VCI-400 or Traktor S4
VCI-400 or Traktor S4 Posted on: 12.04.2012 by Jonas Weissenfluh Hey everyone, I've recently had the horrifying experience of having my Kontrol S4 stolen, case and all, while loading my vehicle after a gig.My natural inclination is to buy a replacement S4 but I really like the look of the VCI-400. A HUGE factor in my purchasing decision will be based on three things: 1. Sound Quality. I love the sound card on the S4 and usually run it at 48k sampling rate; does the VCI-400 compare...not just in sampling rate/buffer size but also in the sound itself? Does it sound good/rich/warm/fat/fantastic? 2. Foolproof mappings. How does the mappings for the VCI-400 work out for Traktor? Are the platters fully realized for the VCI-400 (like the S4) or does it just default into something less than ideal because it's not a Native Instruments product? How well does it integrate with Traktor? 3. USB/power/headphone output/master output. Does the USB cord "lock" into the slot the way it does with the Kontrol S4? Does the power cord stay securely into its jack? Is there sufficient output/volume from the headphones and the master? | |
| Randa Barczykowski 10.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJQA
But many driver / hardware combinations can introduce re-sampling in the driver, or poor hardware design leading to jitter and errors in the final data, eg at the digital-to-analogue convertor (DAC). So the data that is streaming through the actual hardware is rarely "bit-perfect". In fact, many DJ controllers use a USB audio design that is not much better than your average cheap USB speaker or headset. The VCI-400 however, uses an asynchronous USB audio (Google it) design, that gives truly bit-perfect results. Such a system is typically used in high-end DACs or studio interfaces. And that's why the 400 sounds so good. |
| Cole Maroto 09.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Kensic
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| Julian Ispas 09.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
Yea the cheapest authorized seller for the S4 i found was 699, and vci is 650 after rebate, so i had to jump on the vci. yea i wish i have the EGE version. just dont have the money to buy that. can i load up ean golden's mapping and get the features that the EGE has? but ill probably end up doing my own mapping. i have to say im pretty creative with that stuff. |
| Cole Maroto 09.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Kensic
anyhow, congrats on your new gear. i got the ege a while back and have been having fun with it. |
| Melinda Wubben 25.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by mrshan
To stay on topic at least a bit, out of the S4 and VCI-400, the S4 should be much better for scratching in Traktor. |
| Layne Koop 24.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by djproben
Originally Posted by djproben
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| Melinda Wubben 24.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by subject51
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| Danae Dumler 23.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj
If you happen to have an hour to invest in your understanding of sound....listen with headphones:
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| Layne Koop 23.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by TheGroovemaster
Based on Nyquist sampling theory, ANY "bottom end" (call that <100Hz for discussion) can be described and reproduced with ABSOLUTE precision by a sampling rate of at most 200Hz. The additional sampling rate only helps to "inform" the frequency content from 22.05KHz to 24KHz. There is not one bit of additional information added for frequencies below 22KHz. Not even one bit. For some perspective, after almost 20 years in the booth...I have ZERO hearing above 15kHz. Not even one bit. Now...if you wanted to talk about sampling at 24bits instead of 16bits....I'd have referred you to this: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html All of this leads to the following: human ears TOTALLY SUCK as measuring devices. If all you have are you ears, you have less than nothing in terms of quantifying sound. Even "trained" DJ ears. Even the ears of people with perfect pitch. Even the ears of audio engineers. Even your ears. If you happen to have an hour to invest in your understanding of sound....listen with headphones: |
| Randa Barczykowski 10.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJQA
But many driver / hardware combinations can introduce re-sampling in the driver, or poor hardware design leading to jitter and errors in the final data, eg at the digital-to-analogue convertor (DAC). So the data that is streaming through the actual hardware is rarely "bit-perfect". In fact, many DJ controllers use a USB audio design that is not much better than your average cheap USB speaker or headset. The VCI-400 however, uses an asynchronous USB audio (Google it) design, that gives truly bit-perfect results. Such a system is typically used in high-end DACs or studio interfaces. And that's why the 400 sounds so good. |
| Cole Maroto 09.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Kensic
|
| Julian Ispas 09.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
Yea the cheapest authorized seller for the S4 i found was 699, and vci is 650 after rebate, so i had to jump on the vci. yea i wish i have the EGE version. just dont have the money to buy that. can i load up ean golden's mapping and get the features that the EGE has? but ill probably end up doing my own mapping. i have to say im pretty creative with that stuff. |
