Calvin Harris
and Dillon Francis
worked there... no way!
| Forbes Article - "How Hard is DJing?" | Julissa Serrone
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by keithace
He is established in the scene, you said it yourself. It sounds like if you keep doing what you're doing then you will have the same advantage soon.
I'm retired from Club DJ'ing This past weekend was just for kicks.
I just re-read my post. What I meant was that my set was MUCH and man MUCH better than the resident who plays each weekend and does a good enough job to keep the place busy. Skill wise we are evenly matched (mixing two tracks) so if that's not it --- what separates us. I believe it's song selection and perhaps the ability to mix two tracks at the right time.
I know you know this Keith, my post is more for the guys who believe that's just not enough and a very easily skill to attain. | Cole Maroto
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
I believe I'm being misunderstood. I'm not trying to say my experience is normal. I was an exception rather than the rule. That being said, I see it as something that can be mastered more or less in a year or two. MASTERED. Compare that to say playing guitar, or any instrument. I just see it as a skill that can be learned to a high level substantially faster than most any other musical hobby.
if that's how you feel then we did misunderstand you because to me it didn't come off that way in your posts. i agree that most people can become very good at something in 2 years with daily practice (and djing probably would be faster than learning guitar in the same amount of time), but i hesitate to throw the word MASTER around (especially in all caps like that). i would disagree and i believe that even people who you believe have mastered something would have a hard time calling themselves a master of their skillset. since no human is perfect there is always room for us to grow and become better at our crafts of choice. hell, even as people. i've been alive for 33 years and i haven't mastered anything in life and i believe most other people don't have the skill or determination to either.
at the end of the day everyone learns and works a bit differently. some people may be able to learn playing guitar faster and better than djing, some the other way around. in any case, it's just a little disheartening to hear all of the negativity surrounding djing and how easy it is for anyone to learn to be consistently good within 3 hours, because that just isn't case 99.9% of the time. | Cole Maroto
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
In terms of DJ sets, how do you quantify "mistakes"? I would assume if a set is programmed in software that it would be flawless. This illustrates one of my gripes about the DJ scene back when I was immersed in it. Since house DJ's far and wide were only known for "flawless mixing" and "track selection", it seemed like people would always critique those elements and would take about "mistakes" in a set...When really, what is a mistake? Isn't that as subjective as "track selection"? Unless of course you're talking about a trainwreck, which is glaringly obvious.
you really don't know how mistakes can be quantified outside of trainwrecks in djing? no, they aren't as subjective as track selection, but wrong track selection could very well be a mistake that's not subjective. there are clearly times when a track comes in that might be a different genre and the energy is noticeably either too high or low, that's a mistake. when the phrasing is off, that's a mistake. when the key is clashing, that's a mistake. when 2 basslines are playing at the same time and sound odd, that's a mistake. when you are playing on cdjs/vinyl and the track goes out of sync for a moment, that's mistake. if you didn't pre grid your tracks and it happens with software too, that's a mistake. when a loop gets botched, that's a mistake. when you don't get your eq or get your levels spot on, that's a mistake. now, some of these mistakes are going to be subtle and most normal (non djs) won't even begin to notice them, but they are almost always there and very few live sets are flawless as you state. are these little mistakes acceptable to nearly everyone? sure. in fact i usually enjoy hearing them because it puts a human quality on something that everyone believes can be perfected in 1 day lately. i've heard sasha trainwreck a transition while he was using ableton. sasha! ableton! trainwreck! is that a common occurrence for him? probably not but we are only humans and we will always make mistakes.
In terms of your "chord" metaphor, do you believe if you gave two different DJ's the same list of tracks to play in the same order, that they could make the sets sound distinctly different? Because I'm very skeptical about that, but I'm also inclined to say it doesn't matter that much.
well, that's not exactly what i was getting at but i'll answer your devil's advocate question anyhow. yes i believe they could make the sets sound distinctly different. creative people will always find ways to get the results they are looking for. will you have a bunch of times where 2 different people make a very similar set because you told them a specific order? sure. it just depends on the dj. what it's more equal to is giving them a same set of tracks and let them do what they want with no restrictions. some people will remix, some people will mashup, some people will quick mix, some people will mix in more of a "standard" way, and track orders will be different to various degrees. the point is, there will be variety and yes it does matter to some people, even if not to you. if you want to get into what matters and doesn't in the grand scale of the universe, time and everything...well, not much we do really matters if you start going far enough.
