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Serato dj. Worse than vdj?

Home :: General Discussion :: Serato dj. Worse than vdj?Reply

Serato dj. Worse than vdj? Posted on: 31.03.2013 by Dannie Dimora Good day I hope this isn't gonna be a tl;dr post :P I have been djing for about a year now, using a friend's (here comes the hate) hercules dj mp3 e2 and virtual dj. I started out in my bedroom, and only in the past month and a half me and a friend (we're a duo) have gotten quite a lot of attention locally And the money i got at gigs, i saved up to buy a serious controller and give back the already pretty beaten up hercules to my friend. I went with the pio ddj-sx. I mainly chose it because i needed something big and sturdy, and i just was too fed up with small jogs (of the hercules) to buy the kontrol s4. I loved the controller at first sight. It was just the thing i needed. When i installed the software, however, my feelings changed drastically. Serato DJ disappointed me a lot. Beat detection sucks, waveforms (even tho they're colored) are harder to visually beatmatch when compared to VDJ, auto gain doesn't work and i have to keep my SX at redline volumes to cope with the volume changes, waveforms are sluggish and stuttery on my quadcore i7 laptop (CLEAN windows with nothing on but chrome and serato), and i get occasional audio stuttering and audio dropouts, along with sluggishness in both the computer and controller. I performed a clean install of windows on a new disk, with the purpose of having it run perfectly, with no bloatware at all, optimizing windows for audio processing, and this is what i get? Now for some aspects of the software that really surprised me (in a negative way) -There's only a couple of good effects imo. Why put hp, lp, and combo hp/lp filters in the software fx section when most controllers have an integrated filter in the mixer section? -The slicer is quantised to 1/8, ok, but why can't you turn quantisation off in the settings? Or even just set it to 16ths or 32ths.. Like this i find it useless... and sometimes it gets stuck in an 8bar loop with no apparent reason. -The sampler. It seems to me like it's made to just drop goddamn air horns and "pump it ups", instead of actually getting creative with it Now yes, there are some gains when using serato. Of course the slicer isn't even present in vdj, and the sampler is just as bad. But when compared to traktor ( a software that i've used at a couple of gigs with the s4, and i really really liked), serato really seems lacking to me. I actually seem to do better mixes on the $60 hercules and vdj than on the $1000 ddj-sx and serato... To those of you who suggest using traktor with the SX, i tried, but the lag on the jogs is so bad i really can't work with it (call me spoiled, but it really bothers me... ) What should i do? Return the beast that the ddj-sx is and get an s4, letting go the beautiful jogs? Return the ddj and wait for the s4 mk2 and traktor pro 3? Or simply live with the constant feeling that i'm not "at home" with the software i'm using? Thank you and i'm very sorry if i sounded harsh, it's just that i'm quite confused right now.. Luka
Dannie Dimora 01.04.2013	Originally Posted by b1sh0p It's hard to take any post you write seriously because you seem like a salesman. My whole point was that the medium is bullshit. It doesn't matter. Make it sound good. Play good tunes. Make a set. I don't care what gear you're rocking. I don't care if you sync or not. Make it sound good. People always post this stuff about gear , and how it's holding them back. What's your end goal? The job of a dj is to present your taste in music in a way that people want to dance to. You're not a musician. You're a dj. There's a huge difference. Great post, you summed up my confusion in one paragraph. It just feels like the ddj is holding me back more than the hercules ever did... Maybe because working on a small controller gave me the challenge to actually believe about what i was doing, while with the ddj and serato everything is so straightforward, that i'm just like "oh yeah, now i gotta mix in another song, whatever" I don't now if you understand what i mean, sorry for my english
Dannie Dimora 01.04.2013	Originally Posted by manchild Just a personal opinion on what I believe you would like and best suits you: -Return the DDJ - SX -Pair of Tech 1200's ($600-700) -Rane 56 ($400-500) -Audio 8 (around $150) seem like the type of person that may want a 4 channel mixer in the future -Kontrol X1 ($200) -Traktor Scratch Pro ($119) That would be phenomenal... if i only used it in my bedroom :P You see, i live deep in the mountains. And here people believe of djs as jukeboxes to whom you can drunkenly dictate what song to put on in the next 5 seconds. And many clubs here don't really have a separate dj booth to play in, they just give you the most isolated spot in the club, set up a 20yo rotten wooden table for you, and tell you to do your thing. Therefore you constantly have drunk people bumping into your table, leaning over your gear with glasses full of booze, and things of the sort. So vinyl, while an amazing piece of gear to use, is extremely impractical in my situation Thanks anyways
Dannie Dimora 01.04.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Personally, and everyone's already expecting me to say this, but the Reloop Terminal Mix 4 beats the S4 hands down, even though it's a Serato-orientated controller. I personally use mine with Traktor and it's fantastic; best jogwheels of ANY controller (apart from moving platters like the NS7/Denons) on the market. The Jockey 3 Remix is also insane, provided you can cope with it being a 2+2 instead of a full 4 deck controller. Do you work for reloop? :P
Dannie Dimora 01.04.2013	Originally Posted by city_boy07 Use w.e controller you feel comfortable with! Keep the software just as transport and minimal fx, by the sounds of it if u and ur mate are gettin a lot of attention really quickly you'll soon be wanting a 'club standard setup' with CDjs external mixer nd a small controller ie X1 anyway... Just. Make sure our not relying on waveforms the beatmatch Thank you no, don't worry, i did that with vdj since in the beginning i had no cue out, i now much prefer mixing with headphones the stuttering waveforms bother me a lot tho..
