NI Kontrol S4 MK2

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NI Kontrol S4 MK2
Posted on: 06.08.2013 by Glinda Stagner
So... With the Kontrol X1 mk2 going on sale today, anyone else believeing that it may be time for the introduction of an s4 mk2?

S4's have dropped in price recently (a common sign of NI bringing out a new product)

The s4 has been around for a good few years, time for a new one?

With the introduction of new features such as the touch strip, now found on the new NI controllers, is the s4 missing out?

What are your thoughts?
Alphonso Deitchman
17.09.2013		The sound cards of the Z1, Z2, A6, and A10 are all class compliant which allows them to be used as sound cards for TDJ. I assume the same will apply to the S4 and S2 Mk2 sound cards but I'm not sure about the MIDI section.
Logan Lassey
17.09.2013		Oh I see what you mean.
I doubt they are class compliant then (I don't believe any NI hardware is, is it?).
Would be great if they were though!
nayit ruiz jaramillo
17.09.2013
Originally Posted by Paco Loco
So are you saying that the S4 Mk2 is class compliant?
Both the S4MK2 and the S2MK2 work with Traktor DJ. They have Apples "Made For iOS" status. I don't know if this means they are class compliant.

I can try both controllers with Midi Monitor to see.
Logan Lassey
17.09.2013
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
NO they could not. The device is not "class compliant". It isn't just the soundcard that has to be class compliant, the controller itself has to be class compliant and the S4 is not.
So are you saying that the S4 Mk2 is class compliant?
nayit ruiz jaramillo
17.09.2013
Originally Posted by dabkhazi
I believe, NI could come up simple solution for S4 Mk1. For example, make support for managing Traktor DJ only (without sound control) and then we can pass sound from ipad phones output into S4 input.
NO they could not. The device is not "class compliant". It isn't just the soundcard that has to be class compliant, the controller itself has to be class compliant and the S4 is not.

Read: http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2012/10...your-ipad/#usb
Vito Chesnut
17.09.2013
Originally Posted by Cook
anyone noticed, parallel waveforms on Trakor DJ? you all got what you asked for

Good point, with a controller input and not using sync, basically you have serato/itch/traktor hybrid. My only problems with that is I need access to way more music than an iPad will hold, and I have and iPad 1 which no longer receives updates on the OS. Maybe a smaller all in one will happen, but if you can fit your controller and laptop in one flight case, pre-wired and ready to plug and play... well it would be tough for an all in one to compete with the flexibility of a proper laptop, IMO.
Dione Haimes
17.09.2013		anyone noticed, parallel waveforms on Trakor DJ? you all got what you asked for
Reena Buckel
17.09.2013
Originally Posted by dabkhazi
I believe, NI could come up simple solution for S4 Mk1. For example, make support for managing Traktor DJ only (without sound control) and then we can pass sound from ipad phones output into S4 input.
Isidro Vanegdom
17.09.2013		I believe, NI could come up simple solution for S4 Mk1. For example, make support for managing Traktor DJ only (without sound control) and then we can pass sound from ipad phones output into S4 input.
Logan Lassey
17.09.2013		That S2 video walkthough is very good.
Looks like S2 and iPad combination is really good, and it's certainly leagues ahead of the current version of Traktor DJ.
I believe the new S2 will be tempting for a lot of people, but for me it still feels a bit too expensive compared to other manufacturers stuff. Should be more like
Delena Katherman
16.09.2013
Originally Posted by djproben
The idea of ditching a clunky laptop is not gimmicky, that is great. The idea of replacing a clunky laptop with an even clunkier (though at least lighter) ipad is what's gimmicky.
So you believe the Traktor software should be completely built into the controller, with no need for a laptop? I can't see NI going that route any time soon, especially considering it looks like they are going more and more toward a minimalist (modular/portable) approach than all-in-one.
Brinda Toalston
16.09.2013
Originally Posted by djproben
The idea of ditching a clunky laptop is not gimmicky, that is great. The idea of replacing a clunky laptop with an even clunkier (though at least lighter) ipad is what's gimmicky.
How is the ipad clunky? I was going to go with S2 and Ipad mini.
Would that not be lighter and slightly more portable?
Many Farnsley
16.09.2013		Just seen this fairly thorough walkthrough of how the s2 works with the new "improved" traktor dj..from the bpm show.

