Forbes Article - "How Hard is DJing?"

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Forbes Article - "How Hard is DJing?"
Posted on: 03.08.2012 by Onie Sarandos
http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalier...count-to-four/


I know I shouldn't care, but this article came close to infuriating me anyway.
Dorcas Bassignani
05.08.2012
this is the most repetative subject on dj community s, and always goes the same way, for example from this site...

I don't mean to be rude, but there's a lot more to djing than beatmatching... if you plan on "not doing anything", you will suck, even if the beats happen to be matched by a computer program. Just listen to mixes other people (good djs) have made, they will be a lot better than your own.
yeah, if you don't/can't beat and phrase match everything will sound shit regardless of anything else, but all the subtle parts like fx use, eq tweaks and various fader styles are just decoration that add a personal touch, they are not the back bone of djing - just fuel for egos.
Celine Surico
05.08.2012
This might be a provocative posting but hey it's a Sunday afternoon.

Me believes the future of DJ:ing will become:
* Even more celebrities coat tailing the DJ trade thanks for sync and other cheat tools.
* Some DJ:s believeing that the audience likes complex controllerism performances events while it mostly pleases some other DJs.
* The audience actually getting bored of of the fist pumping DJs-- lights, special effects and smoke bombs will not make this whole spectacle long lived.
* DJ:ing in most cases will go back to more intimate special events, smaller clubs and so on.

If someone wants to survive this all, they have to believe like the early day mammals, hide and hone their skills so they inherit the DJ world after the dinosaurs have died out.

In other words:
* Spend a lot of time learning music and styles so you have a good background in music itself. Technology will fix all the mixing but Genius and other tools seldom if ever have the same quality of choice for music as a human brain.
* Make yourself exclusive so you have your own style you could sell, does not mean to specialize down to the level of brostep only, but have some good angle for why you are DJ:ing. It helps if you are passionate about a certain domain of music.
* The more you find exclusive content to play, the more exclusive you are: i.e. produce your own mixes, be buddies with producers, find cool stuff from lesser known artists, spelunk a lot and yes there's a huge body of dance music that's been around for 50+ years.
* DId I mention that branding it important?
Beverlee Bedrin
05.08.2012
Damn, some of these posts seem so cocky. I don't care who you are, what gear or program you have, mixing at a professional level in a way that will keep an audience interested and blown away by your set (& not just cause you dropped the latest chart toppers)REQUIRES YEARS OF EXPIERENCE AND EXPERIMENTATION. I've personally been mixing consistently for over 5 years now and I'm still learning and teaching myself new tricks and technics. It's not about just beat matching or mixing in key or how much effects and loops you can layer on top of each other. To sit back and say, "ok, I've mastered beat matching or phrasing or whatever in this amount of time" is very closed minded.
Tera Baragan
05.08.2012
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
...Or the music you're playing is so similar and monotonous that nobody can tell, or even care.

Don't fool yourself. Mixing two tracks doesn't take that much skill...And I wouldn't call it a skill and a half.
Lol at your first comment without knowing a thing about how I mix. Your a very condescending person haha.
Devora Chait
05.08.2012
I remember picking up my guitar and after a few hours of practice, i could play californication by the chilli peppers. I learned to play the guitar in 2 hours. There for, playing the guitar is WAAAY easier then DJING. Lol, these kind of statements are ridiculous at best.
Darren Teboe
05.08.2012
Originally Posted by AllDay
Mixing songs together so that noone can tell that your even changing the song takes ages hombre. Sure u can put the song at the same bpm and start it at an appropriate time. But getting your songs to mesh together perfectly is a skill and a half.
Again, that didn't take that long... under a year.
Rey Holubar
05.08.2012
Originally Posted by SirReal
I kinda read that as the guy who paints houses commenting on a beautiful painting and saying anybody can paint, I taught my friend to paint his house in 2 hours. Sorry.
Yeah, but he wasn't talking about painting a house. He was talking about painting a painting. You know, a work of art, which painting a house with just one color isn't.

