A disconnect I'm noticing in the culture
A disconnect I'm noticing in the culture Posted on: 30.12.2012 by Tatiana Verdeja I've been noticing something more and more with gear lately on places like these community
s:What I've noticed a lot is a circlejerk built around things like cheap all-in-one controllers (S2/S4/mixtrack) that are popular with newer/less established DJs who don't have much real world experience. There are definitely a lot of newer DJs, and bedroom DJs or DJs who aren't very established, skewing the general culture by talking a lot, but not knowing what they're talking about. This works because of the anonymity. Obviously if we were talking to these people in person we'd know not to take them seriously, because we could see how unestablished they are. There's not as much discussion about high-end gear as there should be in order to encourage it's use to the newbies. Anyone else noticed something similar? | |
| Kellie Myrum 29.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by vanaema78
Some people simply get monotony on CDJs you know? He is believeing controllerist who is exploiting possibility of software to improve DJ performance and define a style. |
| Tatiana Verdeja 29.12.2012 | I've been on this community for close to five years, and have got to have written thousands pf posts over many accounts. I've watched it go from an intelligent and driven crowd, to a bunch of teenagers asking us to help them pick out shitty all in one controllers so they can transition between brostep tracks. What's been key in this decline is people crying about "negativity", whenever someone doesn't pretend everything is perfect. Being critical of the market and the industry is incredibly important. When we just pretend everything is great, people are able to drag things downhill. When things aren't great, they need to be pointed out so they can be improved. |
| Len Lukawski 29.12.2012 | I started playing out in 1994. I currently own 1200s an S4, a Z2 and several other pieces of kit. I rate the S4 for what it is. I am much more concerned with views like yours than what the "kids" are saying. Let people say what they need or want to say and choose if your want to participate in the discussion.TBH, you have 27 posts and have already contributed more negativity to this board than some teenage bedroom DJs who have truly been part of this community for years. "I swear, I dunno what I'm going to do if one more dork that's been transitioning between electrohouse and dubstep tracks for two years tries to argue that the S4 is a great controller..." Easy mate, turn your computer off... |
| Rubye Feicht 29.12.2012 | I'm not very expirienced in this stuff, and I haven't been DJing for long, but most people on these community
s are just gear whores. If you look at any of the "How I Play" videos, many of them have variability. Of course you will see your CDJ's, but you might see a launchpad or an MPD or a maschine, a fader fox or a mini. Sure you can talk and talk about how this gear is better than that gear and people care to much and vinyl is better and blah blah blah but doesn't that just take away the focus from music? As we've seen in a lot of those "how I play" videos, setups have such variability that you can make a good set with a nice sound with anything these days. And that's a good thing. Creating boundaries between "oldschoolers" and "newbies" only really takes away from the music. TLDR: Drop the gear blech, a setup changes from style to style and person to person. |
| Edwina Fagel 29.12.2012 | Then there's the thing with gear. Almost all the gear these days is pretty much plug and play. Plug in RCA here, some power from here and everything is working. I could see the geeks clashing with regular guys here. The geeks first sort out their own things, they have been into gadgets long before DJing and see no problem with DJ gear. Now there comes a usual guy who has bought (I hope he really has) Xone 92, 2x X1, Audio 10 aka tons of really expensive gear and he can't find out how to plug it in and sort it out. These guys can never be innovative enough to become one of the big names and probably will never even sort out how to use their gear properly and will give up. All this modern musical wizardry doesn't fit in their heads, they want their damn CDJ2000 so they don't have to believe what the what the machine can do for them, but instead believe what they can do with the machine. |
| Ervin Calvery 29.12.2012 | Are you guys actually finding this disrespect in the wild or just online? |
| Dorie Scelzo 29.12.2012 | That's kind of the way community
s are. With very few exceptions, they're populated by gear fetishists and people who like the community. Occasionally, you'll get a big/established player who's on them as part of their marketing strategy…but that's far more likely to happen on their personal websites' community s instead of a general one. There are guys here spinning parties. There are guys here who are residents. Guys who are actually big? A lot rarer. Maybe, but I'd doubt it. The thing is that the "big" guys are either incredibly technically forward believeing and will figure things out themselves……and have better places to go for advice than a community . If Ritchie Hawtin has a problem with Traktor, will he come here? Or will he tell his tech to call someone they know by name at NI for personal advice? There's a lot to be said for top-end CDJs and mixers. They're the standard for a reason. I wouldn't play on anything else if I were actually playing out regularly……controllers and laptops wouldn't enter my mind…they're too simple. But they're also insanely expensive. For the money I would have spent on 3 CDJ-2000s and an Empath, I could re-buy my entire DJ setup (including the computer), plus my production rig and I believe my guitar. It doesn't make any sense for me to own it. ……and I was really close to buying it anyway before the DDJ-SX came out. Part of me kind of wishes I did. The rest of me enjoys all my other toys. The disconnect you're talking about seems to be between pros and hobbyists. And pros don't frequent community s the same way. |