Danae Dumler
16.09.2013
Originally Posted by theconsole
However, you believe the idea of ditching a clunky laptop is gimmicky? I don't.
The idea of ditching a clunky laptop is not gimmicky, that is great. The idea of replacing a clunky laptop with an even clunkier (though at least lighter) ipad is what's gimmicky.
Rochel Gleese
16.09.2013		I also believe NI have missed the mark on this one, I wish they stuck with the modular route, why not have a new way for all of the controllers to stick to one another, like a slide and click.

Platter controllers S1
Touch Strip Controller X1
Remix Decks F1
Mixers Z1, Z2 & Z4
Rhonda Auriemma
16.09.2013		The refreshment of the S2/S4 is actually a step towards modularization. Now you can not only switch controllers, but also the device Traktor runs on. At the moment, I guess it would be too expensive to integrate software and hardware into one device, and NI might even not have the knowledge yet. Science doesn't work that way and companies need knowledge and experience.
It's a step in the right way (maybe more important than we may conceive right now), but from a business perspective, they should have done more to differ the new versions (they will definitely have some cool software features in petto that are just waiting to be released when the market's ready).
It's interesting though to see the reactions, since NI didn't do anything bad, but nonetheless a little shitstorm is sweeping across them. They know their numbers of sales, so be sure that NI knows what they are doing (and if not, the'yre at least learning).
Vito Chesnut
16.09.2013
Originally Posted by jdownesbaird
All of these awesome improvements you mention no doubt would have raised the price.

For better or worse, NI have apparently decided not to go head to head with other competitors' (more expensive) flagship controllers. As much as people want it to be, the S4 is not going to be marketed directly at experienced, pro-level DJs who demand solid build quality and cutting edge features.

NI could always introduce a brand new controller to fill that void, but the S4 is still marketed more toward entry level DJs (not that it can't be used on a pro level; it does what it does very well).

Or, NI could continue to focus on modular setups, and get out of the all-in-one business altogether at some point. I have a modular setup with DVS and external mixer, so I love NI's focus on modularity at the moment. But, I can also understand that others would love to see the potential of a badass NI controller fully realized.

What I don't understand is why people who were loving Traktor and their original S4 are suddenly believeing about switching to Serato, as if features were just taken away from them. Traktor is still the same great program, and if you prefer it, why would you switch just because you are disappointed in their newest controller? If your current setup isn't working well, change it. There are other options. I have a hard time believing that everyone was just barely getting by with the old S4, hanging on day by day until their dream controller was released. That seems a little ridiculous.
I agree totally, and as someone who uses both Serato DJ and Traktor, depending on mood, and need, I can tell you first hand that Traktor in it's current version, works better and surprisingly is less of a resource hog than Serato DJ in it's current version. One more great reason I prefer the more open platform of the Vestax line, easier to use with either one via mapping.
Brinda Toalston
16.09.2013
Originally Posted by Frank112916
I believe the underwhelming response here is due to the fact that NI didn't come out with a controller that fixed all the problems with the old one or incorporated best-in-class features from other all-in-one solutions (better Vue Meters, gain knobs - not rotary encoders, touch strips, jog LED's etc...) it's not not a radical redesign of the traditional DJ workflow but it's also not the best DJ controller out there. They didn't refine the product, they just added a new feature. They put out a product no one was asking for - one compatible with iOS. The iOS app IS NOT INNOVATIVE. It's gimmicky, it's already been done, and doesn't add to the experience of existing users.

You know what would have been great? A COMPANION APP that works seamlessly and natively with Traktor. Pio has it right with their Rekordbox software and serato with the Remote App. A companion application that enhances the user experience and allows for a more intuitive experience. They leveraged existing technology to create a product which fits seamlessly into the workflow of a DJ. I would love to select tracks from my iphone, or enable FX/Filter using an x-y pad. Hell, just being able to remove the library (hide it away on the computer screen) - and just completely rely on my phone for searching an organizing tracks would be great. Or hey - maybe I want to grid a song on the fly, if I could just pull it up on my phone, grid it, and sync that metadata with traktor instantaneously that'd be great.

With the way things are going with NI and Traktor, I may end up jumping ship to Serato sooner rather than later, even if I do hate the wave forms.
So, yes they could've improved the vu meters definitely. Better gain yes.
However, you believe the idea of ditching a clunky laptop is gimmicky? I don't.
Jetta Drenzek
16.09.2013		I love my S4 more than any musical gear in the world. It'll have to be one hell of a controller to make me change!
Delena Katherman
16.09.2013		All of these awesome improvements you mention no doubt would have raised the price.

