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DJing with sync, mixing in/handover

Home :: General Discussion :: DJing with sync, mixing in/handoverReply

DJing with sync, mixing in/handover Posted on: 17.11.2013 by Monroe Vandeslunt So if you did not know how to beatmatch and relied on sync. How do you mix into the previous DJ? It has only occurred to me recently after all these years that if you rocked up with your controller and only knew how to press the sync button to beatmatch you could not flawlessly mix into the last tune. Unless you at least knew some rudimentary basics of beatmatching. So I am a bit confused on how all these DJ's who rely on sync do this?
Hellen Mindrup 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by ImNotDedYet I suppose my non-important opinion is this: there are two ways to look at it. If the dude is playing his first gig and isn't being paid, he/she may not know any better and it probably isn't that important - even though I personally would know exactly what I was getting into and be prepared for anything. But...that's just me. If the dude's getting paid, then he/she SHOULD know what is in store, including potentially having to mix into the prior DJ's song. And...as a professional, the incoming DJ should be prepared for anything...having backups knowing how to transition into other DJs sets, or even being able to play off a completely different system should his/hers have issues. Basically, if you're going to be a pro and get paid for gigs...know your damn music without the help of sync/BPM readouts/phase meters/electronic waveforms, know how to use any damn system you may encounter, and know how to mix on any of those systems. I'm not a pro, so screw it, I'll use sync. Unless I'm mixing my vinyl. As of late, I've noticed a lot of kids getting ahead of themselves when it comes to spinning out... At least in my area... Sure, you know the promoter, you are boys and he can book you... But why in God's name would you accept a club gig at a very well known venue if you can't DJ? Sure it's exciting, but I always say it's better to be unknown versus being known to fail.
Lakeesha Storman 18.11.2013	I suppose my non-important opinion is this: there are two ways to look at it. If the dude is playing his first gig and isn't being paid, he/she may not know any better and it probably isn't that important - even though I personally would know exactly what I was getting into and be prepared for anything. But...that's just me. If the dude's getting paid, then he/she SHOULD know what is in store, including potentially having to mix into the prior DJ's song. And...as a professional, the incoming DJ should be prepared for anything...having backups knowing how to transition into other DJs sets, or even being able to play off a completely different system should his/hers have issues. Basically, if you're going to be a pro and get paid for gigs...know your damn music without the help of sync/BPM readouts/phase meters/electronic waveforms, know how to use any damn system you may encounter, and know how to mix on any of those systems. I'm not a pro, so screw it, I'll use sync. Unless I'm mixing my vinyl.
Hellen Mindrup 19.11.2013	Originally Posted by amadeus I don't really care what people use to play music, nor do I agree that if you don't play vinyl your not a real DJ. But I have to say if you can't beatmatch then it's a bit of a grey area, I believe you should know how to, If you can only DJ with the aid of software, if that software does crash, and you can't use anything else, then...well your screwed, can't DJ then. You are limiting yourself to using only one medium if you can't beatmatch manually, I'm not saying you should go out and buy CDJ's or turntables, but to know the gear and have the knowledge to use them is beneficial. If you have a room full of people, and halfway through your set the computer crashes, your gonna look a bit of a dick just standing there while it reboots. Be prepared, CD's, thumb drives are your friend. Nah just plug in your iPhone and you can dj with your phone for 4 hours. Everyone will be impressed.
Lawana Mileto 19.11.2013	Originally Posted by Kwal I believe everyone should carry CDs... If you can't mix with them, stay home. Agreed.
Lawana Mileto 19.11.2013	Originally Posted by FilthyDave I just don't like the whole luddite mentallity of 'you're not a proper DJ unless you can' or 'Real DJ's use vinyl' It's a load of rubbish! I don't really care what people use to play music, nor do I agree that if you don't play vinyl your not a real DJ. But I have to say if you can't beatmatch then it's a bit of a grey area, I believe you should know how to, If you can only DJ with the aid of software, if that software does crash, and you can't use anything else, then...well your screwed, can't DJ then. You are limiting yourself to using only one medium if you can't beatmatch manually, I'm not saying you should go out and buy CDJ's or turntables, but to know the gear and have the knowledge to use them is beneficial. If you have a room full of people, and halfway through your set the computer crashes, your gonna look a bit of a dick just standing there while it reboots. Be prepared, CD's, thumb drives are your friend.
Hellen Mindrup 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by FilthyDave I keep a thumb drive with a few hundred tunes on as a backup as well these days. Traktor is becoming so ubiquitous it's often just as easy to borrow someone else's laptop and plug that in if your laptop goes belly up If my controller (S4) went down I've also got an Audio 8 in my bag and I can use my laptops keyboard and run through a mixer I carry a few CD's as well just in case everything dies! I believe it's wise to have some redundancy and to know how to beatmatch I just don't like the whole luddite mentallity of 'you're not a proper DJ unless you can' or 'Real DJ's use vinyl' It's a load of rubbish! I believe everyone should carry CDs... If you can't mix with them, stay home.
