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Technics/timecode questions

Home :: Oldschool - vinyl and disc Djs topic :: Technics/timecode questionsReply

Technics/timecode questions Posted on: 10.12.2011 by Celina Crusey I've been DJ'ing with a denon MC6000 and a midi fighter for about 5-6 months now and I still love it. I've improved a lot as a DJ over time and I've already had over 20 gigs on my college campus. I still feel like there is something to be desired as far as an analogue "feel" though. I really want to start looking into getting turntables and using timecode with them. The only problem is I have NO idea what I'm doing when it comes to turntables. So here are my questions: What model of technics should I keep my eyes out for? I see most people using 1210 MK2's and 1210 m5x's What's the difference between these models? What kind of prices are fair? I've scoured ebay and craigslist a bit and the prices are so different that I don't know what to make of it. The lowest price I saw for a pair of MK2's was $400 on craigslist. What kind of terminology should I look for in terms of needles/cartridges? Should i just get a TSP certified mixer and separate timecode vinyl to bypass buying an Traktor audio X soundcard?
Osvaldo Newhall 30.12.2011	Originally Posted by hrtbrkd Price I paid for my 1200mkII's was $500 for the pair both in emaculate condition. Congrats on those. Enjoy them!
Wei Lebeaux 25.12.2011	I still prefer external mixers (very much so). But it's an ergonomic and workflow decision
Dorie Scelzo 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth I've gotta admit Mostapha, I too have never had a problem with the internal mixer in Traktor, but I have heard alot of people on here hating on it. They probably haven't figured out that 0dB on the master volume leads to clipping or relying on the limiter. I'll agree that the limiter sounds like garbage
Wei Lebeaux 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by mostapha Traktor's internal mixer is not crappy. It sounds damn good to my ears, beter than almost any DJ mixer I've actually laid my hands on. I have my issues with it, most notably the fact that the vast majority of controllers still feel like toys to me and that it's metering is essentially useless. But sound quality is not a complaint. And switching to external just bypasses the summing bus, which is about the least complicated and most transparent thing Traktor does. It's still going through the f'd up gain stages, the EQs, the filters, and whatever else they've got going on under the hood. Sound quality and CPU are about the last reasons to go external, since it's essentially irrelevant. I've gotta admit Mostapha, I too have never had a problem with the internal mixer in Traktor, but I have heard alot of people on here hating on it.
Dorie Scelzo 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth Well, you eliminate Traktor's crappy internal mixer from the signal chain, and because you aren't running the internal mixer, I believe you'd free up some CPU power. Traktor's internal mixer is not crappy. It sounds damn good to my ears, beter than almost any DJ mixer I've actually laid my hands on. I have my issues with it, most notably the fact that the vast majority of controllers still feel like toys to me and that it's metering is essentially useless. But sound quality is not a complaint. And switching to external just bypasses the summing bus, which is about the least complicated and most transparent thing Traktor does. It's still going through the f'd up gain stages, the EQs, the filters, and whatever else they've got going on under the hood. Sound quality and CPU are about the last reasons to go external, since it's essentially irrelevant.
Delila Vandommelen 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth @Mostapha: How do you make an Audio 4 work with more than 2 channels? Isn't that why they invented the Audio 8? (Please keep in mind that I'm on Traktor Pro; I believe I remember something about Pro 2 being able to "stack" audio channels (combining more than one deck onto the same sound output.) Sure, it'll only input and output two discrete channel pairs and your concern is valid for external mixing (tp2 "stacking" aside) - if you want to output 4 channel pairs to an external mixer, you do need an A8 (and TS Pro, not Duo). However with internal mixing, as you've pointed out, you only need one output pair for Traktor's master out, and then control individual EQs and channel faders with mouse/keyboard/controllers. The catch is that it doesn't matter how many actual outputs you have vs. the number of internal decks - if you're on pro, you'll have all 4 channels and/or sample decks going through that master channel whether you have an Audio2 or or Audio10. Since we're talking about an A4, you can still use the two inputs for timecode and assign them to whichever decks you fancy. This applies to Traktor Scratch Pro too (I'm quite sure I messed about with this last year in combination with the midi mode on my then DDM 4000)
Wei Lebeaux 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by KryticalH!T Seems like option one would be the most logical way to do things, yeah? Is there any advantage to mixing externally with my controller? Well, you eliminate Traktor's crappy internal mixer from the signal chain, and because you aren't running the internal mixer, I believe you'd free up some CPU power. @Mostapha: How do you make an Audio 4 work with more than 2 channels? Isn't that why they invented the Audio 8? (Please keep in mind that I'm on Traktor Pro; I believe I remember something about Pro 2 being able to "stack" audio channels (combining more than one deck onto the same sound output.)