And I actually feel every DJ performance, in its own right, is a work of art, because the DJ performs to a crowd of people with subjective opinions. Whether or not that work of art is accepted and liked or despised is up to the ears of the beholders. So in that sense, DJing is an art form. Getting those ears to have enjoyment is the DJ's job and his skill and talent are what will get that enjoyment and that skill and talent does not come about in an hour. End of story.

I don't like the article either, because it paints an incomplete picture of the DJ profession in general. And I bet this all would not have come up had lovely Paris not done that terrible DJ job in Brazil.

I like this comment on Forbes to the article.

How Hard Is Writing an Article? Spew on Keyboard


by Natalie Robehmed


When stay-at-home ‘journalist’ and sometime Forbes staffer, Natalie Robehmed, made her “How Hard Is DJing” expos
Cole Maroto
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by SirReal
I kinda read that as the guy who paints houses commenting on a beautiful painting and saying anybody can paint, I taught my friend to paint his house in 2 hours. Sorry.
lol.
Cole Maroto
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
I feel like that would just be cannon fodder.

The truth is, I don't make mixes.

I'll admit that maybe it takes a couple years to be able to play an entire live set perfectly, but mixing itself is fairly simple, especially with Traktor.

I recently taught a friend how to DJ and he had no problem pulling of decent cuts and mixes about half the time, after a couple hours of instruction.
i believe you're right to some degree and i'm just saying if you can't show us the goods, then maybe you're being too critical on the idea of mixing and what it takes for most people to get to a level that is consistently good. man, even if you could show me the ultimate skills, i still believe it's a bit uncalled for to belittle the work and effort that people put into their passion. and you should know if you are putting in the time you say you are to this artform (i know how you hate it described that way...sorry man).

i agree that mixing 2 single tech house tracks together is easy within itself, but repeating that consistently 15-20+ times during every live set or practice session is not. and as you say, adding other genres, moods, or bpms into the flow just increases that difficulty. i listen to a fair amount of dj sets and i find it a rare occurrence to hear a technically perfect mix (i'm excluding song selection which is subjective). there are almost always mistakes, even from pro djs who use software. look, i can play 3 guitar or piano chords together easily, but does that make learning either one of those things and writing whole songs with them a cakewalk? i don't believe so and i feel pretty much the same about djing at a high level. at the most basic level they are virtually the same thing...you are taking things people have already created (i.e. songs or chords or notes) and putting them together in a way that speaks to people and is hopefully unique to yourself.

learning the basics of these things is generally easy, but perfecting them takes a lifetime.
Chasidy Heckenbach
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by crakbot
yet some people at the forefront used that ease to make more complex music, like dubstep.
Antonetta Wikel
04.08.2012
I kinda read that as the guy who paints houses commenting on a beautiful painting and saying anybody can paint, I taught my friend to paint his house in 2 hours. Sorry.
Darlene Strohbeck
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
ah tokenasianguy, this is still a hot button for you i see. i'm curious to hear some of your mixes. have any online?
I feel like that would just be cannon fodder.

The truth is, I don't make mixes.

I'll admit that maybe it takes a couple years to be able to play an entire live set perfectly, but mixing itself is fairly simple, especially with Traktor.

I recently taught a friend how to DJ and he had no problem pulling of decent cuts and mixes about half the time, after a couple hours of instruction.
Cole Maroto
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
...Or the music you're playing is so similar and monotonous that nobody can tell, or even care.

Don't fool yourself. Mixing two tracks doesn't take that much skill...And I wouldn't call it a skill and a half.

As much as it made the OP angry to read that article, it actually makes me angry when DJ's talk about how much skill is involved with mixing two tracks of the same genre together.

When DJ's get hired, they're getting hired for the whole package, not just their ability to mix two tracks together. Image, service, salesmanship, etc are all things that matter when getting any kind of gig (or job for that matter, even if it's in a corporate office).

For clubs/Touring DJ's - It's a combination of track selection, skill, taste, and most of all, bringing a personal perspective to the table. It's about "uniqueness" and doing something different, because nobody wants to hear the same crap all the time from the same cookie cutter DJ. But how much of that is subjective? I actually stopped going out to hear DJ's because I couldn't stand everything I heard. IMO, nobody has a decent track selection in this city, except me. Case in point, everyone's opinion is like an asshole. Everyone has one and they all stink.

