CDJs vs. Vinyl?
CDJs vs. Vinyl? Posted on: 25.02.2010 by Beckie Baglia Hey guys, I know this is community
is mostly about digitally djing, but I have run into a problem and I couldn't believe of anywhere else to go. I made a mixtape a few months ago and a guy who does local events liked it. He's basically offering a booking oppurtunity, however he said they only book people who can play on CDJs or Vinyl. I've only ever used my X-session pro. So. I was believeing about picking up either a CDJ-200 or a Technics 1200, because this is now the second time that my midi controller only technique has gotten in the way of a good opportunity. How hard is it to pick up beatmatching if I've been using my midi controller for about 2 years now and basically understand the concept and execution. I've just never practiced. Also, I believe it's lame of event promoters to only book hardware DJs because many of the techniques and tricks I use to make my dj set better rely on the software (i.e. quantizing and harmonic mixing) Thanks guys. | |
| Roberto Viccione 26.02.2010 | Actually, re what JesC said, my own caveat is this: If you do go the route of turntables or CDJ's then do timecode. No question. That way you can at least have the functionality you're looking for. And Traktor's timecode will work just fine. But once again, do it cause you want the functionality, or it stops being fun. |
| Cristian Carmona 26.02.2010 | Just download serato and play ur set on that, if they have 1200s and cdj's I'm pretty sure they are going to have a box hooked up. See if any friends have ssl and go over and practice. Once you make a name for yourself in the scene you play. Promoters will be catering to you needs cuz you will be in demand. |
| Roberto Viccione 26.02.2010 | Would the same thing be said to a CD DJ? They show up and the CD deck jams, so they better have some vinyl on backup. No, that would never be said. How is this any different? And it is still a completely different discussion. Being able to spin on CDs or vinyl is a great thing, but should it be necessary to be called a DJ? Should spinning on vinyl be our standard? Should spinning tape decks? Should being able to spin without pitch faders, or direct drive, or whatever, be the standard? Cause people did that. ANd we have let it evolve since then. How many people are standing up saying "Well, you better know how to DJ without relying on a time readout on your CD player"? These are ALL crutches that we have adapted to. Hell, even the CDJ-1000's will give you a basic wave form readout. So why is that less of a crutch than an advanced wave form? stringer, I doubt you're going to be able to recreate that mix on CDJ's, if anything because of the lack of access of gear. There is a stigma, but you'll find promoters who will get past it. That promoter is a douchebag. The only way he's going to change his mind is if you change it for him. Record a video of your mix, show what you're doing. Ask him to give you the chance and if you don't deliver then he doesn't have to pay you. Bring business cards and network the shit out of it, get your friends to come and talk you up. That's how we break this stigma. By proving controllers and laptops are more important and powerful as CDJs and turntables. And, at that, the crowd won't care. And if they do, then they aren't your scene anyway. They sure as fuck wouldn't be mine. And I've NEVER run into a crowd who cared what I was spinning on after I started spinning. They might have an attitude before, but the beats speak for themselves. It's a hard place to be, but that promoter is not the rule. |
| juan garcia 25.02.2010 | you could always rent a pair of cdjs and a mixer to do practice on and do the mix tape. we've had other threads where people get all emotional/controller hurt when i suggest everyone learning to dj should know how to spin on cdjs, and bring along that updated cd case to every gig in case it arises that you need to use the cdjs. |
| Beckie Baglia 25.02.2010 | I agree whole-heartedly DvlsAdvct, however it is so frustrating to not get a gig because of the way I do things. I know I could rock the house, but it is a stigma that because I'm using a laptop and a midi controller then I'm not a "dj". I don't know what to do though, he said if I could record a mixtape as good as the one I have right now then I'm pretty much a shoe in. However, I don't really know anyone with CDJs or tables that I could record on. I agree I don't want to spend the money on something I don't really even want to use, but there is that stigma there. |
| Roberto Viccione 25.02.2010 | As a disclaimer to what I'm about to say, I learned to beatmatch on vinyl, spun on CDs, then timecode vinyl, and now I'm 100% controllerist. You can learn to beatmatch on controllers. Is it required? Well, honestly, no. You can learn to do everything without the "crutches" as some people call them. But you don't need to. Why is it necessary? Yes, you could learn how to mix songs well, and beatmatching speeds that process along. If this guy already likes what you do then rock the fuck on. SHould you go out and spend an extra $1000 on gear that you might never use after this gig? Fuck no. That's stupid, shortsighted, and anyone encouraging you to do that is not believeing of your specific needs. Are those pieces of gear necessary to be a better DJ? I'm sorry to say it, but no. Did I learn things spinning on CDs that I translated to spinning on controllers? Of course. But now that I've been spinning on controllers I believe differently than when I spin on CDs and prefer my mindset on controllers. You don't NEED those things. And you should tell that promoter that if he liked your recorded set then he should let you make the crowd rock out how you're comfortable. You won't be as comfortable on CDJs or vinyl, and you may as well kiss the gig goodbye unless you can learn how to do what you do on a completely different medium really really quickly. If an art director came up to someone who draws professionally and said "I love your work, I'd love to display it, but I only display paintings" do you believe that artist would drop everything, learn how to paint as good as their