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Unlocking the Maschine Studio Screens

Home :: General Discussion :: Unlocking the Maschine Studio ScreensReply

Unlocking the Maschine Studio Screens Posted on: 16.10.2013 by Lannie Kutay So I would like to dedicate this thread to unlocking the potential of the maschine studio to be a traktor powerhouse! I know we don't have much to go on right now, and obviously the maschine studio can be midi mapped to traktor. But getting waveforms to display on the screens is a whole different animal. I am currently in talks with a local coder to try to reverse engineer Traktor Scratch Pro to get waveforms to display on the screens. I'm sure you can see the potential, of not even needing to open the laptop anymore. So if anyone has any info they have come across, that might be helpful to the project, shout it out!! I cant promise this will work, but we're gonna give it a try.
Lannie Kutay 25.10.2013	Originally Posted by Karlos Santos Just for clarity and to avoid any confusion or suspicion, DJTT is one of the worlds biggest dj communities if not the biggest regarding DJ technology. It would be naive of anyone to assume that Native Instruments do not pour over these pages. They don't have someone "on this community " in the way that that statement 'could' be construed. Very true! Karlos. I never assumed NI was spying on anyone. I know that most of the people that work there are musicians or djs also. So I would expect them to be hanging out here. Would I like NI to offer me a job......um hell yeah hahaha
nayit ruiz jaramillo 25.10.2013	Originally Posted by 031999 I guess there is someone on this community , from NI. Just for clarity and to avoid any confusion or suspicion, DJTT is one of the worlds biggest dj communities if not the biggest regarding DJ technology. It would be naive of anyone to assume that Native Instruments do not pour over these pages. They don't have someone "on this community " in the way that that statement 'could' be construed.
nayit ruiz jaramillo 23.10.2013	Originally Posted by jdownesbaird Just curious: why is the attitude different when it comes to software hacks (assuming no piracy is involved)? I'm not sure any threads about hacking software have been closed. The "Ghetto Timecode" thread ran for years. I believe the premise of 'most' (not all) threads on hacking software is that it is done on already cracked software as in the case of one of the timecode hack threads where the user admitted it was a cracked version. In the case of Hackintosh threads, Admin have made it clear that that discussion is not permitted. Who wants Apple breathing down your neck? I'm not actually aware of an EULA regarding 'hardware'. My FYI (which I reiterate was just an FYI) is that the OP wanted to ask NI about doing something that I know was in breach of the EULA, therefore NI would have no interest in taking part. That was with regard to software not hardware. That distinction must be made . There was never a mention of closing this thread.
Delena Katherman 23.10.2013	Originally Posted by djspacecamp Bumping this to let you all know that unless we're specifically asked to by a company and they have a compelling reason, we will never close a thread that's attempting to hack a piece of hardware, even if it might violate EULA. We very much promote modifying gear to make it do what you want, and that's pretty much how DJTT got our start. ) Just curious: why is the attitude different when it comes to software hacks (assuming no piracy is involved)?
Ervin Calvery 21.10.2013	Originally Posted by nem0nic In any case, you're going to need to know how to write to the displays, and that's going to require the hardware - which isn't out yet. Not necessarily - I guess you would need one to test it. The software side probably doesn't keep it a secret - friends of mine figured out how to write to Push's screen before they got their hardware. Also, outside the world of DJing, screens aren't really an exciting or unusual thing, and all work more or less the same way. Originally Posted by nem0nic introducing so much latency This could be an issue. It would seem like the sort of low resolution would help allow for a fast refresh rate, but the software side could be a limiting factor, too. Originally Posted by jdownesbaird Stop giving me potential reasons to buy the Studio! I already have the MK2! That didn't stop some of us. Besides, whether or not I'll DJ using my Maschine Studio, it will get use every day.
Johnsie Kingrea 17.10.2013	Originally Posted by Shishdisma I don't believe I'll ever be able to understand this line of believeing people seem to have that Traktor and Maschine have anything to do with each other. "Still waiting on that Traktor-Maschine integration," maybe someday Numark's product development department will have a stroke and decide to "integrate" the MPC platform into a DJ workflow too? Because somewhere in their "on the record" sessions they've discussed this as being part of the road map. No one knows to what extent but that idea has been put out there.
