Wanting to begin Music Production, how/what to get to start?

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Wanting to begin Music Production, how/what to get to start?
Posted on: 22.06.2012 by Fred Meager
Hi so I want to start trying to make my own songs

I already have Ableton Live, but I don't really know how to use it. I am believeing to purchase a midi controller
This one in particular, http://www.axemusic.com/product.asp?...=any&PT_ID=all

and try to figure Ableton out over the summer.
Is the MPK Mini a good keyboard to begin with? What are some tips/tricks to use with Ableton?
I am a total noob/beginner with this, and the only other music-type program I have is Traktor, which I use with my traktor S2.
Georgianna Eurick
05.07.2012
Originally Posted by 3heads
Hm, with the temporary pricedrop I'm quite tempted to sell my EMX and buy a Maschine instead. I should be able to come out even (or it should at least be close). Hmm, guess I'll watch some of those tutorial videos now to figure out if I'd like the workflow.
Guess that's gonna be my choice also. Are you planning to buy it from thomann.de?
Cole Maroto
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
Yeah. I just prefer mixing in pro tools.

I've done scratch mixes with Maschine, and I keep things sorts pre-mixed while I'm adding parts anyway. It is possible to finish a track and mix it in Maschine. Depending on how you believe and how you (eventually) like to work, it's not ideal. There are serious limitations, mostly due to how weird routing is, how limited group mixes are, how there are only 4 effects slots per sound/group/master, and how it does (or rather doesn't do) song-level automation.

It has serious shortcomings that make it a lot harder to get a good mix, mostly the complete lack of level meters. But if you wanted to, you could get a lot closer with Maschine than with anything else that works like a groove box.

How I usually work is to do the "tracking" through maschine. I use its sequencer (for patterns and full songs) for basically everything including most automation and some basic effects. Then, I just bounce stems from Maschine to audio files on disk
Cole Maroto
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by botstein
I use Maschine in combination with Ableton all the time. I posted about my favourite way to do so here: http://community .djranking s.com/showthread.php?t=48092

Remember that you can drag audio / MIDI out of the standalone application or use the Maschine VST in Ableton or Pro Tools.
nice, i'm gonna have to check out that out when i'm ready for that part. thanks!
Cole Maroto
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
30 part what now?
someone else posted their playlist but here is the direct NI one if anyone wants



edit: click watch on youtube and click on the set at the right called maschine tutorials with 30 videos and it will play them all in order.

edit 2: i found their direct playlist here as well: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE09FB7325305DE7C
Wallace Lawmaster
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
"This playlist is private. It can be shared, but others will not be able to view it until it is made public."
fixed
Georgianna Eurick
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by djdunamis
yeah, NI has bunch of tutorials for Maschine, I took the time to make a playlist if you want to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF3314E7EBDF93116
"This playlist is private. It can be shared, but others will not be able to view it until it is made public."
Wallace Lawmaster
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
30 part what now?
yeah, NI has bunch of tutorials for Maschine, I took the time to make a playlist if you want to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF3314E7EBDF93116


After talking with some friends that use Maschine, I wound up doing my patterns and sequences in Maschine, then export them as audio stems (it's a feature with Maschine) to further edit them within Live.
Celestine Porebski
07.07.2012
Well, they certainly are fun, but I mostly play around with my ESX - the EMX is collecting dust and not much else. And buying a Maschine without selling stuff is not an option with my financial situation right now, so I believe the EMX has to go.
Dorie Scelzo
06.07.2012
@3heads, I've seriously considered getting an EMX to leave in my backpack instead of Maschine. They always seemed like fun. I'm not suggesting you don't get Maschine at all……just commenting.