drawings, just for that one curator? No. Why should the OP? Look, every skill and ability you can learn is invaluable, be it beat matching, scratching, mixing on EQ's, cutting, beat juggling, cue juggling, looping, effects, etc.. But, you'll find your preferences. It's what YOU do and what defines YOU as a DJ. And as you grow you'll incorporate more. But don't let some short sighted, ignorant promoter make you change your methods because he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Others aren't going to share our views. Promoters aren't going to cater to us. But they aren't going to accept us any more frequently if we don't stand up for and defend the style and art form we have chosen. If every time a promoter tells us "I won't book you cause you're on a laptop. Learn to spin on CDs" we do, then it will never go anywhere regardless. That's my .02. Sorry for the rant, not trying to offend anyone, and I don't 100% disagree with anyone who has said the opposite. But, learning to spin CDs or Vinyl merely to expand your horizons is one thing. Learning it to feed the ego of an ignorant promoter is another. |
| juan garcia 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by stringerhye
FYI you need Traktor scratch pro to use DVS |
| Ethelyn Vallelunga 25.02.2010 | DVS? if you mean if you can use them to work with traktor, my 400s can
Originally Posted by stringerhye
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| Beckie Baglia 25.02.2010 | Thanks for all the good advice. I'd love to learn to play on some decks just because I would probably feel a little more accomplished then. I went over to a friends house whose got two technics and was pretty much getting tracks aligned within the hour. He just says he wants to hear a mix on some hardware so I'd need a lot more time. I agree that it's important to learn on something... less helpful. But, I also am limiting myself in doing so. I'm believeing now that Vinyl would be nice (cheaper for the decks, more "old school"), but I see more guys on CDJs at the clubs and I believe it'd be easier to pick up where I am coming from. Can CDJs be used as a DVS for Traktor? If so it might be a nice setup with the Kontrol XI. |
| Ethelyn Vallelunga 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by chrismp
If you ever changed the playing cd in a live situation you know what I mean |
| Lacey Westergreen 25.02.2010 | you could learn beatmatching on midi controllers as well...get some deck controllers like the eks xp-5 or xp-10 and just don't use all the little helpers traktor has to offer (e.g. waveforms, sync, beatgrids, snap, quantize...). that way you can learn how to beatmatch manually like you would do on a pair of CDJs, well, except for changing CDs |
| Roselle Mcnaul 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by FUFR
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| Ethelyn Vallelunga 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by mmauve
First I learned how to BM on tapedecks (in the 80s, with selfmade pitchcontrols), then on turntables, then on cdj and now I like to fool around with controllers. It's like having sex, learn it with a condom first and gain some experience before you step into the real thing |
| Marcel Ei Gio 25.02.2010 | ^2x |
| Roselle Mcnaul 25.02.2010 | Do not take this as an attack, it's an honest, bullshit free opinion which should be taken for whatever it's worth. If you listen, cool, if not - hey that's your choice Alright, heres the deal: As a DJ, your job is to master your craft, be it any medium. It's completely acceptable of course to have preferences when it comes to how you get the job done, but regardless - I cannot stress this enough: learn your job without the crutch of waveforms, sync buttons, beat grids, and quantization. Being a capable DJ without the aid of your computer is the single best thing you can do for yourself. Your job is not to argue what the future is, why it's better, or why he should believe it is. It is not his mandatory job duty to cater to your devout controllerist mentality, and while accepted and encouraged here, others are also not going to share your views. If he makes reasonable accommodations, awesome - but if not, you should be able to roll with whatever situation is thrown at you. In all honesty, consider investing in a pair of decks to train yourself properly, not because he told you to - but because you should anyway. If you are playing out, there is no excuse as to why you cannot perform fundamental functions of your craft. Trust me, you'll gain a new appreciation, a higher sense of confidence, and become a well rounded practitioner of your craft |
| Hipolito Scionti 25.02.2010 | PS. I agree OP should learn to beatmatch! But investing in cdjs or decks because of a couple of promoters archaic opinions is not worth it IMO. |
| Xavier Emanuels 25.02.2010 | Is this guy adversed to those who use timecode vinyl ? You could use a timecode setup along side with your unit - you wouldnt even really have to learn how to beatmatch because your visual indicators will help you beatmatch easily. Thats not to say that you shouldnt learn to beatmatch without visual indicators ! |
| Hipolito Scionti 25.02.2010 | Eh? Why is he saying that? Honestly that is nonsense. Don't buy cdjs or vinyl for that reason because once you learn how to use em, you'll just go back to your midi set up and they will just sit there. Tell the dude you can mix on cdjs but that you're a controllerist. If he liked youre demo why would he care how it was made??? He just doesn't understand what he is talking about. Tell him controllerism is the future then show him this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTgkWtND-IE |
| Ethelyn Vallelunga 25.02.2010 | it depends... some peeps pick it up in a few days, others (like one of my mates) never learn to put a record straight. But if you believeing about buying a CDJ, do yourself a favor, pick a better one like the 400 instead of the cdj200. spinning records (the black plastic things) is somewhat more difficult, you need to be more tender and have to deal with warped records and stuff. |
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