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Where to start with production? (for the newbie)

Home :: Producer tips and DAW information :: Where to start with production? (for the newbie)Reply

Where to start with production? (for the newbie) Posted on: 31.01.2012 by Regan Berzin Hey all! I've been djing for a year now and want to take the step into production. I have the following: Ableton 8 Bought myself a Vengeance sample pack Audio 8 soundcard Studio monitors anything else I require to get up and running? Now, since I'm a total beginner, how/where is the best place to get me going? I'm willing to put the work in. Also, could someone explain what VSTs are? And could someone recommend a synth? thanks for all your help
Dorie Scelzo 10.02.2012	Go to a store and try one. If you actually play piano, you'll hate how the vast majority of them feel. IMO, there's not a huge difference apart from whether it does aftertouch, whether it has knobs/faders, and whether it has pads. And I've never used an M-Audio product that I've liked
Georgianna Eurick 10.02.2012	Didn't want to open a new thread so I'm gonna ask here: What's the best entry-level midi keyboard that gonna help me get through my noob level? Right now I'm using Ableton possibly Logic in the future. My budget is around 150
Dorie Scelzo 04.02.2012	I might look into the pittsburgh stuff eventually, but for that kind of money, I could probably find a used Virus TI. FWIW, I downloaded the demo of FM8 and am slightly more impressed than last time. Edit: apparently there's a lot of excitement about the minibrute on GS
Dorie Scelzo 03.02.2012	It does look like a really awesome little synth. The Microbrute is even a bit more appealing to me
Dorie Scelzo 03.02.2012	Damn. My grand this summer might very well be a minitaur and a used virus C. Oh well, I'll enjoy that more anyway. And if they suck, GC will be selling them on closeout in a year or so. I'll give you their sample libraries. They're kinda cool. I haven't had that much experience with them (other than the ones for Maschine) because I'm honestly not that interested. But they're not the only ones who make them. Based on product demos, I'm not convinced that Omnisphere might not be better bang for your buck if you're going the software route. Maybe I should give Massive/Absynth/FM8 another try, but they're probably just going to end up wasting hard drive space. I'm at the point where either I'm going to buy a BCR2000 and dedicate it to a particular soft synth or start saving up for hardware. Or preying that someone releases something like Maschine for synthesizers
Dorie Scelzo 03.02.2012	soft synth = software synthesizer. They're like hardware synths
Meaghan Kallmann 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by dylanmc111 Great advice man, I shall take it on board and not spend another dime unless its on Sonic Academy! I was on their site by the way and there's not many videos, is this because I ain't a full member or somethin? it showed like 5/6 videos for beginners! Is Massive a totally different DAW? and Massive works with Maschine right?! or do I have that wrong? Another question, do I have to know stuff on music theory and play a keyboard? I know it would be an advantage but is it essential? Right -- they only show a tiny fraction of the videos to non-members. Just enough to get you foaming at the mouth. Massive is a software synthesizer, a plug-in for your DAW. Music theory - some, yes. Again, SA covers it all. Keyboard, not at all. I don't.