Mobile DJ's - The skill is still necessary, track selection isn't so important because people give you requests all evening and everyone that attends a wedding is just a sheep anyway. You also have to be an AV tech of sorts, and not look like a total douche, showing up with a spread collar, cheap suit, big moustache etc. (which incidentally describes most wedding DJ's). Again, everyone's opinion stinks, but I'll be damned if you manage to convince any of them.

But don't kid yourself, it's not brain surgery, and mixing two songs isn't a skill and a half and doesn't take years to perfect. No offense, but if it takes you years to perfect "mixing" or that's what you consider "a skill and a half" you're in for a world of struggle because there's much harder things in life...And DJ'ing (even if you include manual beatmatching), doesn't come anywhere near being the most difficult, or even moderately difficult.

People pay me to DJ because they need a music expert. Someone who knows virtually every genre of music inside and out, and also knows their way around audio gear...Not because I've perfected the skill and a half of mixing two tracks of the same genre together...

I can hold my own about virtually any genre of music, from any day/age...THAT is something that takes a lifetime of work...But it's still not that hard, because it's my passion.

When DJ's specialize in only playing one genre, and only familiarizing themselves with one genre (not saying this is you because I don't know you. I'm just making a general statement), then say DJ'ing takes years of work, it makes me laugh.
ah tokenasianguy, this is still a hot button for you i see. i'm curious to hear some of your mixes. have any online?
Celine Surico
04.08.2012
As with any other artist forms, the more unique you are in combination with how commercial you could push it, the better.
Dorcas Bassignani
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by tokenasianguy
Either that or "How many thousands of dollars of gear do we need to mix two songs together?!?!"
i dread to believe how much i've spent over the years, yet my current set-up (which does more than the most expensive 2xTT & 2xCDJ set-up i've owned) only cost about
Darlene Strohbeck
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by BradCee
+1
in a kind of ironic way, the less stuff people realise you're doing, the better you are
I tell that to my friend all the time.

"The better you DJ, the less people will notice".

Either that or "How many thousands of dollars of gear do we need to mix two songs together?!?!"
Darlene Strohbeck
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by AllDay
Mixing songs together so that noone can tell that your even changing the song takes ages hombre. Sure u can put the song at the same bpm and start it at an appropriate time. But getting your songs to mesh together perfectly is a skill and a half.
...Or the music you're playing is so similar and monotonous that nobody can tell, or even care.

Don't fool yourself. Mixing two tracks doesn't take that much skill...And I wouldn't call it a skill and a half.

As much as it made the OP angry to read that article, it actually makes me angry when DJ's talk about how much skill is involved with mixing two tracks of the same genre together.

When DJ's get hired, they're getting hired for the whole package, not just their ability to mix two tracks together. Image, service, salesmanship, etc are all things that matter when getting any kind of gig (or job for that matter, even if it's in a corporate office).

For clubs/Touring DJ's - It's a combination of track selection, skill, taste, and most of all, bringing a personal perspective to the table. It's about "uniqueness" and doing something different, because nobody wants to hear the same crap all the time from the same cookie cutter DJ. But how much of that is subjective? I actually stopped going out to hear DJ's because I couldn't stand everything I heard. IMO, nobody has a decent track selection in this city, except me. Case in point, everyone's opinion is like an asshole. Everyone has one and they all stink.

Mobile DJ's - The skill is still necessary, track selection isn't so important because people give you requests all evening and everyone that attends a wedding is just a sheep anyway. You also have to be an AV tech of sorts, and not look like a total douche, showing up with a spread collar, cheap suit, big moustache etc. (which incidentally describes most wedding DJ's). Again, everyone's opinion stinks, but I'll be damned if you manage to convince any of them.

