What % of Ableton DJ's mime?

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What % of Ableton DJ's mime?
Posted on: 17.08.2013 by Bryon Niccoli
Saw a pair of Ableton DJ's last evening do the odd bit of 'miming'. Silly things like pretend to turn on basslines with the EQ's, when clearly their laptop wasn't wired up to the mixer anyway. And it's not as if a producer is ever going to release a tune where a DJ is going to have to trigger an integral part of the track every 2 bars by twisting the bass dial to 4 O'clock (in real life that might blow the speakers!), because that would be an unfinished song.

I'm not hating on Ableton Live users because they don't beatmatch, after all it's still an improvised DJ set. But this comedic miming further confuses people as to what a DJ really does. So, how often do you see this in clubs, and if you're an Ableton user are you guilty of it?
Delena Katherman
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
Okay I will stop from here. Already explained enough and hope you all know my point.
Says the OP several posts ago.
Jeffrey Akinsanya
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
"Mixes should be 1 hour long and recorded using CDJs or Vinyl decks. We are happy for entrants to use Serato and Traktor, as well as midi controllers; however mixes recorded on Ableton or such will not be accepted."


no, it is a DJ competition. and there's nothing special with CDJ and Vinyl(has a jog and a platter) so shouldn't "very specified type of competition" be applied. what do you mean by fair and unfair? i wouldn't care if ableton is accepted.

"Please note that we are looking for a DJ that understands the skill of a warm up set, setting the tone for the headliners, and not someone that’s going to play party bangers from the offset, as the winner will be the first DJ on."
what is your point? youve dug a hole... cant you just admit...

your 1st post so wrong that people have put you right cant you just hold your hand up and say oh i didnt know that.. end of.
Keturah Wasco
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by jdownesbaird
Yeah, and it also says you're supposed to record your set with CDJs or vinyl. This is a very specific type of competition, and they have the right to set parameters to make judging as consistent and fair as possible. This has nothing to do with the effectiveness of Ableton for DJing in the real world, which is what you keep arguing against.
"Mixes should be 1 hour long and recorded using CDJs or Vinyl decks. We are happy for entrants to use Serato and Traktor, as well as midi controllers; however mixes recorded on Ableton or such will not be accepted."


no, it is a DJ competition. and there's nothing special with CDJ and Vinyl(has a jog and a platter) so shouldn't "very specified type of competition" be applied. what do you mean by fair and unfair? i wouldn't care if ableton is accepted.

"Please note that we are looking for a DJ that understands the skill of a warm up set, setting the tone for the headliners, and not someone that’s going to play party bangers from the offset, as the winner will be the first DJ on."
Delena Katherman
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
http://www.mixcloud.com/competitions...x-competition/

Brixton Academy denies Ableton in the competition.
Yeah, and it also says you're supposed to record your set with CDJs or vinyl. This is a very specific type of competition, and they have the right to set parameters to make judging as consistent and fair as possible. This has nothing to do with the effectiveness of Ableton for DJing in the real world, which is what you keep arguing against.
Delena Katherman
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by deevey

Being that you do not understand Ableton well enough to use it for DJ'ing.
Exactly.
Basil Forshee
23.08.2013		djoh,

You clearly have an overbiased view, based on nothing. The pile of nonsense you're spitting out, is just laughable.
I've DJ'ed with Ableton Live in the past, and rest assured: there's nothing preplanned about it.
Tell Surgeon (aka Anthony Childs, aka one of the godfathers of UK techno - but you probably don't know him) your opinion and he will laugh at your face. Many people agree, BTW.

From Wikipedia (!):
Surgeon is the pseudonym of Anthony Child (born 1 May 1971), an English electronic musician and DJ. Child releases music on his own labels Counterbalance and Dynamic Tension. Established imprints, such as Tresor, Soma, and Harthouse, have also released Surgeon's original material and remixes. He has also been recognized as one of the first wave of DJs to use Ableton Live and Final Scratch to supplement his DJ sets.
A really good example:


So after watching the video, do you still agree that everything must be pre planned?
Brunilda Kora
23.08.2013		This opinion that Ableton DJ's have "planned" their set is completely wrong.

It can be done - but then it can also be done in Traktor, Serato, Mixvibes, VDJ, etc... They're called PLAYLISTS.

You CAN select and load tracks in Ableton on the fly - I have Ableton Templates (that I used to sell) that allows you to do this mouselessly.

Mouslessly. That's a lovely word.

The whole point of the Session View in Ableton is that you can IMPROVISE. Drag and drop a drumloop, or synth line over the top of a playing track and instantly remix it.

The truth of the matter is - Ableton is by far and away, they BEST software for Live performance. BUT - it's also the one with the steepest learning curve. FX Chains, Dummy Clips, Macros, etc, allow so much flexibility in Ableton performances that it would make your average Traktor DJ's head spin!

A Traktor/VDJ/Serato DJ that hates on an Ableton DJ sounds like the basic n00b that they probably are!
Ana Butt
22.08.2013		Ableton DJ's have planned their set to last second, they fiddle with effects, delays, filters on the go that way to communicate with the crowd, that would be my best bet, I got a mate that is always using Ableton for Live Performances along with Allen Heath Xone:db4, and man he can rock the crowd! At the end of the day, its about delivery to the crowd, if they love it, so its a win no matter what you use ableton, traktor, vinyls, cdjs, controllers, serato or your ass to dj with. Just my views, loads could argue
Delena Katherman
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
Okay I will stop from here. Already explained enough and hope you all know my point.
Says the OP several posts ago.
Rolanda Clodfelder
22.08.2013		The reason Ableton is not allowed for the likes of that competition is simple, you can simply drag and drop your entire arrangement and tweak the mix in layout mode entirely, thereby removing the need to mix a track whatsoever.

