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Can Sync hold a DJ back?

Home :: General Discussion :: Can Sync hold a DJ back?Reply

Can Sync hold a DJ back? Posted on: 22.04.2013 by Addie Engbrecht I was originally going to post this in the other Sync thread that was started today, but out of respect for the OP, I thought it would be better if I just started my own thread. Hopefully the replies (if any) are just as friendly Does anyone believe that Sync can seriously handcuff DJ's into being stuck in the same tempo range with all their music, or maybe just not being versatile enough to mix in different tempos, at a moments notice, at will, constantly throughout the evening ? or handcuff them from learning any other transitions, and just relying heavily on blending? If so, do you believe Sync does more harm than good to those DJ's who are just starting out? I've kinda seen this trend in people who started w/ Sync and use Sync, and have been DJ'n anywhere from 3 years or less, so these questions are mostly directed at that crowd
Meaghan Machold 24.04.2013	Originally Posted by iambiggles Hahahah - This gem hidden in plain sight with all the other nonsense, is by far the most ridiculous thing you've put in you post. You cant honestly be telling me that you believe that all the "old school" Dj's only know how to beatmatch as they have no other skills? In fact the inverse is true. DJ's back in the day didn't have a plethora of cue points and FX to ruin..oops.. improve a track with. They made do with excellent record selection, control of of the flow and EQ and creating a vibe. NOT by mashing together multiple tracks/FX/Samples. There are far too many DJs about now who equate activity with quality. Not EVERY track needs to be layered with 3 others and being hidden behind a blur of FX. Sometimes (often) less is more. of course im being very general/broad and im lumping in really talented old school DJs. like i said, i know tons of vinyl DJs who have amazing skill and talent. but maybe now you realize how dumb it sounds when u generalize a whole group of DJs that use Sync as lazy and useless.
Qiana Castellucci 24.04.2013	Originally Posted by djmetalgear Beatmatching is very over rated. It
Meaghan Machold 24.04.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 I don't recall anyone saying that the use of sync was the problem, it's more that not knowing how to beatmatch puts you at a severe disadvantage. that, i can agree on. 100%. but cmon.. ur gonna sit here and say u dont recall people hating on the 'sync' button? thats like every other thread in this troll dungeon
Alphonso Deitchman 24.04.2013	I don't recall anyone saying that the use of sync was the problem, it's more that not knowing how to beatmatch puts you at a severe disadvantage.
Meaghan Machold 24.04.2013	sync.JPG by the way, heres a pic of A-Traks vine he posted. (an app like instagram if you dont know what it is). its obvious that he is using Sync in traktor. Hes an excellent DJ. hes prolly one of my favorites. hes a legend. he knows how to DJ. he uses vinyl. hes been djings since he was 15. but he uses sync sometimes. "OMG HES A FAKE! HES A FRAUD!!!"........... you guys are the worst.
nayit ruiz jaramillo 24.04.2013	Originally Posted by Patch You can tell a DJ apart from a normal person, because beatmatching becomes part of life: 1) Pull up behind a car with it's indicators on - you have to get your indicators in sync to the music. 2) Driving in the rain - sync your wipers to the music that's playing 3) Junction coming up - indicate on a downbeat. And so on........ Word.
Delila Vandommelen 24.04.2013	I don't know if I can - there are so many shortcomings in their work ethic I haven't succeeded yet. Thinking of giving up actually :/
Meaghan Machold 24.04.2013	Originally Posted by Patch What you've written is the definition of being LAZY. Taking a shortcut, when you KNOW you'll learn more from trying and failing, than you will by taking a short... no. thats called learning. who in ur right mind do you believe you are to say that there is only ONE way to DJ and ONE way to learn. Pilots dont just jump in an airplane and learn on the fly. NO OTHER profession forces you to jump in and learn everything all at once as you go. There are chapters/sections/courses to everything, and its pathetic that narrow-minded people will look down on a talented DJ just cause he has 4/5s of "being a DJ" down, except he will use Sync to keep his tracks together when needed. now if he refuses to learn, then he is lazy... but to call people out cause they use sync is fkin retarded. The FOUNDER of this site you are using is a HUGE supporter of sync. I've actually had the pleasure of talking to Ean Golden when he came to Drexel in Philly... so, as I said... you hates can keep praising beatmatching as the end all be all... meanwhile, tons of kids who are working harder and believeing outside of the box are passing you guys by and taking your gigs. (Note- before all you guys who beatmatch come out with your pitchforks... realize that I knew beatmatching is important... but its not what it used to be 10, or even 5 years ago. And I know how to beat match. it took me less than a week to figure it out. its not rocket science. get off your high horses.)
