect unit to "empty" when i moved the fader, even tho units 2/3/4 worked fine. i tried restarting traktor a few times and even changed the type to "button" etc and couldn't see any difference between that and the other ones. no modifiers were used ofc.
i deleted it and re-added and now all is fine... really odd... | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
One thing I like about the cross fader version is that the curves are closer to each other than the volume version. The Gater passes through 100% audio at around "64" -- center of the cross fader.
In your method, if you preferred a more "volume fader-like curve" I guess you could translate the midi that goes to Gater from "0-127" to "127 - 64"?
yep - very easy to do i'll try that later. cheers - hadn't thought of that
i had been passing the value thru this function for faderfx to control the wet/dry when the faderfx mode is active, and the same kind of thing will work here for the "post fader fx" mode. as u can see it would be simple to tweak
Code:
function invert_value_cb(d, e, v, p)
v = 127 - v
return v
end
so right now i have the volume fader on my djm101 doing one of three things:
* controlling the volume of deck a
* controlling the wet/dry for faderfx mode
* controlling the gater level for post fader fx mode
i just need to add some code so this can easily be assigned to any fader, and then if faderfx mode is enabled then it takes priority, but will still leave the gater enabled (and at it's current level) if post fader fx mode is also enabled.
too many possibilities when u can embed whatever logic u like in code i guess
i believe i'll also wack a global "exit button" like the guy like thictool mentioned on his 4loop thread - which will reset all fx related settings and add a wash of reverb to bleed out... else if i want to get out of all fx quickly it might get confusing....
Anyway, I am really starting to envy your set up... Programming like that is much more intuitive than using the Traktor controller manager. But! I am going to push the limits of Traktor before I resort to that -- I feel the need... and in hopes that NI will fix the manager in a major update in the future.
i'm sure (?) that they will fix the controller manager one day - but doubt they'll ever allow embedded logic like i can do with midimasher. there again other apps do have some of this - even virtual dj. which while people here mostly like to slag of is far more advanced than traktor in this area.
One little complaint I have in Traktor is that some options don't appear in the pulldown, although they are "doable". I know they are doable because manufacture mappings sometime come set to those options, and once you change it, the option never shows up in the pull down. (Like, it came in interaction mode "hold", while it's not offered as on option in the pull down once you change it to "trigger")
yep - i've noticed that for a few things. odd? | Dionne Bullock
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
it gets the current volume of the fader and sets that to the drywet and vice versa when u leave post fader effects mode - so it doesnt matter so much at what point the fader is when u enter/leave this mode
Yeah, I achieved that in my cross fader edition too. It was doable because there's an option to disable the routing to crossfader -- I could keep the crossfader and dry/wet ganged at all times.
One thing I like about the cross fader version is that the curves are closer to each other than the volume version. The Gater passes through 100% audio at around "64" -- center of the cross fader.
In your method, if you preferred a more "volume fader-like curve" I guess you could translate the midi that goes to Gater from "0-127" to "127 - 64"?
Anyway, I am really starting to envy your set up... Programming like that is much more intuitive than using the Traktor controller manager. But! I am going to push the limits of Traktor before I resort to that -- I feel the need... and in hopes that NI will fix the manager in a major update in the future.
