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Want to properly start producing my own music - Logic or Ableton?

Home :: Producer tips and DAW information :: Want to properly start producing my own music - Logic or Ableton?Reply

Want to properly start producing my own music - Logic or Ableton? Posted on: 08.07.2012 by Temple Cervelli Hey guys. I want to start getting serious into production now and make my own tunes, And before I spend a heap of money on a DAW, I wanna know what's the best one to get. I'm deciding out of Logic or Ableton, I have Logic pro 8or9 on my Mac G5, but not my macbook, and i use my MBP the most, so want a new copy for it, I have also downloaded and tried the trial version of ableton live (8 i believe) and it seems SO user friendly, much more then Logic, Ableton seems to work easier, where as logic, im just mind blown and haven't got a clue how to do anything. I have heard that Logic is better for producing music, and ableton is better for DJing Live with, I REALLY want to benefit from the live DJ side of ableton, but... I'm just really wanting to get into producing my own tracks and remixing etc now. If I get ableton, ill benefit hugely from the live DJ part, because thats where im aiming for with my sets, but would i be limited to the production part, and would logic be better to use for producing. What do you all recommend? Thanks!
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them
Temple Cervelli 11.07.2012	IMG_1555.jpg IMG_1556.jpg IMG_1557.jpg Originally Posted by mostapha Anyway…if you like Logic, then buy it and use it and who gives a flying fuck what Apple does with Logic 10. If it blows, don't upgrade. More than half the pro studio world is on Pro Tools 8……which was still built for Power PCs. The current version is 10.2. If you have something that works, you don't have to upgrade for a long time if you don't want to. It won't work worse tomorrow just because something new came out. Pre-roll. Look it up. Actually, it might be called count-in. Can't quite remember. (didn't actually let it load…first duck duck go result) http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Log...ser_Manual.pdf Thats what im gonna do man, im learning :-) Ill check out Pro Tools tho, not ever seen it before. And thanks, i checked up about pre-roll/count-in. and it said to go into settings > record and change it via that, but i have adjusted it in many ways and its still staying the same... Its basically one BAR extra at the begining, it doesnt start on bar 1. ive attatched some pics, hope u can help, thanks!!!
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by ksandvik Logic has more tools for MIDI editing, Live's usable but many tools are missing. care to expound on that, I'm curious.
Celine Surico 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by djdunamis what's wrong with the Midi? Logic has more tools for MIDI editing, Live's usable but many tools are missing.
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them
Dorie Scelzo 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by djdunamis It's not a conception, it's happened, look at Final Cut. Since then, always wonder if they're going to do that with Logic. Everyone does. Plus, the Mac Pros didn't get an update this summer. Or last year. It's a concern, but it's not a huge one, mostly because other software (Pro Tools, Cubase, Ableton, Maschine, etc.) will continue to work on OS X as long as they make real computers. You could eventually switch if you had to. Frankly, them dropping firwire from the Retina MBPs scares me a lot more than them fucking up with FCP X, because…… They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them……man, I hope it's the former. Then again, it's only pros and wanna-be pros that are pissed. People moving up from iMovie love it. And they'll never work with a post house or filmographer that can't open their movies. And there are a lot more people with a dSLR that can shoot video who want something that looks better than pressing pause on a cam-corder between shots than there are people making legit movies who care about opening old projects and exchanging stuff with other editors. Then again, just becuase FCP X is a worthless steaming pile of dog crap doesn't mean pros can't still use FCP 9……everyone I know who used FCP 9 is still using FCP 9 and debating between Media Composer and Premiere……and a lot of them are moving to Premiere just because they already have to use After Effects. Avid has one kind of stranglehold and Adobe has another. Apple has……iMovie. It makes perfect sense to me, even if it sucks for some people……who tend not to be early adopters anyway because they can't afford the downtime. Anyway…if you like Logic, then buy it and use it and who gives a flying fuck what Apple does with Logic 10. If it blows, don't upgrade. More than half the pro studio world is on Pro Tools 8……which was still built for Power PCs. The current version is 10.2. If you have something that works, you don't have to upgrade for a long time if you don't want to. It won't work worse tomorrow just because something new came out. Originally Posted by Superfreak Whats happened here, do you know? thanks in advanced. Pre-roll. Look it up. Actually, it might be called count-in. Can't quite remember. (didn't actually let it load…first duck duck go result) http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Log...ser_Manual.pdf
Wallace Lawmaster 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by ksandvik The biggest benefit with Logic versus Live is really the MIDI editing (as well as the built-in effects.) what's wrong with the Midi?
