A disconnect I'm noticing in the culture
A disconnect I'm noticing in the culture Posted on: 30.12.2012 by Tatiana Verdeja I've been noticing something more and more with gear lately on places like these community
s:What I've noticed a lot is a circlejerk built around things like cheap all-in-one controllers (S2/S4/mixtrack) that are popular with newer/less established DJs who don't have much real world experience. There are definitely a lot of newer DJs, and bedroom DJs or DJs who aren't very established, skewing the general culture by talking a lot, but not knowing what they're talking about. This works because of the anonymity. Obviously if we were talking to these people in person we'd know not to take them seriously, because we could see how unestablished they are. There's not as much discussion about high-end gear as there should be in order to encourage it's use to the newbies. Anyone else noticed something similar? | |
| Tatiana Verdeja 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by dripstep
Like I've said, I've been here for 4-5 years, and had many accounts. Your account has been around for aaaaaalmost a year. Welcome to the community s by the way, Dripstep. also, I KEEP EXPLAINING THIS. Some of you are arguing about the wrong thing. Nobody's saying the problem is people ASKING for support, that is a GOOD thing. The problem is people GIVING support, who shouldn't be. I answer newbie questions all the time on this community , the issue is the kids who don't know what they're talking about who are ALSO answering questions. |
| Len Lukawski 30.12.2012 | Well I have LOADS of gear and I'm rubbish. I'd go as far as to say that the more I buy, the worse I get. |
| Benjamin Sieh 30.12.2012 | Well yes. The way i see it, there is a loose. The more money a person is spending on gear the more established and skilled we expect the DJ to be. Key word there is EXPECT |
| Audrey Pinda 30.12.2012 | I've been on this community
for years now. And it's something that I love. I don't always post all the time, nor is it always useful. But I started out as a guy who was listening to music and wanted to take things to the next level. Through various means, found myself here. Now I actually am getting some (paid) gigs. Which I'm so proud about and love. But without DJTT? I wouldn't have gotten here. I research the shit out of things. While I ended up going with a Serato, 1200's, Rane TTM-56 setup... the information here and the help has been golden. Everyone NEEDS to make the final decisions for themselves. But as far as helping people learn? Why not? Why not encourage the fuck out of innovation and new ideas? If they suck, let them know it. If it doesn't? AWESOME. No need to worry about new people learning other than helping them get to the point of being awesome. I'd love to be blown away by every DJ I see. If this doesn't happen, then it gives me (and I hope others) more motivation to succeed. If people are willing to come here and ask for help? Well fuck, awesome. I'm no guru. I've grown up here just like a lot of other people. But what I want? Awesome music and people dedicated to bringing that to people at shows. If people are willing to ask for help, then damn, I'll do what I can. And I'll also ask questions myself, this is a hobby/profession than never stops evolving. |
| Yong Aptekar 30.12.2012 | Whisky, are you new to the internet? EVERY community
I have ever been on, whether surf, skate, dj, guitar, and on and on and on, there has always been one thing: new people with more stoke about something that they have just found than an entire board of people that found it years ago. This new stoke means that some of these people are going to regurgitate any information they have read/ heard. As a community
, a community, it is our job as older members (not you, welcome to the community
by the way), or educated members (you?) to help out these newbs who are making mistakes. If you don't want to help, don't join a community , or at the very least, ignore their posts. On the topic of gear: one of the main reasons that the S2, S4, launchpad etc etc gets recommended so much, is there are a lot of people here with that gear, and with that comes support for someone new who is having issues. Mellow out bro, you were new and ignorant about something at some point in your life and had to learn somehow. |
