My Outlandish ,speculations on what Traktor Hardware Native Instruments will put out. I had a few thoughts that had been floating around in my brain finally coalesce while I was participating in a couple of posts regarding base model Pioneer CDjs, XDJ-Aero, and speculation on the yet to be releases XDJ-R1 and "Remotebox".
The thoughts are centered around what will NI do next with Traktor. They introduced the Z2..ok, that was interesting. Then Traktor DJ for iPad...much in demand and expected given the competition. Pioneer put out the XDJ-Aero which is an all in one media player that can play tunes remotely over wifi using rekordbox or off a USB stick. Along with the CDJ2000 nexus with rekordbox and wifi support. What I am seeing is a trend to embrace the digital workflow rather than the "analog" workflow: e.g., vinyl and CDjs.
In that light, I would love to see a few things come from Native Instruments:
1) a modular Kontrol (e.g., Kontrol R2) that is a dedicated FX processor like the RMX1000. It would not simply be a MIDI controller, it would have built-in emulation of Traktor's FX, and Macro FX, and hopefully some isolator and release FX like in the RMX. It could control the FX units in Traktor using it as a midi divide, or standalone paired with a mixer with RCA & 1/4" jacks to process the audio signal. The key is that this could either be a pure FX processor like the RMX1000 by emulating traktors FX (like the Z2 emulates the EQs and filters) or it could be an FX controller (over HID/MIDI) for traktor's FX and enable access/full control over new Traktor FX unit features (e.g., Isoloator FX, release FX, etc.) as the F1 did with Remix Decks.
2) I could see NI looking into creating a media player (e.g., Kontrol P1) that runs the internal traktor algorithms emulated in hardware and play digital media files off a USB and do something like "dropbox sync" over wifi, or just export the library to the USB to keep cues, loops etc up to date. It would support hot cues, loops, waveform display etc. and be linkable to other such controllers to enable SYNC, library sharing off a single USB etc.
3)...i'll leave that open |
Matt Kane
16.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Ed Paris gains +3 troll skill
troll skills? i don |
Lorri Bobar
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by Ed Paris
i might know what ni will come up with next. but i also might not. it |
Danae Dumler
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by diezdiazgiant
Man fuck new controllers just give me some library management that doesn't make me wish I was using serato.
And before anyone goes flaming me believeing I'm a serato fan boy trolling, I use both and maintain a library for both, and there some annoying faults in traktors library management
^^^^100% agree with this. I already have more cheap controllers than I need; even if NI opened up remix decks I'd still have enough buttons and knobs left over to fight the next fucking war on terrorism. I love Traktor but between the library and the controller manager it feels like I'm editing spreadsheets rather than playing music. I realize Controller Manager is a taller order to fix but some basic controls could make things a lot easier. But the library is inexcusable for software as mature as Traktor -- Serato has shown us that this can actually be done right. |
Matt Kane
15.05.2013 | i might know what ni will come up with next. but i also might not.it |
Kellie Myrum
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by DirtyNerd
Agreed. Frankly, I don't see WHY it would require that being tied to hardware at all. I don't mind if they want to sell a new controller that has that functionality built in, hell i'd probably buy the ting, but I don't really see a need to actually lock it down.
Off course, I can't know for sure if they will put a lock in there or not but I said that because I wouldn't find myself surprised if they come up with a controller integrated to an isolator FX.
I have an RMX1000 and love it. I also set about doing my own Inspired-by-Stewe Isolator FX mappings and I actually believe that the Traktor solution could actually be better than the RMX1000 if done well. My own basic isolator FX mapping, though not as sophisticated as Setwe's, actually works very nicely and creates very nice subtle to not-so-subtle sounds.
Cool! I'd love to see some short demo vid of your mapping if you don't mind doing that for me.
My only issue is that I have yet to come up with good "Release FX" that work by just pressing a button.
I made a mode in my CNTRL:R ultimate tool which has build/brake/release effect feature mapped in there. TTFX, Laser Slicer and Transpose are effects I've been using as kill-release function. I'm in the route on doing such mapping for the MIDIfighter Spectra BTW. |
Johnsie Kingrea
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by DirtyNerd
Agreed. Frankly, I don't see WHY it would require that being tied to hardware at all. I don't mind if they want to sell a new controller that has that functionality built in, hell i'd probably buy the ting, but I don't really see a need to actually lock it down.
I have an RMX1000 and love it. I also set about doing my own Inspired-by-Stewe Isolator FX mappings and I actually believe that the Traktor solution could actually be better than the RMX1000 if done well. My own basic isolator FX mapping, though not as sophisticated as Setwe's, actually works very nicely and creates very nice subtle to not-so-subtle sounds.