Narcisa Hughie 18.11.2013	I keep a thumb drive with a few hundred tunes on as a backup as well these days. Traktor is becoming so ubiquitous it's often just as easy to borrow someone else's laptop and plug that in if your laptop goes belly up If my controller (S4) went down I've also got an Audio 8 in my bag and I can use my laptops keyboard and run through a mixer I carry a few CD's as well just in case everything dies! I believe it's wise to have some redundancy and to know how to beatmatch I just don't like the whole luddite mentallity of 'you're not a proper DJ unless you can' or 'Real DJ's use vinyl' It's a load of rubbish!
Hellen Mindrup 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by amadeus Haha, exactly my point. If you want to be taken as a serious DJ, then learn the craft, this involves manualy beat matching. This kid obviously dint want to be taken seriously, good job you were there to save him. Computers do crash, at least take a back up CD, oh wait if you cant beatmatch, then what you gonna do. The amazing thing about Traktor is that you can hide the BPM, hide the phase meter and learn to beatmatch. It's lazy not too. I've tried to get my friends to challenge themselves a bit but they are too used to the computer doing the job for them. After like one failed transition they're screaming for me to put the phase meter back.
Lawana Mileto 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by FilthyDave DJ'ing is 90% tune selection, 10% skills. If they are rocking the floor it doesn't matter how they are doing it Do I use sync? Yes I f**king do! It's easier and I'm a lazy sod. Why would I waste time and make things harder for myself? That said I do believe you should learn how to beatmatch as Traktor never gets the beatgrids 100% and sometimes it's wildly out but to learn just so you can garner the respect of other DJ's is just an ego trip. Don't disagree, 90% of DJing is tune selection, they could have flawless mixing skills, wouldnt give a toss though if their tune selections shit. I'm not disagreing with the use of SYNC at all, what I've been saying is, a DJ should be flexible, and be able to mix on CD etc if the comp crashes. If you can't manually beat match then the crowds in for a train ride. Don't learn to beatmatch to gain respect, but have some respect for the craft of DJing and learn the fundamentals, it will only benefit you in the long run. Completely agree about letting the last DJ's tune run out. And yeah can work in a dj's favour, start afresh and take them in a new direction.
Narcisa Hughie 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by Nicadraus To me, a sync DJ or a waveform reading DJ is a wannabe. They can't have the respect from those DJs who are truly passionate about the craft/art and developed their skills by going through the proper path. I personally believe this is a crock of shit DJ'ing is 90% tune selection, 10% skills. If they are rocking the floor it doesn't matter how they are doing it I was solely vinyl from 1997 to 2010 when I moved on to Traktor Do I use sync? Yes I f**king do! It's easier and I'm a lazy sod. Why would I waste time and make things harder for myself? That said I do believe you should learn how to beatmatch as Traktor never gets the beatgrids 100% and sometimes it's wildly out but to learn just so you can garner the respect of other DJ's is just an ego trip. What other DJ's believe is irrelevant (unless they are also promoters and you're looking for a booking) all that matters is the crowd on the dancefloor. If they aren't bouncing off the walls you're not doing your job properly! With regards mixing into the previous DJ it entirely depends on what they've left you with, what the crowd is doing and how well they've gone down. If they've just played a rocking set then actually letting their last tune play out and encouraging the crowd to cheer for them not only lets them get the credit they deserve but also frames the start of your set with some good vibes. You generally find the crowd are more receptive to you taking it in a different direction from this point
Lawana Mileto 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by Kwal Lol, funny you mention that... The other Thursday I had to spin at a very well known venue here in Chicago... And of course they hired some kid who had never even played out before to spin before me on his S2. Well, long story short, his S2 cut out completely on him 5 minutes before I was to go on and he had no idea what to do lol. Lucky enough I had already gone up there and plugged my USB into one of the 2000's ahead of time.. All I had to do was hit play Haha, exactly my point. If you want to be taken as a serious DJ, then learn the craft, this involves manualy beat matching. This kid obviously dint want to be taken seriously, good job you were there to save him. Computers do crash, at least take a back up CD, oh wait if you cant beatmatch, then what you gonna do. The amazing thing about Traktor is that you can hide the BPM, hide the phase meter and learn to beatmatch. It's lazy not too.