| Tatiana Verdeja 30.12.2012 | You guys are putting words in my mouth about CDJs..Read what I said. I don't believe I even used the word CDJ once... I'm not saying professionals use CDJs or anything like that at all. I'm saying that people should be building better, more informed setups. Some people would benefit from vinyl, from CDJs etc, some peopel wouldn't. Build the specifics however you like. I don't own CDJs myself and don't plan to. The point is that the shitty all-in-one platform is not the most conducive system for nearly as many people as own them, they just buy them because they're new and uninformed. It's not a necessary step at all. If they asked what to buy, and people who actually know what they're talking about answered more numerously than other newbies telling them to buy S2/S4's, they'd be able to get a set up they'd be happier with, probably for the same price. If you want to, you can build yourself a setup that is MUCH better tailored to what you want, for WAY cheaper than buying a shitty all-in-one controller and a midi fighter to spam trigger effects on... When you buy a shitty setup like that, because people told you they're great, you naturally adapt to the limits of the controller, instead of finding fault in it... Which you should never have to do. I can attest to this, I bought an S4 when they first came out and thought I loved it, and then eventually realized I was adapting the way I wanted to play based around it's limitations. Fullenglishpint etc: My two or three last posts explain why it is important for the culture to be educated... Because it influences the meta-scene. For example, it's just like why we should be talking about progressive things like alternative fuels etc. to make them more mainstream concepts. There isn't a problem with newbies ASKING questions, the problem is newbies ANSWERING questions, and speaking as if they knew what they were talking about. I just explained the tangible repercussions of this, with the S2/S4/F1's locked-down system that doesn't serve the customer as well as it would if the community was more vocal about not letting them get away with it. |
| Len Lukawski 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by photojojo
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| Valeri Millstein 31.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
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| Rolanda Clodfelder 30.12.2012 |
Seeing a gravitation towards high quality standalone gear, or even reasonable solid controllers, and carving out a professional standard would be a great thing.
No Doubt pioneer have built this device already and its in the works to be released in around 2020 after the failure of the CDJ4000 nexus with optical cue tracking that never worked properly when operated by DJ's who have lazy eye from too much JD |
| Leeanna Ayla 30.12.2012 | I'm old enough and level headed enough to not care what people believe about how or why I do something. I also have the seemingly rare ability to ignore the things I don't like rather than stress over them. |
| Nancey Inderlied 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Saying "controllers are part of the future" is rather pointless, because the laptop involved will always be a serious break point in a setup. Seeing a gravitation towards high quality standalone gear, or even reasonable solid controllers, and carving out a professional standard would be a great thing. Meanwhile, "Just get an S4!" the cycle continues, gear with a shelf life continues being profitably popular, and hence this thread. It's also very depressing to note that 3 massive landmarks in DJ technology: Tank beginner controller, viable standalone system, and theoretically bullet-proof controller, have all been made by... Pioneer... Ugh. |
| Tatum Ansaldo 30.12.2012 | Returning to the initial topic of newbies being too vocal, asking too many questions and believeing they're awesome, this is my view. There are always going to be newbies who should have read the manual more thoroughly before posting. There are also always going to be guys who believe they know everything after playing with their friend's S2 for an hour. As more senior community members with more experience, we could be dickish and just reply to everything with an RTFM, and as a mod I could simply delete all the stupid newbie questions. But that is totally against the ethos of this community . If people had answered my questions like that when I joined I doubt I would have stayed, and even though the membership of DJTT has more than quadrupled since I joined (I'm member #20000) I like the fact that people are still mostly friendly, unlike a lot of other community s out there. You don't have to answer simple questions, no one's forcing you to. Fortunately there are other people on the community who are more helpful. Personally if we're going to lose members somewhere, I'd prefer we alienated unhelpful and unfriendly people rather than discouraging new guys with put downs and disparaging remarks. And whiskeyflip, you say one of the problems is anonymity, but you go on to state that you "have written thousands of posts over many accounts". Would you care to mention what your former usernames were? You seem to be throwing quite a lot of stones from a rather fragile looking glass house. |
| Hipolito Scionti 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by vanaema78
It's like, what is the OP expecting to happen? Why do we have a collective responsibility to promote CDJs? That's what's in clubs now but it used to be 1210s and everyone said "let's fight to keep vinyl alive, don't use CDJs". If you came from vinyl you've seen this all before. The future will be what it will be, regardless if we say to every newbie "use CDJs". The future will shape itself and it's obvious controllers are part of that future which is why Pioneer are making controllers too, for every level (Ergo, Aero, DDJSX) The truth is CDJs ARE controllers anyway. They control digital files |