Brunilda Kora 24.04.2013	Very good post. You'll have to teach me how to get the point across without offending anyone!
Delila Vandommelen 24.04.2013	Two of my crew of four ONLY sync, vs my mate and I who played timecoded vinyl, and now mostly vinyl + the odd bit of usb stick in a cdj and sometimes tc vinyl. They've been saying they want to get into doing it manually but have never gotten around to doing it. They rely entirely on it, can't mix without loops and throw tracks out of phase all the time (snare on kick and the like), so for them the whole process that you go through when learning the old fashioned way has been skipped. This is what most DJs with a good handle on the traditional process will imply when turning their nose at sync jockeys - it's not all about just beatmatching. This makes for shitty mixes because we will often be forced to mix and match the four of us in limited timeslots, so my mate and I have to ride their traktor pitch faders otherwise it sounds like total arse, effectively holding all of us back technically (this irks me to no end). In our local scene, the "traditional" style is more and more a mark of credibility, so it's not just a technical setback there.
Brunilda Kora 24.04.2013	Originally Posted by YOU i say beginners should use sync, and learn how to EQ, phrase, and then slowly practice to Beatmatch. What you've written is the definition of being LAZY. Taking a shortcut, when you KNOW you'll learn more from trying and failing, than you will by taking a short...
Meaghan Machold 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by Patch Beatmatching is the hardest (and most rewarding) thing you will learn as a DJ. Your brain has to build new pathways, and you have to learn to listen to and distinguish between multiple simultaneous sound sources. Anyone choosing to do this instead of taking the shortcut (ie - learning to DJ with sync ON from the beginning) is NOT being lazy. You can tell a DJ apart from a normal person, because beatmatching becomes part of life: 1) Pull up behind a car with it's indicators on - you have to get your indicators in sync to the music. 2) Driving in the rain - sync your wipers to the music that's playing 3) Junction coming up - indicate on a downbeat. And so on........ you read what i said wrong.... someone who falls in the trap of "sync" is lazy. make sure u re-read what i wrote before posting.
Brunilda Kora 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by djmetalgear then what you are describing is a LAZY PERSON... Beatmatching is the hardest (and most rewarding) thing you will learn as a DJ. Your brain has to build new pathways, and you have to learn to listen to and distinguish between multiple simultaneous sound sources. Anyone choosing to do this instead of taking the shortcut (ie - learning to DJ with sync ON from the beginning) is NOT being lazy. You can tell a DJ apart from a normal person, because beatmatching becomes part of life: 1) Pull up behind a car with it's indicators on - you have to get your indicators in sync to the music. 2) Driving in the rain - sync your wipers to the music that's playing 3) Junction coming up - indicate on a downbeat. And so on........
Olin Easley 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by thepanache Let's discuss sync on CDJ's.... Pathetic in my opinion. Completely takes the art out of dj'ing.. Mixing is of course only a part of the job in hand.. With the main part being music selection.. But seriously.. Sync on CDJ's is such a cop out. But the thing that sync takes out of dj'ing across the board... is FUN. Regardless if it's laptop of CDJ. Cue track, press play, press sync, move fader up, twiddle with EQ's to look busy, lock in a pointless loop, trigger some out of key samples, move other fader down.. Rinse & repeat. NO SKILL REQUIRED, NO FUN TO BE HAD!.. There's no satisfaction that you've got those tracks perfectly in time and held them in place. The true art of DJ'ing is using the skills that you have meticulously practiced and honed.. So my answer would be yes, sync holds you back. You didn't give a reason why sync holds you back. You only said it makes you uncool.
Meaghan Machold 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by sarasin I dont agree with that. Beatmatching should be the first thing you learn. It is the fundamental skill of DJing. Yes, you can fade intro's and outro's etc, but will that get you a gig? Not so sure. Will you get any kind of kudo's from your fellow DJ's? Not so sure. I recon that when you beatmatch, you learn to listen to your cue....whilst listening to the monitor. This is almost like playing piano where each hand does something different. Without it, your foundation is just not right. Yes, you CAN do it the way you explained...but personally I feel that it is not the right path. It is really easy to fall into the Sync trap and not learn to beatmatch. You are losing out on the DJ experience imho. Yes, it will make you feel that you getting somewhere and egg you on...in your quest....but its SO easy to just rely on it and not move forward skills wise. then what you are describing is a LAZY PERSON... and a Sync function should not be blamed for poor work ethic. its as simple as that. Don't blame the machine or a function, blame the lazy person.