Nancey Inderlied 17.10.2013	Originally Posted by nem0nic When was the last time you looked at the code of both Traktor and Maschine and compared them? In any case, you're going to need to know how to write to the displays, and that's going to require the hardware - which isn't out yet. And if you're assuming that NI isn't going to support the use of the Studio controller with Traktor (which is probably a safe bet), then you're also going to need to write a bit of middleware that facilitates that communication without introducing so much latency that the whole effort is counter-productive. I don't believe I'll ever be able to understand this line of believeing people seem to have that Traktor and Maschine have anything to do with each other. "Still waiting on that Traktor-Maschine integration," maybe someday Numark's product development department will have a stroke and decide to "integrate" the MPC platform into a DJ workflow too?
Lannie Kutay 17.10.2013	Originally Posted by Shishdisma Shhhhhhhh. Let them have their fun. We don't need to remind them what a proprietary protocol is, and ruin this entire thing for them outright. OP: You might want to try backtracing the user ID GUI in Traktor, it should let you hack the software, and open up the hacker menu on the Maschine. This is just advice from my lvl 3 hacker friend, he's reverse engineered Microsoft. oh nice im sure he hacked the pentagon too.... i'm not looking to get in a pissing match here guys. If your interested then stay on deck, if not just move on.
Lannie Kutay 25.10.2013	Originally Posted by Karlos Santos Just for clarity and to avoid any confusion or suspicion, DJTT is one of the worlds biggest dj communities if not the biggest regarding DJ technology. It would be naive of anyone to assume that Native Instruments do not pour over these pages. They don't have someone "on this community " in the way that that statement 'could' be construed. Very true! Karlos. I never assumed NI was spying on anyone. I know that most of the people that work there are musicians or djs also. So I would expect them to be hanging out here. Would I like NI to offer me a job......um hell yeah hahaha
nayit ruiz jaramillo 25.10.2013	Originally Posted by 031999 I guess there is someone on this community , from NI. Just for clarity and to avoid any confusion or suspicion, DJTT is one of the worlds biggest dj communities if not the biggest regarding DJ technology. It would be naive of anyone to assume that Native Instruments do not pour over these pages. They don't have someone "on this community " in the way that that statement 'could' be construed.
Lannie Kutay 24.10.2013	1. We are using Paid for versions of traktor to do this. haha I have like 3 copies from all the soundcards I bought 2. Progress as been slow, because I guess there is someone on this community , from NI. we were contacted by NI, but not with a Cease and Desist. Their letter only stated that while what we are doing is not an ABSOULTE breach of the EULA, that any project like this is only to be used for personal use, and that releasing any info to the community on how to "reverse engineer any hardware or software", would be a breach of the EULA. I have no desire to fight with NI, but we are obtaining legal advice at the moment on how to proceed.
nayit ruiz jaramillo 24.10.2013	This current 'hacking' subject always ends badly. Let's get this back on topic guys.
Alphonso Deitchman 24.10.2013	Refusing to buy an expensive sound card isn't any different to refusing to pay for software. Serato and VDJ both charge $300+ for DVS, so I doubt it was ever NI's intention to give out a full DVS setup for $120.
Delena Katherman 23.10.2013	I hear you, but I just don't agree that "hacking" the software to work with a non-certified mixer has anything to do with piracy. I bet most people that did that hack were legit buyers of Traktor who just wanted their expensive, capable mixer to work with Scratch Pro. Torrents are widely available for lots of software, and that's a choice that some people make. But, I believe some people justified this particular hack because they didn't feel like they had any other reasonable option (other than buying an expensive and redundant soundcard that their DB4/2 already had). I'm not saying that this is ethically right, but it's certainly not an entirely unreasonable justification. Anyway, sorry for getting off topic. I hope NI does release a Traktor product soon with those badass screens. I can't imagine they won't sooner or later.