For better or worse, NI have apparently decided not to go head to head with other competitors' (more expensive) flagship controllers. As much as people want it to be, the S4 is not going to be marketed directly at experienced, pro-level DJs who demand solid build quality and cutting edge features.

NI could always introduce a brand new controller to fill that void, but the S4 is still marketed more toward entry level DJs (not that it can't be used on a pro level; it does what it does very well).

Or, NI could continue to focus on modular setups, and get out of the all-in-one business altogether at some point. I have a modular setup with DVS and external mixer, so I love NI's focus on modularity at the moment. But, I can also understand that others would love to see the potential of a badass NI controller fully realized.

What I don't understand is why people who were loving Traktor and their original S4 are suddenly believeing about switching to Serato, as if features were just taken away from them. Traktor is still the same great program, and if you prefer it, why would you switch just because you are disappointed in their newest controller? If your current setup isn't working well, change it. There are other options. I have a hard time believing that everyone was just barely getting by with the old S4, hanging on day by day until their dream controller was released. That seems a little ridiculous.
Dino Hapgood
16.09.2013		I believe the underwhelming response here is due to the fact that NI didn't come out with a controller that fixed all the problems with the old one or incorporated best-in-class features from other all-in-one solutions (better Vue Meters, gain knobs - not rotary encoders, touch strips, jog LED's etc...) it's not not a radical redesign of the traditional DJ workflow but it's also not the best DJ controller out there. They didn't refine the product, they just added a new feature. They put out a product no one was asking for - one compatible with iOS. The iOS app IS NOT INNOVATIVE. It's gimmicky, it's already been done, and doesn't add to the experience of existing users.

You know what would have been great? A COMPANION APP that works seamlessly and natively with Traktor. Pio has it right with their Rekordbox software and serato with the Remote App. A companion application that enhances the user experience and allows for a more intuitive experience. They leveraged existing technology to create a product which fits seamlessly into the workflow of a DJ. I would love to select tracks from my iphone, or enable FX/Filter using an x-y pad. Hell, just being able to remove the library (hide it away on the computer screen) - and just completely rely on my phone for searching an organizing tracks would be great. Or hey - maybe I want to grid a song on the fly, if I could just pull it up on my phone, grid it, and sync that metadata with traktor instantaneously that'd be great.

With the way things are going with NI and Traktor, I may end up jumping ship to Serato sooner rather than later, even if I do hate the wave forms.
Brinda Toalston
16.09.2013
Originally Posted by kooper1980
you know what in my opinion the S2 now looks like a cheap imitation hercules. I am one of very few that actually thought the S4 and S2 we decent hardware and yet the RGB pads on this make it look cheap!!!
Holy cow, funny I was just believeing that when I first saw the photos " it looked like the Hercules factory made it"
Lo and behold here is someone with the exact same thought . TY, now I will go modular.
nayit ruiz jaramillo
16.09.2013
Originally Posted by easyrider
sorry but use translate site
it can not be that hard to make something that we can I use ipad with our s4 or am I wrong
Ean, has in the past made ​​such beautiful things for traktor stuff
Yes you are are wrong.

The S4MK1 is NOT class compliant so it will not work with the iPad. This is not something that can be changed. It is not possible to change this on the S4MK1... It is IMPOSSIBLE.

Traktor DJ cannot be controlled with just any midi device. It can only be controlled be devices that NI allow and these are only NI controllers.

Traktor DJ is not like DJ Player that allows recognises any midi device.

Ean, or anybody else cannot make the S4MK1 work with Traktor DJ for another very very important reason which is this:
The S4MK2 and S2MK2 are devices that are 'Approved "Made For iOS" devices. This an approved certification that Apple gives to devices. The S4MK1 is not a "Made For iOS" device.

NI chose to go down the route of "Made For iOS" so that they complied with Apples conditions for certified devices.
Reena Buckel
16.09.2013
can you repeat this in english?!
sorry but use translate site
it can not be that hard to make something that we can I use ipad with our s4 or am I wrong
Ean, has in the past made ​​such beautiful things for traktor stuff
Kristofer Krauel
15.09.2013		you know what in my opinion the S2 now looks like a cheap imitation hercules. I am one of very few that actually thought the S4 and S2 we decent hardware and yet the RGB pads on this make it look cheap!!!
Kristofer Krauel
15.09.2013
Originally Posted by easyrider
Yes that's but they can find solutions/external with separate box
where is Ean with its innovations so if in early
in the time of vci 100
can you repeat this in english?!
Kellie Myrum
15.09.2013		Phil at DDJT gives his first impressions on the new kontrol S2.

