My face when the experienced DJ's levels are in the RED

Yeah I don't doubt... ..experience anyway). Keep on spinnin'.

All valid points, my GB8 does meter up to +18, I don't believe I've ever hit that level, but then we go back to my argument about properly spec'ing a rig for the job.

For the record, I've been audio engineering for 13 years. 6 years as a hobbyist and 7 years professionally (ie. buying a house and raising a family only with income made from audio engineering), I am house engineer for a 1300 seat theatre with a BSS processed rig, I also work for a rental/production shop that does a minimum of two gigs and over half a dozen dry rentals a week. I also spec, sell, install and service audio systems for a number of different environments and nothing is more frustrating then talking to a new or prospective client and having to correct all the false information that so called "armchair sound engineers" have taught them. If I sound like a dick or a know-it-all, I apologize, I just don't feel that mis-information should be spread as fact.

Much like our GB8 can safely run up to +16 and sound crisp and clear, the scales on most mixers, both DJ and professional, can easily be called relative. It's up to the operator to know his gear and use his ears.

i find this highly inappropriate. you still didn't explain which of my statements were false. instead, you keep attacking me in an impertinent, unobjective tone.

Pretty sure there's something called a volume knob that will do the trick.

Whatever the situation, the SE wasn't doing his job.

Yeah I don't doubt... ..experience anyway). Keep on spinnin'.

All valid points, my GB8 does meter up to +18, I don't believe I've ever hit that level, but then we go back to my argument about properly spec'ing a rig for the job.

For the record, I've been audio engineering for 13 years. 6 years as a hobbyist and 7 years professionally (ie. buying a house and raising a family only with income made from audio engineering), I am house engineer for a 1300 seat theatre with a BSS processed rig, I also work for a rental/production shop that does a minimum of two gigs and over half a dozen dry rentals a week. I also spec, sell, install and service audio systems for a number of different environments and nothing is more frustrating then talking to a new or prospective client and having to correct all the false information that so called "armchair sound engineers" have taught them. If I sound like a dick or a know-it-all, I apologize, I just don't feel that mis-information should be spread as fact.

No doubt - the problem with running a mixer at constant peak though is that you lose any measure of how loudly you're running things. I don't expect +4db to actually be +4db, but from a practicality standpoint it gives you a fair bit of room above and below that level on the meters to see where your volume's at. If you're running at +12 even, you have no idea if you're actually running at +18 since you're already above the top of the meter on the Pio mixer.

Using your ears to check your levels can work - but not reliably, especially with listening fatigue factored in. Meters aren't infallible, but they're there for a reason. +4db on the mixer at the end of the evening will not sound like +4db at the start of the evening , even if the meters are accurate. But, like I said - I'm no expert. I'll leave the rest of this debate up to the armchair sound engineers

Two things.

1) As for the DJM 900 anyway (not sure if this applies to the 800 etc.) I read a post by one of the tech guys over on the Pio community s a while back stating that the ideal spot to run your channels and master is around +4 db. I'm not a sound engineer by any means, nor do I pretend to be an expert in the area, but to my ears +4 does sound like a pretty solid sweet spot in practice.

i find this highly inappropriate. you still didn't explain which of my statements were false. instead, you keep attacking me in an impertinent, unobjective tone.

but i've yet to see the technology that makes 100% sure that a DJ mixer never clips.

Thank the bar owner who made the decision against all recommendations that a simple stereo two way cross-over was "good enough". As far as baby sitting a rig that's not mine, I don't much care, he blew up his VZ3600 and called to rent our 5000. I just happened to stick around for a few beers and got treated to some pyrotechnics

Just go to your corner, and leave your false information out of this thread. Is that aggressive enough for you?

Square wave may have been an over simplification (it's almost as if I should have somehow referenced that is was a simplified explaination ), a symmetrically clipped signal will cause the RMS (average) power delivered by the amplifier to the speaker to increase, therefore heat generated by the individual components is going to increase. The more you clip that signal the higher the average power delivered to the speakers, the more heat has to be dissipated by the components.

If you are smart enough to over spec the system for that particular job, you can usually depend on a good limiter (preferably per pass band) to keep that RMS voltage in a range that is safe for your system to operate. If you are one of the majority, and you decided to save a few bucks and spec out just enough or even not enough rig for the job, in this case it's not uncommon to push the system to the limit even with a perfectly devised gain structure and the margin for error becomes unsettlingly small. In bass heavy music, it's usually the subs that will go first, it just becomes a question of whether they fail thermally (voice coil over heating and either deforming so that it rubs against the rest of the motor assemble, or simply burning until it becomes an open circuit) or physically (voice coil leaving the magnetic gap and doesn't go back in, or basket separates from cone, im sure there are other ways it can happen these are just two that I've watched happen).

Did you know that the adhesive they use on speakers is flammable? I learned that while watching a DJ, we were running a VZ5000 into 4 JBL 2x18 subs in a 300 cap bar, so the rig was definitely not under spec'ed, he just kept driving the signal so hard that the subs couldn't dissipate the heat being generated. One of the drivers was recently reconed and the glue actually ignited a fire.

1.) square waves don't kill speakers. excess power kills speakers. a properly configured management system will prevent excess power.
2.) besides, moderate amounts of clipping do not lead to square waves anyway.
3.) nobody ITT claimed that DSP can un-do clipping. but things like expanders can mitigate the effects of it.


your aggressive tone is inappropriate. if you want to criticize what i wrote, please be specific and stay on-topic.


i suppose most people here--myself included--will agree that one should try to avoid clipping in the first place. unfortunately, clipping sometimes happens. even if a capable sound engineer is present in the venue. i've seen it happen even in good, established venues that care a lot about sound. today's technology can prevent that an amp clips. but i've yet to see the technology that makes 100% sure that a DJ mixer never clips.

Activating any filter on the DJM900NXS will put the levels to Red. Just want to point this out.