So who's got an F1 and how are you finding it ?

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So who's got an F1 and how are you finding it ?
Posted on: 07.06.2012 by Cira Ditz
I'm broke this month so my hopes of getting an F1 at launch time had to take a backseat.

Then there's been the whole huge drama of 2.5, but to be honest I'm rather liking 2.5 on my Mac with my S4 and so still hoping to get an F1 at some point next month.

Just wondering if anyone's got an F1 already and what you're thoughts are on it ?
Pansy Shiveley
13.06.2012
Originally Posted by frequencym
I believe the workflow would work better if you could have looped samples stop playing (but respect the quantize size) when you trigger the pad a second time, instead of restarting the sample (which is what I'd want for one shots).
Yeah, spot on! And like this, the current 'push-to-restart' behaviour could still easily be replicated by pressing twice, instead of just once as is the case now. Take note, NI!
Allan Neubert
13.06.2012
Originally Posted by stereorauschen
I use a silence sample from Shiftees Remix Deck.
You can also use an empty cell, which is what I've tried. "Playing" an empty cell stops the slot from playing, but stops it according to your quantize value (just like your silent sample). I believe the workflow would work better if you could have looped samples stop playing (but respect the quantize size) when you trigger the pad a second time, instead of restarting the sample (which is what I'd want for one shots).
Rey Holubar
13.06.2012		Ok, I feel like I am in the twilight zone here. Just fired up Traktor and the F1 again and strange things happening.

The Mix Decks do start, when you press on a cell. So issue 2 above isn't an issue now. I could swear it wasn't doing that before.

My little i3 didn't even go into the red with all decks playing. This is really strange, as my computer was going into the red permanently the other times I've played with Traktor 2.5. I could even drop the latency settings down to under 10ms with no glitching. Something that wasn't possible before. WTF!

Only one issue with a delay in some samples starting and all music stopping for about a second and I believe that has to do with the hard drive going into sleep mode. I'll have to check into that, but for sure I can here the drive speed up (because it is silent all of the sudden), then the sample and all other sound starts back up. If I can fix this issue, then I don't believe I can complain too much. Just points 1 and 3 are issues, whereas 1 is the biggest PITA for me. And of course the beat marker issue is a PITA too. But that is going to be fixed in the next version of Traktor.

I wish I had more time to practice now.

scamo
Suzy Carvill
13.06.2012		Does anyone have a suggestion for a flight case that would hold an S4/s2 and 1-2 F1's? I'd like to show up all set up and play.
Rey Holubar
13.06.2012		yep, although NI put a lot of thought into the F1, there are still some oversights that need improving.

1. Not being able to start a one-shot, when the slot is in punch mode. One shots should just ignore punch mode.
2. Not being able to start a Mix Deck from the F1. Why not automatically start the deck, when one of the cell buttons is pressed?
3. No quantized stopping or muting a slot.

scamo
Rey Holubar
12.06.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
The F1 pads click and are not velocity sensitive. The Maschine pads do not click and are velocity sensitive.
Also, the buttons on both have the same rubberized feel, which is really nice.

scamo
Mirta Heidenrich
12.06.2012
Originally Posted by frequencym
... When taking a track and cutting it into loops to do a live remix, instead of having sounds you want to overlay you end up with a bunch of loops where you only want one loop to play at a time. I still haven't come up with a workflow I like for this, partially because of the (idiotic IMO) decision to make the stop buttons be mute but not stop. The problem is that stop would stop the sample based on your quantize size but mute always mutes immediately. So I've gone back and forth between using pages and putting all the samples in one slot vs. putting samples in multiple slots across a page but leaving on sample empty to use as a "stop". Neither works as well in practice as I like, too many miscues when playing the remix set on the F1. Although this will certainly improve with practice once I get some muscle memory. ...
I use a silence sample from Shiftees Remix Deck. So the workflow is organised like this (example):

d=drum
b=bass
m=melody/perc
o=one shot
s=silence

1 2 3 4
d b m o
d s s o
d b s o
s b p o

1-3 are in Punch Mode and I start all samples at the same time. To start up the track I mute 2 and 3. Then they get mixed in and later I change to next column. The drum sample has a bass in it (because its cut from a track) and i use the silence in the bass row (2) for having just 1 bass sound. And that way you can build up complete tracks. I have the typical sounds from the original (sample with bass and beat as a loop from track) and the beat from the original (loop cut from the beginning of the track) and i put perc/bass/melody to it. The workflow works fine for me. But its not club proven yet - I will try next week.
Leeanna Ayla
12.06.2012
Originally Posted by DirtyNerd
I agree and would add that I really like the slot-level filters as well.



I second that! having to click on-screen or use a second controller to do something on a deck that already has a dedicated controller (i.e., my F1) is just ridiculuous.
Wow, that is a little strange. I even had to check the manual and it's right there on page 33 telling you to click play in Traktor or use your S2, S4 or X1. It also says stop the time code record to stop playback so that might be useful for some.
Leota Dolney
12.06.2012
Originally Posted by frequencym
I find the individual channel level faders very useful and would be hesitant to use a controller that didn't have them, if/when remix decks get opened up to MIDI.
I agree and would add that I really like the slot-level filters as well.