Reena Buckel
15.09.2013
It's physically impossible to add this function to the old S4, even if NI wanted to, because of the audio interface.
Yes that's but they can find solutions/external with separate box
where is Ean with its innovations so if in early
in the time of vci 100
Vito Chesnut
14.09.2013
Originally Posted by enrico
build is quite good i give you that, but the feel of the pad buttons is not the same, the soundcard is 48khz max, and the protocol is not HID, not NHL, it's midi.

if we had the build quality of vestax and the brains and concepts of native instruments partnering, we'd have the killer controller.
While that may be true, the midi does a pretty good job with scratching and jog fx. I agree that it could be better, but I believe that for my needs, mainly doing weddings and webcasts, 48khz is just fine. I mean, there is a reason the Ean Golden editions are all Vestax.
Delena Katherman
14.09.2013
Originally Posted by b1sh0p
It's only a firmware update that allows the MK2 to control TDJ on iOS? I wonder if there will be a hack.
It's physically impossible to add this function to the old S4, even if NI wanted to, because of the audio interface.
Sonja Roybal
14.09.2013		It's only a firmware update that allows the MK2 to control TDJ on iOS? I wonder if there will be a hack.
Bulah Pizzolo
14.09.2013
Originally Posted by kooper1980
Dont hold your breath. NI are still a software company who develop hardware purely to run their software. Integrating Traktor into a piece of Hardware makes no sense.... But hey, only time will tell.
Right, NI is a software company first .. however, if they would introduce a new device with integrated Traktor software which fits to the market, why do you believe they should leave money on the table? Why does NI came up with the S4/2 anyway than? And again, built-in systems is the future. They can't simply stay with Traktor and their MIDI controller family only.
To me: Rekordbox with an AERO is great. Traktor with a built-in system would be perfect!
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
14.09.2013		the S4Mk2 only uses 2 channels on ipad though, so I'd say my statement is true. If you want four deck control on a laptop it's as easy as adding 1 modifier.
Dione Haimes
14.09.2013
Originally Posted by synthet1c
reloop beats native...

[*video=youtube;gS3GdPTX8Bw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gS3GdPTX8Bw#t=68[/video]
Only on the two channel side though
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
14.09.2013		reloop beats native...

Samuel Stamaria
14.09.2013		Major disappointment, kind of even super boring
Kristofer Krauel
13.09.2013
Originally Posted by Timbo21
I could understand this if NI were updating every year, but the Mk1 has been around for at least 3 years. Therefore, you expect something a bit special.
This assumes that NI are interested in keeping on the all-in-one route.

Also theyve release 4 other pieces of Traktor hardware in the (almost) 3 years since the release of the S4 so its not like we havent had anything new to look at.

EDIT: Actually i believe its 5 (S2, F1, Z2, X1mk2 and Z1).
Kristofer Krauel
13.09.2013
Originally Posted by sw84244
Believe me, NI will show a brand new device shortly. The market is very fast and the future will be with built-in system w/o using a laptop anymore. Pioneer starts already with the AERO or the all in one R1 system. NI has to follow the market needs. The MK2 is just an upgrade with no big deals. Just looking to the new two channel Pioneer SR controller for Serato DJ, one major advantage on the S4 'mobility' has gone as well. To me, Pioneer is way ahead with their stand alone 'rekordbox' devices. Therefore, I am pretty sure we will get big news from NI quite soon.
Dont hold your breath. NI are still a software company who develop hardware purely to run their software. Integrating Traktor into a piece of Hardware makes no sense.... But hey, only time will tell.
Edwardo Rothenberger
13.09.2013
Originally Posted by blueprint
i dunno about everyone's bitching but i believe its a pretty typical upgrade. I don't own a S4 but the ipad support alone is enough to justify the upgrade.. use the laptop for studio mixes at home and use the ipad for gigs that only require a few hours or less in one set.
I could understand this if NI were updating every year, but the Mk1 has been around for at least 3 years. Therefore, you expect something a bit special.
Delena Katherman
13.09.2013
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
Just for clarity,


It is not possible to update the firmware so that they are class compliant because they do not have XMOS micro-processors. Only XMOS audio cards can be made class compliant.
Good info.

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