My only issue is that I have yet to come up with good "Release FX" that work by just pressing a button.
I actually it have a few fx mapped to my dicer that give you instant gratification comparable to the Rmx 1000. I was inspired by their release fx and I managed to map a great turntable stop that kills the music and resets any effect you were using before. I plan to release the mapping once I've ironed out some kinks |
Leota Dolney
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by Stewe
Isolator yes but without new hardware please. We don't want Isolator mappings to come locked down eh...
Agreed. Frankly, I don't see WHY it would require that being tied to hardware at all. I don't mind if they want to sell a new controller that has that functionality built in, hell i'd probably buy the ting, but I don't really see a need to actually lock it down.
I have an RMX1000 and love it. I also set about doing my own Inspired-by-Stewe Isolator FX mappings and I actually believe that the Traktor solution could actually be better than the RMX1000 if done well. My own basic isolator FX mapping, though not as sophisticated as Setwe's, actually works very nicely and creates very nice subtle to not-so-subtle sounds.
My only issue is that I have yet to come up with good "Release FX" that work by just pressing a button. |
Kellie Myrum
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by aseckel
+1 for a creatively designed dedicated FX controller.
I imagine essentially a controller-only RMX1000, but with control over 2 FX units (C+D for those with say an S2/4 or only 1 X1) - introduce isolator FX in a corresponding Traktor software update, as well as custom Macro FX 1 knobs, and perhaps the ability to have 3 macro FX in 1 FX unit with one master D/W.
Since it would be only a controller it could be considerably less expensive than the RMX1000 and be marketed to everyone who wants that same control ability in a sexy package (instead of doing it with an LPD8 or Nanopad/knob etc and heaps of mappings, for instance) but doesn't want to fork out the money for Pio gear.
Just a thought though/something I would be interested in...maybe it's just time for a second x1 for me though =P
Isolator yes but without new hardware please. We don't want Isolator mappings to come locked down eh... |
Leota Dolney
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by jdownesbaird
Sorry, wasn't really trying to talk about the business model. The original topic was about future hardware releases by NI, so I do believe it's relevant to discuss the FUNCTIONAL advantages of "locking down" the hardware in upcoming releases. I was responding to the comment that "locked down limitations make them terrible controllers functionally", while I believe it's quite the opposite.
I'm not advocating for one or the other, necessarily, but my speculation is that NI will continue to release hardware that exclusively takes advantage of new Traktor features, and that this isn't always an absolutely horrible thing from the perspective of the user. You know everything works super-tight right out of the box, and that the hardware is specifically optimized for that particular software. I believe NI will keep leveraging this formula with future products.
To a certain extent, this is true. Nobody is complaining about pioneer making software (e.g., Rekordbox or their firmware) that is very tightly tied to their hardware and unusable by other competitors.
But, like the mods say...lets get back on topic. |
Leota Dolney
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by padi_04
There are already other threads discussing NHL and "NI's business model", please use those. BACK OT
Thank you. |
Delena Katherman
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by padi_04
There are already other threads discussing NHL and "NI's business model", please use those. BACK OT
Sorry, wasn't really trying to talk about the business model. The original topic was about future hardware releases by NI, so I do believe it's relevant to discuss the FUNCTIONAL advantages of "locking down" the hardware in upcoming releases. I was responding to the comment that "locked down limitations make them terrible controllers functionally", while I believe it's quite the opposite.
I'm not advocating for one or the other, necessarily, but my speculation is that NI will continue to release hardware that exclusively takes advantage of new Traktor features, and that this isn't always an absolutely horrible thing from the perspective of the user. You know everything works super-tight right out of the box, and that the hardware is specifically optimized for that particular software. I believe NI will keep leveraging this formula with future products. |
Jetta Drenzek
16.05.2013 | I still want one of those. The most ridiculous looking thing I have ever seen, and that's pretty much why I want it! |
Nedra Fresneda
16.05.2013 | What? You guys thought the future of DJing involved some sort of fancy touchscreen? That mouse is all you need to get your wiki wiki on. |
Matt Kane
16.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Ed Paris gains +3 troll skill
troll skills? i don |
Kellie Myrum
15.05.2013 | |
Doreen Schurle
15.05.2013 |
Ed Paris gains +3 troll skill |
Lorri Bobar
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by Ed Paris
i might know what ni will come up with next. but i also might not. it |
Danae Dumler
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by diezdiazgiant
Man fuck new controllers just give me some library management that doesn't make me wish I was using serato.