if you gave musicians the same set of 10 chords to use, they will surely come up with different things as it's not as constrictive as djing pre made tracks together. there are all types of instruments they can use, different tempos, different patterns, different rhythms. i was just trying to break it down to its simplest form to show some similarities and explain why i won't talk a grip of shit to people about how they should be flawless in beatmatching and learning how to dj in a week. just some food for thought. | Freida Leash
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
In terms of your "chord" metaphor, do you believe if you gave two different DJ's the same list of tracks to play in the same order, that they could make the sets sound distinctly different? Because I'm very skeptical about that, but I'm also inclined to say it doesn't matter that much.
I actually hear this sometimes, when someone is going to mix two tracks or even play a track I have. I know this break down is going to kill the energy and am going to loop the hook for 16 beats to play thru it to keep the energy going or start to mix differently using a track as bridge between the weak break down and the storming rest of the groove. If you give me 10 tracks and someone else the same, we are going to program them different, mix with different styles and over all come up with different results. I'm not going to quantify that one is better than the other in a hypothetical, but frequently even the site here runs a contest with the same songs or samples to do what the contestant wants and comes up with a "winner". | Danae Dumler
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
Actually, I did. Care to tell me about more personal life experiences that I must have imagined?
You know, If you actually read the "blah blah" you'd have understood my point; you admitted yourself it actually took you the better part of a year to learn to do this right, not a few hours. Like I said, it's a motor skill, not something you just learn intellectually. Which you already seem to know based on the rest of your posts (which I actually read). It seems we actually agree on these things and I'm not trying to call your life experience into question (seriously, wtf?), so lighten up. | Margie Pavell
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by haze324
I kinda agree with you....I'm an open format DJ. Live in Miami and have played in some decent spots down here. This passed Saturday I played main set at a Club, the resident DJ opened and closed for me. This guy is there every weekend and keeps the place in business. He can def. mix two tracks together and can select the right songs --- but the difference in DJing was HUGE when he was on, and when I came on. Energy, better songs selections, better open format ride from genre to genre, etc....but this guy IS good. He can mix tracks as good as anyone (he played on CD's, I played on SSL) and he's good enough to be there every week. So I ask, if it's NOT song selection then what is it? Because when it comes down to the basics he and I are equally skilled.
He is established in the scene, you said it yourself. It sounds like if you keep doing what you're doing then you will have the same advantage soon. | Beverlee Bedrin
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
How do you distinguish "mixing at a professional level" from mixing at an amateur level? Trainwrecking? If not trainwrecking then anything else would be totally ambiguous and subjective.
If you seriously need to ask that question then your probably at armature level. | Julissa Serrone
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
I can't help but scoff when DJ's talk about how much skill it takes to mix. I don't even factor "track selection" because every DJ believes they have the best track selection.
I kinda agree with you....I'm an open format DJ. Live in Miami and have played in some decent spots down here. This passed Saturday I played main set at a Club, the resident DJ opened and closed for me. This guy is there every weekend and keeps the place in business. He can def. mix two tracks together and can select the right songs --- but the difference in DJing was HUGE when he was on, and my set. My Energy was better, I had better songs selections, better open format ride from genre to genre, etc....but this guy is not bad. He can mix tracks as good as anyone (he played on CD's, I played on SSL) and he's good enough to be there every week. But the difference in us two was pretty big. So I ask, if it's NOT song selection then what is it? Because when it comes down to the basics he and I are equally skilled. | Julissa Serrone
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by keithace
He is established in the scene, you said it yourself. It sounds like if you keep doing what you're doing then you will have the same advantage soon.
I'm retired from Club DJ'ing This past weekend was just for kicks.
I just re-read my post. What I meant was that my set was MUCH and man MUCH better than the resident who plays each weekend and does a good enough job to keep the place busy. Skill wise we are evenly matched (mixing two tracks) so if that's not it --- what separates us. I believe it's song selection and perhaps the ability to mix two tracks at the right time.