Originally Posted by frequencym
The lack of a play/stop button on the F1 is a huge oversight, it means you're either forced to have another controller for that button or you have to click it on-screen. I use vinyl timecode so I'm stuck with the latter. I get the impression a lot of the design was based on using it /w a S4. The F1 has master/sync buttons but no play/stop, this seems very odd to me. I lock playing decks so this ends up being super-annoying.
I second that! having to click on-screen or use a second controller to do something on a deck that already has a dedicated controller (i.e., my F1) is just ridiculuous.
Allan Neubert
13.06.2012		I've had the F1 for a couple of weeks. Some impressions from its use so far.

I've built 4 remix sets so far, building even simple remix sets is a huge time sink. I don't use the F1 to build the set (all my prep work is done on a separate computer) but if anything I believe the F1 would make the prep process slower. When working with audio samples the workflow you see in all the video works OK; I put drum loops in slot 1, basslines in slot 2, any other loop overlays I want in slot 3, and one shots in slot 4 and this all works reasonably well. When taking a track and cutting it into loops to do a live remix, instead of having sounds you want to overlay you end up with a bunch of loops where you only want one loop to play at a time. I still haven't come up with a workflow I like for this, partially because of the (idiotic IMO) decision to make the stop buttons be mute but not stop. The problem is that stop would stop the sample based on your quantize size but mute always mutes immediately. So I've gone back and forth between using pages and putting all the samples in one slot vs. putting samples in multiple slots across a page but leaving on sample empty to use as a "stop". Neither works as well in practice as I like, too many miscues when playing the remix set on the F1. Although this will certainly improve with practice once I get some muscle memory.

Using the F1 itself works fine, except that with a lot of samples the coordination required to hit all the buttons can be a bit much, again practice to get some muscle memory will be important here. This is especially true if you try to change things like keylock or FX on/off on the fly (where you need to start using the shift key + pads). 16 colors seems more like a gimmick than anything, color is useful but I often end up using just 3-6 colors not 16; and some of the colors are so close together anyway it would be hard to tell them apart while being focused on all the button mashing + FX knob twiddling, etc. What bank the sample is in tells me just as much as the color does really. The controller has a good feel, I like the fact that the buttons click; I've banged on it and it seems to take the light abuse fine.

I find the individual channel level faders very useful and would be hesitant to use a controller that didn't have them, if/when remix decks get opened up to MIDI.

The lack of a play/stop button on the F1 is a huge oversight, it means you're either forced to have another controller for that button or you have to click it on-screen. I use vinyl timecode so I'm stuck with the latter. I get the impression a lot of the design was based on using it /w a S4. The F1 has master/sync buttons but no play/stop, this seems very odd to me. I lock playing decks so this ends up being super-annoying.
Leeanna Ayla
12.06.2012		The F1 pads click and are not velocity sensitive. The Maschine pads do not click and are velocity sensitive.
Mariah Hegemann
12.06.2012		Can anybody who's used a Maschine compare the pads on the F1?
Rey Holubar
12.06.2012		I got mine yesterday and played with it to get some first impressions. Took about 30 minutes, then had to stop. (for those of you saying, why don't you work on your FX jogs mapping!)

The good.

Nice feel. I am not worried about the stiff faders. They will loosen up with time. My S4 was the same way and now the faders are silky smooth.

Fantastic integration. NI really put in some good thought into the F1. First thing I tried was the Vegas mode. Niiiiice!

Functionality. Goes with integration, but this little controller is jam packed with functionality and it is all usable and smartly designed. I still say, someone wanting to control more than one Mix Deck will want another F1 to have the smoothest workflow between the two decks. But switching decks is relatively easy and can be done within 2 beats of a house track.

The bad.

It needs a little stand or something underneath it, to get it to the height of the S4 control surface. Would have been cool, if it had been a bit thicker or had some feet you could just swing out like a computer keyboard has.

If you are in punch mode, you can't play one-shots. Um, why not? Traktor should just ignore the punch mode, if the sample is a one-shot. I thought this was very annoying.

Not really a problem with the F1, but I agree with the RAM and CPU comment. My little i3 with 3GB (yeah, 32 bit Windows, don't ask why) is puking with two Mix Decks running. I've gotten the settings to a place where there is no more glitching, when changing between cells, but still, every now and then, when I play a cell for the first time, Traktor hangs just a small part of second, enough to kill the quality of the introduction of the sample into the mix. It's like a real "aw, WTF!" experience. Not good. (me wanting an MBP more and more)

The ugly (but could be beautiful)

There will definitely need to be time taken to

a) put your own Mix Decks together/ prepare them
b) learn to use Mix Decks effectively in a DJ performance situation

If you do learn how to use the Mix Decks proficiently and can "chop" up your tracks to make them much more individual, then I can imagine the F1 and the Mix Decks will give some people a real advantage and more novelty to their performance (novelty = hey I remember this guy, because he could play slick mash-ups on the fly). If you don't care for this, then you don't need an F1. This is a tool or instrument and with any tool or instrument you must practice, practice, practice to become proficient at it. However, even with no real practice, you can get some pretty interesting stuff going with the F1 and the Mix Decks. It is definitely fun.