Sadly, I've spent too much money lately, otherwise I'd probably be interested in it.
Georgianna Eurick
05.07.2012
Originally Posted by 3heads
Hm, with the temporary pricedrop I'm quite tempted to sell my EMX and buy a Maschine instead. I should be able to come out even (or it should at least be close). Hmm, guess I'll watch some of those tutorial videos now to figure out if I'd like the workflow.
Guess that's gonna be my choice also. Are you planning to buy it from thomann.de?
Celestine Porebski
05.07.2012
Hm, with the temporary pricedrop I'm quite tempted to sell my EMX and buy a Maschine instead. I should be able to come out even (or it should at least be close). Hmm, guess I'll watch some of those tutorial videos now to figure out if I'd like the workflow.
Dorie Scelzo
05.07.2012
No prob. And, yeah, if you know and like Live, use it. I'm only a Pro Tools snob when it comes to my own computer…and I actually own Live as well……I DJed in it for a while, and I'd consider using it for Live PA if I ever did that……but I just hate it for production.
Cole Maroto
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
Yeah. I just prefer mixing in pro tools.

I've done scratch mixes with Maschine, and I keep things sorts pre-mixed while I'm adding parts anyway. It is possible to finish a track and mix it in Maschine. Depending on how you believe and how you (eventually) like to work, it's not ideal. There are serious limitations, mostly due to how weird routing is, how limited group mixes are, how there are only 4 effects slots per sound/group/master, and how it does (or rather doesn't do) song-level automation.

It has serious shortcomings that make it a lot harder to get a good mix, mostly the complete lack of level meters. But if you wanted to, you could get a lot closer with Maschine than with anything else that works like a groove box.

How I usually work is to do the "tracking" through maschine. I use its sequencer (for patterns and full songs) for basically everything including most automation and some basic effects. Then, I just bounce stems from Maschine to audio files on disk
Cole Maroto
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by botstein
I use Maschine in combination with Ableton all the time. I posted about my favourite way to do so here: http://community .djranking s.com/showthread.php?t=48092

Remember that you can drag audio / MIDI out of the standalone application or use the Maschine VST in Ableton or Pro Tools.
nice, i'm gonna have to check out that out when i'm ready for that part. thanks!
Cole Maroto
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
30 part what now?
someone else posted their playlist but here is the direct NI one if anyone wants



edit: click watch on youtube and click on the set at the right called maschine tutorials with 30 videos and it will play them all in order.

edit 2: i found their direct playlist here as well: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE09FB7325305DE7C
Wallace Lawmaster
04.07.2012
alright, I tried again.
Georgianna Eurick
04.07.2012
It still says private
Wallace Lawmaster
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
"This playlist is private. It can be shared, but others will not be able to view it until it is made public."
fixed
Georgianna Eurick
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by djdunamis
yeah, NI has bunch of tutorials for Maschine, I took the time to make a playlist if you want to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF3314E7EBDF93116
"This playlist is private. It can be shared, but others will not be able to view it until it is made public."
Fred Meager
04.07.2012
http://blog.dubspot.com/dubspot-ableton-3030/
This is the 30 30 thing
Wallace Lawmaster
04.07.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
30 part what now?
yeah, NI has bunch of tutorials for Maschine, I took the time to make a playlist if you want to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF3314E7EBDF93116


After talking with some friends that use Maschine, I wound up doing my patterns and sequences in Maschine, then export them as audio stems (it's a feature with Maschine) to further edit them within Live.
Fred Meager
04.07.2012
Johnv, yes I know about music theory,
I have taken piano for about 6 years, and I have taken two levels of music theory with RCM
Dorie Scelzo
03.07.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
awesome thanks man! i have been following the 30 part tutorial series since it gets you hands on pretty quickly, then i fall back on the manual if i need something specific i can believe of to add in. it seems to be working for me so far.
30 part what now?

Originally Posted by squidot
do you mind if i ask how you use your maschine in combo with pro tools? do you believe that a song could be made completely within maschine and not need any other work for it to sound professional? i also have ableton so i could use that in combo as well.
Yeah. I just prefer mixing in pro tools.

