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what's the problem with beatmixing?

Home :: Free word - say whatever you like which does not fit under the other topics. :: what's the problem with beatmixing?Reply

what's the problem with beatmixing? Posted on: 31.05.2013 by Melany Bondanza hey, i'm a digital dj .. and i know if I want to start playing in clubs the chances are very high I have to play on CDJ's so my biggest worry is beatmatching .. but what I dont fully understand is the problem of beatmatching.. beacuse isn't it true you can see the BPM of the tracks playing on the CDJ's so the only thing you have to do is get the BPM as close as possible and then just synce them? or am I missing something
Dannie Dimora 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 It's called a straw man argument. You disregarded the issue at hand, presented a similar yet unequivalent scenario, and used it in an attempt to dismiss the original statement. No, it's not. The examples you cited were pretty much all resolved in a matter of minutes, if not seconds, so switching over to cdjs and completely changing your mixing style in that case would not result in any better solution. With hawtin, come on, you are seriously suggesting him to be flexible and play a routine which is completely based on controllers , ableton and a maschine, on cdjs?
Marjorie Fallucca 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by Ross I find over use of effects and filters quite frankly annoying, and would rather the DJ spent time beat matching for a smooth mix. +1. Sync can give dj's too much time to press more buttons and turn more knobs. More often than not, this does not improve the music coming out of the speakers.
Dannie Dimora 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by m4rkw hey, i'm a digital dj .. and i know if I want to start playing in clubs the chances are very high I have to play on CDJ's so my biggest worry is beatmatching .. but what I dont fully understand is the problem of beatmatching.. beacuse isn't it true you can see the BPM of the tracks playing on the CDJ's so the only thing you have to do is get the BPM as close as possible and then just synce them? or am I missing something Only the 2000 has .1 bpm detection, so matching by numbers would only result in a couple beats in time. Also, beat detection on pios isn't as accurate as, say, in serato or traktor. So as other suggested, try shutting down your monitor and turning off sync.
Doreen Schurle 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 When there's perfectly working gear staring you in the face and your laptop breaks there's just no excuse for being unable to mix. These are big-name DJs playing the biggest festivals where there are endless replacement CDJs and mixers available, yet they are left completely helpless when the inevitable computer problems occur. Saying "everything could break at the same time" is a very weak and desperate counter argument. How is it desperate OR weak? I've just given you a SPECIFIC example from real life where exactly that happened.
Doreen Schurle 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by Ed Paris i highly disagree with you. i
Matt Kane 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by b1sh0p ...When you first start getting booked, showing up with a a controller, taking 5 minutes to set up, plugging and unplugging shit and generally moving things around in the booth is a real bad look, especially for an up and comer. If you're well known and people actually came out to see you, do whatever the hell you want. When you're starting out though, don't make bad impressions. i highly disagree with you. i
Sonja Roybal 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Some people use CDJs, some people use controllers. The OP - and everyone, for that matter - should use whatever the hell they want and don't let anyone else pressurize them into using anything else. I'm not trying to stop you from using your CDJ100s, or makar1 from using his 2000s, so I'll be damned if I'm going to let you guys convince someone else he shouldn't use his controller. You people are just as bad as I used to be when I tried to stop people from using CDJs back in the vinyl days. The difference is, I grew up eventually. I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. I use a controller at home too. I'm not rich and it doesn't make much sense for me to invest in an expensive modular set up. @ the OP Learning to beatmatch and dj in the traditional way will make you a better, more versatile dj. Whether right or wrong, controllers tend to be looked down on. When you first start getting booked, showing up with a a controller, taking 5 minutes to set up, plugging and unplugging shit and generally moving things around in the booth is a real bad look, especially for an up and comer. If you're well known and people actually came out to see you, do whatever the hell you want. When you're starting out though, don't make bad impressions.
Latoria Kavulich 01.06.2013	answer the guys question or dont post. simple. when 3 posts in the same thread get reported i get annoyed. so yet again i'm going to have to close a thread because instead of helping someone out with a legitimate question, some of you would rather start your elitist bollocks yet again. if this happens again several of you will be getting holidays.
Ashanti Andreacchio 01.06.2013	What I've noticed lately is that I don't beatmatch by ear alone as soon as I get sound in the earphones I start listening with my feet. I've probable alway done it but just realiced it a few days ago. well I do difrient the 2 tune in my ear but my feet can tell me if what beat is ahead or behind when i've nuke the incomeing track eater way.