Final conclusion: A professional piece of kit. The price point is disputable, but because it can release a ton of creativity and it works well and it is fun, I'll give in and say, "It is worth the price!". Good work NI.

Now to go play with my new MF3d too.

scamo

11.06.2012		still trying to figure out how to work it into my sets.

almost seems like too much going on at the same time.

plus it's a bit of work to find out what goes good together, and not turning a set into a girltalk clusterfuck.

makes me want to go back to just mixing 2 tracks at a time.

on paper it sounds like a great idea. In real life, meh.
Mirta Heidenrich
12.06.2012		I got my F1 one week ago. My impressions:
- well build
- good feeling using the pads
- intuitive (after some practise) use -> using all functions without keyboard
- faders could slide easier

I took some of my favourite tracks and cut them in loops using traktor. After that I took free samples from the web and mixed up my new "own" favourite track. Its a lot of fun to do that. But - it takes a lot of time.
Using it with control vinyls is even better.
Important: Fast CPU und big RAM necessary!
Cira Ditz
11.06.2012		Well it's half way through the month nearly, wish pay day would hurry up more tho.

I've been checking out a few youtubes of people putting sets together and tbh I'm not sure 100% if the sample's will fit what I do (which I why was also asking about the other mode which heard works a bit more like an x1 as I believe I could always use that to trigger fx if it turns out I'm not so remix decks orientated).

I do tend to forget about them on my s4 when I'm working so kinda why I was asking how people found the new tools and toys and if they're using them in their sets etc?
Judi Sissel
09.06.2012		Sorry, I was kind half asleep with that question. After reading and trying to rephrase the question, I answered it myself. I apologize for the mini hi-jacking. Continue on please

TL;DR- I am an ass. Never mind.
Leeanna Ayla
09.06.2012		Using FX on a sample is the same as using FX on a track regardless of the bit rate. I believe Dario is implying that only wav's should be played while using a DB4.
Lynetta Stanislav
09.06.2012
Originally Posted by DarioJ
Think using the DB4 to manipulate or isolate samples would be doing a disservice to the audio quality of a 320?
Not sure what you mean ???
Tatum Ansaldo
09.06.2012
Originally Posted by DarioJ
Think using the DB4 to manipulate or isolate samples would be doing a disservice to the audio quality of a 320?
Not sure I understand the question...
Rochel Gleese
09.06.2012		Not sure does it have to decompress/recompress? If so that's a great argument to buy AIFF
Judi Sissel
08.06.2012
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
I love it. I've yet to really get into making my own remix sets, but using the sample ones and storing loops in there is both useful and a lot of fun.
Originally Posted by neilmcm
loving mine as well , started making samples and loops on maschine for my own remix sets.
Think using the DB4 to manipulate or isolate samples would be doing a disservice to the audio quality of a 320?
Anisa Fourte
08.06.2012		Got mine yesterday and have had a blast with it so far. Working on my own remix sets right now, but the ones that come are pretty fun themselves.
Leota Dolney
09.06.2012		Just got mine...Will be messing around at home with it toevening ...we'll see how it goes...
Rochel Gleese
08.06.2012		Got mine, played with it toevening . Love it!

A&H Xone92
2 x X1
1x F1
Wallace Lawmaster
08.06.2012		Got mine first of this week. Love it. Finally made some remix sets last evening out of loops I had. T2.5 is stable and works fine for me on my MBP.
Natalia Bucko
08.06.2012
Originally Posted by CionniAsDj
yep, i want too to know how is the deck layout working!!
Well it's just midi, so you can map it however you like. The mapping that they made an overlay for seems awful. also I've heard that they wont let you midi map the rgb LEDs in it, which is the kind of bullshit I'm coming to expect from NI.

For these reasons, I believe I'm gonna wait until the comunnity finishes hacking it, and pick up a midi fighter 3D when i switch to 2.5
Somer Vanstraten
08.06.2012		yep, i want too to know how is the deck layout working!!
Cira Ditz
08.06.2012		Cheers for the feedback guys. Sounds like you're having fun with it (and a bit jealous now)

I'm planning to just get the one and use a 3 deck/1 remix deck setup - believe that's my ideal to cope with various scenarios.

Anyone using it more with the track deck overlay rather than sample firing ?
Lynetta Stanislav
08.06.2012		loving mine as well , started making samples and loops on maschine for my own remix sets.

07.06.2012		loving mine.
Susy Guagliano
07.06.2012		thats Great thanks
Britt Roback
07.06.2012		Yeah I must admit it does rock. Very user friendly and just great fun. Very happy with it. I only have the one with my S4. 4 pages of 64 loops and/or one shots will be plenty for me.
Tatum Ansaldo
07.06.2012		I love it. I've yet to really get into making my own remix sets, but using the sample ones and storing loops in there is both useful and a lot of fun.

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