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Midi Fighter 3D?

Home :: MIDIfighter Resources and Discussion :: Midi Fighter 3D?Reply

Midi Fighter 3D? Posted on: 27.02.2012 by Arletha Heddens Just saw the new blog post.... Seems like an awesome idea, but i honestly believe that's a little bit too... far? I really can't see this style of controller taking off, because lets face it... We arn't all as energetic as Ean when playing a set :L Well at least, i definitely am not. And i guess it would be a 'center piece' controller... As in the main controller, because with the classic or pro, they were kind of additions to a setup where you could reach over and tap in a few effects, but this seems to be much more like a game controller where it needs to ALWAYS be in your hands. I guess it has a freaking WOW factor, because lets face it. That is a seriously awesome piece of hardware, just seems to be over the top for what it should be. And i don't believe anyone saw this kind of construction coming as the 'new djtt controller'... But yeah. Thoughts?
Adolf Hit 01.03.2012	What happens if the CC's are till turned on, however the unit is placed on an angle of some sort? Would it continuously send a certain tilt CC? They work just like a fader would - the CC is only sent when the is a change in value, realistically it would be hard to hold it still enough, even on a stand, so it would send out CC fairly frequently, but as long as it isnt mapped it wont effect anything.
Alla Bluemke 01.03.2012	I had a thought. I know people are using iPads with TouchOsc, and since it could technically be used in the same way, and has a accelerometer in it couldn't an ipad be adapter in the same way as a 3d with touch osc, and it work over an adhoc network? I don't believe touch osc utilizes the motion sensor yet but it could soon with mappings like the mf3d.....
Chasidy Heckenbach 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by midifidler Yeah from memory the total time to write that info is something in the order of 100 ms so we def dont want to be writing to EEPROM sure - no need at all as the colours won't need to persist. i'm sure the firmware is already flexible enough tbh anyway, some extra tweaks are just he icing on the cake. interesting times anyway... MF-3d, NI F1, A&H K2 plus all the new behringer units... shame i doubt i could justify buying them all i believe i'm most interested in a 3d+k2 and one of the behringer units tho...
Arnetta Koskinas 29.02.2012	NEEEEEED IT! Set my classic to hot cues and use this as the ultimate effects unit...and shake it like a polaroid picture!
Arletha Heddens 29.02.2012	What happens if the CC's are till turned on, however the unit is placed on an angle of some sort? Would it continuously send a certain tilt CC?
Kimberly Lewark 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by mart21har Is there an ability to turn the 3d messages off? i just want to use it with the RGB led's during my gigs.. Yes. You have two options here: You can simply not map the CCs to anything You can disable the various motion options (ie rotation, tilt, etc) individually in the configuration utility and they won't output any CCs.
Asha Kravetz 29.02.2012	Is there an ability to turn the 3d messages off? i just want to use it with the RGB led's during my gigs..
Adolf Hit 29.02.2012	Yeah from memory the total time to write that info is something in the order of 100 ms so we def dont want to be writing to EEPROM
Kimberly Lewark 29.02.2012	Originally Posted by midifidler I may look into that for a future firmware release. The problem is that color settings are like a sysex dump style parameter - you don't need all of them being sent at all time. We would need to find some way of triggering a midi dump at start up Another issue with the sysex messages is that currently it will save the changes to eeprom right away. Maybe for a future version it should be split into two: upload color data and save to eeprom.
Adolf Hit 29.02.2012	cool. just be awesome if the idea from guywithknife was added in so these default active/inactive colours can also be set over midi. no need to write to eeprom ofc - as they don't need to persist after a power cycle. Technically they are being set by MIDI already - but in the form of SYSEX I may look into that for a future firmware release. The problem is that color settings are like a sysex dump style parameter - you don't need all of them being sent at all time. We would need to find some way of triggering a midi dump at start up
Christal Jonason 01.03.2012	I've felt for it in no time I'd love to see the mapping but going 2 buy one 4 sure
Delmar Swamy 28.02.2012	Sloganfor the 3D: "Wanna rock out like skrillex while ACTUALLY Djing, at a 3d and rock out like a dubstep pro
Chasidy Heckenbach 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by guywithknife With careful mapping, you can do everything you want, I believe. You just have to send notes to change the colour with most buttons. cool, should be good... @Midifidler: maybe as part of some future firmware update, the ability to change the stored active/inactive colour using MIDI notes could be added. IE a "change and hold colour" that lets you set the colours and then it uses the active and inactive colours as normal when the button is pressed and released. That way everyone would be catered for. +1 As an aside, I believe I saw somewhere that midimasher uses RtMidi - so does the config utility. yep, midimasher uses rtmidi (and hidapi for hid device support). i do remember noticing before that the midi fighter utility also uses rtmidi. its a nice lib and great removing any platform dependencies. (if only windows could dynamically create virtual midi ports tho ) Originally Posted by midifidler This is correct - if you send a velocity 0 it just undoes any midi control of the color, and the inactive/active color default will be used. cool. just be awesome if the idea from guywithknife was added in so these default active/inactive colours can also be set over midi. no need to write to eeprom ofc - as they don't need to persist after a power cycle.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by midifidler This is correct - if you send a velocity 0 it just undoes any midi control of the color, and the inactive/active color default will be used. that sounds like really cool implimentation of the leds, nice work!