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha I have the demo of Analog Lab Experience, and I'm frankly not the least bit impressed. It's basically just a preset browser for the others, so I'll look into downloading one of the actual demos, but everything just sounds like another VA plugin
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by thegeek Well thanks -- but I believe it's not nearly on the level of "Save Us." Zero training except reading Future Music, Computer Music, Sonic Academy, and shitloads of time. Yeah, SA has a whole section on learning Ableton, scales, chords, melody, rhythm -- everything. If I had to do it over again, that's where I would have started, and maybe left Computer Music. Regarding software / plug-ins / hardware...mostapha speaks wisdom. DO NOT buy anything other than what you already have, maaaaaaybe Sylenth1 since it's really popular and, in my opinion sounds great, but again, you can get very far with Analog in Ableton. Ultimately, as mostapha said, it's all about workflow and what "clicks" with your brain. For example, I have Maschine, and while I sorta kinda like it, and have produced a couple tracks with it, it's very inflexible in certain ways and I always find myself going back to Ableton because I find myself getting things done much much faster and way less frustrated. Do some people LOVE Maschine? Absolutely. Is it right for me? No. (Hmmm, probably need to get that shit on eBay...) Regarding analog vs. digital, it's all about what will help you WRITE MUSIC. My brother is a producer and has a collection of analog synths. I borrowed one from him, a Minimoog. $2K synth, legendary. Sounds f'in amazing. Guess what? I spent an evening twiddling around with it, but I'm a shit keyboard player and I couldn't get into the flow playing it / recording it. So it just collected dust. Sylenth, on the other hand -- $200 and I've used it to death. Anyway, the point is that it's not about your software, your plug-ins, your hardware. It's about just spending time honing your craft and developing a unique sound. Work on tracks for a year or so before you start spending money. Great advice man, I shall take it on board and not spend another dime unless its on Sonic Academy! I was on their site by the way and there's not many videos, is this because I ain't a full member or somethin? it showed like 5/6 videos for beginners! Is Massive a totally different DAW? and Massive works with Maschine right?! or do I have that wrong? Another question, do I have to know stuff on music theory and play a keyboard? I know it would be an advantage but is it essential?
Meaghan Kallmann 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by dylanmc111 give yourself a tap on the back, great track so u have zero training?! never did a course or anything? how did u start with learning music production? (probably a stupid question) Is there many beginner videos on the Sonic Academy? Well thanks -- but I believe it's not nearly on the level of "Save Us." Zero training except reading Future Music, Computer Music, Sonic Academy, and shitloads of time. Yeah, SA has a whole section on learning Ableton, scales, chords, melody, rhythm -- everything. If I had to do it over again, that's where I would have started, and maybe left Computer Music. Regarding software / plug-ins / hardware...mostapha speaks wisdom. DO NOT buy anything other than what you already have, maaaaaaybe Sylenth1 since it's really popular and, in my opinion sounds great, but again, you can get very far with Analog in Ableton. Ultimately, as mostapha said, it's all about workflow and what "clicks" with your brain. For example, I have Maschine, and while I sorta kinda like it, and have produced a couple tracks with it, it's very inflexible in certain ways and I always find myself going back to Ableton because I find myself getting things done much much faster and way less frustrated. Do some people LOVE Maschine? Absolutely. Is it right for me? No. (Hmmm, probably need to get that shit on eBay...) Regarding analog vs. digital, it's all about what will help you WRITE MUSIC. My brother is a producer and has a collection of analog synths. I borrowed one from him, a Minimoog. $2K synth, legendary. Sounds f'in amazing. Guess what? I spent an evening twiddling around with it, but I'm a shit keyboard player and I couldn't get into the flow playing it / recording it. So it just collected dust. Sylenth, on the other hand -- $200 and I've used it to death. Anyway, the point is that it's not about your software, your plug-ins, your hardware. It's about just spending time honing your craft and developing a unique sound. Work on tracks for a year or so before you start spending money.
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by thegeek That's PLENTY. You don't even need to get Sylenth. Analog in Abelton (the native synth) will get you really close. You also are likely to need some sample packs (I dig xFer from deadmau5 / Steve Duda) As for cost of SA, yes, $165 is for a year. Sounds like your budget is tight -- Just go for the silver membership first which is $55 for 3 months, and if you dig it, you can renew for $165 for another year. They are basically exactly the same. u lads are talking a different language, there seems so much to learn!! yeah funds are tight with college an living outta home! where do u get them sample packs mate?
Meaghan Kallmann 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by dylanmc111 Guys, I really don't want to be investing that much money into this at this point! I have ableton, studio montions, headphones, maybe buy a keyboard?! and Sylenth1? would that not be enough to get me going? That's PLENTY. You don't even need to get Sylenth. Analog in Abelton (the native synth) will get you really close. You also are likely to need some sample packs (I dig xFer from deadmau5 / Steve Duda) As for cost of SA, yes, $165 is for a year. Sounds like your budget is tight -- Just go for the silver membership first which is $55 for 3 months, and if you dig it, you can renew for $165 for another year. They are basically exactly the same.
