Why do my tracks sound so cheesy?

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Why do my tracks sound so cheesy?
Posted on: 03.05.2012 by Henrietta Dortch
Hi Guys,
I've been producing in live and logic for about a year, and i'm beginning to get frustrated. I'm trying to make big, fat, killer tracks, and everything turns into a cheesy, trance melody. Any suggestions? Any one know from experience how to break that barrier from amateur tracks? Thanks so much!

http://soundcloud.com/stephenphilibin/rush
Henrietta Dortch
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
1) The complete vocal bundle appears twice in your song. When it appears the second time and when it comes to the point where you've got the vocals "if you feeling say hell yeah" I would erase the top synth bleeps as soon as the downbeat on "hell yeah" comes.

2) I would engage the high-pass filter on the whole track but you might be trying out several options to choose the best one.
On it!
Henrietta Dortch
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
1.) Again I would take out the top synth line earlier: This time, in the second part when the vocals return I would erase the synth when the vocals "hell yeah" come.
2.) When it comes to the point where the female vocals become repeated more and more frequently (loop size reduced), in that part I would engage a high-pass filter to give the upcoming drop even more punch.
1) Don't quite understand what you mean there, i'm sure i'm just being a dumbass, but i'm not sure what you mean there.

2) On just the vocals, or all the tracks?

I've been tweaking all afternoon, so what you may be talking about in #1 i may have already changed, but elaborate on it just in case... it's coming along nicely i believe!(:
Henrietta Dortch
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
Now which drums did you finally use (Xfer sample pack??)?
And, just out of interest: You probably took a part of the original song in lack of an acapella version, right?
I used samples from vengeance vol. 2, which I had already, and I believe are pretty good. Also, yes, I just used a part of the original, no acapella, but I don't believe that's a big deal, it fits rather nicely, I believe.
Henrietta Dortch
26.05.2012
Originally Posted by elio_xh
Firstly, buy one synth and learn it inside out
I want to start with something simple, so what would be the best way to learn something like Analog, Operator, or preferable, Tyrell Nexus 6?
Henrietta Dortch
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by Alice257
Maybe it's related to process - do you fall in to a rut when composing the melodies or trying to make everything so agressive-sounding?
What do you mean by that?
Henrietta Dortch
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
1) The complete vocal bundle appears twice in your song. When it appears the second time and when it comes to the point where you've got the vocals "if you feeling say hell yeah" I would erase the top synth bleeps as soon as the downbeat on "hell yeah" comes.

2) I would engage the high-pass filter on the whole track but you might be trying out several options to choose the best one.
On it!
Sylvia Greener
27.05.2012		1) The complete vocal bundle appears twice in your song. When it appears the second time and when it comes to the point where you've got the vocals "if you feeling say hell yeah" I would erase the top synth bleeps as soon as the downbeat on "hell yeah" comes.

2) I would engage the high-pass filter on the whole track but you might be trying out several options to choose the best one.
Henrietta Dortch
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
1.) Again I would take out the top synth line earlier: This time, in the second part when the vocals return I would erase the synth when the vocals "hell yeah" come.
2.) When it comes to the point where the female vocals become repeated more and more frequently (loop size reduced), in that part I would engage a high-pass filter to give the upcoming drop even more punch.
1) Don't quite understand what you mean there, i'm sure i'm just being a dumbass, but i'm not sure what you mean there.

2) On just the vocals, or all the tracks?