Adolf Hit 28.02.2012	I assume "no effect" means that it has no external effect and that it uses the active colour when the button is pressed and inactive otherwise. Or maybe it really does mean that the colour does not change at all and to use the active/inactive colours you simply don't send a note to the MF at all in the mapping. Honestly, I'm cool with either one of those. This is correct - if you send a velocity 0 it just undoes any midi control of the color, and the inactive/active color default will be used.
Kimberly Lewark 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by zestoi you're still choosing surely tho from the 20 currently setup for that specific midi fighter via this tho?: Yes, you basically set the colour as you would with the utility, but on the fly. Originally Posted by zestoi so you're still relying on the user having the same 20 colours setup as you. No, they're 20 preselected preset colours. Also, the utility has the option of importing and exporting your configuration, which includes the active/inactive colour mapping for all four banks. With careful mapping, you can do everything you want, I believe. You just have to send notes to change the colour with most buttons. For example, if you have two modes A and B which can be toggled between and the inactive colour for a certain button is for A is red and for B is blue, then you would send a "red" command when mode A is activated and when the button is released while in mode A. You would then send a "blue" command when mode B is activated and when the button is released while in mode B. Not 100% fool proof as the colour will be wrong temporarily if you hold the button while switching modes... and it does complicate the mapping a bit, but it should work well enough for most use cases. @Midifidler: maybe as part of some future firmware update, the ability to change the stored active/inactive colour using MIDI notes could be added. IE a "change and hold colour" that lets you set the colours and then it uses the active and inactive colours as normal when the button is pressed and released. That way everyone would be catered for. Originally Posted by zestoi might be slightly odd to midi map tho in some applications if sending a velocity of 0 has "no effect". surely that should either turn off the led or at least select the "inactive" colour or something? I assume "no effect" means that it has no external effect and that it uses the active colour when the button is pressed and inactive otherwise. Or maybe it really does mean that the colour does not change at all and to use the active/inactive colours you simply don't send a note to the MF at all in the mapping. Honestly, I'm cool with either one of those. Originally Posted by zestoi midimasher ... if its not going to be released as open source I know its not as useful as having the firmware open source, but the config utility is being open sourced (whenever I finally get around to uploading it to github). At least, the MF Pro version is, not sure about the MF3D as open sourcing it was not part of our arrangement (though there's a good chance that it will be open too) - the MF3D version has been expanded a little to make its plugin system more useful (and the colour changing code is written as a plugin - with some digging its possible to find out how its done - in theory midimasher could make use of this to change active/inactive colours on the fly, though I'm not sure how well that would work performance wise or if it means the eeprom would eventually be rewritten enough times to break it... midifidler will know about the latter). As an aside, I believe I saw somewhere that midimasher uses RtMidi - so does the config utility.
Chasidy Heckenbach 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c I would use colors for different layers in the mapping kind of like the k2 only this would afford many more possibilities as it's all controlled internally by the software, whereas the k2 and vci400 are controlled externally in the hardware with a simple on/off. Originally Posted by midifidler By using four banks mode and the utility a novice mapper can choose the pressed or not pressed color for each button in each of the four banks and then directly map each button in each page, this does not require any advanced mapping techniques. looks like you could colour code the 4 banks ala k2 quite easily and then just send on/off messages. might be slightly odd to midi map tho in some applications if sending a velocity of 0 has "no effect". surely that should either turn off the led or at least select the "inactive" colour or something? the launchpad in flashing mode has a similar issue where you need to send "4" to turn a pad off, not "0". seems that some advanced possibilities have been sacrificed to make it easier to use for most people. sounds sensible and something i should believe about in midimasher as while it can do just about anything needed midi wise it's difficult to get into and hence probably used by no one an alternative firmware for the midifighter to expand on the more advanced possibilities would be very cool tho if its not going to be released as open source.