Syreeta Piela 23.04.2013	100% agree, well said
Lilliana Perris 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by djmetalgear no i wasn't saying that. i didnt say that. Viny DJs have some of the best flows and transitions... but this notion that YOU MUST beat match to be a REAL DJ is so silly. i say beginners should use sync, and learn how to EQ, phrase, and then slowly practice to Beatmatch. I dont agree with that. Beatmatching should be the first thing you learn. It is the fundamental skill of DJing. Yes, you can fade intro's and outro's etc, but will that get you a gig? Not so sure. Will you get any kind of kudo's from your fellow DJ's? Not so sure. I recon that when you beatmatch, you learn to listen to your cue....whilst listening to the monitor. This is almost like playing piano where each hand does something different. Without it, your foundation is just not right. Yes, you CAN do it the way you explained...but personally I feel that it is not the right path. It is really easy to fall into the Sync trap and not learn to beatmatch. You are losing out on the DJ experience imho. Yes, it will make you feel that you getting somewhere and egg you on...in your quest....but its SO easy to just rely on it and not move forward skills wise.
Meaghan Machold 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by thepanache So you're saying people who CAN beatmatch DON'T sound 'clean and enjoyable'? Beatmatching and phrasing are just as important as eachother.. It's about knowing your tracks and being able to beatmatch them. The thing is, beatmatching isn't an 'old skool' thing as you like to put it... It's still happening everywhere.. NOT just in people's bedrooms.. And it works in clubs.. And yes.. It sounds clean and enjoyable. I'd love to see these people who rely on the sync button tremble at the thought of not having it.. no i wasn't saying that. i didnt say that. Viny DJs have some of the best flows and transitions... but this notion that YOU MUST beat match to be a REAL DJ is so silly. i say beginners should use sync, and learn how to EQ, phrase, and then slowly practice to Beatmatch.
Syreeta Piela 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by djmetalgear this. beatmatching is nice.. but it isn't necessary. i learned it a good year After I started DJing. I used sync at first.. and I STILL use sync. I know how to beatmatch as a ‘just in case’… but I use a controller, so there never is a just in case moment for me. I just bring my controller, plug into the booth, and away I go. Beatmatching is very over rated. It’s a skill that old school DJs harp on because they didn’t learn any other skills. Just my 2 cents. (uh oh, I def opened the anger flood gates on this one). But… its okay… bed room DJs can keep beatmaching in their room. Id rather make my mixes sound clean and enjoyable and be working on clubs and bars. Phrasing is way more important than beatmatching IMHO. So you're saying people who CAN beatmatch DON'T sound 'clean and enjoyable'? Beatmatching and phrasing are just as important as eachother.. It's about knowing your tracks and being able to beatmatch them. The thing is, beatmatching isn't an 'old skool' thing as you like to put it... It's still happening everywhere.. NOT just in people's bedrooms.. And it works in clubs.. And yes.. It sounds clean and enjoyable. I'd love to see these people who rely on the sync button tremble at the thought of not having it..
Meaghan Machold 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by squidot i feel the exact opposite. i believe sync should definitely be relied on by beginners until they have the learned the basics of djing. throwing beatmatching on top of everything else is usually a frustrating endeavor...i know it was for me when i started before all this software came out. i had no choice though, and had to keep banging away until it all started to make sense. technology now allows you to learn a bit more incrementally, which seems better for most people. once you've got the phrasing, eq, and ability to pick proper tracks while keeping a good flow...that's when you should learn to beatmatch imo. this. beatmatching is nice.. but it isn't necessary. i learned it a good year After I started DJing. I used sync at first.. and I STILL use sync. I know how to beatmatch as a
Syreeta Piela 23.04.2013	Let's discuss sync on CDJ's.... Pathetic in my opinion. Completely takes the art out of dj'ing.. Mixing is of course only a part of the job in hand.. With the main part being music selection.. But seriously.. Sync on CDJ's is such a cop out. But the thing that sync takes out of dj'ing across the board... is FUN. Regardless if it's laptop of CDJ. Cue track, press play, press sync, move fader up, twiddle with EQ's to look busy, lock in a pointless loop, trigger some out of key samples, move other fader down.. Rinse & repeat. NO SKILL REQUIRED, NO FUN TO BE HAD!.. There's no satisfaction that you've got those tracks perfectly in time and held them in place. The true art of DJ'ing is using the skills that you have meticulously practiced and honed.. So my answer would be yes, sync holds you back.