And before anyone goes flaming me believeing I'm a serato fan boy trolling, I use both and maintain a library for both, and there some annoying faults in traktors library management
^^^^100% agree with this. I already have more cheap controllers than I need; even if NI opened up remix decks I'd still have enough buttons and knobs left over to fight the next fucking war on terrorism. I love Traktor but between the library and the controller manager it feels like I'm editing spreadsheets rather than playing music. I realize Controller Manager is a taller order to fix but some basic controls could make things a lot easier. But the library is inexcusable for software as mature as Traktor -- Serato has shown us that this can actually be done right. |
Matt Kane
15.05.2013 | i might know what ni will come up with next. but i also might not.it |
Kellie Myrum
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by DirtyNerd
Agreed. Frankly, I don't see WHY it would require that being tied to hardware at all. I don't mind if they want to sell a new controller that has that functionality built in, hell i'd probably buy the ting, but I don't really see a need to actually lock it down.
Off course, I can't know for sure if they will put a lock in there or not but I said that because I wouldn't find myself surprised if they come up with a controller integrated to an isolator FX.
I have an RMX1000 and love it. I also set about doing my own Inspired-by-Stewe Isolator FX mappings and I actually believe that the Traktor solution could actually be better than the RMX1000 if done well. My own basic isolator FX mapping, though not as sophisticated as Setwe's, actually works very nicely and creates very nice subtle to not-so-subtle sounds.
Cool! I'd love to see some short demo vid of your mapping if you don't mind doing that for me.
My only issue is that I have yet to come up with good "Release FX" that work by just pressing a button.
I made a mode in my CNTRL:R ultimate tool which has build/brake/release effect feature mapped in there. TTFX, Laser Slicer and Transpose are effects I've been using as kill-release function. I'm in the route on doing such mapping for the MIDIfighter Spectra BTW. |
Johnsie Kingrea
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by DirtyNerd
Agreed. Frankly, I don't see WHY it would require that being tied to hardware at all. I don't mind if they want to sell a new controller that has that functionality built in, hell i'd probably buy the ting, but I don't really see a need to actually lock it down.
I have an RMX1000 and love it. I also set about doing my own Inspired-by-Stewe Isolator FX mappings and I actually believe that the Traktor solution could actually be better than the RMX1000 if done well. My own basic isolator FX mapping, though not as sophisticated as Setwe's, actually works very nicely and creates very nice subtle to not-so-subtle sounds.
My only issue is that I have yet to come up with good "Release FX" that work by just pressing a button.
I actually it have a few fx mapped to my dicer that give you instant gratification comparable to the Rmx 1000. I was inspired by their release fx and I managed to map a great turntable stop that kills the music and resets any effect you were using before. I plan to release the mapping once I've ironed out some kinks |
Leota Dolney
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by Stewe
Isolator yes but without new hardware please. We don't want Isolator mappings to come locked down eh...
Agreed. Frankly, I don't see WHY it would require that being tied to hardware at all. I don't mind if they want to sell a new controller that has that functionality built in, hell i'd probably buy the ting, but I don't really see a need to actually lock it down.
I have an RMX1000 and love it. I also set about doing my own Inspired-by-Stewe Isolator FX mappings and I actually believe that the Traktor solution could actually be better than the RMX1000 if done well. My own basic isolator FX mapping, though not as sophisticated as Setwe's, actually works very nicely and creates very nice subtle to not-so-subtle sounds.
My only issue is that I have yet to come up with good "Release FX" that work by just pressing a button. |
Kellie Myrum
15.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by aseckel
+1 for a creatively designed dedicated FX controller.
I imagine essentially a controller-only RMX1000, but with control over 2 FX units (C+D for those with say an S2/4 or only 1 X1) - introduce isolator FX in a corresponding Traktor software update, as well as custom Macro FX 1 knobs, and perhaps the ability to have 3 macro FX in 1 FX unit with one master D/W.
Since it would be only a controller it could be considerably less expensive than the RMX1000 and be marketed to everyone who wants that same control ability in a sexy package (instead of doing it with an LPD8 or Nanopad/knob etc and heaps of mappings, for instance) but doesn't want to fork out the money for Pio gear.
Just a thought though/something I would be interested in...maybe it's just time for a second x1 for me though =P
Isolator yes but without new hardware please. We don't want Isolator mappings to come locked down eh... |
Norbert Thysell
16.05.2013 | +1 for a creatively designed dedicated FX controller.