I know you know this Keith, my post is more for the guys who believe that's just not enough and a very easily skill to attain. | Beverlee Bedrin
06.08.2012 | ^this guy gets it | Cole Maroto
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
I believe I'm being misunderstood. I'm not trying to say my experience is normal. I was an exception rather than the rule. That being said, I see it as something that can be mastered more or less in a year or two. MASTERED. Compare that to say playing guitar, or any instrument. I just see it as a skill that can be learned to a high level substantially faster than most any other musical hobby.
if that's how you feel then we did misunderstand you because to me it didn't come off that way in your posts. i agree that most people can become very good at something in 2 years with daily practice (and djing probably would be faster than learning guitar in the same amount of time), but i hesitate to throw the word MASTER around (especially in all caps like that). i would disagree and i believe that even people who you believe have mastered something would have a hard time calling themselves a master of their skillset. since no human is perfect there is always room for us to grow and become better at our crafts of choice. hell, even as people. i've been alive for 33 years and i haven't mastered anything in life and i believe most other people don't have the skill or determination to either.
at the end of the day everyone learns and works a bit differently. some people may be able to learn playing guitar faster and better than djing, some the other way around. in any case, it's just a little disheartening to hear all of the negativity surrounding djing and how easy it is for anyone to learn to be consistently good within 3 hours, because that just isn't case 99.9% of the time. | Cole Maroto
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
In terms of DJ sets, how do you quantify "mistakes"? I would assume if a set is programmed in software that it would be flawless. This illustrates one of my gripes about the DJ scene back when I was immersed in it. Since house DJ's far and wide were only known for "flawless mixing" and "track selection", it seemed like people would always critique those elements and would take about "mistakes" in a set...When really, what is a mistake? Isn't that as subjective as "track selection"? Unless of course you're talking about a trainwreck, which is glaringly obvious.
you really don't know how mistakes can be quantified outside of trainwrecks in djing? no, they aren't as subjective as track selection, but wrong track selection could very well be a mistake that's not subjective. there are clearly times when a track comes in that might be a different genre and the energy is noticeably either too high or low, that's a mistake. when the phrasing is off, that's a mistake. when the key is clashing, that's a mistake. when 2 basslines are playing at the same time and sound odd, that's a mistake. when you are playing on cdjs/vinyl and the track goes out of sync for a moment, that's mistake. if you didn't pre grid your tracks and it happens with software too, that's a mistake. when a loop gets botched, that's a mistake. when you don't get your eq or get your levels spot on, that's a mistake. now, some of these mistakes are going to be subtle and most normal (non djs) won't even begin to notice them, but they are almost always there and very few live sets are flawless as you state. are these little mistakes acceptable to nearly everyone? sure. in fact i usually enjoy hearing them because it puts a human quality on something that everyone believes can be perfected in 1 day lately. i've heard sasha trainwreck a transition while he was using ableton. sasha! ableton! trainwreck! is that a common occurrence for him? probably not but we are only humans and we will always make mistakes.
In terms of your "chord" metaphor, do you believe if you gave two different DJ's the same list of tracks to play in the same order, that they could make the sets sound distinctly different? Because I'm very skeptical about that, but I'm also inclined to say it doesn't matter that much.
well, that's not exactly what i was getting at but i'll answer your devil's advocate question anyhow. yes i believe they could make the sets sound distinctly different. creative people will always find ways to get the results they are looking for. will you have a bunch of times where 2 different people make a very similar set because you told them a specific order? sure. it just depends on the dj. what it's more equal to is giving them a same set of tracks and let them do what they want with no restrictions. some people will remix, some people will mashup, some people will quick mix, some people will mix in more of a "standard" way, and track orders will be different to various degrees. the point is, there will be variety and yes it does matter to some people, even if not to you. if you want to get into what matters and doesn't in the grand scale of the universe, time and everything...well, not much we do really matters if you start going far enough.
if you gave musicians the same set of 10 chords to use, they will surely come up with different things as it's not as constrictive as djing pre made tracks together. there are all types of instruments they can use, different tempos, different patterns, different rhythms. i was just trying to break it down to its simplest form to show some similarities and explain why i won't talk a grip of shit to people about how they should be flawless in beatmatching and learning how to dj in a week. just some food for thought. | Freida Leash
06.08.2012 | Ugh... I missed same order... but I believe it differs. I know my mixing style is different than some peoples, and some peoples are similar but over all still I believe you get different results. | Freida Leash
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
In terms of your "chord" metaphor, do you believe if you gave two different DJ's the same list of tracks to play in the same order, that they could make the sets sound distinctly different? Because I'm very skeptical about that, but I'm also inclined to say it doesn't matter that much.