| Edwina Fagel 29.12.2012 | keithace, you probably really are old. Anyways, I can't understand a person who is categorising people by the gear, this thing seriously pisses me off. This board should be a damn jumping board for new DJ-s, for new Richie Hawtins since they have a lil bit geekiness and skill with the software and toys in them that gives them a bonus, that something over a regular guy in the club who is just beatmaching one song into another on his 3000 |
| Margie Pavell 29.12.2012 | oooookay... what are you doing? what point are you trying to make? |
| Linda Chavda 29.12.2012 | Not at all RIP |
| Margie Pavell 29.12.2012 | i hope that's your attempt at being funny... |
| Linda Chavda 29.12.2012 | Hmm |
| Tatiana Verdeja 29.12.2012 | Exactly. My point is that right now the balance is off. It's so far off that it's not newbies vs old schoolers any more. The old schoolers have already lost... At this point it seems like it's the newbies vs EVERYONE ELSE. Even the people who are spinning on controllers just like the newbies, but actually know what they're doing/talking about. There are so many newbies expressing their unfounded opinions, that the culture is regressing (on community s like this), instead of progressing. I've been DJing for about five years, which sort of automatically puts me in between the old schoolers and the idiot newbies. I believe the old schoolers and the newbies both have valid points in their argument... But the argument is over... now it's just anyone who's been DJing for more than two or three years, versus a legion of neckbeard 20-year-olds who want to be Madeon or Dillon Francis. I believe we as a community might just need to start being louder in telling the newbies that they don't know what they're talking about... I swear, I dunno what I'm going to do if one more dork that's been transitioning between electrohouse and dubstep tracks for two years tries to argue that the S4 is a great controller... |
| Darren Teboe 29.12.2012 | New guys who believe they know more than actual experience gives them is nothing new. Even in the days of two techs and a mixer, we had that issue. Keithace more or less hit it on the head. New guys not respecting a lot of the old ways, or even acknowledging the importance of some of it is huge, and combined with dinosaurs who just refuse to evolve... it gives two crowds very big soapboxes to project a seemingly non-stop soap opera from. Meanwhile, guys who sort of embrace the truths of both sides, and leave the bullshit behind tend to have their message lost in the noise, regardless of the fact that they are the ones with the truest view of how things are and should be. |
| Margie Pavell 29.12.2012 | I believe the old schoolers are irked by the complete lack of respect shown by the new schoolers. The torrenting of music that is pretty cheap to buy now. Deadmau5's attitude, combined with his popularity, poisoning people's view of DJs and their craft. DJ Actors. etc... I was raised old school but grew up in a new school world. Photojojo is the same. We are both old men that have embraced the techonology and what it means to us. I know i can be a bit abrasive, but I also have alot of knowledge and experience and love to share it with people that are willing to listen. |
| Tamela Batara 29.12.2012 | Hope I'm in the 30% after 15 years of vinyl addiction, lol. |
| Tatiana Verdeja 29.12.2012 | Yeah that's definitely why it's happening, I just mean to suggest that the proportions are a bit off, and that's a bad thing. I keep seeing things like obvious newbies literally arguing that jogwheels are useless and nobody should use them. The balance is just off. For a while it was 90% of DJs hating on new school concepts, but now it seems like it's shifted because of the recent explosion in the DJ population.. At this point is seeems like 20% ignorant old schoolers hating on everything, 50% newbies who've been spinning for a year or two, and 30% people who actually know what they're talking about. I feel like there needs to be a greater degree of shutting-the-fuck-up within the 20% and the 50% blocks, so that the people who actually know what they're talking about can encourage both sides to improve. |
| Margie Pavell 29.12.2012 | Can't we just let everyone find their own way as far as gear is concerned? I came from Vinyl and CDJs. I started with an x-session pro, added a hercules piece of crap, added my gemini mixer, deleted the hercules, sold it all. Picked up a used mixtrack. Sold it. Bought an X1 and a Xone 22. Just added a LPD8. All this over the last three years or so. I am very comfortable with my setup. But it took all those steps for me to get there. |
| Tamela Batara 29.12.2012 | As above. The cheaper end of the market is always going to be more popular, as it simply doesn't cost as much. Not everyone has |
| Lillia Datson 29.12.2012 | Well i suppose its because if ask about a certain type of gear then you'll get a response from people with that gear. If you ask about high end stuff you'll get a response accordingly. There's nothing stopping anyone asking about whatever they want, and that goes from the bedroom DJ right through to anyone who does this for a living. Though i suppose if you've made it where you want to be in the world of DJ'ing then your not going to be asking about too much on a community thats mainly populated by people who are mostly bedroom DJ's. And there's nothing wrong with that in the slightest. |
| Ninfa Mazariegos 29.12.2012 | What would you consider high end a far as controllers? I believe most people buy cheaper gear because djing is just a hobby for them or they don't want to drop big money on something they aren't sure is for them. |
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