| Edwina Fagel 30.12.2012 | Another one of these CDJ vs Controller threads. Just great. |
| Nancey Inderlied 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by Solitaire
You may be paying "an absurd amount," or whatever the euphemism of the evening for CDJ prices are, but the fact remains that you will without a doubt get at least 5+ years out of your investment, if you don't decide to sell it for most of what you paid for it. With the Kontrol series, you'll get bargain bin components that fall apart in your hands over the course of a year or two of outboard use. So realistically, if you plan on DJing for any extended period of time, you're literally wasting your time and money by buying an S4 over CDJs. Your Kontroller will wear out and break, and you will have to replace it with another. CDJs very rarely "break," almost never beyond simple repair, and virtually never wear out. Kontrollers get broken and scrapped, CDJs get retired for updated gear. |
| Rolanda Clodfelder 30.12.2012 |
You don't need to own cdj's to know how to use them. Your statement suggests that you can't beatmatch on cdj's unless you own them.
It's not even like learning your way around a cdj is difficult. You have a play button, a cue button and two buttons to skip through tracks. How much time does one require to become accustomed to those simple controls. And for the record, no I don't own Pio's - I probably would buy an Aero for the Rekordbox feature perhaps, I could simply not justify the size or price of a CDJ setup for home.
Learning how to use industry standard gear which you may need to in the event that:
Laptop/Controller Breaks or Malfuctions Arrive at a venue where there is no room / no easy method of setting up. Shit happens and you'll still be expected to play, and play well on whats provided at the venue - so get comfy. |
| Kristofer Krauel 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by deevey
It's not even like learning your way around a cdj is difficult. You have a play button, a cue button and two buttons to skip through tracks. How much time does one require to become accustomed to those simple controls. As for preparation - first of all a dj who takes a gig without knowing what gear is available or even what space is available for their own gear , is just plain unprofessional and doesnt deserve the gig in the first place. Its this mind of sloppy preparation that gives djs a bad name. |
| Rolanda Clodfelder 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by Solitaire
Take Graphic artists, they use photoshop because its an industry standard even if Gimp can do some tasks better and its free. A company wont hire you if you don't know the standards why should a club. IMHO of course - I'm aware things are changing in favor of Controllers being more widely accepted but thing are not quite there yet. @ Gallorance I'm not going to quote you but the fact remains, businesses exist to make money in whatever they produce. If more F1's can be sold and the hardware lock sabotages sales of a competitors product then thats the route they will take. Sure businesses need to serve a purpose, and NI do that pretty well IMHO. Also If people want something different though there is not really that much choice right now that I'm aware of that can provide the same amount of features at that price or that hardware setup - correct me if I'm wrong? The issues with the hardware lockout will ONLY apply to the people who utilize their software in a way other than designed anyhow - which was to utilize the RGB color pads via HID on their particular controller As regards the shareholders thing, a company has a responsibility to its shareholders to make profit which was my point, if they aren't seen to make profits as you say a new board could be voted in so they will do their damnest to try to keep the majority of customers happy while locking down as much as possible so users will not even investigate competitors controllers as an option. I can respect a decision to lock down stuff based on the needs of the many to make it simpler vs the needs of the few who want to dabble - and given that its a pretty cheap controller for the features and software that are included. And no I don't have any shares. Out |
| Ok Moroski 30.12.2012 | At least as far as the S4 and the software being locked to that hardware to begin with; I looked at that much more as a public beta test than as NI seeing what they could get away with. Given what I've read about the remix decks, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're going to be the same. Have patience, friends. |
| Pasty Vancor 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by deevey
