CDJs vs. Vinyl?
CDJs vs. Vinyl? Posted on: 25.02.2010 by Beckie Baglia Hey guys, I know this is community
is mostly about digitally djing, but I have run into a problem and I couldn't believe of anywhere else to go. I made a mixtape a few months ago and a guy who does local events liked it. He's basically offering a booking oppurtunity, however he said they only book people who can play on CDJs or Vinyl. I've only ever used my X-session pro. So. I was believeing about picking up either a CDJ-200 or a Technics 1200, because this is now the second time that my midi controller only technique has gotten in the way of a good opportunity. How hard is it to pick up beatmatching if I've been using my midi controller for about 2 years now and basically understand the concept and execution. I've just never practiced. Also, I believe it's lame of event promoters to only book hardware DJs because many of the techniques and tricks I use to make my dj set better rely on the software (i.e. quantizing and harmonic mixing) Thanks guys. | |
| Bertram Shiflett 28.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by Fyoog
(I also started as a digital DJ) |
| Bertram Shiflett 28.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by fusion
But it doesn't matter if you use a mixer oder the vci-100. |
| Marcene Erkenbrack 28.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by xbelt
Might invest in a cheapish pair down the road, when i get another job :S haha.. A mixer would then be necessary aswell? Thanks heaps fusion |
| Marcene Erkenbrack 28.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by transient
Sorry for the newbie question.. Cheers, JD |
| Roselle Mcnaul 27.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by PartyMcFly
"CDJs?, turntables?. Pfft, none of that shit here. You want this gig, you use what we got." "What do you have?" "A dual cassette player hooked into a Radio Shack mixer. When can you start." |
| Bertram Shiflett 28.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by Fyoog
(I also started as a digital DJ) |
| Wanda Insel 01.03.2010 | To the original post, I am a bit baffled at this promoters problem? I have been out a lot recently and I don't live in a big city but I have probably only seen one place (out of many) that didn't have a dj with a laptop. Hell, even the small bar down the road from me had a guy Serato with a VCI 300. If its the only place that you can play for any reason then if the guy liked you then I can't see his problem. He obviously like the music and execution on your mix so he needs to wind his neck in? If you want to beat match and deepen your trade then go for it but i wouldn't use this as a reason as this sounds like it will not add anything to your sets and anyway it's not like you will be doing the same set on CDJ's or vinyl as this is not what you did to get the guy to like it in the first place? At the reply earlier saying "technically" your not a DJ if you don't use a disk when playing......... I don't know why you would post this, what did you hope to achieve by that statement. There are plenty of terms in language that use old terms in a modern way, this is just semantics!! So are you saying that aren't allowed to call a cherry-picker a cherry-picker if you aren't picking cherries?. Plus in this case is a radio DJ a DJ as they haven't used disks for years? We'll all be SJ's from now on (Song Jockey). Not having a go but come on? |
| Bertram Shiflett 28.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by fusion
But it doesn't matter if you use a mixer oder the vci-100. |
| Marcene Erkenbrack 28.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by xbelt
Might invest in a cheapish pair down the road, when i get another job :S haha.. A mixer would then be necessary aswell? Thanks heaps fusion |
| Bertram Shiflett 28.02.2010 | you can't describe it xD it's the feeling and the quality. it's just great. Before I had TT's I had a VCI-100 and I thought you could do everything with it but the feeling you get with vinyl is great. That's why I switched from digital to analog. (Well I do something of a hybrid. I use timecodes and real vinyls) |
| Marcene Erkenbrack 28.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by transient
Sorry for the newbie question.. Cheers, JD |
| Cristian Carmona 28.02.2010 | Man if anyone wants to learn on vinyl or cdj's....hook up with other djs! I have friends that play only on vinyl, other on CDs, other serato only. When you start to hook up with other djs they vouch for you! Promoters always talk to Dj and try to hire them for gigs. If I can't do a gig, I recommend one of my Dj friends. If the promoters trips cuz he's using midi controller, I say hey fucker you hired me and I can rock the crowd...this guy can too! But also by having other Dj friends it opens the door to use there gear. So I would say to get other there and meet other djs! |