I actually hear this sometimes, when someone is going to mix two tracks or even play a track I have. I know this break down is going to kill the energy and am going to loop the hook for 16 beats to play thru it to keep the energy going or start to mix differently using a track as bridge between the weak break down and the storming rest of the groove. If you give me 10 tracks and someone else the same, we are going to program them different, mix with different styles and over all come up with different results. I'm not going to quantify that one is better than the other in a hypothetical, but frequently even the site here runs a contest with the same songs or samples to do what the contestant wants and comes up with a "winner". | Danae Dumler
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
Actually, I did. Care to tell me about more personal life experiences that I must have imagined?
You know, If you actually read the "blah blah" you'd have understood my point; you admitted yourself it actually took you the better part of a year to learn to do this right, not a few hours. Like I said, it's a motor skill, not something you just learn intellectually. Which you already seem to know based on the rest of your posts (which I actually read). It seems we actually agree on these things and I'm not trying to call your life experience into question (seriously, wtf?), so lighten up. | Margie Pavell
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by haze324
I kinda agree with you....I'm an open format DJ. Live in Miami and have played in some decent spots down here. This passed Saturday I played main set at a Club, the resident DJ opened and closed for me. This guy is there every weekend and keeps the place in business. He can def. mix two tracks together and can select the right songs --- but the difference in DJing was HUGE when he was on, and when I came on. Energy, better songs selections, better open format ride from genre to genre, etc....but this guy IS good. He can mix tracks as good as anyone (he played on CD's, I played on SSL) and he's good enough to be there every week. So I ask, if it's NOT song selection then what is it? Because when it comes down to the basics he and I are equally skilled.
He is established in the scene, you said it yourself. It sounds like if you keep doing what you're doing then you will have the same advantage soon. | Beverlee Bedrin
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
How do you distinguish "mixing at a professional level" from mixing at an amateur level? Trainwrecking? If not trainwrecking then anything else would be totally ambiguous and subjective.
If you seriously need to ask that question then your probably at armature level. | Lela Umanskaya
06.08.2012 | She probably plays dubstep at 140BPM... what a newb lolol | Julissa Serrone
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
I can't help but scoff when DJ's talk about how much skill it takes to mix. I don't even factor "track selection" because every DJ believes they have the best track selection.
I kinda agree with you....I'm an open format DJ. Live in Miami and have played in some decent spots down here. This passed Saturday I played main set at a Club, the resident DJ opened and closed for me. This guy is there every weekend and keeps the place in business. He can def. mix two tracks together and can select the right songs --- but the difference in DJing was HUGE when he was on, and my set. My Energy was better, I had better songs selections, better open format ride from genre to genre, etc....but this guy is not bad. He can mix tracks as good as anyone (he played on CD's, I played on SSL) and he's good enough to be there every week. But the difference in us two was pretty big. So I ask, if it's NOT song selection then what is it? Because when it comes down to the basics he and I are equally skilled. | Tera Baragan
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
You're right, I might be a little condescending, and I tried to distinguish when I wasn't speaking directly towards you...But in all fairness, I don't need to know you or what you mix in order to believe that mixing two tracks together isn't a skill and a half.
You'd be suprised how many people can't do it very well. | Darlene Strohbeck
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by AllDay
Lol at your first comment without knowing a thing about how I mix. Your a very condescending person haha.
You're right, I might be a little condescending, and I tried to distinguish when I wasn't speaking directly towards you...But in all fairness, I don't need to know you or what you mix in order to believe that mixing two tracks together isn't a skill and a half. | Darlene Strohbeck
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by O.D.
Damn, some of these posts seem so cocky. I don't care who you are, what gear or program you have, mixing at a professional level in a way that will keep an audience interested and blown away by your set (& not just cause you dropped the latest chart toppers)REQUIRES YEARS OF EXPIERENCE AND EXPERIMENTATION. I've personally been mixing consistently for over 5 years now and I'm still learning and teaching myself new tricks and technics. It's not about just beat matching or mixing in key or how much effects and loops you can layer on top of each other. To sit back and say, "ok, I've mastered beat matching or phrasing or whatever in this amount of time" is very closed minded.
How do you distinguish "mixing at a professional level" from mixing at an amateur level? Trainwrecking? If not trainwrecking then anything else would be totally ambiguous and subjective. | Darlene Strohbeck
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
As with any other artist forms, the more unique you are in combination with how commercial you could push it, the better.
