Hardwell DJ set at Ultra! or was he actually DJ'ing.

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Hardwell DJ set at Ultra! or was he actually DJ'ing.
Posted on: 21.03.2013 by Suzi Werrell
Hardwell, the most recent winner of the IDMA for best european DJ and best remixer, posted a pic by rukes today on his instagram, facebook, and twitter accounts. The first thing I noticed was that 3 out of 4 decks are completely visible and show absolutely no tracks loaded in them. The time of the picture looks about 3/4s of the way through his set because of the low sunlight and if you watched the video of his set it was sunny for the first 40 minutes or so. Any CDJ owner knows that the decks only look the way they do in the pic when you power on the player or eject the source of your music whether it be CD, USB, SD, or Link. And there is no reason to do any of the in the middle of a set at Ultra Music Festival. Basically, I believe he premixed his set which is disappointing considering the awards he has just won. However, I still respect him as a Producer/DJ and dont want to take away from his reputation but I just wish he would have put more effort into a set like Ultra because I know everyone on this community would kill for a spot on that stage and we would do it the right way mixing live on the spot.

Heres the pic and Link:
http://photo.rukes.com/umf13b/slides/umf13b_096.html
umf13b_096.jpg


Let me know what you guys believe.
Valeri Holderness
10.04.2013
Originally Posted by Era 7
from the comments:






backspins equal creative genius these days?
LOL

Its exactly because of this that even if they are faking a set it doesn't really matter, because the live set that they would play would require basically no skill.
Doreen Schurle
10.04.2013
Originally Posted by Student
Well, after this topic and all the heated discussions it brought forward I couldn't go and not post this. Check it out around 37:50.

PA failure. If you listen carefully you can hear that the music is still playing on the stage monitors. That's the fault of the organizers, not the DJ.
Trula Willadsen
10.04.2013		Well, after this topic and all the heated discussions it brought forward I couldn't go and not post this. Check it out around 37:50.

Vada Branyon
31.03.2013		I know a masked duo that sold their tour as being live but it was all prerecorded to match the light show.

:P
Johnetta Olewine
31.03.2013		Where are these transitions that are "impossible to do live"?

Also I read that blog article which said this:

from orchestral to trance to big room to progressive to melodic to dubstep. That
Latoria Kavulich
30.03.2013		sounds like that whole show is the dj equivalent of autotune.
Cindie Somoza
29.03.2013		All this talk of 'perfection' is what makes new born babies cry throughout the evening . Bands practice for years and still make mistakes, why? Because if we become perfect, we stop evolving, then we become a machine, out-dated and useless, just like the technology we throw out on a day-to-day basis now.

The greatest thing about the human race, is our inability to be perfect.

Complexity is another complete fallacy tied with becoming an 'amazing' artist... The Beatles where treated like god's and I'm fairly sure I could fart most of their melodies.

These puppets and they're dazed and confused money-laundering puppeteers need to be eradicated like the vermin they are.

If you believe that you're achieving perfection, you've simply succumbed to a useless piece of obsolete technology, well done.
Gaynell Rydberg
29.03.2013		Didn't even bother reading the comments.

Some of his transitions were just impossible to do live. Way too complex. That's what made it sound so epic though.
Tesha Freudenstein
29.03.2013
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
I found this amusing.

http://www.dancingastronaut.com/2013...al-favorite-2/
from the comments:
Also the spinbacks, such a great way to transition out of a track, especially with all of the dramatic dropouts and buildups of the music he plays.
So many main stage DJs have absolutely no creativity in their mixing. Its so refreshing to see someone on the main stage transition with a spinback, you almost never see that anymore.


backspins equal creative genius these days?
Gaynell Rydberg
30.03.2013		I found this amusing.

http://www.dancingastronaut.com/2013...al-favorite-2/
Lilliana Perris
26.03.2013
Originally Posted by deevey
I thought it was just the music that sounded shite :P

YEAH!!!! That too!!!

Damn....it was bad tho...trap....trap...trainwreck.

Dont you just fade the break or chop to the drop?

CDJ2000's can do that right?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Rolanda Clodfelder
26.03.2013
Like I said before....Skrillex messes up ALL the time at Big Shows.
I thought it was just the music that sounded shite :P
Lilliana Perris
27.03.2013		Nope...I could mention more.