Temple Cervelli 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by djdunamis Maschine can be used in any DAW that supports VST, RTAS, AU. Two ways of using Maschine would be to create the beats and let them play off of it on a channel in your DAW. Second is like the first except once you're satisfied with the beats, export to wav and import it into Logic for further processing. Loopmasters is a good place to start. Zenheiser, Vengeance Music, Soundsonline, Zero G, Prime Loops are other good sites. Getting loops isn't the end of the world, chop 'em up and sample them as you please. Spend time with what you have, you got a good program to start with. If you feel Live works better for you, get it, if not, don't. Coool!! Hm, i believe im gonna get more used to Logic first then bring in maschine to it, but, how ever, i can say get a group with 16 sounds, say, a kick, clap, hat, some perc, some baselines and other blips n bleeps etc, and then export the group as WAV, onto my desktop, and then load them into logic and use them? so basically any particular sound i like from maschine, i can export, and open up in logic to use in my beat? Thanks ill check them out, ive noticed VENGEANCE seems to be liked, ill have to check out there stuff. Also, as a starting point, can u recommend a good way to start in logic? Like, using ultrabeat, or the esx24 or? Cheers!
Wallace Lawmaster 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by Superfreak "I have Maschine, can that be useful being used with Logic too? I opened it up as a VTS Plug-in in my trial version of ableton, but had NO idea what to do from then lol." "Okay then dude i will look out for one shot packs, i would prefer to make my own loops definitely!!! Can you recommend any? Im a House & Techno DJ Producer to be :-) so that kinda style sounds ill be looking for. Loopmasters? "I wont be waiting for Live 9! Want to start NOW! lol so going to spend time with logic 8 on my G5, and see how i feel in some time.& great, good to know that i can re-download it. Thanks!" "I am going to spend time with Logic pro 8, and see how i progress, when and if im at the stage of easily making my own tunes and using the plug-ins etc, ill see how i feel, and then decide on getting the logic pro 9 form appstore or ableton live 8, tbh, ill probabaly most definitely get ableton live 8, as i want to try out DJing with it, heard a lot of good FX come out of that in some of my favourite DJs sets, and also Paul Ritch using a M-Audi Evolution ucee3 to do some Craaaaazy stuff." Maschine can be used in any DAW that supports VST, RTAS, AU. Two ways of using Maschine would be to create the beats and let them play off of it on a channel in your DAW. Second is like the first except once you're satisfied with the beats, export to wav and import it into Logic for further processing. Loopmasters is a good place to start. Zenheiser, Vengeance Music, Soundsonline, Zero G, Prime Loops are other good sites. Getting loops isn't the end of the world, chop 'em up and sample them as you please. Spend time with what you have, you got a good program to start with. If you feel Live works better for you, get it, if not, don't.
Temple Cervelli 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by ksandvik You log in with your email address (see posting above.) It has nothing to do with your specific MBP. If you get a new one, log into App store and download Logic for it. Thanks for clearing that up mate.
Dorie Scelzo 12.07.2012	No idea. There might be a similar setting in playback. I don't remember changing it from the default when I was using Logic, and a count-in while recording was something I always used. And I don't have Logic installed because it's ready to be sold, so I can't check.
Temple Cervelli 11.07.2012	IMG_1555.jpg IMG_1556.jpg IMG_1557.jpg Originally Posted by mostapha Anyway…if you like Logic, then buy it and use it and who gives a flying fuck what Apple does with Logic 10. If it blows, don't upgrade. More than half the pro studio world is on Pro Tools 8……which was still built for Power PCs. The current version is 10.2. If you have something that works, you don't have to upgrade for a long time if you don't want to. It won't work worse tomorrow just because something new came out. Pre-roll. Look it up. Actually, it might be called count-in. Can't quite remember. (didn't actually let it load…first duck duck go result) http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Log...ser_Manual.pdf Thats what im gonna do man, im learning :-) Ill check out Pro Tools tho, not ever seen it before. And thanks, i checked up about pre-roll/count-in. and it said to go into settings > record and change it via that, but i have adjusted it in many ways and its still staying the same... Its basically one BAR extra at the begining, it doesnt start on bar 1. ive attatched some pics, hope u can help, thanks!!!
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by ksandvik Logic has more tools for MIDI editing, Live's usable but many tools are missing. care to expound on that, I'm curious.
Celine Surico 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by djdunamis what's wrong with the Midi? Logic has more tools for MIDI editing, Live's usable but many tools are missing.
