APC40 LED trouble

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APC40 LED trouble
Posted on: 11.10.2011 by Neta Schlaefli
Ok, so I'm mapping my APC 40 for TP2 and everything seems to be going fine until I try to map the outputs for the LEDs. I can get them to be the right color and everything, but the led activity is very unpredictable. I can't get the lights to actually stay on.

For example: Say I would like the LED of my play/pause button to be red when paused and green while playing. I can get the colors fine, but no matter what I do the LED's just turn off if I hit the button. once in a while they will stay on and it will work for a second, but when I hit the button again it will only stay lit if it is held. I've made sure that my button is set to toggle, and the function works fine, It's just the led's giving me trouble.

Controller range is 0/1
Midi Range is 4/2 (Flashing red, Flashing green)

Am I a complete idiot or is there something I am missing? any help would be grand. thanks


It tends to work if i hit the button lightly and quickly, but the average button press causes the LED's to turn off?????!!!!
Chasidy Heckenbach
25.04.2012
Originally Posted by Glitchsbrew
All I've managed is to make it work on one LED, and just that was a bit tedious to do. I appreciate your offer to write the code but I'd prefer to learn how on my own. That tutorial on the other had is a wonderful idea.
i'm currently working on a much much simpler format to use with midimasher instead of the raw lua (tho u can still use lua if wanted - and will be needed for some advanced stuff probably - or custom extensions)

this is the kind of format i'm experimenting with at the moment:

Code:
map button1 = toggle traktor play_a
map button2 = traktor cue_a
map button3 = toggle traktor sync_a
map button4 = $shift ? traktor pitchbend_up_a : traktor pitchbend_down_a
map button5 = set $shift
this kind of format will also be much simpler for me to write tutorials about
Chasidy Heckenbach
25.04.2012
Originally Posted by Glitchsbrew
I've found Bome's MT to be a solution, although it feels like a step away from a simplicity. I'm still looking for the easiest way to make Traktor choose output A's ON instead of output B's OFF.
bomes might be your best bet. the only way to do in in traktor is to use modifers to mask the values u don't want - but u can't have a modifier change it's value from an OUT in traktor - u need something external to make it happen somehow.

I've downloaded at installed midimasher, but it's learning curve is too steep for me. I wasn't able to find a centralized tutorial; just random tips inside thread posts scattered around various websites.
this is a problem... i believe i need to come up with some kind of simpler config file format that covers most bases and then people can use lua for more esoteric stuff. some tutorials would also be a good idea ofc - i just haven't had the time. i could write the code u need - but if u have bomes already doing it then no point really.
Dedra Heddleston
07.04.2012
Originally Posted by hrtbrkd
glad to help. feel free to ask Q's for any future mapping needs for apc40 or djm900 stuff. That's the gear I have. So can help as much as I can.
I hope this offer hasn't expired

The issue facing me is caused the APC40's inability to "ignore" an output's OFF state, instead choosing a second output's ON state, both outputs having been mapped to the same LED inside the APC's clip launch grid.

For example,
First, I map a single button's LED to 2 duplicate Outputs, both being Add Out > Loop Recorder > BeatPosition. (This output can be used to create a 4 beat metronome, but I am am trying go one step further by creating a 16 frame visualizer where each frame, consisting of a 5x8 pixel grid, changes with every beat of a 16 bar recorded loop.)

I assign Output A to be green on the second beat of a 4 beat loop [Controller range = min 0.25 - max 0.50, Midi range = min 0 - max 1].

Then I assign Output B to be red on the fourth beat of the loop [Controller range = min 0.75 - max 1.00, Midi range = min 0 - max 3].

As the loop recorder plays, I want the LED feedback to be: no color, green, no color, red. That's unfortunately not what happens. Only one output is received by the APC and the other is lost.

Help?
Dena Gisriel
26.06.2012		i could write the code u need - but if u have bomes already doing it then no point really.[/QUOTE]


Hi ya, could i get you to make me a TSI for my APC40 ? I can paypal you some money. I know where i want everything, i'm just having trouble with the LEDS. Thanks.
Chasidy Heckenbach
25.04.2012
Originally Posted by Glitchsbrew
All I've managed is to make it work on one LED, and just that was a bit tedious to do. I appreciate your offer to write the code but I'd prefer to learn how on my own. That tutorial on the other had is a wonderful idea.
i'm currently working on a much much simpler format to use with midimasher instead of the raw lua (tho u can still use lua if wanted - and will be needed for some advanced stuff probably - or custom extensions)

this is the kind of format i'm experimenting with at the moment:

Code:
map button1 = toggle traktor play_a
map button2 = traktor cue_a
map button3 = toggle traktor sync_a
map button4 = $shift ? traktor pitchbend_up_a : traktor pitchbend_down_a
map button5 = set $shift
this kind of format will also be much simpler for me to write tutorials about
Dedra Heddleston
25.04.2012
but if u have bomes already doing it then no point really.
All I've managed is to make it work on one LED, and just that was a bit tedious to do. I appreciate your offer to write the code but I'd prefer to learn how on my own. That tutorial on the other had is a wonderful idea.
Chasidy Heckenbach
25.04.2012
Originally Posted by Glitchsbrew
I've found Bome's MT to be a solution, although it feels like a step away from a simplicity. I'm still looking for the easiest way to make Traktor choose output A's ON instead of output B's OFF.
bomes might be your best bet. the only way to do in in traktor is to use modifers to mask the values u don't want - but u can't have a modifier change it's value from an OUT in traktor - u need something external to make it happen somehow.

I've downloaded at installed midimasher, but it's learning curve is too steep for me. I wasn't able to find a centralized tutorial; just random tips inside thread posts scattered around various websites.
this is a problem... i believe i need to come up with some kind of simpler config file format that covers most bases and then people can use lua for more esoteric stuff. some tutorials would also be a good idea ofc - i just haven't had the time. i could write the code u need - but if u have bomes already doing it then no point really.
Dedra Heddleston
24.04.2012
i'm sure the solution is simple tho and someone who knows more will chime in...
I've found Bome's MT to be a solution, although it feels like a step away from a simplicity. I'm still looking for the easiest way to make Traktor choose output A's ON instead of output B's OFF.

I've downloaded at installed midimasher, but it's learning curve is too steep for me. I wasn't able to find a centralized tutorial; just random tips inside thread posts scattered around various websites.
Chasidy Heckenbach
08.04.2012		btw had another quick look and i had 'blend' ticked. without blend ticked... instead of sending out 0, 1, 0, 3 it's sending 0's, then pairs of 0+1's, then 0's and then pairs of 0+3's. so when u want the led to be on the apc is going to be getting lots of 0's at the same time. in theory it should sort of look how u want but the led's will flicker. i'm sure i've missed something obvious and remember now why i never map directly in traktor but do all this logic in midimasher

i'm sure the solution is simple tho and someone who knows more will chime in...
Dedra Heddleston
07.04.2012		hmm.. looks like I still have a lot to learn. Thanks for the reply. I'll have to come back and decipher it once I know a bit more.
Chasidy Heckenbach
07.04.2012		you'll need hrtbrkd for any actual apc40 issues but here's some midi dumps from the 2 controls u have setup. first is when using different cc's for each of them (each line(s) repeats a bunch of times)

Code:
* [traktor   ] b0 01 01 [] type=cc name=CC001 value=1
* [traktor   ] b0 02 00 [] type=cc name=CC002 value=0

* [traktor   ] b0 01 01 [] type=cc name=CC001 value=1
* [traktor   ] b0 02 01 [] type=cc name=CC002 value=1

* [traktor   ] b0 01 01 [] type=cc name=CC001 value=1
* [traktor   ] b0 02 02 [] type=cc name=CC002 value=2

* [traktor   ] b0 01 00 [] type=cc name=CC001 value=0
* [traktor   ] b0 02 00 [] type=cc name=CC002 value=0
and then when combined (which works as u would expect given the output above):

Code:
* [traktor   ] b0 03 00 [] type=cc name=CC003 value=0
* [traktor   ] b0 03 01 [] type=cc name=CC003 value=1

* [traktor   ] b0 03 01 [] type=cc name=CC003 value=1

* [traktor   ] b0 03 01 [] type=cc name=CC003 value=1
* [traktor   ] b0 03 02 [] type=cc name=CC003 value=2

* [traktor   ] b0 03 00 [] type=cc name=CC003 value=0
so it's cycling between 0 and 1, then staying at 1, then cycling between 1 and 2 and then just sending out 0 (which it does for the longest amount of time)

i haven't messed with the loop recorder out's too much - but i guess you have some debug to do and has nothing really to do with the apc40 and everything to do with traktor.

edit: traktor is just sending out 0 from both controls 50% of the time, for the first half of the loop recording
Chasidy Heckenbach
07.04.2012		so the problem isn't the apc40 at all then but the midi that traktor is sending to it? only way to be sure would be to dump it using some app i guess. i *thought* that traktor was sensible enough that if it had two conflicting values for a single 'out' midi message (as u have) that it would choose the higher non-zero one. the order u add in's and out's can also matter in some cases - not always tho.
Dedra Heddleston
07.04.2012
Originally Posted by hrtbrkd
glad to help. feel free to ask Q's for any future mapping needs for apc40 or djm900 stuff. That's the gear I have. So can help as much as I can.
I hope this offer hasn't expired

The issue facing me is caused the APC40's inability to "ignore" an output's OFF state, instead choosing a second output's ON state, both outputs having been mapped to the same LED inside the APC's clip launch grid.