Shawn Vanhaitsma 01.04.2013	Originally Posted by b1sh0p It's hard to take any post you write seriously because you seem like a salesman. My whole point was that the medium is bullshit. It doesn't matter. Make it sound good. Play good tunes. Make a set. I don't care what gear you're rocking. I don't care if you sync or not. Make it sound good. People always post this stuff about gear , and how it's holding them back. What's your end goal? The job of a dj is to present your taste in music in a way that people want to dance to. You're not a musician. You're a dj. There's a huge difference. Depends on the type of "DJ" you are. I get labeled as "DJ" but I dont A B mix.. or do any funny beat juggly mumbojumbo.. I perform music in forms of live synths, clips, drum patterns, and use Traktor when I want to bring in an already produced track. DJ in this day and age is a broad term. Its also over used and over abused.
Julissa Serrone 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by b1sh0p People always post this stuff about gear , and how it's holding them back. What's your end goal? . Great post man....on all accounts.
Sonja Roybal 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Personally, and everyone's already expecting me to say this, but the Reloop Terminal Mix 4 beats the S4 hands down, even though it's a Serato-orientated controller. I personally use mine with Traktor and it's fantastic; best jogwheels of ANY controller (apart from moving platters like the NS7/Denons) on the market. The Jockey 3 Remix is also insane, provided you can cope with it being a 2+2 instead of a full 4 deck controller. It's hard to take any post you write seriously because you seem like a salesman. My whole point was that the medium is bullshit. It doesn't matter. Make it sound good. Play good tunes. Make a set. I don't care what gear you're rocking. I don't care if you sync or not. Make it sound good. People always post this stuff about gear , and how it's holding them back. What's your end goal? The job of a dj is to present your taste in music in a way that people want to dance to. You're not a musician. You're a dj. There's a huge difference.
Addie Engbrecht 31.03.2013	Just a personal opinion on what I believe you would like and best suits you: -Return the DDJ - SX -Pair of Tech 1200's ($600-700) -Rane 56 ($400-500) -Audio 8 (around $150) seem like the type of person that may want a 4 channel mixer in the future -Kontrol X1 ($200) -Traktor Scratch Pro ($119)
Doreen Schurle 31.03.2013	Personally, and everyone's already expecting me to say this, but the Reloop Terminal Mix 4 beats the S4 hands down, even though it's a Serato-orientated controller. I personally use mine with Traktor and it's fantastic; best jogwheels of ANY controller (apart from moving platters like the NS7/Denons) on the market. The Jockey 3 Remix is also insane, provided you can cope with it being a 2+2 instead of a full 4 deck controller.
Hayden Raugh 31.03.2013	Use w.e controller you feel comfortable with! Keep the software just as transport and minimal fx, by the sounds of it if u and ur mate are gettin a lot of attention really quickly you'll soon be wanting a 'club standard setup' with CDjs external mixer nd a small controller ie X1 anyway... Just. Make sure our not relying on waveforms the beatmatch
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by haze324 Ok since we're talking jogs and comparing I've either used or owned, NS7, VCI-300, VCI-100, S4, DDJ-S1, NS6, CDJ-400 in HID, CD timecode, Turntables (i'm sure Im missing one somewhere). Best: 1200's; NS7, CDJ HID in SSL, then VCI-300 (this one is actually really really good). S4 was ok, the push to activate was a little awkward, but great placement of the crossfader....and compared to the NS7 the NS6 platters just don't feel right. As far as Traktor being feature rich and more effects. I don't ever remember using but a handful of effects and even now, I'd rather use hardware effects. My suggestion to you is don't pick something because of what it has or does, pick something for what YOU need and like to do. Also remember SDJ just came out, Serato is still pushing out compatability to the remaining Itch controllers. I would expect soon after it will get more feature rich. There's lots of speculation (and Serato mods have mentioned) that the plan is to bring the user experience when using SDJ and SSL closer together. Yeah i agree with your classification, except for the ns6. Maybe because i started with a controller, but i don't really like the small spinning platters of the ns6 (tried it) as true vinyl I know it's still early in its stage. I initially hoped for the wet dream that is bridge to come true, but now it's almost sure they won't do any progress with that.. It's the overall feeling of the program.. so... empty? Traktor on the other hand feels very feature packed and capable, and it gives me the reassuring feeling of being able to spice up , get creative and do new stuff to my mixes.