I'm not being naive, a free market system is very complex with many factors to it and to claim that every business is not in service for the consumer is a claim that lacks any real data. But what is fact is that the company serves the consumer weather its through products or service. This is not conspiracy! This is one of the main rules that form an economy. Shareholders dont drive profits for the company, consumers do! Let me give a lesson in economics. Shareholders have very limited power in a company, they vote for a board of directors who make the business decisions. The shareholders are paid dividends on what the company make's in profit because they own part of the company through funding from purchasing stocks. If the consumer disagrees with business practices they have the power to stop purchasing the product which entails lower profits. If the shareholders believe the company is not doing good business they can either vote for a new board of directors or sell their stocks. Ultimately shareholders have no bearing on what a company does for business they only put their funding in the company. Im not trying to put you down but I don't see any market data to back up you're claim unless you are an employee for one of the companies mentioned, and if you really are can you show financial records to prove you're point? You're claim according to education of how an economy works is completely false a successful business exists to serve consumers those are the principles of a free market system which is the confines of what these companies reside in. No consumer = No profits |
| Kristofer Krauel 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by Solitaire
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| Jona Slon 30.12.2012 | Some people (like myself) don't buy dj gear because why would i need it? I Dj in a club that has cdj2000s i only take my headphones and usbs to gigs if i had gear it'd be sitting there collecting dust. |
| Louanne Andrix 30.12.2012 | So what is actually wrong with my buying a S4 and playing out with it? What am I missing by not using CDJ's? |
| Rolanda Clodfelder 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
I'm sure their feeling on this is that if the remix decks are truly that awesome and are a feature of Traktor Alone that people will buy the supported hardware to unleash the true potential without sacrificing supporting multiple protocols whatever way they see fit e.g. RGB/HID etc. Serato Do the same thing y'know slot so NI's business model is not a new thing. |
| Tatiana Verdeja 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by Gallorance
Exactly. This kind of thing is why I am critical. The dumbasses will bitch and bitch and bitch about me being "negative", but I'm trying my best to prevent shit like the remix deck fiasco. We need to yell and scream about how bullshit it is, we need to educate everyone about it so they can yell and scream too. That's how you keep companies honest, and serving their customers like they should. This is why it's not really a "well it doesn't affect you, so just let them do whatever they want" thing... because it affects all of us. We need to do our best to speak progressively about gear and techniques, to influence the meta-scene in to be progressive. If we just sit around circlejerking about how great NI's is, they're going to fuck us harder and harder, because we're encouraging them. Every time some newbie who doesn't know anything about gear says that the S4 is "well-built", or the F1 is a "great controller", he's negatively influencing the DJ scene in an actually tangible way. |
| Geri Jarra 30.12.2012 | madbro.jpeg |
| Pasty Vancor 30.12.2012 | @whiskeyflip Oh yes! I understand this aspect as well! Recently I have purchased a small 16 button Midi pad. I was hoping on using it to control the remix decks on Traktor but I found I could only bind 4 samples and loops! I spent $100 USD on the thing, I thought I was doing something wrong so I did some research. And turns out I found out that if I wanted to use the remix decks to the fullest extent I have to get an F1. Upset, I sent the generic Midi back for a refund and spent $150 USD more on getting the F1. I cant believe NI would alienate there customers like that! Instead of "sure use any midi controller you're comfortable with, we don't care!" their all like : "Oh you want to use a part of our software? Well buy our stuff because you have no other choice!" What kind of business is that? A business should serve its consumers not the consumers serve the business but hey at least we have alternatives right? We don't have to buy there stuff anyway and they may change if we go somewhere else. But to them its just another way to make money so I wont waste my breathe on it. |
| Yevette Matatall 30.12.2012 | Ive been a member here since 2009, I was a member here before I even had a laptop or any gear... My point being that I was as green as they come. 4 years This community