When you're talking about EDM DJ's where "mixing" and "track selection" are the only elements involved, how "unique" can the experience possibly be? | Darren Teboe
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
although i don't agree with djproben calling your life experiences into question, you have to understand that this is strongly tied into muscle memory, which usually takes people far longer than you to learn. i'm not saying it can't be done, but it's extremely rare to find someone who can get that level of control over their mind, muscles, ears, and hardware in such a short period of time, especially if you go back to using turntables. i don't agree that most people can pick it up easily and do it consistently in as little as one day.
let's look at snowboarding. i have a friend who literally learned how to properly snowboard in less than 10 minutes (and not just the falling leaf), where it usually takes someone about 5-10 days worth of boarding to get to that level. for me it took a little longer due to poor mountain conditions most of the time i went. the same day he learned i also took a massive leap in skill since there was a perfect amount of powder on the mountain. so it can be done, and i have seen it but it's not as common as you make it out to be.
I believe I'm being misunderstood. I'm not trying to say my experience is normal. I was an exception rather than the rule. That being said, I see it as something that can be mastered more or less in a year or two. MASTERED. Compare that to say playing guitar, or any instrument. I just see it as a skill that can be learned to a high level substantially faster than most any other musical hobby. | Darlene Strohbeck
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
i believe you're right to some degree and i'm just saying if you can't show us the goods, then maybe you're being too critical on the idea of mixing and what it takes for most people to get to a level that is consistently good. man, even if you could show me the ultimate skills, i still believe it's a bit uncalled for to belittle the work and effort that people put into their passion. and you should know if you are putting in the time you say you are to this artform (i know how you hate it described that way...sorry man).
You're right, maybe I am being too critical. I have a very cynical way of looking at things, but my gripe is about one-genre DJ's who put together a set full of quantized tracks with a 4/4 time signature, and use the sync feature, and talk about how much skill it takes. Back when some of us only played with vinyl (myself included), and had to manually beatmatch an entire set lasting 2-3 hours, THAT took some skill and attention. But these days, with Traktor and the sync feature, I can't help but scoff when DJ's talk about how much skill it takes to mix. I don't even factor "track selection" because every DJ believes they have the best track selection.
I believe DJ's have been trying hard to make themselves relevant, and it seems that when nobody believes them, they just talk louder, trying to convince people that DJ'ing is a legitimate art form...But with articles such as these, it doesn't seem like anyone is buying it. I believe DJ's should find another way to make themselves relevant other than trying to convince people it that it takes a lot of skill to mix two tracks together, or that they have amazing track selection and/or mixing skills...but I agree that if you're a one-genre DJ, it must be hard to differentiate yourself...But it must also be hard to stay relevant as a one-genre DJ especially if the scene in your hood dies all of a sudden. Around here there's almost no DJ culture anymore, so I've found my own way to stay relevant, like marketing myself as a music expert who's familiar with all genres and the entire history of music.
i agree that mixing 2 single tech house tracks together is easy within itself, but repeating that consistently 15-20+ times during every live set or practice session is not. and as you say, adding other genres, moods, or bpms into the flow just increases that difficulty. i listen to a fair amount of dj sets and i find it a rare occurrence to hear a technically perfect mix (i'm excluding song selection which is subjective). there are almost always mistakes, even from pro djs who use software. look, i can play 3 guitar or piano chords together easily, but does that make learning either one of those things and writing whole songs with them a cakewalk? i don't believe so and i feel pretty much the same about djing at a high level. at the most basic level they are virtually the same thing...you are taking things people have already created (i.e. songs or chords or notes) and putting them together in a way that speaks to people and is hopefully unique to yourself.
learning the basics of these things is generally easy, but perfecting them takes a lifetime.
And that's what I'm talking about. Mixing two tech house tracks is simple, especially if they're quantized and you use the sync feature, even if you have to do it 15-20 times within a set...But I honestly feel like the true skill in mixing comes from traversing over different genre's, and different BPM ranges, mixing tracks that are not quantized and need to be manually beatmatched.
In terms of DJ sets, how do you quantify "mistakes"? I would assume if a set is programmed in software that it would be flawless. This illustrates one of my gripes about the DJ scene back when I was immersed in it. Since house DJ's far and wide were only known for "flawless mixing" and "track selection", it seemed like people would always critique those elements and would take about "mistakes" in a set...When really, what is a mistake? Isn't that as subjective as "track selection"? Unless of course you're talking about a trainwreck, which is glaringly obvious.