For example,
First, I map a single button's LED to 2 duplicate Outputs, both being Add Out > Loop Recorder > BeatPosition. (This output can be used to create a 4 beat metronome, but I am am trying go one step further by creating a 16 frame visualizer where each frame, consisting of a 5x8 pixel grid, changes with every beat of a 16 bar recorded loop.)

I assign Output A to be green on the second beat of a 4 beat loop [Controller range = min 0.25 - max 0.50, Midi range = min 0 - max 1].

Then I assign Output B to be red on the fourth beat of the loop [Controller range = min 0.75 - max 1.00, Midi range = min 0 - max 3].

As the loop recorder plays, I want the LED feedback to be: no color, green, no color, red. That's unfortunately not what happens. Only one output is received by the APC and the other is lost.

Help?
Noelia Martig
13.11.2011		glad to help. feel free to ask Q's for any future mapping needs for apc40 or djm900 stuff. That's the gear I have. So can help as much as I can.
Zandra Dicaro
12.11.2011		my mistake, from start you should map everything with the "MASTER" tracker selected, or else problem like LED malfunction might happen. I have to redo everything again now, sigh...
Zandra Dicaro
12.11.2011
Originally Posted by hrtbrkd
When it starts up the APC40 "Track Selection" light is on Track one. Just select the "Master" in "Track Selection" and map away.
Your "MASTER" mode on startup does actually work wonderfully. Even thou i did not map my midi mapping in "MASTER" selected, but it still works when "MASTER" was select before Traktor starting up.
Noelia Martig
02.11.2011		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW4p6lSHy0g

Video explanation... and below is my apc40 map demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPEod27D1hE
Noelia Martig
02.11.2011		Ok. say you start up traktor and you have your apc40 in regular mode. When it starts up the APC40 "Track Selection" light is on Track one. Just select the "Master" in "Track Selection" and map away. Everytime you load up Traktor and your APC40 you just have to have the "Master" re-selected and your APC40 goes back to your Mapping Template you made. All lights will work, led feedback and knob halos go back to normal.

Now here is something to believe about. In this mode you actually have additinal banks to work with but IMO APC40 offers more than enough to map in Traktor. Let me know if you need a video made to explain a bit more.
Zandra Dicaro
02.11.2011
Originally Posted by hrtbrkd
are you guys using the other banks? Like why go into "dumb mode" if your only going to use bank 1? If you stay in regular mode all you have to do is make sure the "Master" Track selection is left on and you can map away never having to go into dumb mode. Iono do what ever feels right for you.
do u mean whenever i startup the apc40 and traktor, i have to make sure it is in MASTER track so the lights will auto be there?
Noelia Martig
02.11.2011		are you guys using the other banks? Like why go into "dumb mode" if your only going to use bank 1? If you stay in regular mode all you have to do is make sure the "Master" Track selection is left on and you can map away never having to go into dumb mode. Iono do what ever feels right for you.
Zandra Dicaro
31.10.2011
Originally Posted by and_leite
I mean once you finalize your mapping and restart the APC and Traktor you should have no problem, but you still have to start the APC in dumb mode every time.
oic... aite thanks for the advice, muchly appreciated!
Oren Arizola
31.10.2011
Originally Posted by hakenkruez
you mean once you finalized your mapping, you do not need to start in dumb mode everytime? Thanks.
I mean once you finalize your mapping and restart the APC and Traktor you should have no problem, but you still have to start the APC in dumb mode every time.
Zandra Dicaro
30.10.2011
Originally Posted by and_leite
once you are done you should have no problem.
you mean once you finalized your mapping, you do not need to start in dumb mode everytime? Thanks.
Oren Arizola
30.10.2011
Originally Posted by hakenkruez
Bro, is there anyway to overcome this issue? im facing the same problem as well. Kinda irritate that i need to switch back to dumb mode in order to keep the LED work fine... thanks.
Not that I am aware of. But this happens only when the mapping is changed, so it is a pain in ass whilst you are configuring your mapping but once you are done you should have no problem.
Zandra Dicaro
27.10.2011
Originally Posted by and_leite
From my experience sometimes even though you start in dumb mode after change some mapping setting the LEDs start to acting weird until I restart the APC and traktor once again in dumb mode then it work fine.
Bro, is there anyway to overcome this issue? im facing the same problem as well. Kinda irritate that i need to switch back to dumb mode in order to keep the LED work fine... thanks.
Chasidy Heckenbach
20.10.2011
Originally Posted by Onimode
It does get the job done, but like I said, LED feedback becomes nonexistent with this method. This stuff is harder than it should be. :/
no chance these commands do anything to knob1 when in any of mode0 or 1 or 2?

* try to set "DEVICE Knob 1 LED Ring Type" to "volume" style...

Code:
send_midi_raw("apc40", 0xB0, 0x18, 0x2)
* try to make the same led light up at 50%...