nayit ruiz jaramillo 23.10.2013	Ah yeah I remember the DB4/2 thread. Dunno what the deal was with that although my personal opinion is that a website that sells a product should not promote methods to hack it (and by that I don't mean improve it as was the case with later VCI100 FW versions that were not officially approved by Vestax if i recall correctly). The thing with that DB4 hack was that it enabled people to use timecode without the required hardware. Not such a terrible thing in it's self BUT... the natural affect would be that people would also be able to grab a torrented version of Traktor, hack it and have a full Traktor Scratch Pro setup for free other than paying for a crappy soundcard and timecode thus cheating NI out of revenue for software and hardware. I believe getting under the hood of hardware is different because you have to own it first. Cracking/hacking software generally means getting it for free, illegally. Personally I would find it hypocritical if DJTT condoned such software hacking practices being that it has a revenue stream from selling NI products. Probably not a popular view but there you go. I guess I'm playing devils advocate. I'm pretty sure that if SSL was cracked and you could use any old soundcard with it the whole world would erupt in anger...
Delena Katherman 23.10.2013	Well, somewhat recently there have been posts deleted that referenced the ability to make non-certified mixers (like the DB4/DB2) work with Traktor Scratch Pro. I have a legitimate copy of Traktor Scratch Pro (actually, 3 licenses!) and initially used the hack with my DB2 until I ultimately purchased an Audio 10. I'm not sure what "Ghetto Timecode" is, but maybe that's the same thing. Not complaining, just curious if there was a specific hardware/software distinction. I can understand not wanting to upset anyone.
nayit ruiz jaramillo 23.10.2013	Originally Posted by jdownesbaird Just curious: why is the attitude different when it comes to software hacks (assuming no piracy is involved)? I'm not sure any threads about hacking software have been closed. The "Ghetto Timecode" thread ran for years. I believe the premise of 'most' (not all) threads on hacking software is that it is done on already cracked software as in the case of one of the timecode hack threads where the user admitted it was a cracked version. In the case of Hackintosh threads, Admin have made it clear that that discussion is not permitted. Who wants Apple breathing down your neck? I'm not actually aware of an EULA regarding 'hardware'. My FYI (which I reiterate was just an FYI) is that the OP wanted to ask NI about doing something that I know was in breach of the EULA, therefore NI would have no interest in taking part. That was with regard to software not hardware. That distinction must be made . There was never a mention of closing this thread.
Delena Katherman 23.10.2013	Originally Posted by djspacecamp Bumping this to let you all know that unless we're specifically asked to by a company and they have a compelling reason, we will never close a thread that's attempting to hack a piece of hardware, even if it might violate EULA. We very much promote modifying gear to make it do what you want, and that's pretty much how DJTT got our start. ) Just curious: why is the attitude different when it comes to software hacks (assuming no piracy is involved)?
Xavier Ponce 23.10.2013	Bumping this to let you all know that unless we're specifically asked to by a company and they have a compelling reason, we will never close a thread that's attempting to hack a piece of hardware, even if it might violate EULA. We very much promote modifying gear to make it do what you want, and that's pretty much how DJTT got our start. Also, we really want to see Traktor on Maschine screens. So hurry up already!
Lannie Kutay 22.10.2013	@milo yeah man I was following that project very closely back in the day. Still interested in it.
Ervin Calvery 21.10.2013	Originally Posted by nem0nic In any case, you're going to need to know how to write to the displays, and that's going to require the hardware - which isn't out yet. Not necessarily - I guess you would need one to test it. The software side probably doesn't keep it a secret - friends of mine figured out how to write to Push's screen before they got their hardware. Also, outside the world of DJing, screens aren't really an exciting or unusual thing, and all work more or less the same way. Originally Posted by nem0nic introducing so much latency This could be an issue. It would seem like the sort of low resolution would help allow for a fast refresh rate, but the software side could be a limiting factor, too. Originally Posted by jdownesbaird Stop giving me potential reasons to buy the Studio! I already have the MK2! That didn't stop some of us. Besides, whether or not I'll DJ using my Maschine Studio, it will get use every day.
Arcelia Siebeneck 20.10.2013	I doubt Traktor sends any waveform display information out via HID, as afaik, there isn't any hardware that supports this... yet. When they do, it should be possible to do something similar to an old project of mine: one way to do it now would be to read/scan the Traktor waveforms directly from the Windows/OSX screen. Like how I did this:
Johnsie Kingrea 17.10.2013	Originally Posted by Shishdisma I don't believe I'll ever be able to understand this line of believeing people seem to have that Traktor and Maschine have anything to do with each other. "Still waiting on that Traktor-Maschine integration," maybe someday Numark's product development department will have a stroke and decide to "integrate" the MPC platform into a DJ workflow too? Because somewhere in their "on the record" sessions they've discussed this as being part of the road map. No one knows to what extent but that idea has been put out there.