In terms of your "chord" metaphor, do you believe if you gave two different DJ's the same list of tracks to play in the same order, that they could make the sets sound distinctly different? Because I'm very skeptical about that, but I'm also inclined to say it doesn't matter that much. | Cole Maroto
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
Actually, I did. Care to tell me about more personal life experiences that I must have imagined?
although i don't agree with djproben calling your life experiences into question, you have to understand that this is strongly tied into muscle memory, which usually takes people far longer than you to learn. i'm not saying it can't be done, but it's extremely rare to find someone who can get that level of control over their mind, muscles, ears, and hardware in such a short period of time, especially if you go back to using turntables. i don't agree that most people can pick it up easily and do it consistently in as little as one day.
let's look at snowboarding. i have a friend who literally learned how to properly snowboard in less than 10 minutes (and not just the falling leaf), where it usually takes someone about 5-10 days worth of boarding to get to that level. for me it took a little longer due to poor mountain conditions most of the time i went. the same day he learned i also took a massive leap in skill since there was a perfect amount of powder on the mountain. so it can be done, and i have seen it but it's not as common as you make it out to be. | Darren Teboe
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJ Descendent
is this discriminating Cotrollerist's?. i now dislike dead mouse. analog is stupid anywy.
"Zimmerman, number six on our list of highest earning DJs, recently criticized several of his peers for “button-pushing” during live shows. With the increase in ease afforded by technologies like Ableton and Virtual DJ, which can be used to queue and sync tracks, Zimmerman claimed several DJ/producers rely on pre-recorded tracks rather than recreating their music during so-called live sets."
It's nothing more than telling the truth about himself and others like him... producers, who play all their own music and not much more during their sets. | Alene Kalush
06.08.2012 | is this discriminating Cotrollerist's?. i now dislike dead mouse. analog is stupid anywy.
"Zimmerman, number six on our list of highest earning DJs, recently criticized several of his peers for | Darren Teboe
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by djproben
No. You didn't.
blah blah blah
barble
blah
Actually, I did. Care to tell me about more personal life experiences that I must have imagined? | Dorcas Bassignani
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Grifff
It's the equivalent of saying: "How hard is it to learn football?"... It takes two days to learn as long as you can run and kick a ball towards the goal. Or 'How hard is it to XYZ?".
Many things can be learnt easily, but take a lifetime to master
just like Tiddlywinks
| Kassandra Guthmiller
06.08.2012 | It's the equivalent of saying: "How hard is it to learn football?"... It takes two days to learn as long as you can run and kick a ball towards the goal. Or 'How hard is it to XYZ?".
Many things can be learnt easily, but take a lifetime to master | Rolanda Clodfelder
06.08.2012 |
Information for the World's Business Leaders - Forbes.com
I wouldn't even take notice of the article TBH...
Care to name a few world business leaders who know jack shit about DJ'ing apart from major event promoters or labels who are not going to write something like this anyhow as it would put a dent in their pockets if taken seriously.
The article IMHO is just another writer trying to get everyones knickers in a twist to gain website hits and self promotion.
Guess what .. it worked. | Dorie Scelzo
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by jfd6812
I stopped reading when it said deamaofive. If he's mentioned as an authority, the article has no more to do with DJing than a video of deaf mutes jerking off into a pool of children's tears. | Margie Pavell
06.08.2012 | Did it really take 5 and a half pages for someone to speak about track selection? | Danae Dumler
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by crakbot
Think about how software will be in 5 years. You will probably be able to drag two waveforms together where you want them to blend and the software will do it near perfectly.
This is different from what's available now how exactly? I mean, the user interface you describe might not be available, but that might be because it's a dumb user interface. But software can already pretty much do this for you, whether you look at DJ interfaces (Traktor, VDJ), Ableton Live, or something even simpler like Mixed in Key's Mashup thingie. There's nothing in what you describe we should have to wait five years for, and it hasn't made DJs obsolete yet. |
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by crakbot
Your audience has access to the same songs you do, so they've heard those remixes before, they know you aren't doing anything. They see doofus famous people go from no DJ'ing to headlining big clubs. Your audience will not be impressed anymore with standard DJ'ing, they see it as a fraud or soon will.
That's why I said you need to do more complex routines.
That's utter bollocks. I don't know if you just buy the top 10 from Itunes or what but not even my fellow djs have heard most of the tunes I play, hence the reason that I pretty much constantly had people coming up to me during my set on Friday and checking out the names of the tracks.