I imagine essentially a controller-only RMX1000, but with control over 2 FX units (C+D for those with say an S2/4 or only 1 X1) - introduce isolator FX in a corresponding Traktor software update, as well as custom Macro FX 1 knobs, and perhaps the ability to have 3 macro FX in 1 FX unit with one master D/W.
Since it would be only a controller it could be considerably less expensive than the RMX1000 and be marketed to everyone who wants that same control ability in a sexy package (instead of doing it with an LPD8 or Nanopad/knob etc and heaps of mappings, for instance) but doesn't want to fork out the money for Pio gear.
Just a thought though/something I would be interested in...maybe it's just time for a second x1 for me though =P |
Alphonso Deitchman
13.05.2013 | All you ever need from a screen are waveforms and track browsing, so I believe the existing TDJ app would work fine if they added integration with an updated X1/S2/S4. |
Sylvia Narra
13.05.2013 | To me, the traktor app really feels like a toy or game. I'm hoping for some real integration between the app and hardware in the future. Sadly, I believe this would be impossible without either redesigning the app itself to make it more like the UI of Traktor 2.6 or having an alternate version once a controller is plugged in.
I would also love an update to the S4 (but that's purely from a selfish want to upgrade point of view) |
Rochel Gleese
13.05.2013 | If they come our with a good platter controller, i'll buy three |
Johnsie Kingrea
13.05.2013 | NI's hardware releases are very tied to new software functions. So I feel if you're going to speculate on new hardware that also means speculating on what you believe NI will do with Traktor software in the future. One of the features that was asked about in the recent Traktor email survey was polyphonic playback with the F1 (i'm assuming this meant multiple clips playing per slot). This isn't really going to result in new hardware but velocity sensitivity was also mentioned as a potential feature that you could request for in the survey. So maybe they could launch another F1 that has velocity sensitivity which would lend itself to a Maschine style deck in Traktor.
I believe they really nailed the hardware software combo with Maschine. I'd love to see future products integrate a similar model. Imagine Maschine like screens on future mixers that could tell you what FX are loaded, see the waveform on screen (scrolling would be bad ass but then we're talking a CDJ 2000 which could get pricey. Browse capabilities on the screen would be awesome too. I believe anything that allows you to interact with the laptop less is great, hell even the simple Loop size screen on the Z2 and S4 makes a huge difference. |
Leota Dolney
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by jdownesbaird
Sorry, wasn't really trying to talk about the business model. The original topic was about future hardware releases by NI, so I do believe it's relevant to discuss the FUNCTIONAL advantages of "locking down" the hardware in upcoming releases. I was responding to the comment that "locked down limitations make them terrible controllers functionally", while I believe it's quite the opposite.
I'm not advocating for one or the other, necessarily, but my speculation is that NI will continue to release hardware that exclusively takes advantage of new Traktor features, and that this isn't always an absolutely horrible thing from the perspective of the user. You know everything works super-tight right out of the box, and that the hardware is specifically optimized for that particular software. I believe NI will keep leveraging this formula with future products.
To a certain extent, this is true. Nobody is complaining about pioneer making software (e.g., Rekordbox or their firmware) that is very tightly tied to their hardware and unusable by other competitors.
But, like the mods say...lets get back on topic. |
Leota Dolney
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by padi_04
There are already other threads discussing NHL and "NI's business model", please use those. BACK OT
Thank you. |
Delena Katherman
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by padi_04
There are already other threads discussing NHL and "NI's business model", please use those. BACK OT
Sorry, wasn't really trying to talk about the business model. The original topic was about future hardware releases by NI, so I do believe it's relevant to discuss the FUNCTIONAL advantages of "locking down" the hardware in upcoming releases. I was responding to the comment that "locked down limitations make them terrible controllers functionally", while I believe it's quite the opposite.
I'm not advocating for one or the other, necessarily, but my speculation is that NI will continue to release hardware that exclusively takes advantage of new Traktor features, and that this isn't always an absolutely horrible thing from the perspective of the user. You know everything works super-tight right out of the box, and that the hardware is specifically optimized for that particular software. I believe NI will keep leveraging this formula with future products. |
Nedra Fresneda
12.05.2013 | There are already other threads discussing NHL and "NI's business model", please use those. BACK OT |
Delena Katherman
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by octostout
The "exclusive features" given to NI's garbage hardware are only exclusive by choice, and the insane locked-down limitations make them terrible controllers functionally, not just when ti comes to build quality, and this is NOT something that should be praised.