was full of great content, now, not so much. I use to spend hours here, now its just to flick over a few topics and get the fuck out again. For all the newbs that are a little too quick to shoot their mouth off, ill give you a little advice I have learnt. Its better to hold your tongue, exercise a little diligence, intellect and patience, in the end this will serve you much better. The place where I play took me 4 years to get a spot and it was worth the wait and the patience, waiting soaking up all that i saw and heard, I eventually got my shot because the resident dj's saw that i had the respect and patience. Im the only Western Dj that plays there, now i get every other drunk/high western guy who has opened traktor or has a friend who has Traktor coming and telling me they are a DJ as well and can they play here..... seriously??? Indonesians know better than to ask, because they have a better sense of humility and for them to ask would be embarrassing in itself.... a little bit of humility goes a long way. remember, there's no such thing as a silly question but there are ridiculously stupid opinions.... I got to this point in my life by asking a lot of silly questions, its about what you take away and knowing what you have to give back. I still dont give any input to guys asking techi questions here, why? because compared to some other guys here I know next to nothing, im 4 years in and still full of questions, some silly ones too. |
| Tatiana Verdeja 30.12.2012 | @ Gallorance Also well put... If you're this wise after two months, I've very impressed. Only thing I don't believe you're seeing is the meta-level scene. It is really important for us to discuss gear. The way we talk about gear influences what gear is created, which gear other people buy, etc. and that really does influence the way people play. For instance, everyone circlejerking over the S2/S4: With those controllers, NI tested out an absolutely atrocious exploitative business model of intentionally locking down their gear and giving it exclusive access to features, so they could overprice and under-engineer them to increase profits. The result is a product of incredibly low build-quality, that you cannot custom map, as a side effect of their exploitative locked-down system. But we let them get away with it by not being critical enough of it. So what happened? They continued this with the F1, and built an entire update so they could sell a new controller, and intentionally prevented these features from being available on any controller except their new one, which they were again able to overprice and under-engineer. Had the community been outraged at the locking down of the S2/S4, and their terrible build quality-to-price ratio, NI would have had to abandon this exploitative idea and go back to serving their customers better. Now they've done it again with th F1, and we've again encouraged them, so they'll do it again with the next controller. To a slight extent they even did it to the new Z2, and would have done it much more if it had made sense to, given the nature of the product. It also matters in other ways. Because the S2/S4 has sold so many units because of newbies peddling them to newbies, the design of the S2/S4 is becoming more standard, and is influencing the way people spin on the meta-level. Imagine if, for instance, the midi fighter 3D were as popular as the S2/S4. That would influence the meta-scene to incorporate things like cue point juggling and trigger effects more. Talking about these things matters. |
| Tatiana Verdeja 30.12.2012 | @ keeb. that is absolutely true, and a good way of looking at it. Well put. Except the defense on newbies not beatmatching because of small jogwheels... thaaaaaat's pretty flimsy... That's definitely not the *reason* newbies skip over beatmatching. But also, I'm not really specifically talking about the quality, I'm just talking about the kinds of gear that newbies talk about, I mean that their gear choices come from an inexperienced viewpoint and the suggest them to people as if they knew what they were talking about. For a year or so, every newbie was telling every other newbie to get a mixtrack, and it wasn't so bad, because they were genuinely not that bad compared to what else was on the market... But now, most of us who are knowledgeable about this kind of stuff are really improving our setups, and using gear that we've chosen for our specific workflow. Lots are going in the direction of customizable and adaptable modular systems or more specialty controllers, building our setups to make ACTUALLY playing gigs better (easier to set up, higher build quality, more expressive etc.) Meanwhile every idiot who started playing in the last two years is there saying "you could just get an S4, they're really solid controllers", and the other newbies end up listening to them, and perpetuating this cycle of shitty DJing on Shitty DJ gear. |
| Yevette Matatall 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