I've done scratch mixes with Maschine, and I keep things sorts pre-mixed while I'm adding parts anyway. It is possible to finish a track and mix it in Maschine. Depending on how you believe and how you (eventually) like to work, it's not ideal. There are serious limitations, mostly due to how weird routing is, how limited group mixes are, how there are only 4 effects slots per sound/group/master, and how it does (or rather doesn't do) song-level automation.

It has serious shortcomings that make it a lot harder to get a good mix, mostly the complete lack of level meters. But if you wanted to, you could get a lot closer with Maschine than with anything else that works like a groove box.

How I usually work is to do the "tracking" through maschine. I use its sequencer (for patterns and full songs) for basically everything including most automation and some basic effects. Then, I just bounce stems from Maschine to audio files on disk…import them to Pro Tools and do the editing and mixing.

I find that works the best. A few effects (things integral to the sounds and some basic EQing and some preamp/eq emulation stuff) get printed onto the audio. PT has a nifty feature to normalize sounds to specific peak or RMS levels……plus clip based gain.

There are a lot of ways to work, and I believe that works best for me……it separates the mixing and writing processes. Mine is neither the only nor necessarily the best. But I'd be happy to answer questions if you have them.

Originally Posted by Johnv
@ OP: do you have any knowledge of music theory?. If you don't you'll want to start there. Otherwise you'll be trying to build a bridge without any prior knowledge in engineering.
There are a lot of things to learn. I say jump in head first and get to the point where you're having fun……then start focusing on your shortcomings.
Ervin Calvery
03.07.2012
Originally Posted by Johnv
@ OP: do you have any knowledge of music theory?. If you don't you'll want to start there. Otherwise you'll be trying to build a bridge without any prior knowledge in engineering.
Yes! Music theory all the way.
Tiara Bastarache
03.07.2012
@ OP: do you have any knowledge of music theory?. If you don't you'll want to start there. Otherwise you'll be trying to build a bridge without any prior knowledge in engineering.
Ervin Calvery
03.07.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
awesome thanks man! i have been following the 30 part tutorial series since it gets you hands on pretty quickly, then i fall back on the manual if i need something specific i can believe of to add in. it seems to be working for me so far.

do you mind if i ask how you use your maschine in combo with pro tools? do you believe that a song could be made completely within maschine and not need any other work for it to sound professional? i also have ableton so i could use that in combo as well.
I use Maschine in combination with Ableton all the time. I posted about my favourite way to do so here: http://community .djranking s.com/showthread.php?t=48092

Remember that you can drag audio / MIDI out of the standalone application or use the Maschine VST in Ableton or Pro Tools.
Jaqueline Manteiga
03.07.2012
You should learn the program to see if you enjoy producing music before you go and dish out money on something that you may hate and not be very good at.
Cole Maroto
02.07.2012
awesome thanks man! i have been following the 30 part tutorial series since it gets you hands on pretty quickly, then i fall back on the manual if i need something specific i can believe of to add in. it seems to be working for me so far.

do you mind if i ask how you use your maschine in combo with pro tools? do you believe that a song could be made completely within maschine and not need any other work for it to sound professional? i also have ableton so i could use that in combo as well.
Dorie Scelzo
30.06.2012
Yeah…just PM me or start a thread. I'm loving Maschine, despite it's shortcomings.

NI's videos are okay, but really…the manual is decent.
Cole Maroto
29.06.2012
definitely check craigslist for gear everyday. i ended up getting a pristine mpk49, with the box and everything for $120. i was considering that or an axiom for my price point at the time but that deal was just too good to pass up.

mostapha: i just picked up maschine last weekend myself and am really liking it so far. it's a bit tricky for me to learn but i've been following the NI tutorials which are helping and for the first time i feel like i've actually made a decent beat that i can groove to. once i get past all the beginner stuff i would love to be able to ask you some questions if i can't figure things out...that is if you don't mind. you always seem to have some great input and ideas on most things around here.
Dorie Scelzo
29.06.2012
Yeah…if you believe better with a keyboard than a mouse, anything is better than nothing. I just wish the crap cost less.
Wallace Lawmaster
29.06.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
A good example of why people might vehemently defend their choices and suggest them to others with or without enough knowledge: http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...=cta2_20120621
Good article.