Random X 11.07.2012	bye!
Oscar Asmann 11.07.2012	hi
Wallace Lawmaster 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by mostapha They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them
Dorie Scelzo 11.07.2012	Originally Posted by djdunamis It's not a conception, it's happened, look at Final Cut. Since then, always wonder if they're going to do that with Logic. Everyone does. Plus, the Mac Pros didn't get an update this summer. Or last year. It's a concern, but it's not a huge one, mostly because other software (Pro Tools, Cubase, Ableton, Maschine, etc.) will continue to work on OS X as long as they make real computers. You could eventually switch if you had to. Frankly, them dropping firwire from the Retina MBPs scares me a lot more than them fucking up with FCP X, because…… They know what they did with FCP X, but from what I can see, most of the pro world was using Premiere or Media Composer anyway. People are pissed, obviously, but they all just switched. And I believe Apple either learned their lesson or doesn't miss them……man, I hope it's the former. Then again, it's only pros and wanna-be pros that are pissed. People moving up from iMovie love it. And they'll never work with a post house or filmographer that can't open their movies. And there are a lot more people with a dSLR that can shoot video who want something that looks better than pressing pause on a cam-corder between shots than there are people making legit movies who care about opening old projects and exchanging stuff with other editors. Then again, just becuase FCP X is a worthless steaming pile of dog crap doesn't mean pros can't still use FCP 9……everyone I know who used FCP 9 is still using FCP 9 and debating between Media Composer and Premiere……and a lot of them are moving to Premiere just because they already have to use After Effects. Avid has one kind of stranglehold and Adobe has another. Apple has……iMovie. It makes perfect sense to me, even if it sucks for some people……who tend not to be early adopters anyway because they can't afford the downtime. Anyway…if you like Logic, then buy it and use it and who gives a flying fuck what Apple does with Logic 10. If it blows, don't upgrade. More than half the pro studio world is on Pro Tools 8……which was still built for Power PCs. The current version is 10.2. If you have something that works, you don't have to upgrade for a long time if you don't want to. It won't work worse tomorrow just because something new came out. Originally Posted by Superfreak Whats happened here, do you know? thanks in advanced. Pre-roll. Look it up. Actually, it might be called count-in. Can't quite remember. (didn't actually let it load…first duck duck go result) http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Log...ser_Manual.pdf
Temple Cervelli 10.07.2012	Yeah thats what im doing right now, drag n dropping samples into it, and then kinda modding the sound with some of the knobs in it, then pencil'in them in via the piano editor, thats the way ive learned to do it from a YT vid. i have lost the manual a long time ago whats drum machines plug-ins should i use with ultrabeat? im going to keep checking youtube for ultrabeat tutorials! :-) Yeah man i am going to learn the esx24 as well as ultrabeat! my mate said he uses esx24. I need help quick dude, on logic.... basically (and this is only just randomly happened)... At the start of my track, (i have it as Bar and time) it doesnt start with/at 'BAR 1' and/or '0.00 seconds', somehow it says '59:58 ........ 59:59 ...... THEN '0.00' and same with the BAR section, it doesnt start at BAR 1 it's showing as ' 0 ..... 0.3 ...... THEN .... BAR '1'.. Whats happened here, do you know? thanks in advanced.
Wallace Lawmaster 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by ksandvik The biggest benefit with Logic versus Live is really the MIDI editing (as well as the built-in effects.) what's wrong with the Midi?
Celine Surico 10.07.2012	I would learn UltraBeat in Logic first, it's highly programmable. Just read the manual section as there are simple gotchas such as having this drum machine plug-in running at the same time as the DAW and you might want or not want to do this. Most often I just export the patterns to an instrument track and stop Ultrabeat itself. Anyway, if all this sounds weird, there are plenty of good online tutorials on youtube showing Ultrabeat. Anyway, Ultrabeat, EXS24 sampler (wish Logic had a similar drag-and-drop sampler as Live but Ultrabeat could be used for this, too.) Basic loop import and adjusting, stuff like that. The biggest benefit with Logic versus Live is really the MIDI editing (as well as the built-in effects.)