Code:
send_midi_raw("apc40", 0xB0, 0x10, 0x64)
Kayce Mesia
21.10.2011		It does get the job done, but like I said, LED feedback becomes nonexistent with this method. This stuff is harder than it should be. :/
Chasidy Heckenbach
21.10.2011
Originally Posted by Onimode
I really wish my method the first time worked. I've tried using SysEx to get the APC40 into the Ableton mode, but I got the same results as putting it in "dumb" mode. Gotta figure out how to do this stuff right. :/
this is the code you were using isn't it? odd... as it *looks* like it should work.

Code:
send_midi_raw("apc40", 0xF0, 0x47, 0x7F, 0x73, 0x60, 0x00, 0x04, 0x41, 0x08, 0x02, 0x01, 0xF7)
and the led's are just dead or something afterwards even via midi? in "mode 2" (the 3rd one) the leds should be even more dead from looking at the spec - but then should be easy to modify via midi.

Code:
send_midi_raw("apc40", 0xF0, 0x47, 0x7F, 0x73, 0x60, 0x00, 0x04, 0x42, 0x08, 0x02, 0x01, 0xF7)
wish i had an apc40 to play with ofc
Kayce Mesia
21.10.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
it's the 3rd one "mode 2" that i thought looked interesting.
I really wish my method the first time worked. I've tried using SysEx to get the APC40 into the Ableton mode, but I got the same results as putting it in "dumb" mode. Gotta figure out how to do this stuff right. :/
Chasidy Heckenbach
21.10.2011
Originally Posted by Onimode
"Dumb" mode is mode 2. "Smart" mode is mode 1/generic mode.
ah ok, from the spec i thought that:

* mode 0 (0x40): generic - default on power up
* mode 1 (0x41): default ableton live mode
* mode 2 (0x42): alternative ableton live mode

it's the 3rd one "mode 2" that i thought looked interesting.
Kayce Mesia
21.10.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
"dumb" mode is "mode 0"?
"Dumb" mode is mode 2. "Smart" mode is mode 1/generic mode.
Chasidy Heckenbach
21.10.2011
Originally Posted by Onimode
Negative on this. I can confirm the APC40 goes into "dumb" mode (device control knobs are no longer channel-ized), but LED feedback goes out the window. Still looking for other solutions.
"dumb" mode is "mode 0"? the ableton live mode 2 looks interesting:

Notes Regarding Alternate Ableton Live Mode (Mode 2):
- All buttons are momentary buttons
- Device control knobs and buttons are not banked within the APC40
- All LEDs are controlled by the Host
you seem to have full control over all leds in that mode from the host anyway.
Kayce Mesia
20.10.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
i believe Onimode worked out the midimasher code to send the sysex to put the apc40 into dumb mode too. you could use that in a mini config, then have a .bat file to run it. quicker than firing up live each time anyway just to do that.
Negative on this. I can confirm the APC40 goes into "dumb" mode (device control knobs are no longer channel-ized), but LED feedback goes out the window. Still looking for other solutions.

Originally Posted by SqueakDemon
OK this all has worked wonderfully, but how do I get my knob indicator LED's back??? the button LED's work now but not the knob's LEDs..
Are the outs to your knobs mapped to a different control? hrtbrkd made a thread about mapping the APC40 here.

From that post:
Ring LED Just add + 8 to the current CC#.

ex. So for Chanel 1 | CC48 | in Traktor use Channel 1 | CC55 |
Neta Schlaefli
20.10.2011		OK this all has worked wonderfully, but how do I get my knob indicator LED's back??? the button LED's work now but not the knob's LEDs..
Chasidy Heckenbach
18.10.2011		i believe Onimode worked out the midimasher code to send the sysex to put the apc40 into dumb mode too. you could use that in a mini config, then have a .bat file to run it. quicker than firing up live each time anyway just to do that.
Neta Schlaefli
18.10.2011		excellent. thanks guys. ill see what other things i run into. but for now I appreciate the help
Kayce Mesia
17.10.2011
Originally Posted by SqueakDemon
When I try starting ableton before traktor all LED feedback in general goes off when I close Live.
This is what happens when you put the APC into "dumb mode". You're doing it right.

Originally Posted by SqueakDemon
send monitor state
This one.
Neta Schlaefli
17.10.2011		ok so I've just had the chance to try this stuff out.
When I try starting ableton before traktor all LED feedback in general goes off when I close Live.
Also, when I look for the "update state command, I Cant seem to find it. It's not under "global" all I have are:

Snap mode
quantize
broadcasting
cruise mode
show slider values
FX panel mode
send monitor state
Noelia Martig
12.10.2011		Do an add in then go to global and select update state, now click on learn. Your done.
Oren Arizola
12.10.2011		To start in dumb mode you have to:

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