I've been tweaking all afternoon, so what you may be talking about in #1 i may have already changed, but elaborate on it just in case... it's coming along nicely i believe!(:
Sylvia Greener
27.05.2012		First of all: Nice new top synth line! Much better than the first time! And thanks for taking my advice to stop the top synth line when the piano starts playing
Maybe two more suggestions to make it even better!
1.) Again I would take out the top synth line earlier: This time, in the second part when the vocals return I would erase the synth when the vocals "hell yeah" come.
2.) When it comes to the point where the female vocals become repeated more and more frequently (loop size reduced), in that part I would engage a high-pass filter to give the upcoming drop even more punch.
Henrietta Dortch
27.05.2012		Okay, can someone also tell me why live always screws with what octave my notes are in when i activate pitchbend (example: the beginning blip in my track goes down an octave on the first automation marker for pitch on the channel. And also, every once and awhile it moves my synths up a half step, or down a halfstep, and i have to go into the clip and add an automation mark in pitchbend, but not move it, and it puts it back... wtf?
Henrietta Dortch
28.05.2012		Alright, here i have a finished version of this remix. I have a HUGE grad party i'm spinning at this saturday, and i'd really love to play this track, so i have a few days to tweak tweak tweak! So give me your feedback and suggestions, i believe this is a serious step up from where i was before I posted on the community s, but that's for you guys to decide...

http://cl.ly/1B060a0y2c2j1n280b0q
Henrietta Dortch
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
Now which drums did you finally use (Xfer sample pack??)?
And, just out of interest: You probably took a part of the original song in lack of an acapella version, right?
I used samples from vengeance vol. 2, which I had already, and I believe are pretty good. Also, yes, I just used a part of the original, no acapella, but I don't believe that's a big deal, it fits rather nicely, I believe.
Sylvia Greener
27.05.2012		First of all: Quite nice, there are lots of decent elements in your track. I personally would suggest one minor adjustment: The high-frequency top synth which is introduced after the bassline should be completely erased at the point (drop) where the piano comes in.
Now which drums did you finally use (Xfer sample pack??)?
And, just out of interest: You probably took a part of the original song in lack of an acapella version, right?
Henrietta Dortch
26.05.2012		oops, forgot the link lol http://cl.ly/2S0L213j1I193X2J1j3A
Henrietta Dortch
26.05.2012		how's this? sort of a club mix of the new will i am track. added some more bass, and took more time on percussion
Yukiko Beauvil
26.05.2012		Something simple? Fabfilter one lol
Henrietta Dortch
26.05.2012
Originally Posted by elio_xh
Firstly, buy one synth and learn it inside out
I want to start with something simple, so what would be the best way to learn something like Analog, Operator, or preferable, Tyrell Nexus 6?
Sylvia Greener
26.05.2012		@elio_xh
Great suggestion!
I highly recommend to watch also DJVesper's other tutorial stuff. I regularly check out his homepage! He's a great teacher giving you lots of knowledge and inspiration!
Christel Croak
26.05.2012		Hey I'm just going to give you my advice on your production, because I started out trying to make the same type of tracks, but then I got really tired of that cheesy commerical house music. These are my best tips:

- Firstly, buy one synth and learn it inside out, even if it requires a course. I bought massive, and actually took a $30 online course that really went in depth with how it works and how to achieve what you want. I used http://www.massivesynth.com. Browse around, they have good tutorials and a really good course for its price.
- Don't overcomplicate your bass patches. You don't need 3 or 4 oscillators to make something sound good, this video taught me a lot:
- Which brings me to the next tip. Watch youtube tutorials on creating the sounds of artists you look up to. Not so you can mimic their sound identically, but to see how they create the sounds they do. Reverse engineering is a great process for sound design. It helps guide you in a direction for creating a particular sound.

- To beefen up your tracks, and make them sound less amature you really need to process your sounds, either using VST plugins or using built-in ableton audio effects. Some techniques i use and i suggest you look up youtube tutorials on them (but if you have any questions ask away):
frequency split using ableton's multiband dynamics. This allows your split a sounds, and alter each part of it seperatly (mids, lows, highs)
Distort using Ableton's Amp (Great distortion, especially with the blues amp)
Saturate (Ableton built in. Great device I use it all the time, and so does Tommy Trash. It sounds makes sounds fuller)

Effect Process using VSTs:
Camelphat3- Great all around plugin, one of the best investements I made
Dada Life's Sausage Fattener- Overdrive, distortion plugin for making big basses (plus on $30, and many artists use it)
Speakerphone- Allows you to pass sounds as if they were coming out of specific amps or speakers, reallly nifty thing(I use it for all my keys, it gives them distinct sound by spreading them throughout the spectrum, kind of my little secret )

Lastly EQ and lightly compress. I'm not a huge fan of side-chain compression, but if you do, don't group everything together and then compress it, it sounds bad. Sidechain each synth seperatly using different ratios and thresholds, and knees to make them different.