Nancey Inderlied 17.10.2013	Originally Posted by nem0nic When was the last time you looked at the code of both Traktor and Maschine and compared them? In any case, you're going to need to know how to write to the displays, and that's going to require the hardware - which isn't out yet. And if you're assuming that NI isn't going to support the use of the Studio controller with Traktor (which is probably a safe bet), then you're also going to need to write a bit of middleware that facilitates that communication without introducing so much latency that the whole effort is counter-productive. I don't believe I'll ever be able to understand this line of believeing people seem to have that Traktor and Maschine have anything to do with each other. "Still waiting on that Traktor-Maschine integration," maybe someday Numark's product development department will have a stroke and decide to "integrate" the MPC platform into a DJ workflow too?
Lannie Kutay 17.10.2013	Originally Posted by Shishdisma Shhhhhhhh. Let them have their fun. We don't need to remind them what a proprietary protocol is, and ruin this entire thing for them outright. OP: You might want to try backtracing the user ID GUI in Traktor, it should let you hack the software, and open up the hacker menu on the Maschine. This is just advice from my lvl 3 hacker friend, he's reverse engineered Microsoft. oh nice im sure he hacked the pentagon too.... i'm not looking to get in a pissing match here guys. If your interested then stay on deck, if not just move on.
Nancey Inderlied 18.10.2013	Originally Posted by Karlos Santos Ok, I'm just sayin'... I don't wanna get slapped down. This is just an FYI. That is 'probably' in breach of the EULA you have with Native Instruments regarding the clause about altering the software which negates your support from NI should you have any issues that need their help. But... I would guess that you don't really want their support anyway? They won't help you do something that breaches the EULA so I guess you will just have to "stick it to them"... they will be shaking in their boots That's right, NI will most definitely not support this. Seems like a rather expensive way of getting waveforms on a controller to me but I'd be interested to see the results. Shhhhhhhh. Let them have their fun. We don't need to remind them what a proprietary protocol is, and ruin this entire thing for them outright. OP: You might want to try backtracing the user ID GUI in Traktor, it should let you hack the software, and open up the hacker menu on the Maschine. This is just advice from my lvl 3 hacker friend, he's reverse engineered Microsoft.
Diogo Dj Dragão 18.10.2013	I just believe that you sell a piece of $1000 dollar hardware, but it cant support another piece of your software, that has a VERY similar code architecture. Well that's just mean.... When was the last time you looked at the code of both Traktor and Maschine and compared them? In any case, you're going to need to know how to write to the displays, and that's going to require the hardware - which isn't out yet. And if you're assuming that NI isn't going to support the use of the Studio controller with Traktor (which is probably a safe bet), then you're also going to need to write a bit of middleware that facilitates that communication without introducing so much latency that the whole effort is counter-productive.
Lannie Kutay 18.10.2013	Originally Posted by Karlos Santos Yeah I hear ya man. It really was just an FYI cus most people aren't aware of the particular clause in the EULA. I realise that telling a hacker that there is a clause in and EULA is pretty dumb anyway I really appreciate it man. And I understand what your saying. If the mods could do me a favor and not lock the thread. I will not post any of our resources Because I wouldn't want to promote breaking the EULA. But if we are successful, I would probably post a video just to show that it could be done.
nayit ruiz jaramillo 18.10.2013	Yeah I hear ya man. It really was just an FYI cus most people aren't aware of the particular clause in the EULA. The Licensee must not, except as otherwise expressly provided herein, copy or have copied, decompile or have decompiled, reverse engineer or have reverse engineered the Licensed software or parts of it. I realise that telling a hacker that there is a clause in and EULA is pretty dumb anyway
Lannie Kutay 17.10.2013	@Karlos yeah I understand your points. I figure since it's NI software and NI hardware its not as bad. But if NI catches wind, and sends me a C & D, then I completely understand. But traktor has always kind of favored a hacker mentality. I just believe that you sell a piece of $1000 dollar hardware, but it cant support another piece of your software, that has a VERY similar code architecture. Well that's just mean....