| Cole Maroto 09.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Kensic
anyhow, congrats on your new gear. i got the ege a while back and have been having fun with it. |
| Julian Ispas 09.08.2012 | after reading all the threads about vci400 vs s4. i decided to buy the vci 400 which turns out to be cheaper then the s4 by about 50$. i already have TP2, so i guess i could have resold the one that comes with the s4. so i guess the price is even. the things that sold me for the 400. 1) construction, very important to me, because i keep my stuff very clean, that way when i resell, i can almost always get my investment $ back 2) i like to do my own midi mapping. i hate using someone else that doesnt work for my personal taste. 3) form factor. smaller is better for mobility 4) more buttons!!!! that means less of pushing shift keys, sometime i just dont have the extra hand to do so in situations. |
| Guadalupe Youtzy 25.07.2012 | Thanks a bunch for all the insight and great info. !!! hmm..between the s4 and vci 400... I like the fact that the VCI 400 can perform stand alone with a firmware update. How about adding external vinyl turntables, how's the support? Would'nt that be better than jogwheels? |
| Melinda Wubben 25.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by mrshan
To stay on topic at least a bit, out of the S4 and VCI-400, the S4 should be much better for scratching in Traktor. |
| Guadalupe Youtzy 25.07.2012 | So I'm quite a noob too and excited about the price drops on the S4 and VCI-400 in some places. I am wanting to explore scratching as well (both jog wheels and vinyl) so what would you guys recommend? |
| Layne Koop 24.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by djproben
Originally Posted by djproben
|
| Melinda Wubben 24.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by subject51
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| Danae Dumler 23.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj
If you happen to have an hour to invest in your understanding of sound....listen with headphones:
|
| Layne Koop 23.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by TheGroovemaster
Based on Nyquist sampling theory, ANY "bottom end" (call that <100Hz for discussion) can be described and reproduced with ABSOLUTE precision by a sampling rate of at most 200Hz. The additional sampling rate only helps to "inform" the frequency content from 22.05KHz to 24KHz. There is not one bit of additional information added for frequencies below 22KHz. Not even one bit. For some perspective, after almost 20 years in the booth...I have ZERO hearing above 15kHz. Not even one bit. Now...if you wanted to talk about sampling at 24bits instead of 16bits....I'd have referred you to this: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html All of this leads to the following: human ears TOTALLY SUCK as measuring devices. If all you have are you ears, you have less than nothing in terms of quantifying sound. Even "trained" DJ ears. Even the ears of people with perfect pitch. Even the ears of audio engineers. Even your ears. If you happen to have an hour to invest in your understanding of sound....listen with headphones: |
| Niki Rolfs 23.04.2012 | Just as an aside regarding sound quality: The VCI 400 is the ONLY DJ I/O the complies with the XMOS bit perfect standards. There is no other interface that has the ability to play audio at that quality. Not to mention the combi connectors are worlds better than the typical RCA jacks found on most DJ kit... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Zb97QA&cad=rja |
| Kimberlee Bosel 17.04.2012 | The difference is noticeable but isn't a killer. I just find that I have to move my hand a bit slower when trying to line up the track sometimes, but otherwise I don't notice it all that often since I have adjusted accordingly. |
| Melinda Wubben 16.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by donutsdc
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| Janyce Henningson 16.04.2012 | Groovemaster if you want to do some scratching get the S4 If you don't get the VCI I have a VCI and used to have an S4 If scratching is important (get some decks!) - the S4 |
| Jonas Weissenfluh 16.04.2012 | I am really, really torn. I honestly don't know what to do...maybe I'll pop into Guitar Center and try out a stock VCI. |
| Jonas Weissenfluh 15.04.2012 | donutsdc: how significant is the difference in controlling the track vs the S4? is it a noticeable difference? |
| Kimberlee Bosel 15.04.2012 | It isn't necessarily a difference you can hear, it's all just computer signals controlling the software anyways. It just basically means the jogwheel controls are not as precise when you compare the two. The major difference people speak of is the ability to scratch better with the S4 jogs as compared to others. DJTT has upgrade the jog response on the VCI-100, who knows if they can do the same with the VCI-400. As for me, I don't scratch at all but I have noticed that when you even attempt to, the S4 jogs just feels tighter on controlling the track than the VCI-400; it feels like it slips a little bit on the VCI. Otherwise, when just using the jogs normally to pitch bend or traverse the track, it feels fine to me. |
| Jonas Weissenfluh 16.04.2012 | Wait guys - you're saying the VCI400's platters are not HID? Is this a huge difference...could I hear a difference? Isn't a MIDI platter simply 128 or 164 points (or somewhere in that range) that are able to be touched/scratched? What about the jogwheel portion of the platter...will I have any issues with minute tempo adjustments? |