But don't kid yourself, it's not brain surgery, and mixing two songs isn't a skill and a half and doesn't take years to perfect. No offense, but if it takes you years to perfect "mixing" or that's what you consider "a skill and a half" you're in for a world of struggle because there's much harder things in life...And DJ'ing (even if you include manual beatmatching), doesn't come anywhere near being the most difficult, or even moderately difficult.

People pay me to DJ because they need a music expert. Someone who knows virtually every genre of music inside and out, and also knows their way around audio gear...Not because I've perfected the skill and a half of mixing two tracks of the same genre together...

I can hold my own about virtually any genre of music, from any day/age...THAT is something that takes a lifetime of work...But it's still not that hard, because it's my passion.

When DJ's specialize in only playing one genre, and only familiarizing themselves with one genre (not saying this is you because I don't know you. I'm just making a general statement), then say DJ'ing takes years of work, it makes me laugh.
Dorcas Bassignani
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by AllDay
Mixing songs together so that noone can tell that your even changing the song takes ages hombre. Sure u can put the song at the same bpm and start it at an appropriate time. But getting your songs to mesh together perfectly is a skill and a half.
+1
in a kind of ironic way, the less stuff people realise you're doing, the better you are
Tera Baragan
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
It's one of the simplest parts of DJing, and with just a little bit of practice, most people can pick it up easily. I learned in one day.
Mixing songs together so that noone can tell that your even changing the song takes ages hombre. Sure u can put the song at the same bpm and start it at an appropriate time. But getting your songs to mesh together perfectly is a skill and a half.
Darren Teboe
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by jfd6812
I was just annoyed because there was almost no discussion of beat matching at all. The article seems to ignore the fact that songs can, i don't know, have different tempos, etc. Even if she was learning on a program with sync, which she wasn't, i would believe you would still address what you do to actually match the tracks. I know its stupid but it still annoyed me.
It's one of the simplest parts of DJing, and with just a little bit of practice, most people can pick it up easily. I learned in one day.
Darren Teboe
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by Woah
Lol @ deadmau5, he so badass he can beatmatch, phrase dj and land a proffesional mix in one hour. He is saying he went from a noob to a pro in one hour. that cocky attitude like he's the best artist who ever lived may work with those blogs but frankly it doesn't mean shit to me or actual proper dj's im guessing.

If you really "understood", you'd realize the mau5e is right. What he and other producers who DJ their music isn't that hard. What he does and what people who mix sets with combination of different artists do are completely different. There isn't much skill involved in putting together a set of mostly your own stuff, and a bit less goes into it seeing how you know it inside and out.
I find it puzzling that people just can't except that while poorly constructed, Mau5e's comment on DJing was nail on the head as to what he and his peers do.
Yevette Matatall
05.08.2012
Originally Posted by crakbot
It's pretty obvious that controllerism is the future. DJ'ing is dead as far as I'm concerned. There is still a place for it but it's pretty much done.

You either have to put on some kind of show, or mix your own unique sounds.

You have to look at technology that makes DJ'ing easy as a good thing. Instead of seeing it as a way to make it easy for noobs, you have to see it as a way to free you up from the mundane tasks of DJ'ing so you can do more complex and unique routines.

Just like in school, a calculator takes care of the mundane arithmetic so you can concentrate on more advanced concepts.

Same with digital music, everyone complained that making music is so easy now, yet some people at the forefront used that ease to make more complex music, like dubstep.

.
I thought you were trolling, the I saw the "like dubstep" comment....then it dawned on me.....your serious.
Danae Dumler
04.08.2012
Originally Posted by jfd6812
I was just annoyed because there was almost no discussion of beat matching at all. The article seems to ignore the fact that songs can, i don't know, have different tempos, etc. Even if she was learning on a program with sync, which she wasn't, i would believe you would still address what you do to actually match the tracks. I know its stupid but it still annoyed me.
Pretty sure she didn't even start learning beatmatching, and that her "first professional mix" consisted of a quick fade out of one song and in to the other on the 1.

She's full of shit, frankly. Maybe she learned the baby scratch and the transform in under an hour. But she certainly didn't "master" them.
Eden Effland
03.08.2012
Originally Posted by Woah
Complex music... Dubstep? Seriously? I can see the occasional value in the old school stuff but the current bro step trend is all focused on a drop and it all sounds the same. "Hmm let's make a dubstep track, now then, should it go dubwubwoop, or woopdubwub?".