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| Pasty Vancor 30.12.2012 | Well since I'm green as grass and a bedroom DJ for 2 months either my voice is drowned out or I meet the criteria. Do I have CDJ's? No only because I cant afford them but I plan on purchasing a pair in the future. Do I play vinyl? No but I have a ton of respect for anyone who has experience there. I have a Kontrol S2 because its affordable but through out the month of December I have discovered things about mixing that I would have not imagined doing before just by mixing for fun everyday for hours on end. I can understand why a lot of people at my level believe highly of themselves and proclaim there word as true for several week experience. Maybe we are all guilty of it? Don't we all have dreams of doing something we love and being successful at it? But yes noobs will come on and barrage the community s with questions because there to lazy to do their home work, that instead of sitting down in front of their gear and learn from experience they want it fed to them. So they can fast track themselves to their dream. But once a legitimate challenge comes up they either jump in and swim, or pack their stuff up and leave. If you look at me I only go on the community s to read on peoples experiences mainly because I love to hear stories and everyone has a good story to tell. I believe the only question I asked was more of a music genre based question on the community s. When it comes to the controller I learn by playing, and listening. Recently I learned that some electrohouse songs have certain parts where the key changes and in order to mix these songs I should follow my ears instead of looking at what the key is. But I still expect to learn many things even 2 years from now. So if people are seeing a disconnect lets look at it this way. I got my S2 before the holidays. After the holidays I have noticed that the number of people asking questions about the S2 and Traktor pro 2 has sky rocketed. DJ's have been pushed to the mainstream by media so there is plenty of people who are getting controllers because, "they want to be the next skrillex" ect. I am no victim to this either I started out mixing dubstep but I noticed that I felt restrained and there aren't many ways to mix it. So I moved on and found house, and I love house I never thought I would listen to more house then dubstep but to be honest I have not listened to dubstep for weeks. I find that house is so much more fun and rewarding to mix and has so many different ways to mix and make mash ups with. I believe in conclusion we all start somewhere but people come and leave. There are people who learn by themselves and dont ask many questions. And others who barrage people with questions or call them out as old, ignorant, and proclaim themselves as more intelligent. Now ask who will be around longer. The people who waste their times arguing about hardware, music choice, ect. Or the people who dont ask many questions because instead of wasting their time arguing on community s they are in front of their decks playing, learning, and having fun? |
| Ok Moroski 30.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
Additionally, I'm pretty sure there's a thread about the DB4 which is nearly always on the front page and has over 100 pages of posts... High-end gear, as mentioned, is expensive. Thus, controllers are going to be the starting point for the vast majority of DJs starting out nowadays. The only real issue with this is that most budget DJ controllers kind of suck to beatmatch on and thus many new DJs skip over that step (sure belt-drives are bad, but a tiny platter and a 3 inch low-resolution pitch fader isn't a whole lot better). I don't believe this issue you're describing is isolated to TechTools so much as society at large. The internet, social media, consumerism... all of society has become infatuated with instant gratification (and to be clear, I'm talking from a US perspective here). Read a user manual? Forget that; I can simply type up my question and have it answered with less effort on a community . This is why RTFM [Read The F***ing Manual] and lmgtfy [Let Me Google That For You] exist; people are lazy. Really the only hand I believe that DJTT has had in encouraging this has been to coddle the new users; there's been a shift over the past few years from the majority of responses being more along the lines of RTFM to "well you should look that up, but let me be a nice guy and show you how." Even I've been guilty of it. It makes for a more helpful and inviting community which is part of what has helped the site grow, but it does leave the incorrigibly lazy unchecked. Aside from that, on the internet - everyone is an expert. Unfortunately, even if you screen by qualifications like, "I've been a sound engineer for 10 years," you still run into the issues of stupidity, bias, or ignorance. If it bothers you, ask questions about the answers you're given instead of accepting them at face value to make sure that you're getting information from an actually knowledgeable source instead of just a well-spoken (or forcefully-spoken) individual. Oh, and I'm not here to argue; that's just my take on it. |
