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Gauging Interest in 4 Channel MIDI Mixer

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Gauging Interest in 4 Channel MIDI Mixer Posted on: 10.08.2013 by Doreen Schurle Howdy folks, so the time has come for me to hassle you all again about a potential new product that I'm hoping to bring to market alongside a big company This would be a pure 4 channel MIDI mixer; nothing fancy, styled after the Z1 (same height, same length, but twice as wide and constructed with a metal chassis). Up faders will be damped for smooth mixes, and the crossfader MAY be an Innofader Mini depending on how much it'd change the pricing by. 3 band EQ per channel, dedicated filter knob, and a gain knob. There'll also be kill switches for each EQ band, possibly as a separate button or - more likely - as a push-down on the knob with an indicator light. It'll have a basic 4-out/4-in audio interface built in which will let you hook up a microphone or two AUX inputs for live playback through decks C and D in Traktor, and unbalanced and balanced outputs. So, would there be interest in this product?
Doreen Schurle 10.08.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 Basically an S4 in 3 pieces then? Yep, but with far better build quality.
Alphonso Deitchman 10.08.2013	Basically an S4 in 3 pieces then?
Doreen Schurle 10.08.2013	Originally Posted by MRG12EG i knew you worked for reloop!!! Lmao I don't! I was just at the Reloop tour the other day and got talking to some of their guys gonna speak to them properly at BPM and show them mockups etc. I basically get nothing out of this, except for hopefully one of the finished units haha. But lets face it, who WOULDN'T want to have their perfect mixer/controller/etc made even if they got nothing in return? Incidentally, I also pitched a Mk2 Contour, so for those of you who were incredibly disappointed that they were discontinued, there could be a light at the end of the tunnel. Major differences would likely be the inclusion of a pitchfader, the removal of the 40mm faders in the EQ section (which most people felt were superfluous), an additional row of pads bringing the total up to 8, and an improved high resolution jogwheel (possibly with a mechanical tension control) That, plus the 4 channel MIDI mixer unit, would form the basis of a pretty badass modular setup imo.
Jeffrey Akinsanya 10.08.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Howdy folks, so the time has come for me to hassle you all again about a potential new product that I'm hoping to bring to market alongside a big company This would be a pure 4 channel MIDI mixer; nothing fancy, styled after the Z1 (same height, same length, but twice as wide and constructed with a metal chassis). Up faders will be damped for smooth mixes, and the crossfader MAY be an Innofader Mini depending on how much it'd change the pricing by. 3 band EQ per channel, dedicated filter knob, and a gain knob. There'll also be kill switches for each EQ band, possibly as a separate button or - more likely - as a push-down on the knob with an indicator light. It'll have a basic 4-out/4-in audio interface built in which will let you hook up a microphone or two AUX inputs for live playback through decks C and D in Traktor, and unbalanced and balanced outputs. So, would there be interest in this product? i knew you worked for reloop!!!
Sonja Roybal 10.08.2013	It's basically an MM-1 with a soundcard? It would have to be pretty cheap to compete I'd believe.
Kellie Myrum 10.08.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign I don't see why we couldn''t do that It's all just firmware anyway. It sounds like kill buttons aren't exactly a fan favourite, so I'll remove those. I'll do another mockup later; what's your opinion on LED feedback for the EQ knobs? Ie, a circular multi-segment display with an indicator light which tracks the knob's position in your software? Would give you better visibility in dark booths etc. LED rings are unnecessary imo since you're dealing with rotary pots anyways - place some Chroma Caps and you'll have a nice indication of your current pot value is even in darker circumstances. What you really need to add is SHIFT button
Doreen Schurle 10.08.2013	Originally Posted by Stewe I'd by it if those EQ's send two CC events from the center to the left and right. Other than that it looks like many other MIDI controller out there. I don't see why we couldn''t do that It's all just firmware anyway. It sounds like kill buttons aren't exactly a fan favourite, so I'll remove those. I'll do another mockup later; what's your opinion on LED feedback for the EQ knobs? Ie, a circular multi-segment display with an indicator light which tracks the knob's position in your software? Would give you better visibility in dark booths etc.
Alphonso Deitchman 10.08.2013	Originally Posted by Jester No need for EQ Kills if you have infinite kill eq's anyway, just need to be quicker on the twist. This. Abrupt changes like instant button kills sound awful in a mix.