Jorge Furber 23.04.2013	I was using it in HID mode, so the vibration was making Traktor believe that the pitch fader was moving, but it wasn't.
Augustine Mitzen 23.04.2013	unless the cdj was actually jumping, i can't see it moving the pitch fader tbh
Jorge Furber 23.04.2013	I first read your question and decided to only answer it after the party I hosted last Saturday. This "gig" was the first time I did a longer set than usual and also a tag team with one of my friend. Everything went pretty well during our set. We did use the sync here and there. Why? Because it was often easier to just hit sync to adjust the tempo (my CDJs were vibrating too much because of the subs that were right next to it) than to actually fix it every time the fader would move. Can we beatmatch by ear? Yes, my friend a lot better than myself to be honest. Why did we use the sync function? To save us time when the booth was vibrating a lot and not have to worry about re-adjusting the tempo all the time. Did this handcuffed us? I don't believe so, it made us save some precious time and because it was our first time playing together, we had a lot of other things to believe about. Can it handcuff DJs? Yes. If you don't learn how to beatmatch by ear, if you rely on it all the time, if you can't mix without a sync button. It can. It will. That's why everyone tells the new DJs to not use the sync button (oh how often have I heard that). But once you learned how to beatmatch, why not? It shouldn't be replacing learning any DJ skills but once you know them, why not use it once in a while?
Brunilda Kora 23.04.2013	Sync handcuffs you to the software that you're using. Imagine explaining to someone why you can't play for a while on their hardware set-up after you've just told him you are a "DJ"...
Joesph Kasian 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by manchild Does anyone believe that Sync can seriously handcuff DJ's into being stuck in the same tempo range with all their music, or maybe just not being versatile enough to mix in different tempos, at a moments notice, at will, constantly throughout the evening ? Explain how you mix a different tempo track into another tempo track, at a moments notice, at will....you can't just suddenly just up or down in speed. I do hear what you mean, but at the time why is there another topic about it - when people moved to CDJs, suddenly it told you the BPM on the readout what speed the track was going. In the newer models of the CDJ this became .00 accurate so you could mix by sight instead of hearing....it's just how the World evolves.
Dedra Kreinbring 23.04.2013	I agree in some respects with Johney, but then again I also agree with squidot. Sync (Tempo only) allowed me to actually give DJing a go without using a controller or headphones, and just messing around in Traktor. That was when I first fell in love with DJing, and it is now one of my biggest passions. If the learning curve had been steeper, I may have never given it a go due to lack of time. I played some gigs before I had ever heard of manual beatmatching. On the other hand, except for pre planned sets, I was useless, especially if my songs werent beatgridded, For the first few months. It kickstarted my learning initially, but then I got comfortable doing average blend mixes and my learning slowed. So i see it as a double edged sword.
Emelina Chillson 23.04.2013	Sync can be turned off as well as on. Within traktor the following decks follow the master. through intelligent looping and effects you can easily utilize sync to change tmepos or disable sync for cuts, drops, and scratching in intros, etc.
Augustine Mitzen 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by squidot i feel the exact opposite. i believe sync should definitely be relied on by beginners until they have the learned the basics of djing. throwing beatmatching on top of everything else is usually a frustrating endeavor...i know it was for me when i started before all this software came out. i had no choice though, and had to keep banging away until it all started to make sense. technology now allows you to learn a bit more incrementally, which seems better for most people. once you've got the phrasing, eq, and ability to pick proper tracks while keeping a good flow...that's when you should learn to beatmatch imo. i disagree, of all the things, i'd say beatmatching should be the first thing to learn along with phrasing (seriously, it baffles me how many people play tunes totally out of phrase) it's essential, the transitions themselves and selection skill come pretty much naturally. Knowing your tunes and feeling them is pretty much essential and i believe it's easier when you are forced to listen to them as opposed to a visual aid.
Alphonso Deitchman 23.04.2013	You can easily begin learning to beatmatch without doing any phrasing or EQ. It's a skill that takes practice moreso than other techniques, and starting with beatmatching is no less incremental than starting with any other skills.