Its the HUGE HUGE shows that tend to do this. The multi day festivals....
The top outfits playing *they shall remain nameless...but you all know exactly who I am on about* are lazy fucks exploiting the scene...changing it into a concert or show. Where punters come for the decor....shyte music...too see all the other hipster teen crowd....you get my drift.

They are the ones on tour playing everyevening , the same set.....and with it goes a MASSSSIVE light show tra laa laa.
These guys then press play and repeat all the way till the tour is done.

These top knobs are also known as sell outs to some purists.
You seen all the pics of them jamming with their gear off n shit? Same folks innit?

I will rather respect a DJ that played for real and trainwrecked...than a guy that faked it.
Simple.

I understand you are talking about your average punter....who just wants a good perfect event for the $ they spending.
But these are the exact ones that have been trained to rather do what they do at these parties than keep it real.
Its after the fact...they are the result.

The cause is the cunts that will force the artists to fake it and those that comply.
Trula Willadsen
26.03.2013
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
You're implying sets need to be absolutely flawless perfect or the festival organizers will lose money and everything is under a magnifying glass. That's not true at all- people big mess up all the time on big stages, it's not the end of the world and most people like to see some sort of human element and a mistake every once in a while is kind of a relief. If some DJ slightly trainwrecks on the main stage at Ultra people aren't going to turn around and walk out the gates and not buy Ultra tickets next year.
What I'm trying to imply is that I understand the need for the very big names to deliver a perfect set. If you're on the top of your game a mistake will be noticed and even though the fans won't care (that much) it is possible that it will affect others. I don't say a festival would go bankrupt, but I do understand the difference in pressure or entertaining 500 tot 5.000 people up to the 50.000 or so that are there?

Also, some of the transitions he does aren't possible to do live. So yeah, that makes the transition fake, but if it sounds awesome, who cares? The transition with Numb and Cannonball for example is impossible to do live I guess (but do correct me if I'm wrong) so he does it premixed. Saves him the effort on stage but he still made the effort in the studio to entertain us. And in the end, isn't that what all people want to be when they go there?

@sarasin; I get your remark, but it's the same as saying that just because we can buy a automatic transmission in a car, we shouldn't, because some racecar drivers shift (semi-)manually. Or something like that.
Gaynell Rydberg
26.03.2013		Even with Avicii's "fuck up" people are still going to return to Ultra.
Romelia Stankard
26.03.2013
Originally Posted by Student
How was this the dumbest thing you've read in a while? I respect your opinion as I'm fairly new here and you're not, but still. Think about it from the investors perspective before you answer that. That your personal perception is that faking doesn't belong on the main-stage that's ok, but it's still the current truth, whether people on here like it or not.
You're implying sets need to be absolutely flawless perfect or the festival organizers will lose money and everything is under a magnifying glass. That's not true at all- people big mess up all the time on big stages, it's not the end of the world and most people like to see some sort of human element and a mistake every once in a while is kind of a relief. If some DJ slightly trainwrecks on the main stage at Ultra people aren't going to turn around and walk out the gates and not buy Ultra tickets next year.
Gaynell Rydberg
26.03.2013		Well the introduction of sync isn't supposed to dumb down DJing but to free up the DJ to do more complex mixing.

I don't know if DJs are really reading crowds anymore since most are coming in with premade playlists. Armin said he doesn't do that, but I don't know about others.
Pamella Badalov
26.03.2013
Originally Posted by sarasin
Rubbish....

Like I said before....Skrillex messes up ALL the time at Big Shows.
Hows he different than the rest?
The OP and this thread is a bit depressing since I sort of accidentally stumbled on to the Ultra live stream the first weekend.

Quick intro: I'm new here, but I've been a big fan of dance music (not a DJ) since the late 80's in one way or another, off-and-on -- sometimes going years without listening to it. I'm on an up cycle right now and with a comfortable, well-paying 9-to-5 I have been researching what it takes to make my own music (for personal consumption). I've been scouring every article of info I can find about gear , play styles, custom original sound packs, logistics, the "DJ industry", etc. While, at first blush, it might appear like I'm jumping on the EDM/Festival/Dance Music surge that (apparently) has exploded over the last 4-5 years, I've been listening to it for about 25 years.