Kellie Myrum 10.08.2013	I'd by it if those EQ's send two CC events from the center to the left and right. Other than that it looks like many other MIDI controller out there.
Evalyn Voges 10.08.2013	If it's a pure MIDI mixer, then why bother with any INs? I assume you have two stereo OUTs for the master OUT and CUE. You'd be better off having something like a USB hub to connect other controllers through it. Basically, what would the use-case be for the INs?
Latoria Kavulich 10.08.2013	No need for EQ Kills if you have infinite kill eq's anyway, just need to be quicker on the twist.
Elias Knapp 10.08.2013	I would only ever use a bass kill, but have found the hi-pass filter in traktor to be adequate for this effect anyway.
Arnulfo Morten 10.08.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Hmmmm anyone else not mad keen on EQ kills? Personally I've always missed them, although these days I could see more sense in a "reset" button next to the EQ/filter knobs to quickly reset them to 50%; Soft Takeover would then engage until you turned the knobs back to the centre position. Didn't get a chance to thoroughly read other peoples comments but read the first and saw the mock up. I'd remove the EQ kills no one uses them and it just becomes a problem when accidentally activated (seen some knarly knob twistin) put the headphone jack on the left most pro headphone cables come off the left. I'm guessing your making this for Traktor users? better have a Tsi created and made to auto install for ease of setup to get all the midi maps and leds to work don't expect customers to know how to map and do a bunch of steps and learn a bunch of new techniques that are specific to your mixer. Whats the target price your looking at? metal pots would be a plus. like i said i've seen some knarly knob twistin... even if you dont put an innofader in it to save cost, please make it so it will fit a innofader pnp not PRO it will be cheaper for the end user
Antonetta Wikel 09.08.2013	Make the eq's "programmable" as far as amount and you don't need kills.
Doreen Schurle 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by DJBife I like the design, just please man, don't use EQ button kills in any form. I mean, who uses them anyway? Not a single top of the line mixer has them for a reason lol. They are useless and mess up the EQ organization imo Hmmmm anyone else not mad keen on EQ kills? Personally I've always missed them, although these days I could see more sense in a "reset" button next to the EQ/filter knobs to quickly reset them to 50%; Soft Takeover would then engage until you turned the knobs back to the centre position.
Leon Albornoz 09.08.2013	I like the design, just please man, don't use EQ button kills in any form. I mean, who uses them anyway? Not a single top of the line mixer has them for a reason lol. They are useless and mess up the EQ organization imo
Doreen Schurle 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 So it inherits one of the issues from the S4 - the microphone consuming one of the inputs? Any DVS system will need a proper standalone mixer anyway so that you're not tied down to timecode and can put on the odd CD/vinyl now and then. Obviously it would need to be per channel; if you wanted it on Master you'd just route your master output through the FX device. I suppose the microphone COULD be routed separately and summed with ducking in firmware, but I'll have to see what the engineers say. I don't quite agree with your statement that DVS requires a standalone mixer though, as if you're using any software package you can use live input into the track decks and use the internal mixing with a MIDI control surface. Nothing to stop you putting on a real piece of vinyl, changing the deck to "Audio" instead of timecode and away you go. I believe if you start adding per-channel send/returns then you're getting into traditional mixer territory anyway, and would require - at least - an 8-out interface AND an analog mixer section. As I said, that's really NOT what this is about. It's basically a wider, more professional version of the MM-1, or a 4-channel version of the Z1/Z2, or a half-height, FX section-less/all-MIDI version of an 800. I'm not - for a second - expecting this to appeal to "traditional" DJs; but for controllerists, or people who integrate timecode with X1s, F1s, and Ableton/Maschine this could be the perfect solution. I could also imagine it doing quite well with mobile DJs who love the concept of the Z1 but want something more rugged.
Alphonso Deitchman 09.08.2013	So it inherits one of the issues from the S4 - the microphone consuming one of the inputs? Any DVS system will need a proper standalone mixer anyway so that you're not tied down to timecode and can put on the odd CD/vinyl now and then. Originally Posted by mdcdesign Do you mean on the master output or per-channel? Per-channel unfortunately wouldn't be possible, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to add it to the output stage Obviously it would need to be per channel; if you wanted it on Master you'd just route your master output through the FX device.