Dorie Scelzo 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by Nephew V Collection has ALL your classic synths, your Moogs, Prophets, Arps, Jupiters and so on, so you have all those sounds at your finger tips at a fraction of the cost of just ONE of them. And you will not be able to tell the difference, they are THAT good
Georgianna Eurick 11.02.2012	Thanks for the input. I was believeing Novation 25 SL MkII but it exceeds my budget
Dorie Scelzo 10.02.2012	Go to a store and try one. If you actually play piano, you'll hate how the vast majority of them feel. IMO, there's not a huge difference apart from whether it does aftertouch, whether it has knobs/faders, and whether it has pads. And I've never used an M-Audio product that I've liked
Georgianna Eurick 10.02.2012	Didn't want to open a new thread so I'm gonna ask here: What's the best entry-level midi keyboard that gonna help me get through my noob level? Right now I'm using Ableton possibly Logic in the future. My budget is around 150
Breana Singerman 04.02.2012	I'm sure there will be a rack kit you can buy for it
Dorie Scelzo 04.02.2012	I might look into the pittsburgh stuff eventually, but for that kind of money, I could probably find a used Virus TI. FWIW, I downloaded the demo of FM8 and am slightly more impressed than last time. Edit: apparently there's a lot of excitement about the minibrute on GS
Breana Singerman 03.02.2012	They all agreed that it sounds like a cheep synth, period. And these are guys who have owned practically every synth ever made since the 80's till today. But for everything it's offering to do but to have such a low price point just doesn't add up so they weren't surprised after hearing. But the one thing they all were excited about was the MacBeth Vortex. They said that it sounds awesome and has a killer price point for what it does. But another thing to keep an eye for is the modular stuff. This could be the breakout year for modular we're all believeing, and it makes sense. After your initial purchase into the world of modular (something like the Doepfer A100 or the just announced Pittsburgh Modular, Foundation) it's a lot easier to spend 100 to 300 every other month to add on new pieces and build upon your set up than it is to save up and spend 700+ for a brand new synth every time. In my opinion this might be the way for you to go it sounds like. Think you would really appreciate it and enjoy the endless possibilities that accompany it.
Dorie Scelzo 03.02.2012	It does look like a really awesome little synth. The Microbrute is even a bit more appealing to me
Breana Singerman 03.02.2012	Can't go wrong with the Minitaur IMO, it's a solid investment that will hold its value. Seems like your issue isn't that you hate soft synths, just the user interface per se. That I can not disagree with. That is the only advantage hardware has over software in my opinion. And if that's the case, invest in a SL Remote Zero MKII and make a template in Ableton (or whatever DAW you use) with each of your fav soft synths set up on a different midi channel for the Remote Zero.
Dorie Scelzo 03.02.2012	Damn. My grand this summer might very well be a minitaur and a used virus C. Oh well, I'll enjoy that more anyway. And if they suck, GC will be selling them on closeout in a year or so. I'll give you their sample libraries. They're kinda cool. I haven't had that much experience with them (other than the ones for Maschine) because I'm honestly not that interested. But they're not the only ones who make them. Based on product demos, I'm not convinced that Omnisphere might not be better bang for your buck if you're going the software route. Maybe I should give Massive/Absynth/FM8 another try, but they're probably just going to end up wasting hard drive space. I'm at the point where either I'm going to buy a BCR2000 and dedicate it to a particular soft synth or start saving up for hardware. Or preying that someone releases something like Maschine for synthesizers
Breana Singerman 03.02.2012	Analog Experience is not what the V Collection is all about. That's a bad example of what Arturia has to offer. We've had a real Arp 2600 in the studio and brought up the Arturia's emulation and you could not tell the difference. We dialed in different settings and tried to get them as close as possible and it was spot on. As for the NI stuff, those are all FM synths vs your classic subtractive synths. It really is a different way of believeing when it comes to learning how to program them but I believe there are far more possibilities with FM for sound design than there is with subtractive. And when I said there's more to Ultimate, I sure was well wasn't talking about Guitar Rig. I was talking about all their sample libraries. You get all these world class sounding libraries at once for a fraction of the cost to buy them separate. Plus the interface for each and what you can with them performance wise (live or recording in the studio) is brilliant and well done. Plus there's ALWAYS going to be new content so it's an investment that can and will grow over time. You can hate soft synths all you want, but the pro's far out weigh the cons when it comes to soft vs hard synths. And from what we seen and heard, the Minibrute isn't going to be that good of a synth. We had a few guys at NAMM and they were very disappointed, there's a reason it's so cheap. As for the Minitaur, they said that's the real deal. It doesn't do much per se, but it's phucking awesome at what it does do and it just oozes quality and care.