Also, in my honest opinion DJing has NEVER EVER been about complex and unique routines, yes, to other DJ's, but to the audience it doesn't mean SHIT. They go to a show to hear some bomb music and a good vibe, that's your job and nothing less.
Both can easily be done with CDJ's and controllers.

Which I may add, anyone who knows how to mix on cdj's can take his cd's and mix ANYWHERE. I don't see controllers becoming the standard at all as the negatives outweigh the positives by a long shot for club owners. Quite the hassle if you have a line-up with every DJ bringing his own controller.
+2

This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.
Celina Crusey
03.08.2012
The creative side of DJ'ing has definitely shifted more towards "adding" more to what's going on. Instead of beatmatching, people are launching tons of loops/synths/creating live fx/etc. I believe this is where DJ's are at a standstill; there are very few GOOD options for creating electronic music live (with one person). Ableton is an option but requires a hell of a lot of setup/planning for your set. I personally am really looking forward to software that allows us to do more live. I want to create loops on the fly, make a synth, and basically make a song live while transitioning into other bits. Until then, the most creative DJ's/controllerists are the ones that work together. We only have two hands after all!
Dorcas Bassignani
03.08.2012
Originally Posted by ellgieff
Wait, did any of you read that?

The writer claimed to have the transformer "down" in 30 seconds. I don't believe the writer knows what a competent transformer sounds like.

Put it this way: I can play a C-Major on the piano. Therefore, piano playing is easy, and requires no skill.
Rosenda Gossage
03.08.2012
Wait, did any of you read that?

The writer claimed to have the transformer "down" in 30 seconds. I don't believe the writer knows what a competent transformer sounds like.

Put it this way: I can play a C-Major on the piano. Therefore, piano playing is easy, and requires no skill.
Julissa Serrone
03.08.2012
Originally Posted by Woah
Complex music... Dubstep? Seriously? I can see the occasional value in the old school stuff but the current bro step trend is all focused on a drop and it all sounds the same. "Hmm let's make a dubstep track, now then, should it go dubwubwoop, or woopdubwub?".

Also, in my honest opinion DJing has NEVER EVER been about complex and unique routines, yes, to other DJ's, but to the audience it doesn't mean SHIT. They go to a show to hear some bomb music and a good vibe, that's your job and nothing less.
Both can easily be done with CDJ's and controllers.

Which I may add, anyone who knows how to mix on cdj's can take his cd's and mix ANYWHERE. I don't see controllers becoming the standard at all as the negatives outweigh the positives by a long shot for club owners. Quite the hassle if you have a line-up with every DJ bringing his own controller.
+1

also as long as there is still hip hop music DJ's will still want to scratch on vinyl.
Darlene Strohbeck
03.08.2012
Originally Posted by jfd6812
http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalier...count-to-four/


I know I shouldn't care, but this article came close to infuriating me anyway.
As much as people hate to admit it, I believe a lot of points in that article was spot-on.

Like the fact that learning turntablism iis much harder than learning how to mix.

DJ's always like to go on an on about how "proper" mixing and "proper track selection" are something that take years of work, but let's face it, it's no brain surgery. Not to mention "track selection" is totally subjective. Case in point, a large majority of the tracks/sets I've heard are underwhelming at best...Doesn't mean my opinion is the correct one.

Anyone can DJ. For some, it takes a few hours to learn, for some (who might have a higher learning curve), it could take years...But one thing is for sure, most people, can eventually learn to DJ.

Brain surgery on the other hand...I'm not in the field, but I can only assume it's not something anyone can do.
Devora Chait
03.08.2012
Originally Posted by crakbot
It's pretty obvious that controllerism is the future. DJ'ing is dead as far as I'm concerned. There is still a place for it but it's pretty much done.

You either have to put on some kind of show, or mix your own unique sounds.