Osvaldo Newhall 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by Kwal I'm all for this, but now a days people believe I'm being mean, an elitist, etc. Well those people who believe that learning to beat match is a way of the "elitists" are just lazy to learn it or they just don't have the right skill of becoming what it takes to be a real DJ. Reasons like: "I use sync so I can be more creative with effects, EQs, acapellas, etc. My answer is: "Watch Roger Sanchez. He beat matches with 4 decks with creativity combined." Once you get the hang of learning the proper way of mixing, it only takes 5 to 8 secs to match the tempo of two tracks. So how could that be a hindrance to creativeness of other things that you could do? To me, a sync DJ or a waveform reading DJ is a wannabe. They can't have the respect from those DJs who are truly passionate about the craft/art and developed their skills by going through the proper path.
Hellen Mindrup 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by amadeus haha, oh well, keep saying it! Saying someone should learn to beatmatch is not being elitist or at least it shouldn't be, its a fundamental part of djing that with the rise of software etc seems to be overlooked part. If you struggle to mix into the last DJs track, seriously just learn to beatmatch, what if your controller dies mid set, you just gonna stop and say I cant mix on anything else? I can use vinyl, cd, and software, I'm not being big headed, just stating, that if for some reason a needle broke, I could mix on CD's, or if I wanted to take traktor along. Its all about being flexible. If you havent learnt to beat match and can't mix on anything but traktor, are you helping yourself? No. Lol, funny you mention that... The other Thursday I had to spin at a very well known venue here in Chicago... And of course they hired some kid who had never even played out before to spin before me on his S2. Well, long story short, his S2 cut out completely on him 5 minutes before I was to go on and he had no idea what to do lol. Lucky enough I had already gone up there and plugged my USB into one of the 2000's ahead of time.. All I had to do was hit play
Lawana Mileto 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by Kwal I'm all for this, but now a days people believe I'm being mean, an elitist, etc. haha, oh well, keep saying it! Saying someone should learn to beatmatch is not being elitist or at least it shouldn't be, its a fundamental part of djing that with the rise of software etc seems to be overlooked part. If you struggle to mix into the last DJs track, seriously just learn to beatmatch, what if your controller dies mid set, you just gonna stop and say I cant mix on anything else? I can use vinyl, cd, and software, I'm not being big headed, just stating, that if for some reason a needle broke, I could mix on CD's, or if I wanted to take traktor along. Its all about being flexible. If you havent learnt to beat match and can't mix on anything but traktor, are you helping yourself? No.
Hellen Mindrup 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by amadeus Learn to beatmatch. I'm all for this, but now a days people believe I'm being mean, an elitist, etc.
Lawana Mileto 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by JZed However, I really don't see it being an issue to ask the previous DJ (if they're using vinyl) the approx BPM they're using. At that point, you still have to use your ear, it just means it's not as much of a pain when there is already a lot to worry about when starting your set. I only play vinyl, and tbh I don't put bpms on my records, nor do I use a bpm counter. I mainly play with other DJs who also use vinyl, never asked about BPM, I just mix the next record in, why is it any different with different formats. Seriously though, if you can't mix into the previous DJ then you really need to learn how to, it's a basic skill that all DJs should know, I can mix into someone playing CD or using a controller, so for someone using one of those formats not being able to mix into me, bit of a joke. Learn to beatmatch.
Hellen Mindrup 18.11.2013	A trick I'd recommend is to echo out of the previous DJ's track... You're going to run into a Pioneer mixer 9 out of 10 times so that should be the best bet. Echo out smoothly, and start your track at the beginning of a break... As long as you're somewhat smooth it'll sound ok... Just wait until the appropriate time to do it, not just at some random part of the song. This is what I would do when the DJ before me plays some shit fucking track that won't work with anything I got.
Sherrell Dargenio 18.11.2013	Gotta agree with learning the basic fundamentals for DJing. I see it as the only real way to do it, I also don't see why anybody wouldn't want to know it all if they really care about what they're doing. However, I really don't see it being an issue to ask the previous DJ (if they're using vinyl) the approx BPM they're using. At that point, you still have to use your ear, it just means it's not as much of a pain when there is already a lot to worry about when starting your set.
Lillia Datson 18.11.2013	I believe people often believe that the crowd will surge forth and rip you to pieces, because lord forbid a beat should be dropped out of place I believe a fade out or an intro works just fine, as long you don't completely jar the room up by jumping genres too drastically.
Osvaldo Newhall 18.11.2013	Originally Posted by DJSigma What you could do, is actually learn the basic fundamental skills of DJing, instead of being like a kid who didn't learn his times tables and went straight on to using a calculator. Just a thought. ^^^Exactly!
Monroe Vandeslunt 18.11.2013	My question was not because I can't beatmatch. Rather I wanted to know the experiences of DJ's who couldn't beatmatch and what they did in situations where the mix into the previous DJ. The question came about because I watched someone attempt that. I knew they couldn't beatmatch very well as they relied on sync.