Temple Cervelli 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by djdunamis Maschine can be used in any DAW that supports VST, RTAS, AU. Two ways of using Maschine would be to create the beats and let them play off of it on a channel in your DAW. Second is like the first except once you're satisfied with the beats, export to wav and import it into Logic for further processing. Loopmasters is a good place to start. Zenheiser, Vengeance Music, Soundsonline, Zero G, Prime Loops are other good sites. Getting loops isn't the end of the world, chop 'em up and sample them as you please. Spend time with what you have, you got a good program to start with. If you feel Live works better for you, get it, if not, don't. Coool!! Hm, i believe im gonna get more used to Logic first then bring in maschine to it, but, how ever, i can say get a group with 16 sounds, say, a kick, clap, hat, some perc, some baselines and other blips n bleeps etc, and then export the group as WAV, onto my desktop, and then load them into logic and use them? so basically any particular sound i like from maschine, i can export, and open up in logic to use in my beat? Thanks ill check them out, ive noticed VENGEANCE seems to be liked, ill have to check out there stuff. Also, as a starting point, can u recommend a good way to start in logic? Like, using ultrabeat, or the esx24 or? Cheers!
Celine Surico 10.07.2012	I believe Maschine is a cool idea but you need to be sold on its workflow, i.e. similar to AKAI MCP programming. I kind of cheat and use a Korg PadKontrol and trigger samples this way inside Logic or Live but this requires to set up sampler and drum machine tracks which takes time and with Maschine everything is ready for music making.
Wallace Lawmaster 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by Superfreak "I have Maschine, can that be useful being used with Logic too? I opened it up as a VTS Plug-in in my trial version of ableton, but had NO idea what to do from then lol." "Okay then dude i will look out for one shot packs, i would prefer to make my own loops definitely!!! Can you recommend any? Im a House & Techno DJ Producer to be :-) so that kinda style sounds ill be looking for. Loopmasters? "I wont be waiting for Live 9! Want to start NOW! lol so going to spend time with logic 8 on my G5, and see how i feel in some time.& great, good to know that i can re-download it. Thanks!" "I am going to spend time with Logic pro 8, and see how i progress, when and if im at the stage of easily making my own tunes and using the plug-ins etc, ill see how i feel, and then decide on getting the logic pro 9 form appstore or ableton live 8, tbh, ill probabaly most definitely get ableton live 8, as i want to try out DJing with it, heard a lot of good FX come out of that in some of my favourite DJs sets, and also Paul Ritch using a M-Audi Evolution ucee3 to do some Craaaaazy stuff." Maschine can be used in any DAW that supports VST, RTAS, AU. Two ways of using Maschine would be to create the beats and let them play off of it on a channel in your DAW. Second is like the first except once you're satisfied with the beats, export to wav and import it into Logic for further processing. Loopmasters is a good place to start. Zenheiser, Vengeance Music, Soundsonline, Zero G, Prime Loops are other good sites. Getting loops isn't the end of the world, chop 'em up and sample them as you please. Spend time with what you have, you got a good program to start with. If you feel Live works better for you, get it, if not, don't.
Temple Cervelli 10.07.2012	Wow thanks for all your replies!! I will reply to you all in this post, im not to great with community s, so dont know how to quote what all of you have said. But here goes: @RockingClub - I do know a lot of people that produce there beats in Logic, so its a good reason because i can ask mates for help if needed as they use the same and they say its easy to use of course once u have learned it. and thats cool then, most are wav from what ive seen anyway, i do worry sometimes if certains packs will work, thanks! @Tommi Bass - Yep I have tried a free trial of ableton, (i couldn't 'save' so i could never pick up from a previous project and progress, but still it looked and felt nice. Thanks. @mostapha - I believe I'm going to mate, i already have logic pro 8 on my G5, so im going to spend sometime learning that and see how i progress, depending on that, ill go for 9 on the app store or Ableton live 8. I have Maschine, can that be useful being used with Logic too? I opened it up as a VTS Plug-in in my trial version of ableton, but had NO idea what to do from then lol. I'm searching for tutorial videos on Logic on youtube atm, found a really good one on how to use the 'Ultrabeat' and some of the compressors and envelope stuff, and i made a good kick and penciled it into the piano roll, so im getting there :-) Just cant find many good 'basic/begginner' tutorials on YT Whats Logic Express? Thanks! @djdumanis - Yeah man ableton seems to look and feel easier, but i still havent made anything solid on there, but could do with spending more time in it, just a bummer becasue i cant save my projects on the trial version so can never picked up from a previous state. Okay then dude i will look out for one shot packs, i would prefer to make my own loops definitely!!! Can you recommend any? Im a House & Techno DJ Producer to be :-) so that kinda style sounds ill be looking for. Loopmasters? I wont be waiting for Live 9! Want to start NOW! lol so going to spend time with logic 8 on my G5, and see how i feel in some time. & great, good to know that i can re-download it. Thanks! If i missed any of you out, im sorry, my eyes are hurting lol. I am going to spend time with Logic pro 8, and see how i progress, when and if im at the stage of easily making my own tunes and using the plug-ins etc, ill see how i feel, and then decide on getting the logic pro 9 form appstore or ableton live 8, tbh, ill probabaly most definitely get ableton live 8, as i want to try out DJing with it, heard a lot of good FX come out of that in some of my favourite DJs sets, and also Paul Ritch using a M-Audi Evolution ucee3 to do some Craaaaazy stuff. If any of you live in/near South East London/Kent, and would like to spend sometime in the studio giving me some tutorials and help, id pay, (my mates are 'too busy remixing for new labels and stuff' to come down and spend some real time on logic with me lol.) Once again, thanks for all your replies! :-)
Wallace Lawmaster 10.07.2012	Most if not all DAW companies today will keep an account with them that stores your serial number in case of theft or loss. Also the ability to download the program and updates again.