How do the "locked-down limitations make them terrible controllers functionally"? I understand if people are frustrated that they feel forced to purchase these controllers to get full functionality, but once you purchase them you get just that: full functionality. That's the actual advantage of this model to the user. They remove some of your options and make you buy one of their proprietary controllers, BUT you then get super tight control over the latest features.
It's been mentioned already, but the Apple analogy really does apply here. There is always a tradeoff, and NI's decision to "lock down" features is not an issue for people who actually do like the products and appreciate the out-of-box 1 to 1 functionality. |
Leota Dolney
13.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by octostout
Seriously... My mind boggles at the idea that this guy is in the EXTREME minority on this community
, of people who understand this.
The "exclusive features" given to NI's garbage hardware are only exclusive by choice, and the insane locked-down limitations make them terrible controllers functionally, not just when ti comes to build quality, and this is NOT something that should be praised.
Good. Point taken. Let's move off of this and try to get the thread back on track. |
Kathe Stump
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
I'm not looking for an argument, just pointing out that NI's business decisions disguised as features are not something to be praised. It's not debatable as there is nothing that any of their controllers can do that is beyond the capabilities of MIDI.
Seriously... My mind boggles at the idea that this guy is in the EXTREME minority on this community
, of people who understand this.
The "exclusive features" given to NI's garbage hardware are only exclusive by choice, and the insane locked-down limitations make them terrible controllers functionally, not just when ti comes to build quality, and this is NOT something that should be praised. |
Leota Dolney
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
I'm not looking for an argument, just pointing out that NI's business decisions disguised as features are not something to be praised. It's not debatable as there is nothing that any of their controllers can do that is beyond the capabilities of MIDI.
No problem. Thank you for your opinion. FYI, I wasn't trying to either praise or bash NI...just stating something...perhaps saying "improving" and "shortfall" had loaded meanings. if that bothered you, I apologize for that. I believe we can simply leave it that they chose something other than MIDI for their own internal reasons of which we are not privy to. We can assume that they are likely a combination of technical and business and possibly other factors that we don't know about.
In either way, that issue is not relevant to the thread, so let's move off it and focus on the pointless fun of speculating wildly about things that will undoubtedly turn out to be wrong. |
Alphonso Deitchman
12.05.2013 | I'm not looking for an argument, just pointing out that NI's business decisions disguised as features are not something to be praised. It's not debatable as there is nothing that any of their controllers can do that is beyond the capabilities of MIDI. |
Leota Dolney
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
There are no particular "shortfalls" with MIDI. Vestax has proven that through Serato. Their "native" protocol is just a way of locking out the competition as they can't/won't match the quality of hardware coming from more experienced companies. Exactly the same applies to the F1. It does nothing that a basic 4x4 pad controller with some knobs and faders can't do.
If they hadn't used their proprietary lockout system, all the NI controllers would probably work through Traktor DJ now..
I don't want to derail this thread with another argument. So perhaps shortfall is not an appropriate word. I agree that from a performance stand point MIDI can perform perfectly well and is very rich and featured. But from a protocol point of view, there are certain things that it can't do very easily or efficiently (or at all) and are more easily done using a proprietary protocol. That should clearly be beyond debate. Whether any of the things MIDI can't do easily are necessary, relevant etc or whether any of that is the case with, for example, the F1...is debatable and everyone will have their opinions, but lets keep that discussion out of this thread as there are plenty of other threads where that can be discussed.
Similarly, whether the MIDI vs proprietary issue is not only a technical issue but also a business decision to lock-out competition is a separate (though related) issue and not one that I care to discuss as it has been done to death and is nothing but fodder for another flame war and I would prefer to keep this thread focused on feature and product speculation. |
Leota Dolney
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by padi_04
I know you guys can do better . The rest of the thread can be cleaned once we get back on track.
Thank you! |
Alphonso Deitchman
12.05.2013 |
Originally Posted by DirtyNerd
NI is a software company...they developed Traktor and eventually decided to branch out to create dedicated controllers for their software...they "improved" on the MIDI shortfalls with their native comm protocol between their controllers and Traktor...by all accounts, this was very well-received; the X1 is hugely popular and (build-quality discussions aside) so is the S4.
NI saw benefit in tighter Hardware and software integration (e.g., the F1) and in developing some nice dedicated hardware like the Z2.
There are no particular "shortfalls" with MIDI. Vestax has proven that through Serato. Their "native" protocol is just a way of locking out the competition as they can't/won't match the quality of hardware coming from more experienced companies. Exactly the same applies to the F1. It does nothing that a basic 4x4 pad controller with some knobs and faders can't do.
If they hadn't used their proprietary lockout system, all the NI controllers would probably work through Traktor DJ now.. |