Dannie Dimora 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 It's called a straw man argument. You disregarded the issue at hand, presented a similar yet unequivalent scenario, and used it in an attempt to dismiss the original statement. No, it's not. The examples you cited were pretty much all resolved in a matter of minutes, if not seconds, so switching over to cdjs and completely changing your mixing style in that case would not result in any better solution. With hawtin, come on, you are seriously suggesting him to be flexible and play a routine which is completely based on controllers , ableton and a maschine, on cdjs?
Marjorie Fallucca 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by Ross I find over use of effects and filters quite frankly annoying, and would rather the DJ spent time beat matching for a smooth mix. +1. Sync can give dj's too much time to press more buttons and turn more knobs. More often than not, this does not improve the music coming out of the speakers.
Dannie Dimora 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by m4rkw hey, i'm a digital dj .. and i know if I want to start playing in clubs the chances are very high I have to play on CDJ's so my biggest worry is beatmatching .. but what I dont fully understand is the problem of beatmatching.. beacuse isn't it true you can see the BPM of the tracks playing on the CDJ's so the only thing you have to do is get the BPM as close as possible and then just synce them? or am I missing something Only the 2000 has .1 bpm detection, so matching by numbers would only result in a couple beats in time. Also, beat detection on pios isn't as accurate as, say, in serato or traktor. So as other suggested, try shutting down your monitor and turning off sync.
Olin Easley 01.06.2013	The point is that when the CDJs fail, the promoters don't have any reason to be unhappy with you. However, if your laptop fails and there are CDJs which you can't use, they may not like that and try to find someone else who's more prepared. There's noone better in the battle of CDJs vs controllers and you don't have to be able to use both, but it may prove beneficial to be able to use the club's gear if shit hits the fan.
Alphonso Deitchman 01.06.2013	It's called a straw man argument. You disregarded the issue at hand, presented a similar yet unequivalent scenario, and used it in an attempt to dismiss the original statement.
Doreen Schurle 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 When there's perfectly working gear staring you in the face and your laptop breaks there's just no excuse for being unable to mix. These are big-name DJs playing the biggest festivals where there are endless replacement CDJs and mixers available, yet they are left completely helpless when the inevitable computer problems occur. Saying "everything could break at the same time" is a very weak and desperate counter argument. How is it desperate OR weak? I've just given you a SPECIFIC example from real life where exactly that happened.
Alphonso Deitchman 01.06.2013	When there's perfectly working gear staring you in the face and your laptop breaks there's just no excuse for being unable to mix. These are big-name DJs playing the biggest festivals where there are endless replacement CDJs and mixers available, yet they are left completely helpless when the inevitable computer problems occur. Saying "everything could break at the same time" is a very weak and desperate counter argument.
Doreen Schurle 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by Ed Paris i highly disagree with you. i
Alphonso Deitchman 01.06.2013	It doesn't matter what you use, as long as you are flexible and are able use CDJs if and when necessary. You don't want to end up in these situations... Code: http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2013/...aptop-trouble/ http://youtu.be/fF1OMZ2IGZk http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/16014097 (12:00) http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2013/04...-at-coachella/
Matt Kane 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by b1sh0p ...When you first start getting booked, showing up with a a controller, taking 5 minutes to set up, plugging and unplugging shit and generally moving things around in the booth is a real bad look, especially for an up and comer. If you're well known and people actually came out to see you, do whatever the hell you want. When you're starting out though, don't make bad impressions. i highly disagree with you. i
Julissa Serrone 01.06.2013	same guy with the same ramble
Sonja Roybal 01.06.2013	"We're sliding into a sync debate." LOL. No, "we" aren't.
Sonja Roybal 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Some people use CDJs, some people use controllers. The OP - and everyone, for that matter - should use whatever the hell they want and don't let anyone else pressurize them into using anything else. I'm not trying to stop you from using your CDJ100s, or makar1 from using his 2000s, so I'll be damned if I'm going to let you guys convince someone else he shouldn't use his controller. You people are just as bad as I used to be when I tried to stop people from using CDJs back in the vinyl days. The difference is, I grew up eventually. I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. I use a controller at home too. I'm not rich and it doesn't make much sense for me to invest in an expensive modular set up. @ the OP Learning to beatmatch and dj in the traditional way will make you a better, more versatile dj. Whether right or wrong, controllers tend to be looked down on. When you first start getting booked, showing up with a a controller, taking 5 minutes to set up, plugging and unplugging shit and generally moving things around in the booth is a real bad look, especially for an up and comer. If you're well known and people actually came out to see you, do whatever the hell you want. When you're starting out though, don't make bad impressions.