Dorie Scelzo 03.02.2012	soft synth = software synthesizer. They're like hardware synths
Meaghan Kallmann 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by dylanmc111 Great advice man, I shall take it on board and not spend another dime unless its on Sonic Academy! I was on their site by the way and there's not many videos, is this because I ain't a full member or somethin? it showed like 5/6 videos for beginners! Is Massive a totally different DAW? and Massive works with Maschine right?! or do I have that wrong? Another question, do I have to know stuff on music theory and play a keyboard? I know it would be an advantage but is it essential? Right -- they only show a tiny fraction of the videos to non-members. Just enough to get you foaming at the mouth. Massive is a software synthesizer, a plug-in for your DAW. Music theory - some, yes. Again, SA covers it all. Keyboard, not at all. I don't.
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha I have the demo of Analog Lab Experience, and I'm frankly not the least bit impressed. It's basically just a preset browser for the others, so I'll look into downloading one of the actual demos, but everything just sounds like another VA plugin
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by thegeek Well thanks -- but I believe it's not nearly on the level of "Save Us." Zero training except reading Future Music, Computer Music, Sonic Academy, and shitloads of time. Yeah, SA has a whole section on learning Ableton, scales, chords, melody, rhythm -- everything. If I had to do it over again, that's where I would have started, and maybe left Computer Music. Regarding software / plug-ins / hardware...mostapha speaks wisdom. DO NOT buy anything other than what you already have, maaaaaaybe Sylenth1 since it's really popular and, in my opinion sounds great, but again, you can get very far with Analog in Ableton. Ultimately, as mostapha said, it's all about workflow and what "clicks" with your brain. For example, I have Maschine, and while I sorta kinda like it, and have produced a couple tracks with it, it's very inflexible in certain ways and I always find myself going back to Ableton because I find myself getting things done much much faster and way less frustrated. Do some people LOVE Maschine? Absolutely. Is it right for me? No. (Hmmm, probably need to get that shit on eBay...) Regarding analog vs. digital, it's all about what will help you WRITE MUSIC. My brother is a producer and has a collection of analog synths. I borrowed one from him, a Minimoog. $2K synth, legendary. Sounds f'in amazing. Guess what? I spent an evening twiddling around with it, but I'm a shit keyboard player and I couldn't get into the flow playing it / recording it. So it just collected dust. Sylenth, on the other hand -- $200 and I've used it to death. Anyway, the point is that it's not about your software, your plug-ins, your hardware. It's about just spending time honing your craft and developing a unique sound. Work on tracks for a year or so before you start spending money. Great advice man, I shall take it on board and not spend another dime unless its on Sonic Academy! I was on their site by the way and there's not many videos, is this because I ain't a full member or somethin? it showed like 5/6 videos for beginners! Is Massive a totally different DAW? and Massive works with Maschine right?! or do I have that wrong? Another question, do I have to know stuff on music theory and play a keyboard? I know it would be an advantage but is it essential?