To comment on rest of your post, I wound up going through several different controllers and software before stopping on the ones I have now. Also, I like hardware, so knew I couldn't stay all software long, so I got a Virus TI and recently got a Maschine.

@Ugadeee - I would look at the M-Audio Axiom, pretty inexpensive and good to start with. But if the small Akai controller is all you can afford, go with it or keep saving.
Dorie Scelzo
29.06.2012
A good example of why people might vehemently defend their choices and suggest them to others with or without enough knowledge: http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...=cta2_20120621

As for things you haven't used…I blame people staying in a Holiday Inn Express.

I've used a lot of stuff, and I have an idea of what I enjoy using…though what "works" for me depends on goals. If it's getting signed or getting a big release, nothing works for me yet. If it's having fun making music, well…I believe my views are spread out across this board pretty well. And they're pretty different from what a lot of people consider the norm.

One of the bigger jumps towards actually enjoying things was trying everything I could get my hands on and realizing that the "tropes" for EDM (Live, NI Komplete, Sylenth, Reason, etc.) weren't what I enjoyed. Unfortunately, the stuff I enjoy ends up being a lot more expensive to the point that I haven't actually invested in the hardware that I believe would make things even easier……mostly because I'm waiting to not feel guilty about it and to start taking piano lessons.

Believe me, I wish that Live + a couple free soft synths and a mouse was all I wanted, but that's not the case. My musical life would take a lot more success to break even than someone who's happy working entirely in the box. Hell…I'm legitimately weighing Pro Tools HD Native vs. the Complete Production Toolkit just for a few small features that I've used on other systems before…and the cheaper one is $2000……for what amounts to a ram disk, more record channels, and VCA Masters. It's stupid. But it's part of the way I like to work, and getting down towards 0 latency will matter when I start buying synthesizers and microphones.

And if people come here (or elsewhere) and get a "this is how you do it" rundown and they happen to believe like I do…or differently from me and *cough* some other people…they'll wind up discouraged and possibly give it up before they find something that works for them.

I love music. I'll keep doing it, and as long as I can keep my girlfriend happy and my cat fed, I won't consider a few grand in synthesizers wasted even if I never get a track on the beatport charts. And if someone loves music like that but hates Live……I'd hate for them to give up just because they're not as pathetic as me and haven't spent days at a time googling and surfing to find out what else is out there.

And I still believe that the "crap I don't like" has its place. I kind of believe the Maschine Mikro is a joke compared to the full one and that the MPK Mini is a cheap toy. But, if I wind up not going whole-hog towards hardware, there's a good chance I'll own both just to keep in my bag and work anywhere I want to. Or a small groove box that–outside of that context–wouldn't be all that impressive and is just plain less powerful than what I already have.

There are so many ways to do this, just about all you can do (without an unlimited budget) is get a lot of information, hope you can tell the BS sources from the ones that are good but still not you, and figure out something that makes sense for the way you believe.
Tera Baragan
29.06.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
FL Studio is neither easier to learn nor less complete than Live. FL Studio is more than capable of complete, pro-sounding productions…it just has a very different workflow from Live. I don't like it at all, but it's not crap. And Live is no more complete than anything else except maybe Reason……and that's just because until recently it couldn't use 3rd party plugins.


Bullshit. People use the tools that make the job easy for them and that they can afford. What you meant to say was that you prefer drawing in notes to playing a keyboard.

Even if you're a terrible keyboardist, it's much easier to improvise and maybe wind up with a half-decent melody with a keyboard than by drawing in notes. And that too ignores step sequencers, grid sequencers, and keyboard modes that make a computer keyboard echo MIDI notes.



You've never touched an MPD or a Maschine, have you?