Annalisa Shogren 01.06.2013	Someone give him a hand job.
Len Lukawski 02.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Are you ever going to stop arguing for the sake of it? Plenty of club DJs I know - in fact, the MAJORITY of my colleagues - use controllers in a wide range of clubs. Just because YOU use Pioneer doesn't mean everyone else is expected to. Does someone need a hug?
Vaughn Malbon 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by m4rkw hey, i'm a digital dj .. and i know if I want to start playing in clubs the chances are very high I have to play on CDJ's so my biggest worry is beatmatching .. but what I dont fully understand is the problem of beatmatching.. beacuse isn't it true you can see the BPM of the tracks playing on the CDJ's so the only thing you have to do is get the BPM as close as possible and then just synce them? or am I missing something Shhhhhh... your not meant to say that!! Thats the biggest elephant in the room when it comes to DJ'ing and beatmatching. You can't reduce beatmatching to nudging the jog wheel every now and then to 'keep them in time' So don't ever say it again!!
Augustine Mitzen 01.06.2013	no one's sliding into sync debate
Alphonso Deitchman 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign There's a difference between being a clueless waverider and just being a waverider though. It's quite possible to mix visually and have it sound FANTASTIC. Like everything, it's all about practice. If the OP is more comfortable mixing with waveforms, then he should feel free to continue doing so. The important thing is how it SOUNDS, and however he gets there is fine by me, the audience, and any reputable club or promoter. Sounds like you have lots of practice to do then. The pitch fader was added to the SL 1200 back in 1979. It is not a new feature by any means.
Doreen Schurle 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by johney There's true to that, but it's always what you use vs. how you actually use it, beatmixing is the very basic of dance music deejaying, and people should learn it. There's too much clueless waveriders these days There's a difference between being a clueless waverider and just being a waverider though. It's quite possible to mix visually and have it sound FANTASTIC. Like everything, it's all about practice. If the OP is more comfortable mixing with waveforms, then he should feel free to continue doing so. The important thing is how it SOUNDS, and however he gets there is fine by me, the audience, and any reputable club or promoter. Waveforms are just the next big feature in DJing. I remember when DJs first started using pitchfaders (I was a kid back then, mind you, but I still remember it). The ability to have a nice, long fader to control your pitch rather than little knobs on a belt-drive twin deck setup was fantastic, and yet people STILL moaned about how it was "cheating". "Oh look, it's got a +/- scale next to it... if you know the BPMs of your tracks you can cheat and get them in tempo easily." Then it was LED kick meters on mixers, then BPM displays, and now its waveforms and sync. There are ALWAYS people who'll moan about how something new is "cheating", but the fact is that the ONLY thing which doesn't change in the DJing industry is that there are plenty of assholes out there who like to tell other people how they "should" be doing something. Anyway, we're sliding very rapidly into a sync debate, and that's not my point. My point - for the OP - is, use whatever gear makes you feel comfortable and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. When I'm not hanging out on DJTT, I'm CONSTANTLY having to console newbie DJs who've let others influence the way they DJ in a negative way. It's rare I won't hear, "I hate using XYZ but so-and-so told me I had to use it to be taken seriously", and it sets their career back. Some people have even become SO disillusioned with everything they've just upped and quit, and as a DJ - and a "fan" of the industry as a whole - that makes me both sad and pissed off. EDIT: Originally Posted by makar1 The gear we own personally is not relevant. If you don't know how to use club gear , you shouldn't be playing there. That's YOUR opinion, and it's not borne out by facts. Stop misleading people.
Alphonso Deitchman 01.06.2013	The gear we own personally is not relevant. If you don't know how to use club gear , you shouldn't be playing there. The OP is clearly aware of this from reading the very first post. It was just a simple post about learning to beatmatch, yet you turned it into a means of pushing your controller+sync agenda.
Latoria Kavulich 01.06.2013	OP, buy or borrow some CDJ's and get practising.