One little complaint I have in Traktor is that some options don't appear in the pulldown, although they are "doable". I know they are doable because manufacture mappings sometime come set to those options, and once you change it, the option never shows up in the pull down. (Like, it came in interaction mode "hold", while it's not offered as on option in the pull down once you change it to "trigger")
One thing I ask of Native Instruments is to not judge which features are unnecessary to the DJs. Stick to judging what options are illogical and/or can cause infinite loops and hanging, will you please.... | Chasidy Heckenbach
27.11.2011 | i've been playing with controlling traktor effects via midimasher this weekend and came up with a function to replicate your post fader fx setup (i believe)
Code:
function traktor.post_fader_fx(deck, unit, status)
if status == nil or status == ON then
local vol = get("traktor", "volume_fader_"..deck)
traktor.fx_setup{
unit = unit,
mode = "single",
fx = "Gater",
param1 = OFF,
button1 = ON,
button2 = OFF,
drywet = vol,
active = ON,
deck_a = ON
}
else
local vol = get("traktor", "dry_wet_single_unit_"..unit)
traktor.fx_setup{ unit = 1, deck_a = OFF }
end
end
then it can just be enabled with a line like this:
Code:
traktor.post_fader_fx("a", 2, ON)
and attached to a toggle button or something
routing the fader to either normal volume control or the dry/wet is already handled by existing code. seems to work quite well
it gets the current volume of the fader and sets that to the drywet and vice versa when u leave post fader effects mode - so it doesnt matter so much at what point the fader is when u enter/leave this mode
so when in post fader effect mode the effect is still supposed to diminish but not instantly like when prefader? i like the sound of it for delays and stuff anyway | Chasidy Heckenbach
28.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by escapemcp
Yeah.. have been trying to get "Change Deck Flavor=Track Deck" & "Deck Size=Advanced" to work with one button press, but without success. If I come out of the sample decks the decks default to compact size (believe it's compact - the one between micro and normal size). Have to then press button again to get the decks to switch to advanced size
ah... i guess that's another (unexpected) set of commands that traktor sees are linked to the same kind of area and so does it's best to do what u want. seems very odd to me tho that those two don't work on one button.
I can't avoid it, but I'm gonna need to learn either midimasher or Bomes to do this automagically with delays.
u can use midimasher just like bomes too, by passing thru all/most data unaffected and adding/changing just certain midi messages.
i have a couple of lines to enable fader effect like on the twitch which i believe is quite neat, well one to add the toggle button and one to switch the fader between volume and inverted-effect (max at the bottom) and i believe i've got the set of commands setup right to do the post fader fx stuff too using the method DJ MiCL described. the beauty of doing it in midimasher is that u can just wack anything like that in a function and then use whenever u like on any controller in the future with one tiny config file edit... | Sulema Eshel
27.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJ MiCL
Thanks for confirming!
while you CAN'T get Traktor to do both "FX panel to group" and "Set group FX 1 effect 1 to Delay" which seems more than a reasonable request. And since it will do the second half that it failed to do the first time if you press the button again (unlike the multiple beat jump problem), things just make less sense....
Anyway, great discussing this kind of stuff and will make sure to post update if I find anything good.
Yeah.. have been trying to get "Change Deck Flavor=Track Deck" & "Deck Size=Advanced" to work with one button press, but without success. If I come out of the sample decks the decks default to compact size (believe it's compact - the one between micro and normal size). Have to then press button again to get the decks to switch to advanced size
I can't avoid it, but I'm gonna need to learn either midimasher or Bomes to do this automagically with delays. | Sulema Eshel
27.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
i suppose this way might simplify some complex mappings within traktor - less modifiers etc needed if u can override an existing control? but since no one seems to quite know how/why it processes multiple items this behaviour doesn't make much sense to me.
Like it. But of course we need a system that works 100% of the time, so really need to get a handle on how Traktor orders commands. Anything that can save those valuable modifiers is a bonus. Never managed to test anything last evening
, but am going to spend today playing with this. A Sunday of Traktor followed by NFL. Life is good! | Dionne Bullock
26.11.2011 | Thanks for confirming!
Originally Posted by zestoi
it all seems a bit odd to me. i can only presume due to some kind of error trapping/correction so if it finds the two beatjumps mapped to one control, or 2 different beatjumps coming in at the same time (tho still sequentially ofc) traktor tries to do what it believes u wanted... just a shame that it's wrong
Hmmm.. If it were as you say, a "trapping correction", it surely is a crappy one. For instance, you can map both "filter reset" and "filter inc default" to the same button, which have different results depending on the chronological order you map them, but literally no one on earth needs because you can do the exact same by one direct-mode button, while you CAN'T get Traktor to do both "FX panel to group" and "Set group FX 1 effect 1 to Delay" which seems more than a reasonable request. And since it will do the second half that it failed to do the first time if you press the button again (unlike the multiple beat jump problem), things just make less sense....
Anyway, great discussing this kind of stuff and will make sure to post update if I find anything good. |
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