Meaghan Kallmann 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by dylanmc111 give yourself a tap on the back, great track so u have zero training?! never did a course or anything? how did u start with learning music production? (probably a stupid question) Is there many beginner videos on the Sonic Academy? Well thanks -- but I believe it's not nearly on the level of "Save Us." Zero training except reading Future Music, Computer Music, Sonic Academy, and shitloads of time. Yeah, SA has a whole section on learning Ableton, scales, chords, melody, rhythm -- everything. If I had to do it over again, that's where I would have started, and maybe left Computer Music. Regarding software / plug-ins / hardware...mostapha speaks wisdom. DO NOT buy anything other than what you already have, maaaaaaybe Sylenth1 since it's really popular and, in my opinion sounds great, but again, you can get very far with Analog in Ableton. Ultimately, as mostapha said, it's all about workflow and what "clicks" with your brain. For example, I have Maschine, and while I sorta kinda like it, and have produced a couple tracks with it, it's very inflexible in certain ways and I always find myself going back to Ableton because I find myself getting things done much much faster and way less frustrated. Do some people LOVE Maschine? Absolutely. Is it right for me? No. (Hmmm, probably need to get that shit on eBay...) Regarding analog vs. digital, it's all about what will help you WRITE MUSIC. My brother is a producer and has a collection of analog synths. I borrowed one from him, a Minimoog. $2K synth, legendary. Sounds f'in amazing. Guess what? I spent an evening twiddling around with it, but I'm a shit keyboard player and I couldn't get into the flow playing it / recording it. So it just collected dust. Sylenth, on the other hand -- $200 and I've used it to death. Anyway, the point is that it's not about your software, your plug-ins, your hardware. It's about just spending time honing your craft and developing a unique sound. Work on tracks for a year or so before you start spending money.
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by thegeek That's PLENTY. You don't even need to get Sylenth. Analog in Abelton (the native synth) will get you really close. You also are likely to need some sample packs (I dig xFer from deadmau5 / Steve Duda) As for cost of SA, yes, $165 is for a year. Sounds like your budget is tight -- Just go for the silver membership first which is $55 for 3 months, and if you dig it, you can renew for $165 for another year. They are basically exactly the same. u lads are talking a different language, there seems so much to learn!! yeah funds are tight with college an living outta home! where do u get them sample packs mate?
Meaghan Kallmann 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by dylanmc111 Guys, I really don't want to be investing that much money into this at this point! I have ableton, studio montions, headphones, maybe buy a keyboard?! and Sylenth1? would that not be enough to get me going? That's PLENTY. You don't even need to get Sylenth. Analog in Abelton (the native synth) will get you really close. You also are likely to need some sample packs (I dig xFer from deadmau5 / Steve Duda) As for cost of SA, yes, $165 is for a year. Sounds like your budget is tight -- Just go for the silver membership first which is $55 for 3 months, and if you dig it, you can renew for $165 for another year. They are basically exactly the same.
Dorie Scelzo 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by Nephew V Collection has ALL your classic synths, your Moogs, Prophets, Arps, Jupiters and so on, so you have all those sounds at your finger tips at a fraction of the cost of just ONE of them. And you will not be able to tell the difference, they are THAT good
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by thegeek Thanks man! About 100 hours, total. Maybe a bit more or less. It's the first dutch house track I've ever done; I believe I could probably do the next one in about 60, total. Yes, I believe Sonic Academy is the absolute best way to spend your money, no question; I believe these days with the prevalence of extremely high quality plug-ins (even those that come with Ableton), it's way less about the tools you're using than it is about fundamental knowledge of how to use them. Also, I should note that I have ZERO musical training except a couple months of piano lessons earlier this year. Used some of their courses / templates on scales and modes to great effect; that alone is worth price of admission. Seriously, just do it. This is the track I made 6 weeks ago before finding Sonic Academy. It's fine, but it's just nowhere close to being on the same level: http://soundcloud.com/geekyourfaceof...ese-space-film give yourself a tap on the back, great track so u have zero training?! never did a course or anything? how did u start with learning music production? (probably a stupid question) Is there many beginner videos on the Sonic Academy?
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Guys, I really don't want to be investing that much money into this at this point! I have ableton, studio montions, headphones, maybe buy a keyboard?! and Sylenth1? would that not be enough to get me going?