Augustine Mitzen 01.06.2013	There's true to that, but it's always what you use vs. how you actually use it, beatmixing is the very basic of dance music deejaying, and people should learn it. There's too much clueless waveriders these days
Doreen Schurle 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by johney and everybody worldwide uses CDJs. just because you use controllers... Some people use CDJs, some people use controllers. The OP - and everyone, for that matter - should use whatever the hell they want and don't let anyone else pressurize them into using anything else. I'm not trying to stop you from using your CDJ100s, or makar1 from using his 2000s, so I'll be damned if I'm going to let you guys convince someone else he shouldn't use his controller. You people are just as bad as I used to be when I tried to stop people from using CDJs back in the vinyl days. The difference is, I grew up eventually.
Augustine Mitzen 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Are you ever going to stop arguing for the sake of it? Plenty of club DJs I know - in fact, the MAJORITY of my colleagues - use controllers in a wide range of clubs. Just because YOU use Pioneer doesn't mean everyone else is expected to. and everybody worldwide uses CDJs. just because you use controllers...
Alphonso Deitchman 01.06.2013	Doesn't have to be Pioneer. It just has to be computer-free without sync.
Doreen Schurle 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 If you want to start playing in clubs, you'll need to know how to use their gear . Which is almost always a pair of CDJs. Are you ever going to stop arguing for the sake of it? Plenty of club DJs I know - in fact, the MAJORITY of my colleagues - use controllers in a wide range of clubs. Just because YOU use Pioneer doesn't mean everyone else is expected to.
Alphonso Deitchman 01.06.2013	If you want to start playing in clubs, you'll need to know how to use their gear . Which is almost always a pair of CDJs.
Doreen Schurle 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by m4rkw okay so if I want to be able to mix on a CDJ or turntables, I just need to turn of my screen? No BPM meters, No small waveforms and no cue points? beacue spinning on some CDJ's isn't a option for me :\ to get te money for a pair is going to take ages and I know nobody who ownes a pair :\ Basically, yeah. But if you're happy using controllers, there's really no need to change.
Melany Bondanza 01.06.2013	okay so if I want to be able to mix on a CDJ or turntables, I just need to turn of my screen? No BPM meters, No small waveforms and no cue points? beacue spinning on some CDJ's isn't a option for me :\ to get te money for a pair is going to take ages and I know nobody who ownes a pair :\
Ngoc Ninow 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by Ross I find over use of effects and filters quite frankly annoying, and would rather the DJ spent time beat matching for a smooth mix.. Amen to that! I love effects and the application of effects, and my RMX1000, but for me they should be a creative tool, and not just a tool for covering up bad mixes. Yeah, we all do something that we are less than impressed with/proud of sometimes and it's great to be able to try and cover these up, but this is not the sole purpose of effects; they are not a substitute for beat matching. I refuse to get into the whole sync synch debate. I don't use it so it would be unfair for me to wade into this, but when I started out, beatmatching was THE fundamental skill. I believe it's something we should ALL be able to do, even if we don't all do it all the time!
Annalisa Shogren 01.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Some people put far too much emphasis on beatmatching. Back when I was using vinyl, it was the mark of a good DJ to be able to blend two tracks seamlessly by ear, but nowadays it is - in my opinion - one of the LEAST important skills a DJ can have. If you've taken the time to grid your tracks properly, then being able to beatmatch them all manually is not only pointless, it's an utter, utter waste of time. Time that could be better spent working on things like phrasing, EQing, effects, correct use of HPF/LPF filters, etc. I find over use of effects and filters quite frankly annoying, and would rather the DJ spent time beat matching for a smooth mix. Originally Posted by mdcdesign Also, you'll never "have" to play on CDJs. If you want to use controllers, use controllers. And just in case someone says, "yeah but sometimes Traktor gets the grids wrong, or "sometimes sync doesn't work", you've still got your waveforms. If you're going to practice beatmatching at all, use the waveforms. That's what they're there for. Don't rely on them though, use your ears. Originally Posted by mdcdesign And to answer your original question, yes; most DJs just match the BPMs on the display, press play and then nudge the jogwheels when using CDJs. It's not like it was in the vinyl days where people had to do everything by ear. I did this the other say on some 2000 Nexus' to see if they were really that accurate, and I found the track was going out quite a lot, even when 'matched' on screen. It was a modern tune so it's not as if it was going out due to being made in an analog age. The read out just wasn't accurate. What you have to remember about beat matching is that it's just fucking brilliant for when you're mixing with friends who use different media. E.g. if you're using Traktor and they're using Rekordbox, you aren't going to be able to sync the two and will quite frankly look like a complete rookie, and if you ever did play out in a club or get asked to do a B2B set with someone, you can't because you can't beatmatch, it's not going to reflect well on you.

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what's the problem with beatmixing?