Celina Crusey 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth It all depends on how you want to wire your output matrix, and whether or not you want to mix internally; forgive me, as I forgot your MC-6000 can also be an actual audio mixer, so there is two potential scenarios: OPTION ONE: Set Traktor to INTERNAL mode, your audio 4 as follows: Channel A Input:Turntable one Channel B Input: Turntable two Channel A output: Master output Channel B output: Headphone (Cuing) output OPTION TWO Set Traktor to EXTERNAL mode, and wire your audio 4 as follows: Channel A Input:Turntable one Channel B Input: Turntable two Channel A Output: Turntable one Channel B Output: Turntable two Set your MC6000 to audio input mode (or mixer mode, or whatever it's called). Run Channel A into line one, channel B into line two. That should do it. Seems like option one would be the most logical way to do things, yeah? Is there any advantage to mixing externally with my controller?
Celina Crusey 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth No extra cables at all. Plug the 1200s into your audio 4 inputs. Set Traktor's mixing mode to "Internal". Set the deck modes to "Vinyl Control" and away you go. In this setup, your cueing and master outputs would come from the Audio 4, and you would only use the MC-6000 for a USB midi controller. I do this with a VCI-100 instead of an MC-6000 and it works splendidly. I always say my VCI is really a mixer with an X1 built in. So I don't plug anything into my MC6000? I thought i would've had to plug the turntables into the controller, and the audio 4 into the controller with the denon then plugged into my comp. Also, I only have 2 usb 2.0 ports...am I gunna need a usb hub of any sort?
Dorie Scelzo 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by Ryan Leo What purpose does the LED on the turntable serve? Just looks or is it to notice which table is moving faster more easily when side by side? There are 2 lights. The one next to the power knob flashes at a specific speed that makes the dots on the side of the plater appear to be still at specific speeds
Wei Lebeaux 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by KryticalH!T About to purchase a set of Technic 1200 MK2's and I have a few more questions. I have a Denon Mc6000 which can also be used as an external mixer. I'm also going to have a Traktor Audio 4 soundcard. Is there a way to set up the timecode so that i can still scroll through my songs, trigger cue points, and basically send midi like normal, but use the controller as a mixer for the Turntables? What kind of cable setup would i be looking at if that's possible? No extra cables at all. Plug the 1200s into your audio 4 inputs. Set Traktor's mixing mode to "Internal". Set the deck modes to "Vinyl Control" and away you go. In this setup, your cueing and master outputs would come from the Audio 4, and you would only use the MC-6000 for a USB midi controller. I do this with a VCI-100 instead of an MC-6000 and it works splendidly. I always say my VCI is really a mixer with an X1 built in.
Yee Bedilion 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by Xonetacular I put drop in led kits in anyway so there isn't much of a difference between the M3D and MK5. What purpose does the LED on the turntable serve? Just looks or is it to notice which table is moving faster more easily when side by side?
Osvaldo Newhall 21.12.2011	Originally Posted by mostapha lol
Dorie Scelzo 21.12.2011	lol
Osvaldo Newhall 30.12.2011	Originally Posted by hrtbrkd Price I paid for my 1200mkII's was $500 for the pair both in emaculate condition. Congrats on those. Enjoy them!
Noelia Martig 30.12.2011	Price I paid for my 1200mkII's was $500 for the pair both in emaculate condition.
Dorie Scelzo 25.12.2011	Horses for courses. The VCI-100 is completely incapable of doing anything I want.
Wei Lebeaux 25.12.2011	I still prefer external mixers (very much so). But it's an ergonomic and workflow decision
Dorie Scelzo 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth I've gotta admit Mostapha, I too have never had a problem with the internal mixer in Traktor, but I have heard alot of people on here hating on it. They probably haven't figured out that 0dB on the master volume leads to clipping or relying on the limiter. I'll agree that the limiter sounds like garbage
Wei Lebeaux 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by mostapha Traktor's internal mixer is not crappy. It sounds damn good to my ears, beter than almost any DJ mixer I've actually laid my hands on. I have my issues with it, most notably the fact that the vast majority of controllers still feel like toys to me and that it's metering is essentially useless. But sound quality is not a complaint. And switching to external just bypasses the summing bus, which is about the least complicated and most transparent thing Traktor does. It's still going through the f'd up gain stages, the EQs, the filters, and whatever else they've got going on under the hood. Sound quality and CPU are about the last reasons to go external, since it's essentially irrelevant. I've gotta admit Mostapha, I too have never had a problem with the internal mixer in Traktor, but I have heard alot of people on here hating on it.