Cole Maroto 23.04.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 Sync certainly should not be relied on by beginners until they have learned the basics of beatmatching manually. Beatsync can be quite restricting compared to Temposync, as a beginner may not realise when the phase is off if they have no beatmatching experience. i feel the exact opposite. i believe sync should definitely be relied on by beginners until they have the learned the basics of djing. throwing beatmatching on top of everything else is usually a frustrating endeavor...i know it was for me when i started before all this software came out. i had no choice though, and had to keep banging away until it all started to make sense. technology now allows you to learn a bit more incrementally, which seems better for most people. once you've got the phrasing, eq, and ability to pick proper tracks while keeping a good flow...that's when you should learn to beatmatch imo.
Alphonso Deitchman 22.04.2013	Sync certainly should not be relied on by beginners until they have learned the basics of beatmatching manually. Beatsync can be quite restricting compared to Temposync, as a beginner may not realise when the phase is off if they have no beatmatching experience.
Judi Sissel 22.04.2013	Originally Posted by sebastiannz I do this myself and it creates shitty sounding mixes. I believe that's what happens when you have too much time. But once you get over doing this...and realise it sounds crap, you'll start to use the time properly. Being more creative, choosing better tracks etc. Just takes time for people to adjust. +1... great mix BTW. The only thing that is going to limit a DJ, is the DJ(or what they allow them self to be limited by).
Ervin Calvery 22.04.2013	Traktor's BeatSync seems really limiting - it makes it tough to do double-ups and other kinds of trick mixing. Temposync is no so much a big deal to me. In the end, though, the sync button also turns sync off - it isn't limiting because it doesn't need to be used.
Peggy Gabrielson 22.04.2013	Originally Posted by DISaS73R Sync doesn't stop you from changing the tempo, so I wouldn't say that it's responsible for this. However, I've noticed that some people drop too many tunes too quickly because they've got nothing else to do and don't wanna seem like they aren't doing anything. I do this myself and it creates shitty sounding mixes. I believe that's what happens when you have too much time. But once you get over doing this...and realise it sounds crap, you'll start to use the time properly. Being more creative, choosing better tracks etc. Just takes time for people to adjust.
Nelida Ghouse 22.04.2013	Originally Posted by manchild Does anyone believe that Sync can seriously handcuff DJ's into being stuck in the same tempo range with all their music, or maybe just not being versatile enough to mix in different tempos, at a moments notice, at will, constantly throughout the evening ? or handcuff them from learning any other transitions, and just relying heavily on blending? If so, do you believe Sync does more harm than good to those DJ's who are just starting out? Surely it can hold DJs back. There are lots of things that hold some DJs back indirectly/unintentionally. Even things as positive as DJ schools and tutorials, as much as they help people get started quicker, can limit how they look at the artform as well. I believe both things are a cases of giving a man a fish vs. teaching a man how to fish. Some people are going to use the tools given to them as a stepping stone, and some aren't going to look any further. I'd say it definitely does a bit more harm for most beginners, but it's hard to quantify how much harm it really does. I don't believe it's something that will make or break a potentially great DJ, it's probably just people who would suck anyways who would be that held back from it, lol. I believe DJs who are gonna become good are gonna try to learn as much as they possibly can anyways and not just use sync as a crutch.
Malka Wickerham 22.04.2013	It can in a way be bad. If you can manually beatmatch then you will be able to use Technics or CDJs. Being able to use all formats and all types of gear will open you up to more venues and connections. Depending on what circles you roll in it can also get you respect. Also, your computer will definitely crash at some point. If your playing a club that has CDJs(which most do) and your computer crashes then you can just pop in a CD.
Renate Mayeur 22.04.2013	Originally Posted by manchild Does anyone believe that Sync can seriously handcuff DJ's I believe it can. But only if you let it handcuff your creativity. If I mix in sync it gives me more time to do other stuff such as looping, cue-point jumping, and adding effects when mixing one song into an other or playing 2 songs together for a longer time. But I do like to beatmix as well, it depends on the situation. For me it doesn't handcuff me.
Olin Easley 22.04.2013	Sync doesn't stop you from changing the tempo, so I wouldn't say that it's responsible for this. However, I've noticed that some people drop too many tunes too quickly because they've got nothing else to do and don't wanna seem like they aren't doing anything.

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