| Nguyet Shedenhelm 27.02.2010 | My answer is vinyl. you can get a better quality TT for cheaper that a better quality CDJ. I myself was using just a VCI-100. I then got 2 Stanton Str8-80 TT and I love them. Had to pickup Traktor Scratch Pro but worth it. |
| Steeve Lauritano 27.02.2010 | IMO you should know how to beatmatch in any case just for yourself (great skill to have), but at the same time stick to your guns and push your MIDI setup. |
| Dj LsEx 27.02.2010 | Haha. "We've got a Gateway computer from 1998 with ReBirth, WinAmp, and a clipart collection of silly looking stick figures working in various professions. Don't disappoint me." |
| Roselle Mcnaul 27.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by PartyMcFly
"CDJs?, turntables?. Pfft, none of that shit here. You want this gig, you use what we got." "What do you have?" "A dual cassette player hooked into a Radio Shack mixer. When can you start." |
| Dj LsEx 27.02.2010 | I really relly really support anyone's desire to learn beatmatching by ear, but I'd tell that club owner to GTFO. Or, rather, GTFO myself. Vinyl and CD stubbornness has been the first sign of an arduous working relationship in my experience. |
| Beckie Baglia 26.02.2010 | I want to learn. Just depends on if I'm comfortable doing it. |
| juan garcia 26.02.2010 | well part of the business of being a dj is catering to the needs of your employer...so one should keep that in mind if their goal is having a successful relations with your employer over not really caring about what they say |
| Sharleen Binckley 26.02.2010 | @BigC +1. Exactly, if you WANT to learn to beat match, go for it. Don't do it just cos some promoter said so. |
| Audrey Pinda 26.02.2010 | To the OP, do what you want. Personally I cannot see it being anything except useful to learn how to mix on any given type of gear . Just practice in general will make you better at what you do, and having a traditional setup or being able to use one is essentially "going through the ropes" of a sort. Not that it's needed, and you can do whatever you like. But as you can see on here, there are a lot of different opinions on the subject. But honestly if you only plan on using your controller, stick with that. If you have funds to spare and want to get in on a CDJ/Vinyl setup, go for it. It can't hurt, will probably be a lot of fun learning something new, and won't hurt you in the least. At the worst, you can say you have tried it and you didn't like it, and at best, you might be won over. I look at it like this. I went to school for a bit for architecture. That being said, they don't tell you to build a house right off the bat. They make you draw and do math without calculators, and know the basics before you get to the point where technology can essentially take over the minor aspects, and you get to work on other things. Knowing how to do something without computers will do nothing but benefit you in the long run. |
| Sharleen Binckley 26.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
If someone says "you're using a laptop, you're not a proper DJ!", "No, I'm a controllerist", what can they say? Nothing, it'll put them in their place. |
| Sharleen Binckley 26.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by stringerhye
Can you not just plug in your midi controller via USB then use the headphone output on your laptop? Minimal effort man, just get one long ass mini jack to phono lead to connect to the system. The ONLY reason anyone should say you can't use a laptop is because it might require a lot of faffing around to hook up interfaces into the back of mixers etc. If all you need is a phono input to rock out don't go learning a whole new way of working. Laptops can fit anywhere, its the interface hook up that's the potential deal breaker. Besides, do you really plan on now forking out on a new vinyl collection just so you can mix on decks? CD's is a bit more straight forward obviously but do you really plan on starting all over again on something that isn't what you do? Beat matching is one thing but it can take years to be able to learn to do more then just beat match, and you aint gonna get anywhere purely on the fact you can beat match on a pair of CDJ's (not unless you got your own tunes). |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 26.02.2010 | Whilst i agree with all of the main part of the post, this bit below is wrong surely.