Adolf Hit 28.02.2012	Actually if the 5 accelerometers are sending absolute values, would it be possible to replace them with potentiometers for better more realistic control? This would be a serious hack involving firmware - the accelerometer, gyroscope, and compass communications are all digital. There is no "Expansion Header" in this Midi Fighter. The reason we included the inactive/active color functionality is most of our users are pretty afraid of mapping anything let alone having to use modifiers to create dynamic displays. By using four banks mode and the utility a novice mapper can choose the pressed or not pressed color for each button in each of the four banks and then directly map each button in each page, this does not require any advanced mapping techniques.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 28.02.2012	I use flashing leds all the time for things that need your attention eg, remaining time on track less than 30 secs effect active kills track not loaded pause looping I use different flash rates depending on the importance I give to the action. but really anything that oould adversly affect what you are playing and demands your attention, even using different colours it is an absolute necessity to have blinking leds so you can identify things immediately. I would use colors for different layers in the mapping kind of like the k2 only this would afford many more possibilities as it's all controlled internally by the software, whereas the k2 and vci400 are controlled externally in the hardware with a simple on/off. It's a bit of a pain to map initially as you have to contend with 20 different led colors but would pay off in the long run as you have much more in depth feedback from the software. @midifiddler Actually if the 5 accelerometers are sending absolute values, would it be possible to replace them with potentiometers for better more realistic control?
Chin Thoroughgood 28.02.2012	April is going to be a GREAT month, first the kontrol f1 and traktor 2.5, now this?!?! I cannot wait to get all of this sweet gear and take my live performances to the next level! So stoked for this! Great job DJTT! You guys are the best and will forever receive my support as long as you continue to follow your original mission; and this controller has definitely shown me that you guys haven't strayed from it at all.
Chasidy Heckenbach 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c Another question any chance of a release without the accelerometers, maybe a mfpro with 4 encoders with led rings would be more useful to anyone but bedroom dj's i guess it's already cheap enough, just ignore the accelerometers? a lot of people seem to be asking the same question tho... i'm more excited about the rgb colours and the extra four buttons to switch banks, as it always seemed a waste using four arcade buttons just to select them and i never got round to soldering on some extra ones. the shift buttons are handy too. i just see the accelerometers as being an added bonues.
Chasidy Heckenbach 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c how do the leds receive a signal to light a specific color and flash at the same time? do they receive both messages to do it. i don't believe you can: Velocity 0 = No Effect Velocity 66 - 86 = Directly set the color to one of the 20 available settings. Velocity 86 - 102 = Uses the inactive color, set to one of 15 brightness levels Velocity 103 - 118 = Uses the active color, set to one of 15 brightness levels Velocity 119 = RGB Color cycle at 1 Hz Velocity 120 = Red 1 Hz cycle Velocity 121 = Green 1 Hz cycle Velocity 122 = Blue 1 Hz cycle Velocity 123 = Active Color Flash on the beat Velocity 124 = Active Color Flash on the half beat Velocity 125 = Active Color Flash on the quarter beat Velocity 126 = Active Color Flash on the eighth beat Velocity 127 = Active Color Flash on the sixteenth beat it looks like you can set a pad to flash in unsynched in rgb, red, green or blue or have it flash synched via the "active color" which sounds like it is the colour you preset via the utility - not changeable via midi. unless "active colour" is the last color you sent to it over midi which would be very cool - effectively allowing you to change the preset active colour? i'm not quite sure why having preset active/inactive colours for each pad is at all useful tho i guess it's kind of like choosing different colour arcade buttons for a midi fighter classic? so in that respect maybe neat if people don't want to worry about what velocities are send over midi, being able to choose from 20 colours is more than enough, but being able to activate/deactivate them flashing would be very nice. the launchpad has a neat method for flashing leds in sync with an external source not using midi clock - it (in effect) turns off all leds tagged as "flashing" when you send it a certain CC and on again when u send it another one. midi ticks is probably easier for most things tho... having said all this i'm not a massive fan of flashing leds tho handy to identify if you have a kill switch enabled or something and i do use it for the play buttons usually.