Meaghan Kallmann 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by dylanmc111 Just had a listen to your track, I have to say, its deadly! how long did it take you to make? I'm very jealous! ha So u reckon start off with signing up to Sonic Academy? Thanks man! About 100 hours, total. Maybe a bit more or less. It's the first dutch house track I've ever done; I believe I could probably do the next one in about 60, total. Yes, I believe Sonic Academy is the absolute best way to spend your money, no question; I believe these days with the prevalence of extremely high quality plug-ins (even those that come with Ableton), it's way less about the tools you're using than it is about fundamental knowledge of how to use them. Also, I should note that I have ZERO musical training except a couple months of piano lessons earlier this year. Used some of their courses / templates on scales and modes to great effect; that alone is worth price of admission. Seriously, just do it. This is the track I made 6 weeks ago before finding Sonic Academy. It's fine, but it's just nowhere close to being on the same level: http://soundcloud.com/geekyourfaceof...ese-space-film
Breana Singerman 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha Also, a DAW and a computer. But, uhh
Breana Singerman 02.02.2012	V Collection has ALL your classic synths, your Moogs, Prophets, Arps, Jupiters and so on, so you have all those sounds at your finger tips at a fraction of the cost of just ONE of them. And you will not be able to tell the difference, they are THAT good. As for Komplete 8 Ultimate, you have all your modern FM synths PLUS the sound libraries that are second to none. Alicia's Key's is the best Piano library out there, plus the Session Strings and more. It's the best deal out there period. After you get these two you'll never have to have to invest in any other sample pack/vst/hardware synth again.
Dorie Scelzo 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by dylanmc111 I have relatively new studio monitors (Yamaha HS50m) I got brand new headphones there 2 days ago (HD 25s) Do u guys believe the Sonic Academy is worth the $165? is that per year I take it? Is it ok for now if I just use Vengeance Sample Packs to get me going? Sample packs might work to get you going
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	Originally Posted by thegeek Been at it for a year or so, but really hunkered down in the last 6 months. As others have said, LOTS of time. The other thing I'd suggest is some sort of "school." For the longest time I considered going to Dubspot, but it's $5K for the "full" production school with Ableton. Ended up finding Sonic Academy (www.sonicacademy.com) and am REALLY stoked I did. Paid the $165 for the full membership for a year and it's been really, really worth it. My learning just went through the roof from watching their tutorials and just following along. They have a series of "How to Make" tutorials for specific genres which are just fantastic. Really give you an insight into how to get genre-specific sounds, and they go into extreme detail, even down to specific mastering techniques, etc. etc. Basically every single detail of making a complete song, which I can't stress enough how amazing that is when you can imagine something but have no idea how to translate it. I just made a track using their Dirty Dutch tutorial and it came out soooooo much better than anything else I've done. Just finished it and posted it on SoundCloud about an hour ago. (Speaking of lots of time, this is about 100 hours worth). Have a listen: http://soundcloud.com/geekyourfaceoff/save-us Anyway, I know I probably sound like a total plug for Sonic Academy, but I believe it's the best money I've spent. Maybe also consider a subscription to Future Music or Computer Music, but I don't believe those are nearly as good a value as SA. And yeah, again, shitloads of time. Don't get discouraged, and just accept that your first few tracks are going to sound like dog shit. Just had a listen to your track, I have to say, its deadly! how long did it take you to make? I'm very jealous! ha So u reckon start off with signing up to Sonic Academy?
Regan Berzin 02.02.2012	I have relatively new studio monitors (Yamaha HS50m) I got brand new headphones there 2 days ago (HD 25s) Do u guys believe the Sonic Academy is worth the $165? is that per year I take it? Is it ok for now if I just use Vengeance Sample Packs to get me going?
Meaghan Kallmann 02.02.2012	Yes, good monitors are critical as is proper room treatment. Both are pricey. If you're tight on budget, a good set of monitoring headphones can go a long way. I have a pair of AKG K240 MK II's and mixes translate really well from them. Also great for when the GF is sleeping. Also, as far as software / plug-ins, I'm a HUGE fan of Sylenth1 and Aether for reverbs. Also dig Razor for creepy pads and weird textures. For everything else (compression, EQ) I use mostly Ableton's native plug-ins. Saving up for Komplete at the moment.

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Where to start with production? (for the newbie)