With my admitted novice about the DJ industry stated, one argument seems to persist across the many, many different sources I've run into and it has to do with HOW the music is created as opposed to the impact of the music itself. I have a few questions, and please interpret them as intellectually honest questions. I don't know the answers but would like to hear opinions for curiosity's sake.

Is it possible the animosity toward DJ's who pre-mix large chunks of music in preparation for a big show versus those who do it completely on the fly is seen as the "dumbing down" of DJ skill and beat-matching / track selection that would have happened 10 years ago? In my bread-n-butter world, the only equivalent I have to draw from is the "dumbing down of Windows (computers)" to the point where any schmuck with a book or two can basically do the same job that took me 1000's hours of trial, error, and real-world screw-ups to learn in the early days. I'm willing to be wrong here, but it seems to me the skill required to be a professional DJ is as much, if not more, about "reading" one's crowd as it is getting the functional mechanics correct and training one's ear for the microscopic variances of sync'ing.

Next question, I understand (now, anyway) that the DJ field has become unbelievably competitive thanks to the ease of library acquisition and the advances of digitization. Is it possible that the drama among professionals is due to the highly competitive nature of your industry?



Sorry to barge in with a book on my first post, but this was an interesting enough topic for me to engage.

Back to lurking.
Lilliana Perris
26.03.2013
Originally Posted by Student
How was this the dumbest thing you've read in a while? I respect your opinion as I'm fairly new here and you're not, but still. Think about it from the investors perspective before you answer that. That your personal perception is that faking doesn't belong on the main-stage that's ok, but it's still the current truth, whether people on here like it or not.
Rubbish....

Like I said before....Skrillex messes up ALL the time at Big Shows.
Hows he different than the rest?
Trula Willadsen
25.03.2013
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.
How was this the dumbest thing you've read in a while? I respect your opinion as I'm fairly new here and you're not, but still. Think about it from the investors perspective before you answer that. That your personal perception is that faking doesn't belong on the main-stage that's ok, but it's still the current truth, whether people on here like it or not.
Romelia Stankard
25.03.2013
Originally Posted by Student
Oh wait you're a promotor with millions invested in this festival. Let's take the risk a DJ (deliberately or not) messes up his set. That's what everyone's waiting for indeed.

If you're playing for such a large crowd there is no room for error. It's not like you're in a normal club where people don't care for an error or two (and every DJ makes errors now and then). If that means that he has to make a prerecorded one hour set then so be it. Don't forget, lots of artists playback as well. Most people don't care, they are just happy as long as the artist is there. Nothing different from this.
This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.
Rolanda Clodfelder
25.03.2013		Unless they are dead, its a live show
Augustine Mitzen
25.03.2013
Originally Posted by sumthinjumpin
i don't get out as much as i used to, but if i do go out and see a band, dj or comedian, i expect them to perform their work as live as technically possible.

Not doing so is just being downrihght rude to the punters.

I am the general public and i do care.

the more it becomes the acccepted norm to pretend to be doing what you are being paid to do, the more worthless the people who do it are making their art.

Yes thair have been mimics and such before, but it doesn't make it right, the fact the odd screw up gets through just makes the whole thing tangible.
amen
Rick Campora
24.03.2013		I don't get out as much as I used to, but if I do go out and see a band, DJ or comedian, I expect them to perform their work as live as technically possible.

Not doing so is just being downrihght rude to the punters.

I am the general public and I do care.

The more it becomes the acccepted norm to pretend to be doing what you are being paid to do, the more worthless the people who do it are making their art.

Yes thair have been mimics and such before, but it doesn't make it right, the fact the odd screw up gets through just makes the whole thing tangible.
Latina Samon
24.03.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
So learn how to perform your productions live... there's nothing to stop someone like Hardwell setting up a Maschine or Ableton controller on stage and performing his latest track LIVE. If the audience actually knew that he basically stuck a CD in and hit play, they'd be furious.