Chasidy Heckenbach 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by midifidler The default for the utility is 10 colors each with two intensities nice! lol... Our mappings will control all color via midi, rather than relying on the user having to use the utility to set the colors to match our mapping. But for most people the utility will be the simplest way to go you're still choosing surely tho from the 20 currently setup for that specific midi fighter via this tho?: Velocity 66 - 86 = Directly set the color to one of the 20 available settings. so you're still relying on the user having the same 20 colours setup as you. being able to share the mapping for those 20 to rgb values as well as static on/off colours will be very handy. which i believe is what you said will be possible... Our mappings will control all color via midi, rather than relying on the user having to use the utility to set the colors to match our mapping. But for most people the utility will be the simplest way to go i'd certainly rather be able to do all config via midi too if possible...
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 28.02.2012	how do the leds receive a signal to light a specific color and flash at the same time? do they receive both messages to do it. I would be interested in setting it up in vdj but the way things are defined for a note on message I could only send one value at a time eg. Velocity 66 - 86 = Directly set the color to one of the 20 available settings. lets say value = 66 = red = 0x42 Velocity = 123 = Active Color Flash on the beat = 0x7B So would I define it as two seperate note on messages not just one... Is that how it works in traktor? <led note="0x00" value="0x42" name="LED 1 red" /> <led note="0x00" value="0x7B" name="flash on beat" /> Although If i can control only the colour then I can make it flash with vdj's native script language anyway... So i guess it's not that important.. Another question any chance of a release without the accelerometers, maybe a mfpro with 4 encoders with led rings would be more useful to anyone but bedroom dj's
Adolf Hit 28.02.2012	i presume the "active color flash" is down to midi clock ticks and nothing traktor-specific? Correct - the MIDI Fighter just looks for a midi clock signal and sync's to that. i'd just reprogram those 20 to be 10 different colours with two levels of intensity each. The default for the utility is 10 colors each with two intensities The plugin config file could be shared between users if you want to share your custom colors, it is just a case of dropping it into the plugin folder. Also the utility has the ability to import and export color maps, these files can be shared between users. So if a user creates a custom mapping, and has a color map to go with it, that file can be shared with the .tsi so other users can instantly configure the color layout of their unit to match. Our mappings will control all color via midi, rather than relying on the user having to use the utility to set the colors to match our mapping. But for most people the utility will be the simplest way to go
Chasidy Heckenbach 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by midifidler You can only modify the intensity of the Inactive or Active Color - that is how the VU display in the video was programmed. fair enough - very nice feature for a vumeter anyway The flashing states are broken down like this. (cycle means it fades in and out rather than switching off to on) Velocity 119 = RGB Color cycle at 1 Hz Velocity 120 = Red 1 Hz cycle Velocity 121 = Green 1 Hz cycle Velocity 122 = Blue 1 Hz cycle Velocity 123 = Active Color Flash on the beat Velocity 124 = Active Color Flash on the half beat Velocity 125 = Active Color Flash on the quarter beat Velocity 126 = Active Color Flash on the eighth beat Velocity 127 = Active Color Flash on the sixteenth beat pretty neat having the buttons cycle as opposed to only flash, very cool. i presume the "active color flash" is down to midi clock ticks and nothing traktor-specific? not that i guess anything could be totally traktor specific as it's only midi anyway... tho you can't always get an output like the beatphase. Having to use multiple messages to configure each LED would be confusing for some users. and impossible to use in many apps probably... Also its worth mentioning that while the utility supports 20 fixed colors/brightness states the more intrepid user can actually program any color they want by editing RGB hex codes in the MF 3D Utility plugin file. huzzah! then i am a happy camper... i'd just reprogram those 20 to be 10 different colours with two levels of intensity each. perfect... would be very cool if these 20 preset colours could be exported/imported in some way in case someone wants to share a traktor tsi etc that only makes sense with a different set of colours. don't suppose there's any chance of there being a uk reseller to avoid custom charges i have a nasty feeling that this controller, the a&h k2 and the new behringer units are all going to be available around the same time and impact my financial situation
Adolf Hit 28.02.2012	You can only modify the intensity of the Inactive or Active Color - that is how the VU display in the video was programmed. The flashing states are broken down like this. (cycle means it fades in and out rather than switching off to on) Velocity 119 = RGB Color cycle at 1 Hz Velocity 120 = Red 1 Hz cycle Velocity 121 = Green 1 Hz cycle Velocity 122 = Blue 1 Hz cycle Velocity 123 = Active Color Flash on the beat Velocity 124 = Active Color Flash on the half beat Velocity 125 = Active Color Flash on the quarter beat Velocity 126 = Active Color Flash on the eighth beat Velocity 127 = Active Color Flash on the sixteenth beat Obviously there are many many cool aspects of the lighting that could be controlled, however we have to make it easy to map at the same time. Having to use multiple messages to configure each LED would be confusing for some users. We will definitely be listening to the community for feature requests once the product is shipping. Also its worth mentioning that while the utility supports 20 fixed colors/brightness states the more intrepid user can actually program any color they want by editing RGB hex codes in the MF 3D Utility plugin file.