Originally Posted by dodge
Disc Jockey or DJ is just a convenient term of reference. Its an old term that has an over-arching meaning. Were all DJs. There can be varying types, vinyl, digital or whatever but the guy who plays the music in whatever format is the DJ. Going down a dangerous road singling out different mediums. You can use CDs and never touch a platter (Denon 1800). Or use a CD player that has internal memory with mp3. You can use DVS with cd timecode, you dont actually touch any discs but your still DJing despite not playing with the disc. If someone says what do you do, your a DJ. What kind of DJ? a controllerist. Your still a DJ. |
| Beckie Baglia 26.02.2010 | So, e-mailed the guy, told him basically that I feel pretty confident that I can beatmatch on CDJs but it won't be as good as my mixes with my laptop and that I couldn't record a mix for him at the moment.... No e-mail back. It's frustrating to say the least. However, playing a friends party in march and they're all a bunch of DJs; much older than me. So he's agreed to let me practice on his decks for a while. How long would you say it takes to get something like beatmatching down if I've been doing the computer thing for about a year now. |
| Sharleen Binckley 26.02.2010 | Haven't read all the posts, bit lengthy, but I agree with DvlsAdvct. If you started mixing vinyl or what ever back in the day, that was all you could physically use, there was no Traktor etc. Or maybe it was your choice to start on decks regardless. Now you can use midi controllers and have all your shit sync'd. If that's how you started out why move backwards instead of forwards? Nowadays you can drum rhythm's on a midi pad controller with your fingers, does that mean you gotta go out and learn to play the drums the old fashioned way? If you play on a PSP should you have to go and get to grips with gameboy? If a chef has his own set of knives, is a restaurant going to tell him he has to use the in-house kitchen knives? If your act or job relies on certain gear , then you gotta use your gear . If someone wants to book you after hearing your shit and you require your gear to do the job then make it clear that's what you're about. If it was you who started chasing them and they specifically use CD DJ's or vinyl DJ's for what ever reason then that's your tough titties. But the fact he asked you means you can say you'll play but you use a laptop, that's the way you roll, that's your act, and what of it? What's the big deal anyway? Just take your laptop and midi controller and set it up, whack it on top of the TT's with the lids on or some shit. What, are laptops not allowed in the DJ booth or something? Just remember, the letters DJ stand for disc jockey. Seeing as you don't use any form of disc you're not a disc jockey. If anyone says we need a CD/vinyl DJ, all you gotta say is "I'm not a DJ, I'm a controllerist" .... and for that you require your laptop. DJ's require records, controllerists require their controllers. Am I wrong? (technically speaking) |
| Roberto Viccione 27.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by FUFR
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| Ethelyn Vallelunga 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
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| Roberto Viccione 25.02.2010 | I believe CDJs bring nothing to the table that you can't learn exactly the same on a laptop. You get BPM readouts, you do basic math and move the pitch fader. Hell, you can make laptops MORE complicated than CDJs. I believe learning vinyl is much more useful because it forces you to mix and spin in very particular ways that the other mediums can't replicate, outside of DVS. I agree with mmauve that it can't hurt to be well rounded, but I don't believe it actually helps make someone a better DJ. And for promoters that believe like that, well, it's backward, anachronistic, and, in my opinion, stupid. Does it make the situation any easier? No. Does it change the OP's situation? No. Could a good conversation with that promoter change this? Maybe. And that, to me, is the preferred outcome. We'd all look at a promoter cross eyed if this same conversation was limited to vinyl, unless it was a specific, VERY niche scene. |
| juan garcia 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
believe of it from the point of view of this promoter, in his/her mind everyone else is doing just fine on cdjs, and then this one dj wants to bring in their laptop, soundcard, and controller to do what is perceived by the promoter as the same thing....dj. from the point of view of the producer, that probably seems mind boggling. if we are talking about a club where the owner/promoter/check writer prefers their djs spinning on cd-js then a dj who can spin on cd-js is more legit then a dj who can't, in that situation. |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Id like to make a Fidget Step Dub & Bass version of it. |