For your drums: Layer samples, you can find great tutorials on this. Kicks, i always use 2: a big kick for the punch, and a higher kick with the more distinct sounds. Same with snares. If you're looking for good kick sample packs, I highly reccomend Xfer by deadmau5 and Steve Duda. There are also TONS of free ones out there, if you need help on any sound in particular let me know, but i'll give you one of my favourite free packs, awesome kicks and snares. http://www.freesound.org/people/crispydinner/

One last thing for EQing your drums, what i always do for my kicks is use a notch filter and take out the mids. Kicks have great low and and high end, but usually shitty mids. HAPPY PRODUCING
Henrietta Dortch
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by Alice257
Maybe it's related to process - do you fall in to a rut when composing the melodies or trying to make everything so agressive-sounding?
What do you mean by that?
Georgina Schatzman
23.05.2012		NFR copy from when I worked at a Studio and Audio Production shop.
Henrietta Dortch
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
How did you manage that?
Yeah, seriously lol
Romelia Stankard
23.05.2012		Well, can't say I would be complaining about komplete 8 ultimate for $250 either

How did you manage that?
Georgina Schatzman
23.05.2012		Yeah, Komplete 8 Ultimate
Henrietta Dortch
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
For $250 I couldn't be happier with my purchase.
What was $250, komplete? And I got tyrell nexus 6, i've been playing with it, really liking it!!
Georgina Schatzman
23.05.2012		There's more ti Komplete 8 Ultimate than just the VSTs. The George Duke library is amazing, same with the Alica Keys library, won't find a better sounding piano out there. And I love the Session Strings library as well. Use it a lot on my productions.

And there's much more to it as well that I could spend a whole thread talking about. The Scarbee Bass is SOOOOO good, so natural. Could spend hours and not even get something close sounding to it.

For $250 I couldn't be happier with my purchase.
Romelia Stankard
23.05.2012		Yeah I hear where you're coming from on the NI komplete stuff. I sold Massive a while back since I hated it and I recently just bought FM8 since I wanted an FM synth and there were no better options- I'm really glad I didn't spend the money on Komplete when I was looking at it and everyone was talking about how it was such a good value. I would have spent like $800 on ultimate to maybe use two VSTs in the end. As a side note if you are shopping for VSTs then buying licenses on the KVR community s is the way to go- there are people selling everything for cheap and usually at least half of retail. I paid $60 for FM8 (I wouldn't have been willing to buy it at retail price).