Chasidy Heckenbach 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by guywithknife I believe they are the 20 colours that you can set using the configuration tool. Technically, the leds can do thousands of colours, but most are too similar to be able to tell apart. The colours that DJTT chose for the configuration tool are the ones which they determined to look the best. cool sure, i suspect 20 different colours will be enough for anyone all i'd need for any mapping is maybe 4 distinct ones tops. being able to change the intensity of any of the colors is more important maybe - but i'm hoping you can do that on this new midi fighter for custom colours and not just the simple on/off colours that are pre selected. the launchpad doesn't have an exactly awesome range of colors from it's 2 led's per pad but it's nice having 3 intensities for each colour.
Kandi Odom 28.02.2012	@V-Hoff that would look really nice on a my dj setup!! and makes sense too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ella Rick 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by fullenglishpint $249. Says on the blog post. Oh does it, must of missed that bit Not badly priced then
Irwin Ney 28.02.2012	What if DJTT produce a flexible stand for the midifighter 3d? This way we could mess with the inclination without need to really be with the midifighter in both hands. Some FX need an EQ adjust to work well and I would not be able to put one hand on the mixer if I have two hands at the MidiFighter 3d, only if I had three hands, wich I unfortunately dont have Something like this:
Tatum Ansaldo 28.02.2012	$249. Says on the blog post.
Ella Rick 28.02.2012	How much is MF3D gonna cost? Any ideas?
Laura Mihok 28.02.2012	I honest believe that it is a way to controllerism. Not everyone has to follow it. I see the 3d motion like a fader, or a knob. You could assign a filter or something like that to it and do a less "dramatic" presentation like Ean does (and we love it! it's his style).
Tatum Ansaldo 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by MrAybar Hi, would the new MF3D have his own DJTT Mapping????? Definitely.
Kandi Odom 28.02.2012	Hi, would the new MF3D have his own DJTT Mapping?????
Faustino Stringfellow 28.02.2012	Serious question to the builders - How easy is it to rip out the accelerometer and replace with a joystick? I could easily use it then, but as it stands i believe it pointless for 90% of working DJ's who have tiny booths to work in, rather than a full size stage. Love the concept, the RGB LEDS are excellent, but moving it around all the time would take two hands, I'd need a third hand to operate the main mixer. Keep the ideas coming, it looks great, but i wouldn't buy it as it stands.
Kimberly Lewark 28.02.2012	Originally Posted by zestoi these options look very cool... the 20 options include all possible colours at max brightness? I believe they are the 20 colours that you can set using the configuration tool. Technically, the leds can do thousands of colours, but most are too similar to be able to tell apart. The colours that DJTT chose for the configuration tool are the ones which they determined to look the best.
Chasidy Heckenbach 27.02.2012	Originally Posted by midifidler Velocity 66 - 86 = Directly set the color to one of the 20 available settings. Velocity 86 - 102 = Uses the inactive color, set to one of 15 brightness levels Velocity 103 - 118 = Uses the active color, set to one of 15 brightness levels Velocity 119 - 127 = A variety of flashing states which can be MIDI clock synced. these options look very cool... the 20 options include all possible colours at max brightness? if subsequently a CC is sent out in the range 86-102 (or 103-118?) it will affect the brightness of the colour currently selected via 'advanced' mode or then flip back to the default 'simple' colour? being able to dynamically select colour+brightness for any button via a single CC would be very cool. only a subset of those usable in midi-synched-goodness flashing mode i guess?
Rosita Bourdeaux 27.02.2012	Originally Posted by fitzyp Throw it on a guitar, map the motion control and buttons in any DAW, run the guitars output through said DAW . Rock out with the added bonus of controlling some effects or what not. Might just have to try it. Its a mappable motion controlled midi controller with direct feedback and more. Sounds pretty sweet to me. reserved. I've been rebuilding an old strat copy a friend of mine gave me a few months ago. I was going to put a monome in it to control ableton but now i'm believeing this. I would love to have that 3d control on my guitar

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Midi Fighter 3D?