Lakeesha Storman 18.11.2013	Yeah dude, learning to beatmatch really isn't that hard. Get your stuff on beat and ride the pitch control if necessary to keep the beats matched until you've entirely faded into your setup. And getting your stuff on beat is so easy with digital files and cue points, much easier than vinyl. All you need is to be relatively beat matched for eight bars. You could also open your set with a part of a song that's just a long synth or effect sounding thing that really has no rhythm, fade out from previous dj's setup to yours before the rhythm kicks in. But I see no reason to not practice beat matching for when those situations occur.
Latoria Kavulich 17.11.2013	shameless brutal crossfade
Ada Matzkin 17.11.2013	I can't expect a dj that has never beat matched to be able to pull off a flawless set even with sync..maybe I'm wrong here. That Said I did beat match for a long while 15 years or so, and now just sync. Usually I just let the other djs song end, and wait a beat or 2 for effect and to reset the vibe , then drop my first tune. If this simply won't do then I can still match it up, but that's rare.
Irina Passarella 17.11.2013	Originally Posted by DJSigma What you could do, is actually learn the basic fundamental skills of DJing, instead of being like a kid who didn't learn his times tables and went straight on to using a calculator. Just a thought. ^^^^ This
Lina Rawie 17.11.2013	What you could do, is actually learn the basic fundamental skills of DJing, instead of being like a kid who didn't learn his times tables and went straight on to using a calculator. Just a thought.
Gaynell Rydberg 17.11.2013	Hell you can BPM tap in Traktor.
Rodger Seferovic 17.11.2013	Use a BPM tap app on your smart phone.
Layne Koop 17.11.2013	You could use one of these techniques...since they do not all rely on seamless beatmatching. That said...grabbing the mic is the 20 pound sledge hammer of transitions...
Augustine Mitzen 17.11.2013	pull it/fade it, start fresh
Gaynell Rydberg 17.11.2013	I mean of course you just don't cut out their track. You let it play to close then you start up your set.
Lawana Mileto 17.11.2013	i'd love to see a guy who only use sync, mix their stuff into a guy playing vinyl. And seriously who asks the last DJ the bpm of their last track, that made me laugh. And unless your the headliner, you do not just cut it out. Even if you believe this is the best way, be courteous and let the last dj's track play out. Rude if you just suddenly cut it half way through.
Tesha Freudenstein 17.11.2013	Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50 Pretty much every major DJ that has come through my city to play a show has had a hype up/intro mix made. They just kill the opener DJ's set and then start up the headliner's intro. And as far as local DJs, they all digital DJ so that has never been a problem. I dunno. It just seems like you're exaggerating the problem. A 0.1-0.2 BPM discrepancy isn't going to be extremely noticeable especially if they're doing a very quick transition. yeah, but there are those that have no idea how to match two tracks manually. at all. i've witnessed some guys trying and failing miserably trying to mix into the guy before him. he was so off that they had to fade out which kinda killed the mood the guy before him had going on (sidenote: the guy that had no clue was a regular at one of the clubs in town at that time).
Gaynell Rydberg 17.11.2013	Pretty much every major DJ that has come through my city to play a show has had a hype up/intro mix made. They just kill the opener DJ's set and then start up the headliner's intro. And as far as local DJs, they all digital DJ so that has never been a problem. I dunno. It just seems like you're exaggerating the problem. A 0.1-0.2 BPM discrepancy isn't going to be extremely noticeable especially if they're doing a very quick transition.
Monroe Vandeslunt 17.11.2013	Cut it out? Are you serious? I agree that DJ's should be prepared with the BPM of their sets. It is often a common curtesy at the gigs I play at to know beforehand what the previous DJ is expecting to leave the BPM at so you can design the beginning of your set to start at that BPM. However even then the previous DJ is not going to leave it at an exact BPM and unless they are using software or something like the latest CDJ 2000 are they going to be able to report to you the exact BPM the track is playing at. At every gig I play, the music is continuous with no breaks and seamless from the beginning of the evening to the last tune.
Gaynell Rydberg 17.11.2013	You can just cut it out entirely and have an introduction/hype up. I mean no matter what, the DJ should have prepared for their set by knowing the BPM of their songs. They aren't gonna go into the booth and have no clue what the BPM is. You can just ask the previous DJ the BPM. I really don't believe it's that big of an issue, but I'm just speculating. Very rarely do the DJs here actually mix seamlessly.
Monroe Vandeslunt 17.11.2013	Right so if the last DJ was using real vinyl what do you do? Or an old CDJ 1000 MK3 with no accurate BPM readout? Also there is no quantise between two systems so its highly unlikely you can drop it perfectly on the first beat and not need to fine tune it with some pitch bending of some sort.
Gaynell Rydberg 17.11.2013	I mean you can just see what the current BPM is and then set your track BPM to match it. It's not that hard to drop the song on the beat.

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