Dione Haimes 17.10.2013	hmmm. could be an interesting read but inb4 possible lock
nayit ruiz jaramillo 17.10.2013	Ok, I'm just sayin'... I don't wanna get slapped down. This is just an FYI. Originally Posted by 031999 I am currently in talks with a local coder to try to reverse engineer Traktor Scratch Pro to get waveforms to display on the screens. That is 'probably' in breach of the EULA you have with Native Instruments regarding the clause about altering the software which negates your support from NI should you have any issues that need their help. But... I would guess that you don't really want their support anyway? Originally Posted by 031999 I'd rather do it without help from NI, just to stick it to them They won't help you do something that breaches the EULA so I guess you will just have to "stick it to them"... they will be shaking in their boots Originally Posted by jdownesbaird I wouldn't count on support from NI (even if you wanted it) That's right, NI will most definitely not support this. Seems like a rather expensive way of getting waveforms on a controller to me but I'd be interested to see the results.
Johnsie Kingrea 17.10.2013	I'm really surprised that no one has pursued this already. After the Traktor/CDJ HID release I thought people would've jumped at the opportunity to snoop the HID connection. I don't doubt that NI will eventually incorporate a built in screen into future products I just have a hard time imagining where they'd fit it in. If they decide to go the modular route (X1, F1) they might have to change the form factor (taller, wider). I have a hard time imagining where you could a screen on a mixer. You'd either compromise on the screen and put a tiny Maschine like LCD near the top of a mixer or you'd go all out and through a nice big Maschine studio screen in the middle of the mixer while increasing the size of the mixer overall.
Delena Katherman 16.10.2013	Stop giving me potential reasons to buy the Studio! I already have the MK2!
Lannie Kutay 16.10.2013	Originally Posted by padi_04 If I remember right, CDJs got Traktor info via HID so you guys might get a lead from there. true, even though it was only track info, i dont believe there were any waveforms invlved. but..... it did send some form of the track browser which we're going to look into, because that track browser sent info both ways between traktor and the cdj, so thats a good thing. --edit, actually i checked, and yeah the cdjs do display like a zoomed out overall waveform.
Nedra Fresneda 16.10.2013	If I remember right, CDJs got Traktor info via HID so you guys might get a lead from there.
Lannie Kutay 16.10.2013	Originally Posted by jdownesbaird Man, I just wanted in on the super secret PM club. But seriously, this is a super ambitious project. I wouldn't count on support from NI (even if you wanted it) because it seems like their next step would be to put those screens in a flagship controller for Traktor. They spent the time and money on the technology, so I don't believe they'll just sit on it. Hope you can get something figured out, but they may beat you to it with an official product. yeah im sure they will release something soon, but i also believe that the maschine studio really lends itself as an awsome traktor controller too, and i doubt they will have native support for it. some of the pm's mentioned that since we're trying to get the waveforms (well everything) out of traktor, that maybe we can make them display on other types of screens, and possibly kinda reconfigure the way traktor is setup. like a modular setup on multiple screens.
Delena Katherman 16.10.2013	Man, I just wanted in on the super secret PM club. But seriously, this is a super ambitious project. I wouldn't count on support from NI (even if you wanted it) because it seems like their next step would be to put those screens in a flagship controller for Traktor. They spent the time and money on the technology, so I don't believe they'll just sit on it. Hope you can get something figured out, but they may beat you to it with an official product.
Lannie Kutay 16.10.2013	Originally Posted by rdej47 Does Maschine run in HID mode? im pretty sure. i mean yeah it does have midi mode too, but when it communicates with maschine software, i believe its hid. HID (Hardware Interface Device) mode allows the player to communicate bi-directionally with the computer in order to send control signals (eg. play, fast-forward, scratch, loop), and receive information (track and time data for the display, loop status for the LEDs). obviously the screens have to communicate somehow, and midi cant send that info. on a side note, the screens are kinda a weird resolution. 480x272 pixel so the waveforms may need to be stretched or something to look right.
Johnsie Kingrea 16.10.2013	Does Maschine run in HID mode?

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Unlocking the Maschine Studio Screens