.
I'm not sticking up for them, just saying that it doesn't work like that. They make most of their money from the gigs they get off the back of their producing, rather than the producing itself.
Rolanda Clodfelder
23.03.2013
[*]Kids have been getting duped by assholes since the 60s.
Assholes that have been quite happy Making Their Millions, along with their respective Labels, Management, Venues, Countless numbers of people they employ. And their Fans rarely complain.

So most everyone is pretty happy with the concept of an artist playing a faultless pre-recorded set/tracks except other Musicians and Dj's.

If the audience actually knew that he basically stuck a CD in and hit play, they'd be furious.
I believe you give the majority of the public too much credit.

Most people go to an event, well....just to be at the event (with the exception of some exceptional Dance music / rock or vocal artists).


Just to emphasize the point - I'll quote another thread here...


Originally Posted by Ryan Ruel
LOL. Those guys were completely caught fake DJ'ing here in Boston. Take a look at this little nugget and see if you can figure out what is wrong:

I don't see the crowd rioting even though its obvious they aren't playing live do you ?
Doreen Schurle
23.03.2013
Originally Posted by KS2
The thing is, the big bookings come off the back of producing, most of the time anyway. If people like their tracks they want to see them, if a track gets big then promoters take notice and know people pay to do so.
So yeah, you might get residencies and the like from ability but big bookings, maybe not. It makes sense from the promoter's view when you believe about it.
So learn how to perform your productions live... there's nothing to stop someone like Hardwell setting up a Maschine or Ableton controller on stage and performing his latest track LIVE. If the audience actually knew that he basically stuck a CD in and hit play, they'd be furious.

And as for whether or not they'd be entitled to a refund, I suppose that depends on how the performance was advertised... if it was referred to as a "live performance" or "performing live" or anything similar by the promoters, then - at least in the UK, and probably the US - there'd be grounds under Trading Standards laws to demand a refund.

Originally Posted by deevey
[*]Kids have been going to see pre-recorded Pop stars since the 60's.
[*]Kids have been getting duped by assholes since the 60s.

There, fixed that for you.
Gaynell Rydberg
24.03.2013
Originally Posted by KS2
The thing is, the big bookings come off the back of producing, most of the time anyway. If people like their tracks they want to see them, if a track gets big then promoters take notice and know people pay to do so.
So yeah, you might get residencies and the like from ability but big bookings, maybe not. It makes sense from the promoter's view when you believe about it.
Hit it on the spot. The difference between them and us is that they are producing lots of tracks whereas most of us are just DJing which (let's be honest) the average person doesn't care for.
Rolanda Clodfelder
24.03.2013
What Hardwell (and any other "DJ" who does this *cough* Guetta *cough*) is doing is essentially taking jobs away from those of us that actually BOTHER to mix.
if you can fill a 20k or 30k arena due to your populartity, he's taking a job away from you, if not, he isn't

Yawn!
  • Kids have been going to see pre-recorded Pop stars since the 60's.
  • DJ's are now Pop Stars
  • Artists who do not fake it have always ranted about other artists faking it
  • General Public Do not care and just want to see the artist "there"


[/end]

Yes, I know we're not famous, but people should be booked based on their ability not on their name alone.
If that was the case the presidents, prime misters, bank CEO's etc ...etc ..................rant rant rant

If the show looked good from Front of House to the people who paid, who cares really ?
Latina Samon
23.03.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
What Hardwell (and any other "DJ" who does this *cough* Guetta *cough*) is doing is essentially taking jobs away from those of us that actually BOTHER to mix. Yes, I know we're not famous, but people should be booked based on their ability not on their name alone.
The thing is, the big bookings come off the back of producing, most of the time anyway. If people like their tracks they want to see them, if a track gets big then promoters take notice and know people pay to do so.
So yeah, you might get residencies and the like from ability but big bookings, maybe not. It makes sense from the promoter's view when you believe about it.
Judi Sissel
23.03.2013		I wonder if this would be acceptable grounds for a refund.
Latoria Kavulich
23.03.2013		absolutely zero respect to anyone that pulls this shit, i don't care how famous they are. not that i'd be caught dead at a show like this but if i was there and saw someone doing this, i'd be taking my ticket price out of their ass backstage after the show.
Doreen Schurle
22.03.2013		I was talking about this with our Friday evening resident toevening , and I was telling him that I can't understand why more DJs aren't REALLY pissed off about this.