| Tatiana Verdeja 30.12.2012 | you're doing that thing people do when they get insecure, where they try to make it seem like everyone is on their side even, though nobody has said a word.... Chill out champ, my point is about gear. Kids who don't know what they're doing are talking as if the do, and giving each other bad advice. The community would benefit if the people who knew what they were talking about spoke more, and the people who don't spoke less. That's what I'm saying, you just got me off on a tangent because you're trying to defend the WAY these new DJs are trying to spin, and called it the wrong name, as I explained. My main point is that in large part, the newbies should listen more and talk less, because the majority of them have no idea what they're talking about.... and OTHER newbies can't tell the difference yet, and often end up listening to their uninformed opinions. |
| Valeri Millstein 30.12.2012 | Im 15 years only and all I try to do is have fun and share my love of music with others. If that is through my French Horn, Guitar or S4 it makes me happy. Don't tell people, "this is another thing newbies need to learn." This is a community
so people can be creative and find information, its not a place for you to be didactic. I understand people can be idiotic but so what if they are happy, let them be happy. Don't take away their safe haven for their imaginations and dreams by getting on a community
where they thrive. I hope this thread gets closed because it is discouraging to me and fellow DJTT users. Sorry Mods, this guy just crashed my party... Its cool though, I will leave him to his ideas. |
| Valeri Millstein 30.12.2012 | Absolutely controllerism isn't about 7 minute YouTube videos, Its about being creative as an electronic musician while making yourself and a dance floor happy. There isn't a set way to DJ, and if people can use Turntables or 16 arcade buttons to do it who gives a shit? Have respect for differences, maybe those young DJs will grow up and realize what they are doing is just hitting the siren on Virtual DJ but seriously, why would you waste your time judging them? Bad DJs wont ever get anywhere. Your on the thread for a website that sells this gear you speak of, the thread that people use to learn and grow. Get over it or leave. Leave your negativity somewhere else, NO ONE wants it. |
| Tatiana Verdeja 29.12.2012 | No no. See, this is another thing newbies need to learn. I made the same mistake until I learned how to DJ well. The problem is that it's NOT "controllerism", it's controller DJing. Just like most of the time, vinyl DJs aren't "doing turntablism", they're just vinyl DJing. Controllerism is it's own separate thing, and like I've been saying, nobody has ever gotten success in doing it in full sets (again, i dare you to claim Ean Golden). Controllerism, like turntablism, doesn't make sense to do for a full DJ set, unless maybe you're headlining some massive event and everyone is there to see you do specifically that. Problem is that all of these newbies have this image in their head of crazy performance stuff like they see in youtube videos, and they try their best to apply that to an actual DJ set, and believe that's their style and it should be respected just as much as anyone else's. I swear every single newbie controller DJ believes that they're the first person to ever believe "I combine performance techniques with traditional DJ set"... When in actuality they are just awkwardly spamming effects and cue points over tracks that they're playing unmixed, between 32 beat transitions, and calling that controllerism. I did this for the first year I DJed in my bedroom, and then i started getting gigs and learned that I was being and sounding like an idiot. Now I book battle-style controllerism performance routines, and I book hour long DJ sets where I mix and cut. They are separate things. |
| Valeri Millstein 29.12.2012 | The majority of community posts are newbies seeking help; most newbies aren't rocking CDJ2000s. Those are more commonly not brand new djs. Nothing is wrong with an all in one controller, especially for beginners. They are not skewing your culture but creating a new technologically savvy one that goes by Controllerism. They are just not the same thing. Yes the new DJs can defiantly be a-holes and entitled but that is the general young person now-a-days. As a young DJ I leaned to controllerism because as a Jazz Guitar player I wanted to use a controller as an instrument, most pro gear is overrated for what I want to do. |
| Kellie Myrum 29.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by vanaema78
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| Edwina Fagel 29.12.2012 |
Originally Posted by Stewe
My post was really on the side of the controllers and I was just trying to criticize his views on using the controllers and software. Thouse same easy to reach controllers and mappings that you help to create (respect) are the starting point for innovations. The fact that some DJs abuse the abilities given to them by the software imo isn't really a problem on this board, altrough it might be in the scene and I get your point |
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