| Ashanti Andreacchio 14.04.2012 | Been saving up for the VCI400 since it was released but always end up spending money on some other gear half way My friend who also is a DJ has the S4 and I really like it but I don't scratch and the new firmware give the VCI stand alone mixer so I know witch one I'll get. |
| Johnetta Olewine 14.04.2012 | vci400. standalone mixer firmware update. Trumps the s4 IMO |
| Timothy Natour 14.04.2012 | GrooveMaster- If you're still worried about protection even thought it has metal instead of plastic as the s4, you can buy the VCI-400 with a mono bag bundle and the mono bags has almost no extra cost. VCI-400 on own is $1079, with bag its 1079. I,m also torn. I believe i will stick with the s4. I'm gonna get the s4 complete bundle. which is pretty good because one mf pro, one rokit5, tma-1,s and one S4 with mono bag bundle = over $1650. 2 rokits, S4, MonoBag, Midifighter classic and Tma-1,s = $1400. My only problem is that it is a midi fighter classic. but i guess the s4 can do all the fx nicely. Sorry if i'm going waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy off topic. |
| Kimberlee Bosel 13.04.2012 | I have had the same unfortunate event happen to me GrooveMaster, all of my gear got stolen (DJTT S4 package that had headphones, Midi Fighter, etc) stolen from my friend's car after a gig. Since I knew the VCI-400 EGE was coming out, I waited for that and quite frankly, I am happy with it. I do not scratch so the loss of having HID jogwheels is not a big deal to me. The things that I like over the S4: 1) Bit smaller 2) More flexibility in mapping (especially having the Gratify mapping built into the controller, consolidating the need for a Midifighter) 3) Build quality is great 4) Adjustable tension for the jogwheels 5) Input/Outputs 6) Pretty lights The main reason I chose to go with the VCI-400 EGE over getting another S4 is that I just simply like the flexibility of the unit itself. I also believe the unit overall looks better than the S4. Otherwise, I would definitely get another S4. Of course though, this applies to the EGE version of the VCI-400. I've heard from several people that they do not like the Traktor mapping supplied by Vestax itself, but already lots of people have taken to making their own. |
| Carey Leid 13.04.2012 | Dude, DJTT version comes with a $200 bag, powertools, Blue DJTT USB, and amazing product support from DJTT, that's worth well over $200 in my opinion. But regardless of which VCI-400 you get, the cord is too short and it's not a great design in my opinion, you just need a longer cord that's not so sensitive. |
| Jonas Weissenfluh 13.04.2012 | Kamjongill - you're saying that as long I purchase a better power cord that has a better "fit", I should be fine? DJQA - I do a whole lot of direct vinyl-to-FLAC conversion so I can often get a better sampling rate; however, even when this isn't the case, I've noticed that I get a "bigger" sound when running 48k (vs 44.1k) on big club systems (particularly on the bottom end), even when it's simply resampling a 44.1k song. I've only noticed this with NI cards; I have a few different manufacturers' sound cards and have heard a similarity between my S4, S2 and Audio Kontrol 1 when running 48k vs 44.1k. Strangely enough, my M-Audio and PreSonus interfaces lack that difference. ___________________________________________ I believe I'm going to order the stock VCI-400 from zzounds.com - they've always been good to me and with price matching I can get the price down to around $800...a price I can live with. The DJTT edition looks tempting, particularly the firmware, but not nearly enough for me to plunk down an extra $200. You guys have sold me on the VCI-400. Thank you very, very much! |
| Melinda Wubben 13.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by TheGroovemaster
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| Carey Leid 13.04.2012 | Same, I'm not a heavy scratcher and the DJTT is definitely better than the stock. The USB will stay in, I've moved my controller and had no problems with the USB, but the powercord needs to be replaced. Easy fix, 7.5v 1200ma ac adaptor. And yes, same, if not better sound quality. |
| Jonas Weissenfluh 13.04.2012 | Thanks for the quick replies! Kamjongill - I play large local venues often and ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT have a controller or program fail on me - is the power cord/usb problem a legitimate issue or can I feel confident keeping it in a case while playing? Also, when it comes to deejaying I'm most definitely not a turntablist; I'm a great programmer but my hands just do not do well with scratching/juggling lol...would you say the DJTT mapping is better than the stock mapping? Invoke/Kamjongill - you would both state that the sound quality is at least as good as an S4, if not better? |
| Kristin Tesfamichael 12.04.2012 | I'de go with the 400, it's newer that the s4 and has a few more features than the s4. also keep in mind that vestax has been making dj products for decades and NI is still just getting started, so the build quality will be superior on the vci 400. the sound and build quality where actually the only 2 reasons why I got rid of my s4 |
| Carey Leid 12.04.2012 | I sold my S4 for the VCI-400 EGE and I don't regret a thing. 1) As far as sound quality, it has a built in soundcard and personally, I can't even tell a difference between the 2. 2) DJTT did a really great job with making the mapping really tight with Traktor. 3) The USB does not lock and I'll be honest, my power adaptor has gotten bumped and completely shut off my VCI, that is my one complaint. Everything else is fine. So, personally, I'm leaning towards the 400, just replace the power cord. |
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