What Hardwell (and any other "DJ" who does this *cough* Guetta *cough*) is doing is essentially taking jobs away from those of us that actually BOTHER to mix. Yes, I know we're not famous, but people should be booked based on their ability not on their name alone. If these guys want to be producers as well as DJs, that's fine, but don't start believeing you can just pretend to DJ while putting on a megamix.

It's like that scandal a decade ago where Top Of The Pops got in trouble for letting their acts mime/pretend to play pre-recorded stuff. They implemented a policy where at least the lead singer/band member HAD to sing/play live. I don't see why festivals should do anything differently. If Hardwell - or any other acts - aren't capable of doing their pre-arranged stuff like, then they don't get to play, simples.

Maybe then we'd actually see decent DJs turning up to festivals with Kontrol F1s, Maschines, MidiFighters or Ableton Pushes then. I mean Christ, even Little Boots sets her Tenori-On up on stage every time she performs.
Latoria Kavulich
22.03.2013		agreed. have not watched the video but if the set was pre recorded that dude is a total scumbag.
Nedra Fresneda
22.03.2013
Originally Posted by Student
Oh wait you're a promotor with millions invested in this festival. Let's take the risk a DJ (deliberately or not) messes up his set. That's what everyone's waiting for indeed.

If you're playing for such a large crowd there is no room for error. It's not like you're in a normal club where people don't care for an error or two (and every DJ makes errors now and then). If that means that he has to make a prerecorded one hour set then so be it. Don't forget, lots of artists playback as well. Most people don't care, they are just happy as long as the artist is there. Nothing different from this.
They should stop booking bands at festivals then....

It's a LIVE show, there is nothing wrong with it not being 100% flawless.
Libbie Orion
22.03.2013		in case some of you didnt know
this is a common practice lately with some festival appearing djs when

its a question of being able to actually attend due to bookings
its a question of everything going to pot because of possible weather conditions
if the festival is going to be streamed live which means there songs the producer (can / cant) play.

Im not saying i know everything. Im just saying, i have spoken to a few "big names" at the Electric Zoo festival in NYC over the past couple years and this basically sums of the responses.
Judi Sissel
22.03.2013		Ecstasy + Ultra = Self Promotion and Releases. Even though most won't agree with it... it's gonna happen.
Latina Samon
22.03.2013
Originally Posted by Student
Oh wait you're a promotor with millions invested in this festival. Let's take the risk a DJ (deliberately or not) messes up his set. That's what everyone's waiting for indeed.

If you're playing for such a large crowd there is no room for error. It's not like you're in a normal club where people don't care for an error or two (and every DJ makes errors now and then). If that means that he has to make a prerecorded one hour set then so be it. Don't forget, lots of artists playback as well. Most people don't care, they are just happy as long as the artist is there. Nothing different from this.
No.
Lilliana Perris
22.03.2013
Originally Posted by Student
Oh wait you're a promotor with millions invested in this festival. Let's take the risk a DJ (deliberately or not) messes up his set. That's what everyone's waiting for indeed.

If you're playing for such a large crowd there is no room for error. It's not like you're in a normal club where people don't care for an error or two (and every DJ makes errors now and then). If that means that he has to make a prerecorded one hour set then so be it. Don't forget, lots of artists playback as well. Most people don't care, they are just happy as long as the artist is there. Nothing different from this.

Really?

mmm...strange....as Skrillex F's Up all the time. His shows are huge right?
How come he isn't pre-recording?

In fact, he messed up about 5 times at his show here a few weeks back. He even acknowledged them!
Trula Willadsen
22.03.2013		Oh wait you're a promotor with millions invested in this festival. Let's take the risk a DJ (deliberately or not) messes up his set. That's what everyone's waiting for indeed.

If you're playing for such a large crowd there is no room for error. It's not like you're in a normal club where people don't care for an error or two (and every DJ makes errors now and then). If that means that he has to make a prerecorded one hour set then so be it. Don't forget, lots of artists playback as well. Most people don't care, they are just happy as long as the artist is there. Nothing different from this.

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