Dorie Scelzo 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth Well, you eliminate Traktor's crappy internal mixer from the signal chain, and because you aren't running the internal mixer, I believe you'd free up some CPU power. Traktor's internal mixer is not crappy. It sounds damn good to my ears, beter than almost any DJ mixer I've actually laid my hands on. I have my issues with it, most notably the fact that the vast majority of controllers still feel like toys to me and that it's metering is essentially useless. But sound quality is not a complaint. And switching to external just bypasses the summing bus, which is about the least complicated and most transparent thing Traktor does. It's still going through the f'd up gain stages, the EQs, the filters, and whatever else they've got going on under the hood. Sound quality and CPU are about the last reasons to go external, since it's essentially irrelevant.
Delila Vandommelen 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth @Mostapha: How do you make an Audio 4 work with more than 2 channels? Isn't that why they invented the Audio 8? (Please keep in mind that I'm on Traktor Pro; I believe I remember something about Pro 2 being able to "stack" audio channels (combining more than one deck onto the same sound output.) Sure, it'll only input and output two discrete channel pairs and your concern is valid for external mixing (tp2 "stacking" aside) - if you want to output 4 channel pairs to an external mixer, you do need an A8 (and TS Pro, not Duo). However with internal mixing, as you've pointed out, you only need one output pair for Traktor's master out, and then control individual EQs and channel faders with mouse/keyboard/controllers. The catch is that it doesn't matter how many actual outputs you have vs. the number of internal decks - if you're on pro, you'll have all 4 channels and/or sample decks going through that master channel whether you have an Audio2 or or Audio10. Since we're talking about an A4, you can still use the two inputs for timecode and assign them to whichever decks you fancy. This applies to Traktor Scratch Pro too (I'm quite sure I messed about with this last year in combination with the midi mode on my then DDM 4000)
Wei Lebeaux 25.12.2011	Originally Posted by KryticalH!T Seems like option one would be the most logical way to do things, yeah? Is there any advantage to mixing externally with my controller? Well, you eliminate Traktor's crappy internal mixer from the signal chain, and because you aren't running the internal mixer, I believe you'd free up some CPU power. @Mostapha: How do you make an Audio 4 work with more than 2 channels? Isn't that why they invented the Audio 8? (Please keep in mind that I'm on Traktor Pro; I believe I remember something about Pro 2 being able to "stack" audio channels (combining more than one deck onto the same sound output.)
Dorie Scelzo 24.12.2011	An easier way to play real vinyl if you have the right cables and the MC has line/phono switches and a way to incorporate 2 more channels of audio sources from something other than traktor. Plus any features the mc6k has that traktor's internal mixer doesn't. Keep in mind that you'll be going down To 2 channels wit this setup. Traktor can't use 2 sound cards and vinyl control only works with an NI interface or scratch certified mixer. So if you want to run more than 2 decks from the software (including sample decks) you can't do it with an audio 4 unless it's in internal mode.
Celina Crusey 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth It all depends on how you want to wire your output matrix, and whether or not you want to mix internally; forgive me, as I forgot your MC-6000 can also be an actual audio mixer, so there is two potential scenarios: OPTION ONE: Set Traktor to INTERNAL mode, your audio 4 as follows: Channel A Input:Turntable one Channel B Input: Turntable two Channel A output: Master output Channel B output: Headphone (Cuing) output OPTION TWO Set Traktor to EXTERNAL mode, and wire your audio 4 as follows: Channel A Input:Turntable one Channel B Input: Turntable two Channel A Output: Turntable one Channel B Output: Turntable two Set your MC6000 to audio input mode (or mixer mode, or whatever it's called). Run Channel A into line one, channel B into line two. That should do it. Seems like option one would be the most logical way to do things, yeah? Is there any advantage to mixing externally with my controller?
Wei Lebeaux 24.12.2011	It all depends on how you want to wire your output matrix, and whether or not you want to mix internally; forgive me, as I forgot your MC-6000 can also be an actual audio mixer, so there is two potential scenarios: OPTION ONE: Set Traktor to INTERNAL mode, your audio 4 as follows: Channel A Input:Turntable one Channel B Input: Turntable two Channel A output: Master output Channel B output: Headphone (Cuing) output OPTION TWO Set Traktor to EXTERNAL mode, and wire your audio 4 as follows: Channel A Input:Turntable one Channel B Input: Turntable two Channel A Output: Turntable one Channel B Output: Turntable two Set your MC6000 to audio input mode (or mixer mode, or whatever it's called). Run Channel A into line one, channel B into line two. That should do it.