Temple Cervelli 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by ksandvik You log in with your email address (see posting above.) It has nothing to do with your specific MBP. If you get a new one, log into App store and download Logic for it. Thanks for clearing that up mate.
Celine Surico 10.07.2012	I believe concerns are not really applicable for someone who wants to start doing production work and looks at Ableton Live and Apple's Logic. Just tired of seeing those posted over and over again as some kind of truth where it's mostly hear saying, guess work, assumptions, paranoia or something else than facts. Basically Logic has been dead ever since Apple acquired Emagic if you want to trust the concern makers.
Wallace Lawmaster 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by ksandvik So you make all kinds of assumptions about things that might not happen. more like concerns. Originally Posted by ksandvik Well, you might as well then state that Pro Tools abandoned the pro market as they have not released a 64-bit version yet... now that was pointless.
Celine Surico 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by djdunamis It's not a conception, it's happened, look at Final Cut. Since then, always wonder if they're going to do that with Logic. So you make all kinds of assumptions about things that might not happen. OK, that's Logic-al. Well, you might as well then state that Pro Tools abandoned the pro market as they have not released a 64-bit version yet...
Wallace Lawmaster 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by ksandvik How many times do I see this conception being printed over and over? With no justified basis. It's not a conception, it's happened, look at Final Cut. Since then, always wonder if they're going to do that with Logic.
Celine Surico 10.07.2012	Originally Posted by RockingClub R
Ervin Calvery 11.07.2012	It's in my signature, I know, but everyone keeps saying "I own both," so I will join in and say that I would go for Ableton and I own both. Mostapha has inspired me to try to find a workflow with Maschine + Pro Tools.
Sylvia Greener 10.07.2012	R
Wallace Lawmaster 10.07.2012	To the person who started this thread, You've already done a first step and tried out some of the software. If Ableton Live is easy for you to work with, then go for it. If you're wanting to DJ with it, then there's another good reason. Everyone is gonna give their opinion and what they work with. It all boils down to what works best for you and your creativity. I have a lot of friends that use Live and make good music. Good music can be made with any DAW. I would focus more on getting one shot samples rather than just loops. Get samples and make your own loops. But using loops in Live, make use of the warp and cut to midi function if you're going to. 64 bit deal with Ableton will help with allowing Live to make use of more RAM is one key feature. I wouldn't wait for Live 9, I haven't seen any concrete news on it yet or a release date, just speculation on what it would have and some getting a sneak peak at it in beta form. If you bought 8 and it comes out within a year, they probably will do some type of grace period. Logic, great program, but noticing that Apple stuck it in the app store and dropped the price. Sure that cut the cost and seems to have not lost any features. I have Pro Tools so didn't need to try it. But after getting screwed over with the whole Final Cut deal. Logic owners I would keep an eye on Apple.
Dorie Scelzo 10.07.2012	Personally, I'd choose Logic…and I own both. Now, I'd also choose Maschine + Pro Tools over either of them, which is what I currently use. You have to use what you're comfortable with, and there's no way to really tell what you're comfortable with except to use both after you have an idea what you're doing……while keeping an open mind about the different workflows. My suggestion is to watch a lot of tutorial videos and pick the one that seems to make the most sense. <shameless plug> I also have my boxed copy of Logic Express for sale for $100 if you want it…there's information on Apple's website about the differences between Express and Pro. </shameless plug>

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Want to properly start producing my own music - Logic or Ableton?