Doreen Schurle 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by 031999 oh please man...... please put a send and return on there!!!!! Do you mean on the master output or per-channel? Per-channel unfortunately wouldn't be possible, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to add it to the output stage
Doreen Schurle 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 If it's a 4-in 4-out card doesn't that mean it's just a typical external mixer? So basically you believe Reloop should have included an audio interface in the RMX 80? No it wouldn't be an external mixer at all; all of the controls are completely MIDI, with the exception of the CUE EQ knobs, which may not even be on the final unit as I'd like to avoid analog controls entirely. Basically, it'd be an ESI Maya44 and a pair of Z1s in a single unit. What you do with the sound card is up to you; you could either route a microphone through one of the inputs and maybe a CDJ into Traktor through Live Input, or you could use a TT timecode setup with Mixxx. From a technical standpoint, the closest equivalent would be the Hercules RMX; that also made use of a 4-in-4-out interface to allow DVS functionality, but obviously its mixer section was pretty substandard. Similarly though, this combines a MIDI mixer with an audio interface to offer a reasonably priced centrepiece to a DVS or MIDI setup. Oh, there'll also most likely be a 4-port USB hub on the back as well, so you can plug a pair of X1s and a pair of F1s, or a pair of PL-1s and a pair of DC-1s etc into the mixer, and then hook the entire setup up to your PC with a single USB cable.
Lannie Kutay 09.08.2013	oh please man...... please put a send and return on there!!!!!
Alphonso Deitchman 09.08.2013	If it's a 4-in 4-out card doesn't that mean it's just a typical external mixer? So basically you believe Reloop should have included an audio interface in the RMX 80?
Doreen Schurle 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by ProfessorStrangeman Sold. Where do I pre-order/kickstart? Haha :P Just keep this thread going and get those numbers on the poll up and this thing could make its debut at Musikmesse 2014 if we're lucky
Wilton Keuning 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Attachment 19354 This is a REALLY rough mockup, but you should be able to get a basic idea Sold. Where do I pre-order/kickstart?
Doreen Schurle 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by Jester lets see a mockup. This is a REALLY rough mockup, but you should be able to get a basic idea
Towanda Roads 09.08.2013	Hell Yea!!!! I''m all about that!! When can we start this?
Latoria Kavulich 09.08.2013	lets see a mockup.
Wilton Keuning 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Haha Well you could always disable the feature in the mapping (or even with a physical switch on the unit) if we didn't use push-knobs, what would you prefer? Physical kill switches or buttons? And located where? Beside or underneath the knobs? Given it's a 4 channel, I love the way the layout is on the K2. Also, VU's would be great! Considering how easy they are to map too. At least 20 little LEDs would be great but 10 would do! Right now I deal with 4! Haha!
Doreen Schurle 09.08.2013	Originally Posted by ProfessorStrangeman All my yes! But dear god PLEASE do not use push down knobs. I always accidentally bump them in heated moments. Haha Well you could always disable the feature in the mapping (or even with a physical switch on the unit) if we didn't use push-knobs, what would you prefer? Physical kill switches or buttons? And located where? Beside or underneath the knobs?
Wilton Keuning 09.08.2013	All my yes! But dear god PLEASE do not use push down knobs. I always accidentally bump them in heated moments.
Lannie Kutay 09.08.2013	Lol dude of course you know I would give it a try!!
Elias Knapp 09.08.2013	I'll sell my Z1 to get this!
Doreen Schurle 10.08.2013	Originally Posted by dj gullum I just ordered the Z1 yesterday but would still like to get a similar 4 channel mixer and with a 4in/4out sound card it could be used for timecode mixer with Mixvibes Cross witch I would be using it with for sure. Yeah that'd definitely be a possibility The only problem is that due to the prohibitive cost of Traktor Certification we wouldn't be able to offer it as a DVS for Traktor (or Serato), but Mixvibes, Mixxx, VirtualDJ and Deckadance would all be options for DVS users Primarily, however, I envisage it being used alongside an pair of X1s or PL-1s as a Traktor mixer. The idea is to provide enough flexibility for people to use it however they want by not artificially limiting specific features like some of the other pieces of kit on the market, so DVS would still be an option for those not using "the big two".
Ashanti Andreacchio 10.08.2013	I just ordered the Z1 yesterday but would still like to get a similar 4 channel mixer and with a 4in/4out sound card it could be used for timecode mixer with Mixvibes Cross witch I would be using it with for sure.

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Gauging Interest in 4 Channel MIDI Mixer