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by Sambo Map the SX to VJD if you prefe pr that program. The SX has plenty enough buttons! I just wanted to try something new, be it serato or traktor I'm also interested in deckadance 2.0, it seems promising
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by b1sh0p People seem to believe its all about the gear and not the final product. Make it sound good. That's all that matters. I don't care what you play on, make it sound good. I was once given some advice about production: stop buying gear and learn how to actually use what you have. That seems to be what i learned switching from the hercules to the sx. But does this mean have to play on plastic controllers with non-touch sensitive platters to be creative? I already mastered everything the little controller could give me, mapped it to my liking, used it till the end, so i thought a new controller could give me another challenge to learn more stuff...
Jetta Drenzek 31.03.2013	Map the SX to VJD if you prefe pr that program. The SX has plenty enough buttons!
Julissa Serrone 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon yeah, i'm pretty confused... and no, you're not being a smartass someone with more experience than you is always welcome The s4 would fix some of that in the form of remix decks, live loop recording&playing, and more effects (for example, gater+echo+highpass), but it would provide me with the issue of clutter on the surface (buttons and knobs too close together), and the jogs/xfader would be worse, since i do scratch (practised a lot on a pair of turntables and a couple of records i borrowed from another friend). The thing is that (at least on paper) traktor has so many more features than sdj... Ok since we're talking jogs and comparing I've either used or owned, NS7, VCI-300, VCI-100, S4, DDJ-S1, NS6, CDJ-400 in HID, CD timecode, Turntables (i'm sure Im missing one somewhere). Best: 1200's; NS7, CDJ HID in SSL, then VCI-300 (this one is actually really really good). S4 was ok, the push to activate was a little awkward, but great placement of the crossfader....and compared to the NS7 the NS6 platters just don't feel right. As far as Traktor being feature rich and more effects. I don't ever remember using but a handful of effects and even now, I'd rather use hardware effects. My suggestion to you is don't pick something because of what it has or does, pick something for what YOU need and like to do. Also remember SDJ just came out, Serato is still pushing out compatability to the remaining Itch controllers. I would expect soon after it will get more feature rich. There's lots of speculation (and Serato mods have mentioned) that the plan is to bring the user experience when using SDJ and SSL closer together.
Sonja Roybal 31.03.2013	People seem to believe its all about the gear and not the final product. Make it sound good. That's all that matters. I don't care what you play on, make it sound good. I was once given some advice about production: stop buying gear and learn how to actually use what you have.
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 Did you keep an eye on the latency settings when testing out different jogs? Sure i always set the minimal latency possible without dropouts, and it was never more than 6ms. The latency i was noticing was more in the 20ms range.. (saying this by ear, i know how 20ms sounds like since it's the latency i have when i play a virtual instrument in my daw)
Alphonso Deitchman 31.03.2013	Did you keep an eye on the latency settings when testing out different jogs? Edit: Turntables are always an option if you're keen on jogs, and are much cheaper than CDJs.
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	no, just personal feeling the hid mode on cdj's is as tight as the s4/s2 etc, that would be the perfect setup, but it ain't cheap...
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 Have you tried the jogs on the 4Trak yet? Yes i have and they are cool for using as jogwheels, that is to speed up/slow down the track momentarily, but when scratching there's always that split second they take to react to a spin, and i really really hate that.
Alphonso Deitchman 31.03.2013	Is there a specific test you use to measure jog wheel tightness? I have my CDJs connected through HID and they seem pretty tight, but I only have standard MIDI atm to compare with.