| Roberto Viccione 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by mmauve
Overall I believe we have an understanding. This is where our discussion deviates, and what I believe the crux of the situation is. I spun on CDs as a resident at a small club in Manhattan for a year and a half. I beatmatched, mixed, did everything. Then I decided it was easier to carry a backpack with my DJ gear than almost 1000 CDs with me. So I moved to my laptop. Suddenly I wasn't a DJ anymore to some people. It didn't matter what I was doing before, it just mattered what I was doing then. The only way we're going to get ourselves out of this stigma is by proving that laptop DJs not only can be, but have to be, talented and disciplined, just as much as turntable DJs and CD DJs (well, moreso than CD DJs, in my opinion). But what good does it do to go out and say "Well, I can spin on this antiquated method that will soon be pointless, so that means I'm a more legit laptop DJ"? It's one thing to learn it, understand it, but it's another to be required to use it to prove your skill. You might need to learn how to develop film in a dark room, but if you're trying to get a photographer gig they are going to want to see your best work. And that's what they are going to expect. This is the same exact thing. Learning vinyl might make one a better DJ (and I believe CDs will add nothing) but why would a promoter want you to spin in a way that isn't your preferred method, when you might not be as good? Seriously, it boggles my mind. |
| Roselle Mcnaul 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
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| Roberto Viccione 25.02.2010 | Totally just $0.02 from here on out. We can all have civil discussions
Originally Posted by mmauve
Yes, I believe so. If you are unable to perform basic functions without the aid of a program, all that makes you is a fluent user of that program. Knowing only one medium - the one which makes your job the easiest at that - is crippling to a DJ specifically. It has nothing to do with "keeping it old school" or showing that promoter where he can shove it, we're talking foundation level skills to make yourself a valued and reliable asset at any gig in a utilitarian sense as well as expanding your experience out. I consider it the same as accumulating job experience. Again, it will only help you in the long run to keep your game sharp and well versed.
The time read out existed before a CDJ, they were called 12" record grooves, and they worked really well. Knowing when a track is going to end has never been a crutch, it's been a fundamental knowledge. The CDJ-1000 provides no more on a visible level than a record cut did - yes even waveform (though both mediums were very limited), and as a matter of fact on a CDJ its fairly crappy, because that's a dot matrix resolution readout. Regardless it serves its basic purpose in letting you know when the phases come in and out, just like a record groove did. I don't call any of these things crutches, the bare basics simply shifted to a bare level digital medium, and they existed well before it.
I agree, this is a great idea actually. Hell, with anyone really. Create a youtube channel, and print the link on the label of your CD promos. It looks good too if people subscribe to it, the more people interested, the more interested the promoter. It also gives a good insight as to how busy you are while using your medium, and will drive your point home more than words will.
Once again, no offense meant to anyone specifically. I like discussions like this with people who disagree and can stay civil, so yeah. Even if we just agree to disagree, it's nice to talk about something with smart people on the internet. |
| Roselle Mcnaul 25.02.2010 | That's really cool actually |
| Beckie Baglia 25.02.2010 | I'm in film school and it's very similar. We're learning how to use film cameras, even though in all likelihood we'll never actually use them in most of our student films. It is essential to know where it came from. |
| Roselle Mcnaul 25.02.2010 | Again, $0.02:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
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| Roberto Viccione 25.02.2010 |
Originally Posted by mpetersen3
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| Beckie Baglia 25.02.2010 | Totally, I want to learn. It's just the investment is so high for something like that. Where can you rent CDJs? I've been practicing on traktor with my x-session pro without using sync and I believe I have it down. Depends on if he wants no laptops at all. Or if they allow serato. I can do it pretty well with the help of visual cues. |
| Hertha Fang 25.02.2010 | hey I believe you should bring up the fact that you are using a generator and power also, I power my sets by simultaneously riding a bicycle and using the laptop battery, my mixes sound like shit, but I'm legit. |
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