The reason that people are good djs is because of tune selection (which is not subjective, you shouldn't have to know a genre inside out to know if someone is playing good records or not, I'm not hugely into dubstep for example but it's easy to tell the difference between someone just playing a shitty set or a good set) plus general competence at mixing. You don't need to do complex routines to rock a dancefloor, and if you've got an even half-mature taste in music you'll be playing stuff that the vast majority of punters won't know. If they do then you've either got an incredibly educated crowd or you're just not digging for tunes enough, try expanding your reach beyond the top 10s of major music sites. | Freida Leash
06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by jfd6812
I was just annoyed because there was almost no discussion of beat matching at all. The article seems to ignore the fact that songs can, i don't know, have different tempos, etc. Even if she was learning on a program with sync, which she wasn't, i would believe you would still address what you do to actually match the tracks. I know its stupid but it still annoyed me.
This took me about a week alone with two turntables and a cheap mixer to get the concept down with four on the floor house records. Granted I literally drooled when it happened and could actually start to mix two records in phrase and sync. I'm pretty sure with guidance it would be happening in the same afternoon, as the people I showed the stupid bs that took me a week to figure out picked it up much faster.
Being able to put together an effective and interesting mix is something that only experience can produce. Being able to develop a style and place ownership over playing two recordings is another task, style and expression are a journey that lots of people never truly will understand.
He did kind of give credit at the end of the article to crowd reading, but I believe missed some of the other critical things that separates us. Paris will have her day, until starting a dog in the purse magazine, and it is like judging us all by the lowest common denominator. | Frieda Swoboda
06.08.2012 | I just want to add two things to my above post:
1) I'm not bashing anyone's current DJ style, this is about trends and where things are going.
2) By "more complex routines" I mean complex routines that still sound as seamless as perfectly blending two songs. So yes, more complex, but just as smooth as a simple mix. This is what takes the skill. I don't just mean crazy cue jumping and effects for no reason. | Frieda Swoboda
05.08.2012 | Whether you like it or not, you will have to do more than just blend songs as a DJ pretty soon.
Think about how software will be in 5 years. You will probably be able to drag two waveforms together where you want them to blend and the software will do it near perfectly. It's already done with photographs and videos, so music will do it soon. Will it always work? No, but it will be good enough to make DJ'ing possible with zero learning at all. The same way people can make cool videos on their own, people will just drag and drop the songs they like onto a timeline and make their own mixes.
Like it or not, that's the way things are going. Why do you believe there are so many articles about DJ'ing being easy. The curtain is being pulled back. Your audience has access to the same songs you do, so they've heard those remixes before, they know you aren't doing anything. They see doofus famous people go from no DJ'ing to headlining big clubs. Your audience will not be impressed anymore with standard DJ'ing, they see it as a fraud or soon will.
That's why I said you need to do more complex routines. | Danae Dumler
05.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by sobi
It's one of the simplest parts of DJing, and with just a little bit of practice, most people can pick it up easily. I learned in one day.
No. You didn't.
I agree that beatmatching is a relatively easy skill in the grand scheme of things, but easy doesn't mean quick to master. Maybe in one day you understood what beatmatching was and mixed two house songs together without too many mistakes, but it takes time for your body to learn what the mind already understands. That's just a fact - your ears have to get used to hearing two different tracks at once, picking out which is going faster, and your hands have to get used to reacting to that difference in the appropriate ways. There's no substitute for practice to actually learn the skill even to a basic level, where you can mix two songs together with confidence. And I'm talking about actual mixing by ear here, not mixing with waveforms or BPM readouts or other visual cues - sure, in a day you can learn the math and learn to look at BPM meters and move the pitch faders the appropriate percentage up or down, but that's not matching by ear even if you're not using a computer.
For anyone actually trying to learn to mix by ear, yes, the skill is ultimately quite easy, and it will feel easy to you when you have it down, but don't listen to anyone who says you can pick it up in a few hours, it's just not true. I'd say weeks at a minimum, if you're able to practice every day for a couple or so hours a day. I'd say it took me two months to get down and even then I was still hit and miss at times. And if I don't practice for a few weeks I will probably mess up again at first, though it's pretty much like riding a bike, the basic motor skills stay in your body and you come back to it quickly.
So yes it's possible for it to be easy, but at the same time to take time to learn. |
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