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	oh yeah, and the timestretching algorythm is also a lot better in traktor, and i do use extreme pitchbending to get creative in transitions
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 The Numark 4Trak is supposed to have excellent jog performance in Traktor, and its physical jog wheels are much nicer than those on the S2/S4. i tried it, and it's not nearly as tight as an s4 connected to traktor thru the NHL protocol... and yeah, its jogs are phenomenal (better than sx), but the 4trak is basically a repurposed, reskinned ns6, so it's not really 1:1 mapped to traktor
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by O.D. Return it and get the S4. The jog wheels are just fine, there's people that even scratch with them. Just because they're small doesn't mean they're like the Hercules jogs. And if your relying on wave forms to visually beat match, you might as well be using sync. The remix decks in Traktor sounds like something you'd use as well as maybe the loop recorder, and the effects are way better than Serato's or Virtual DJ. i tried the s4, and everything's just so tightly packed... it's not just the jogs. I don't use waveform beatmatching, i used it in the beginning since the hercules doesn't have cue out, i use a lot of stereo separated tracks, so split mono isn't gonna cut it (summing doesn't work, too, since it distorts the sound). This was until i discovered thet you could plug two sound cards to one computer. I use waveforms to see what's going and what will be going on in the song. And that microstuttering is just plain painful to look at. Sync to me takes out the fun of mixing and yeah, remix decks and loop recording are the main things that i miss in serato
Alphonso Deitchman 31.03.2013	Have you tried the jogs on the 4Trak yet?
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by Sam Hulley If you arent comfortable with it, then return it. Or suck it up and grow to love it. They are your 2 options I can see. (Personally I would return it as $1000 is alot of money) and maybe get a cheaper Traktor controller in the mean time thing is, i really am in LOVE with the sx hardware, the velocity sensitive pads, the faders... everything. so it would be hard to let go for the plasticfantastic s4...
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by haze324 You sound confused over gear, and with that thought you will always find things you don't like in a controller. None is perfect. What is it that you are trying to do with your controller and SDJ that you can't do? Would the S4 fix that, all of that, provide you with another issue? Not being a smart ass with you, but I went thru so much gear...never happy always finding flaws that this piece of crap couldn't do this or that, etc. and in the end I am most happy playing on two turntables a mixer and Serato. No Frills....just fun times. I have an NS6 and use it with SDJ. It's not a bad software.....I had an S4 and after using Serato could never go back to using Traktor. yeah, i'm pretty confused... and no, you're not being a smartass someone with more experience than you is always welcome The s4 would fix some of that in the form of remix decks, live loop recording&playing, and more effects (for example, gater+echo+highpass), but it would provide me with the issue of clutter on the surface (buttons and knobs too close together), and the jogs/xfader would be worse, since i do scratch (practised a lot on a pair of turntables and a couple of records i borrowed from another friend). The thing is that (at least on paper) traktor has so many more features than sdj...
Dannie Dimora 31.03.2013	Originally Posted by loverocket Hopefully Pioneer releases a DDJ-TX or NI gets their heads out of their ass and releases an S6 etc. Your predicament is why I still use the same Vestax VCM-100 I started with 4 years ago. > Even if pioneer released a ddj-tx, it still would comunicate with the software thru MIDI, which is the problem of all traktor controllers i tried except the s2/4/x1/f1 etc... I really hope NI makes a nice big-jogged 6channel controller ( 2+4remix or 4+2remix), with booth out and better faders...
Alphonso Deitchman 31.03.2013	The Numark 4Trak is supposed to have excellent jog performance in Traktor, and its physical jog wheels are much nicer than those on the S2/S4.
Beverlee Bedrin 31.03.2013	Return it and get the S4. The jog wheels are just fine, there's people that even scratch with them. Just because they're small doesn't mean they're like the Hercules jogs. And if your relying on wave forms to visually beat match, you might as well be using sync. The remix decks in Traktor sounds like something you'd use as well as maybe the loop recorder, and the effects are way better than Serato's or Virtual DJ.
Ethel Feigum 31.03.2013	Use your ddj-sx with VDJ. Map it how you want, download the effects you want.
Neil Daavettila 31.03.2013	If you arent comfortable with it, then return it. Or suck it up and grow to love it. They are your 2 options I can see. (Personally I would return it as $1000 is alot of money) and maybe get a cheaper Traktor controller in the mean time
Jerica Salava 31.03.2013	Hopefully Pioneer releases a DDJ-TX or NI gets their heads out of their ass and releases an S6 etc. Your predicament is why I still use the same Vestax VCM-100 I started with 4 years ago. >
Julissa Serrone 31.03.2013	You sound confused over gear, and with that thought you will always find things you don't like in a controller. None is perfect. What is it that you are trying to do with your controller and SDJ that you can't do? Would the S4 fix that, all of that, provide you with another issue? Not being a smart ass with you, but I went thru so much gear...never happy always finding flaws that this piece of crap couldn't do this or that, etc. and in the end I am most happy playing on two turntables a mixer and Serato. No Frills....just fun times. I have an NS6 and use it with SDJ. It's not a bad software.....I had an S4 and after using Serato could never go back to using Traktor.

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Serato dj. Worse than vdj?