Celina Crusey 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by bmwnutfrombirth No extra cables at all. Plug the 1200s into your audio 4 inputs. Set Traktor's mixing mode to "Internal". Set the deck modes to "Vinyl Control" and away you go. In this setup, your cueing and master outputs would come from the Audio 4, and you would only use the MC-6000 for a USB midi controller. I do this with a VCI-100 instead of an MC-6000 and it works splendidly. I always say my VCI is really a mixer with an X1 built in. So I don't plug anything into my MC6000? I thought i would've had to plug the turntables into the controller, and the audio 4 into the controller with the denon then plugged into my comp. Also, I only have 2 usb 2.0 ports...am I gunna need a usb hub of any sort?
Dorie Scelzo 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by Ryan Leo What purpose does the LED on the turntable serve? Just looks or is it to notice which table is moving faster more easily when side by side? There are 2 lights. The one next to the power knob flashes at a specific speed that makes the dots on the side of the plater appear to be still at specific speeds
Wei Lebeaux 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by KryticalH!T About to purchase a set of Technic 1200 MK2's and I have a few more questions. I have a Denon Mc6000 which can also be used as an external mixer. I'm also going to have a Traktor Audio 4 soundcard. Is there a way to set up the timecode so that i can still scroll through my songs, trigger cue points, and basically send midi like normal, but use the controller as a mixer for the Turntables? What kind of cable setup would i be looking at if that's possible? No extra cables at all. Plug the 1200s into your audio 4 inputs. Set Traktor's mixing mode to "Internal". Set the deck modes to "Vinyl Control" and away you go. In this setup, your cueing and master outputs would come from the Audio 4, and you would only use the MC-6000 for a USB midi controller. I do this with a VCI-100 instead of an MC-6000 and it works splendidly. I always say my VCI is really a mixer with an X1 built in.
Yee Bedilion 24.12.2011	Originally Posted by Xonetacular I put drop in led kits in anyway so there isn't much of a difference between the M3D and MK5. What purpose does the LED on the turntable serve? Just looks or is it to notice which table is moving faster more easily when side by side?
Celina Crusey 23.12.2011	About to purchase a set of Technic 1200 MK2's and I have a few more questions. I have a Denon Mc6000 which can also be used as an external mixer. I'm also going to have a Traktor Audio 4 soundcard. Is there a way to set up the timecode so that i can still scroll through my songs, trigger cue points, and basically send midi like normal, but use the controller as a mixer for the Turntables? What kind of cable setup would i be looking at if that's possible?
Osvaldo Newhall 21.12.2011	Originally Posted by mostapha lol
Delila Vandommelen 21.12.2011	Yeah, I wasn't quite sure how to parse it properly :P
Dorie Scelzo 21.12.2011	lol
Osvaldo Newhall 21.12.2011	Originally Posted by mostapha Or you could buy freefloats or cut tennis balls in half. Or better, squash balls cut in half.
Dorie Scelzo 22.12.2011	Or you could buy freefloats or cut tennis balls in half.
Delila Vandommelen 22.12.2011	Also, the damping in the m5g is improved over previous versions. Shouldn't make a big difference at home, but it comes in handy in an environment with serious background noise and rumble going through the decks.
Romelia Stankard 21.12.2011	I would look for M3Ds or MK5s on craigslist. I put drop in led kits in anyway so there isn't much of a difference between the M3D and MK5. The MK5 has more antiskate and an LED popup. You can put a full LED kit in for like $10 so it really doesn't make a difference and you can often find M3Ds for cheap. If you get MK2s and are handy and can solder you can remove the center pitch click very easily you just need to take apart the pitch fader.
Dorie Scelzo 21.12.2011	mk2s have a center detent at 0% pitch, which is really annoying to mix with. m3d, mk5, and m5g don't. IMHO, that's the biggest difference and unless you're going to take them apart and mod the pitch fader, it makes mk2s worthless IMHO. The m5g also uses a digital pitch control which is at least as precise as the analog one and less prone to needing adjustment. Having owned mk2s and an m5g
Verona Spradlin 21.12.2011	Yep, my regular 1200MK2 has a voltage selector.

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Technics/timecode questions