NI Razor is kind of cool, I just don't like that it is a reaktor ensemble and it feels clunky and if you don't own reaktor you can't save any patches in reaktor player- even though they advertise that you don't need to own reaktor to run it, so it's kind of useless without it.
Dorie Scelzo
23.05.2012		Synapse Dune and discoDSP discoveryPro would both be good choices
Tera Baragan
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
You should demo them before making a decision and also check out Tyrell Nexus 6 which I posted above, it's free and is easily as good sounding or better than sylenth (sounds fatter to me I'm messing with it now, sylenth sounds thin and plasticy for bass).
Im pumped you posted tyrell nexus. Im gonna go grab that right now. Ive been looking for certain sounds like that to use as a build!
Romelia Stankard
23.05.2012		You should demo them before making a decision and also check out Tyrell Nexus 6 which I posted above, it's free and is easily as good sounding or better than sylenth (sounds fatter to me I'm messing with it now, sylenth sounds thin and plasticy for bass).
Henrietta Dortch
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
I would stick to Ableton's effect and processing tools and just add one or two instruments (e.g. soft synths like Sylenth, Massive, Dune, Arturia Analog Experience; pianos, drum tools etc.)
I currently use a torrent version of massive every so often, and the sounds are nice, but it is reallllly complicated for me to program most times... Sylenth1 looks good, i've really considered it, and i was told by a community member dune was more of a trance machine, and analog experience? really?
Sylvia Greener
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
Like I said, look at the latest Waves Complete bundle. Lots of good compressors/EQs/Reverb units in there.
I believe you didn't consider the OP's budget. And for that reason I would stick to Ableton's effect and processing tools and just add one or two instruments (e.g. soft synths like Sylenth, Massive, Dune, Arturia Analog Experience; pianos, drum tools etc.)
Honestly I would highly recommend Native Instruments Komplete 8 best with Arturia V-collection. This combo definitely rocks (!!!) and should be a very huge step further from what the OP actually got now!
Dorie Scelzo
23.05.2012
Originally Posted by sphilibin
Haha i'm counting on it! So what i'm taking away from all of this is, put more time into sound programming, percussion and drums, and also, work a bit on the mix, and leveling? In what order would you put these, as in what needs the most immediate attention, and also, if there's anything worth adding...
I haven't listened to any of the audio you've posted
Romelia Stankard
22.05.2012		Oh I didn't realize you didn't have any VST synths yet.

Don't forget there is some really good free stuff out there. There is a lot more crap, but some gems too.

Tyrell Nexus 6 is free made by Urs Heckman and while I haven't really messed with it much I believe it sounds better than sylenth and a lot of paid VSTs.





http://www.amazona.de/index.php?page...rticle_id=3372
Henrietta Dortch
22.05.2012		Processing effects are big, but i still feel like operator, or analog aren't close to as fat as i'd like them to be
Georgina Schatzman
22.05.2012		I see side chaining as an effect, and for that Abletons compressor works fine. But for my mixdowns I reach for something different that sounds better (too me at least).

Like I said, look at the latest Waves Complete bundle. Lots of good compressors/EQs/Reverb units in there.
Henrietta Dortch
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
I wouldn't use Abletons EQs/Reverbs/Compressors
What would you get to replace those 3? I like the simplicity of the compressor, just selecting the track you want to sidechain and such... suggestions?
Georgina Schatzman
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Honestly though I would be more concerned about quality processing plugins since most softsynths sound plasticy and cheesy dry and using lesser processing plugins doesn't help anything.
Your right to a point. I wouldn't use Abletons EQs/Reverbs/Compressors anymore but their other effects like their Chorus, Saturator , delays (simple and Ping Ping) and so on are really good actually and quite flexible and add just the subtle touch of colour to soften stuff up and bring it to life.

And don't forget about the resonator!
Georgina Schatzman
22.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
Arturia offers some Analog Classics like the Minimoog (extensively used by Deadmau5 for example). They're not as cheap as Sylenth 1 but really good emulations of the original hrdware synth. If you won't manage to pick out your favorites you will be able to get them all as the V-collection (bundle is far cheaper than all of them as single purchase).
This! Can't go wrong with the V-Collection bundle. Moog Modular is a beast! And the Jupiter8 is such a rich and sweet sounding synth. It's a pad machine! But one of my favs from the bundle is the ARP2600. You want some raw, quirky and unique sounds look no further than the 2600. Use it on just about everything there is.

As for 3rd party processing, just get the latest Wavs Complete bundle and you'll be golden for years to come.
Romelia Stankard
22.05.2012		Look in the favorite soft synths thread in here.

Honestly though I would be more concerned about quality processing plugins since most softsynths sound plasticy and cheesy dry and using lesser processing plugins doesn't help anything.

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