Maschine is cool because of the Maschine software. Without that, yeah…the pads are decent…but it's not enough better than an MPK or Axiom to be worth the cost.
Lol. I dont understand why people spend so much time trying to bullshit people on a community . If you haven't used anything dont bother trying to explain it hhaa.

Im looking at getting a cheap controller here. Should be decent.
Dorie Scelzo
29.06.2012
Originally Posted by FILTHZ
Just start off with the DAW by itself. Ableton is a good place to start. FL Studio is easier to learn, but Ableton is more... COMPLETE!
FL Studio is neither easier to learn nor less complete than Live. FL Studio is more than capable of complete, pro-sounding productions…it just has a very different workflow from Live. I don't like it at all, but it's not crap. And Live is no more complete than anything else except maybe Reason……and that's just because until recently it couldn't use 3rd party plugins.

Originally Posted by FILTHZ
Most EDM Artists these days don't use a MIDI Controllers in their productions anyway as it is simple enough just to draw in automation and MIDI Notes by hand.
Bullshit. People use the tools that make the job easy for them and that they can afford. What you meant to say was that you prefer drawing in notes to playing a keyboard.

Even if you're a terrible keyboardist, it's much easier to improvise and maybe wind up with a half-decent melody with a keyboard than by drawing in notes. And that too ignores step sequencers, grid sequencers, and keyboard modes that make a computer keyboard echo MIDI notes.

Originally Posted by FILTHZ
I would recommend getting a beat machine though as it is a good thing to play around with and experiment with new beats. Something such as an MPD32 or Maschine would be a good place to start.

EDIT: I would prefer a Maschine over an MPD because the MPD has a cheaper feel to it being plastic, whereas the Maschine has an aluminium finish and looks way more professional and as Mostapha was saying I would rather have a more expensive good looking controller than a controller that is cheaper and does the same thing but looks like shit and feels like shit.
You've never touched an MPD or a Maschine, have you?

Maschine is cool because of the Maschine software. Without that, yeah…the pads are decent…but it's not enough better than an MPK or Axiom to be worth the cost.
Tobi Rabuse
29.06.2012
Just start off with the DAW by itself. Ableton is a good place to start. FL Studio is easier to learn, but Ableton is more... COMPLETE!
Most EDM Artists these days don't use a MIDI Controllers in their productions anyway as it is simple enough just to draw in automation and MIDI Notes by hand.

I would recommend getting a beat machine though as it is a good thing to play around with and experiment with new beats. Something such as an MPD32 or Maschine would be a good place to start.

EDIT: I would prefer a Maschine over an MPD because the MPD has a cheaper feel to it being plastic, whereas the Maschine has an aluminium finish and looks way more professional and as Mostapha was saying I would rather have a more expensive good looking controller than a controller that is cheaper and does the same thing but looks like shit and feels like shit.
Dorie Scelzo
28.06.2012
Likewise. Well, except that I'm a terrible keyboardist. The crappy-feeling keyboard I have doesn't make me want to practice, and as a result I just don't use it and use the pads on my Maschine instead.
Ervin Calvery
28.06.2012
Originally Posted by Michielygil
If you're classically schooled or used to playing the melody right the first time, it might turn you off.
This is really honest and true. I love that you pointed out that feelings about weighted keys might depend on one's workflow - playing things in ("right the first time") versus extensively adjusting the performance later.

I loathe using anything but weighted keys, but I have (lots and lots and lots of) classical training.
Terra Merigold
27.06.2012
The Roland A-500 ; A-800 are the best feeling midi keyboards imo. My suggestion.. get one of these or instead go the real cheap route.. You can find 49 key midi controllers on ebay for around $60-80 shipped from ebay..
Celine Surico
26.06.2012
Craigslist is usually full of decent working MIDI controllers for 1/3 the price. Get one of those.

I must say, the more you know how to play a keyboard or any instrument, the most interesting music you could make. So avoid the MIDI editing/loop trap.

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