You have to look at technology that makes DJ'ing easy as a good thing. Instead of seeing it as a way to make it easy for noobs, you have to see it as a way to free you up from the mundane tasks of DJ'ing so you can do more complex and unique routines.

Just like in school, a calculator takes care of the mundane arithmetic so you can concentrate on more advanced concepts.

Same with digital music, everyone complained that making music is so easy now, yet some people at the forefront used that ease to make more complex music, like dubstep.

Even in fighting games, the community s are filled with people saying it's too easy now because all you have do is watch YouTube videos to learn big combos. Yet the guys at the forefront are inventing even crazier combos.

Take advantage of the technology to stay ahead of the noobs.
Complex music... Dubstep? Seriously? I can see the occasional value in the old school stuff but the current bro step trend is all focused on a drop and it all sounds the same. "Hmm let's make a dubstep track, now then, should it go dubwubwoop, or woopdubwub?".

Also, in my honest opinion DJing has NEVER EVER been about complex and unique routines, yes, to other DJ's, but to the audience it doesn't mean SHIT. They go to a show to hear some bomb music and a good vibe, that's your job and nothing less.
Both can easily be done with CDJ's and controllers.

Which I may add, anyone who knows how to mix on cdj's can take his cd's and mix ANYWHERE. I don't see controllers becoming the standard at all as the negatives outweigh the positives by a long shot for club owners. Quite the hassle if you have a line-up with every DJ bringing his own controller.
Onie Sarandos
03.08.2012
I was just annoyed because there was almost no discussion of beat matching at all. The article seems to ignore the fact that songs can, i don't know, have different tempos, etc. Even if she was learning on a program with sync, which she wasn't, i would believe you would still address what you do to actually match the tracks. I know its stupid but it still annoyed me.
Frieda Swoboda
03.08.2012
Originally Posted by BradCee
as long as that doesn't mean continual beatmasher and filter whoring, too much of that kicking about imo, it's nice now and again to spice things up, but not every 5 seconds.
I agree, that's just as bad as noob DJ'ing.

But there are so many things you can do now, you just have to be creative, use new software, try new things, etc.
Dorcas Bassignani
03.08.2012
Originally Posted by crakbot
you have to see it as a way to free you up from the mundane tasks of DJ'ing so you can do more complex and unique routines.
as long as that doesn't mean continual beatmasher and filter whoring, too much of that kicking about imo, it's nice now and again to spice things up, but not every 5 seconds.
Frieda Swoboda
03.08.2012
It's pretty obvious that controllerism is the future. DJ'ing is dead as far as I'm concerned. There is still a place for it but it's pretty much done.

You either have to put on some kind of show, or mix your own unique sounds.

You have to look at technology that makes DJ'ing easy as a good thing. Instead of seeing it as a way to make it easy for noobs, you have to see it as a way to free you up from the mundane tasks of DJ'ing so you can do more complex and unique routines.

Just like in school, a calculator takes care of the mundane arithmetic so you can concentrate on more advanced concepts.

Same with digital music, everyone complained that making music is so easy now, yet some people at the forefront used that ease to make more complex music, like dubstep.

Even in fighting games, the community s are filled with people saying it's too easy now because all you have do is watch YouTube videos to learn big combos. Yet the guys at the forefront are inventing even crazier combos.

Take advantage of the technology to stay ahead of the noobs.
Dorcas Bassignani
03.08.2012
doesn't he mainly use ableton when playing live?
Devora Chait
03.08.2012
Lol @ deadmau5, he so badass he can beatmatch, phrase dj and land a proffesional mix in one hour. He is saying he went from a noob to a pro in one hour. that cocky attitude like he's the best artist who ever lived may work with those blogs but frankly it doesn't mean shit to me or actual proper dj's im guessing.
Dorcas Bassignani
03.08.2012
Most of it is sadly true now though... I don't wanna get on some 'dinosaur' rant about 'easy tech' and 'kids have it easy', but, well... you know
Chaya Hoshaw
03.08.2012
highest paid djs list...

http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/reality-rocks/reality-check-jersey-shore-star-pauly-d-makes-010836003.html

note: pauly D =$11million/year... :/

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