This is not the normal way to play a set, but could easily be used to gain votes with a "perfect" mix and not necessarily require any live mixing or live mixing skills whatsoever.

Even as an Ableton DJ I can understand that its near impossible to judge skills when you have the possibility that everything is automated.

On that point it is a crying shame that Traktor removed its ability to Automate mixes via Midi - although if that was the case they'd probably ban it too haha.
Olin Easley
22.08.2013		They're giving a specific DJ slot on a specific evening . I reckon that counts as a very specific type of competition.
Jeffrey Akinsanya
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
"Mixes should be 1 hour long and recorded using CDJs or Vinyl decks. We are happy for entrants to use Serato and Traktor, as well as midi controllers; however mixes recorded on Ableton or such will not be accepted."


no, it is a DJ competition. and there's nothing special with CDJ and Vinyl(has a jog and a platter) so shouldn't "very specified type of competition" be applied. what do you mean by fair and unfair? i wouldn't care if ableton is accepted.

"Please note that we are looking for a DJ that understands the skill of a warm up set, setting the tone for the headliners, and not someone that’s going to play party bangers from the offset, as the winner will be the first DJ on."
what is your point? youve dug a hole... cant you just admit...

your 1st post so wrong that people have put you right cant you just hold your hand up and say oh i didnt know that.. end of.
Keturah Wasco
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by jdownesbaird
Yeah, and it also says you're supposed to record your set with CDJs or vinyl. This is a very specific type of competition, and they have the right to set parameters to make judging as consistent and fair as possible. This has nothing to do with the effectiveness of Ableton for DJing in the real world, which is what you keep arguing against.
"Mixes should be 1 hour long and recorded using CDJs or Vinyl decks. We are happy for entrants to use Serato and Traktor, as well as midi controllers; however mixes recorded on Ableton or such will not be accepted."


no, it is a DJ competition. and there's nothing special with CDJ and Vinyl(has a jog and a platter) so shouldn't "very specified type of competition" be applied. what do you mean by fair and unfair? i wouldn't care if ableton is accepted.

"Please note that we are looking for a DJ that understands the skill of a warm up set, setting the tone for the headliners, and not someone that’s going to play party bangers from the offset, as the winner will be the first DJ on."
Delena Katherman
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
http://www.mixcloud.com/competitions...x-competition/

Brixton Academy denies Ableton in the competition.
Yeah, and it also says you're supposed to record your set with CDJs or vinyl. This is a very specific type of competition, and they have the right to set parameters to make judging as consistent and fair as possible. This has nothing to do with the effectiveness of Ableton for DJing in the real world, which is what you keep arguing against.
Keturah Wasco
22.08.2013		http://www.mixcloud.com/competitions...x-competition/

Brixton Academy denies Ableton in the competition.
Arnulfo Morten
22.08.2013		i've seen alot of DJ's use ableton for live performances. and have sat with a few very good ones. Setting up a set takes a shit load of time.... yea you can do it on the fly some say you can do it in a few seconds haha analyze warp and setting up a track takes some time. Only cool uses i've seen is People using the Bridge or Midi sync with traktor to do some cool stuff but using pure ableton can be done but not that desirable if your coming from a traditional background.
Delena Katherman
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by deevey

Being that you do not understand Ableton well enough to use it for DJ'ing.
Exactly.
Rolanda Clodfelder
22.08.2013
I'm not hating Ableton, like I said I'm going to get one for the production but won't use it for the clubs when the situation changes every hour or minutes. so it's not for regular DJ (if can't switch any songs on the fly as I thought, again sorry if i'm wrong).
Yes you are wrong - read my lenghtly post.

I believe premade sets are for the important gig (for like huge gig and people know you and the music and came to see you. in the situation you must not fail on performing).
Again - my lengtly post

DJ = Disc Jockey.
Producer is producer, they can perform at a club or concert hall. disagree when they call them self a dj.
I'm primarily a DJ - not a producer, I play and remix other peoples tracks in Ableton.

DJ these days = Digital jockey

Okay I will stop from here. Already explained enough and hope you all know my point.
Being that you do not understand Ableton well enough to use it for DJ'ing.
Olin Easley
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
it consumes alot more time but the "output" is same compare to other dj software
If you're right, then why doesn't he use traktor or serato?
Keturah Wasco
22.08.2013
I like how the guy that hasn't tried to use Ableton to DJ is trying to argue that it can't be done effectively with the guys who currently use Ableton to DJ effectively.

Seems like it's time to cut your losses, quit arguing, and start believing what the actual Ableton users are telling you.
Okay I will stop from here. Already explained enough and hope you all know my point.
Keturah Wasco
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by DISaS73R
Again, Ableton does not necessarily mean you have to preplan your sets. FYI, Armin does use Ableton to mix for his podcasts.
Armin's Podcasts, Mix release vs Armin's Club or concert live - are different.
This topic started from for the "club".
Delena Katherman
22.08.2013		I like how the guy that hasn't tried to use Ableton to DJ is trying to argue that it can't be done effectively with the guys who currently use Ableton to DJ effectively.

Seems like it's time to cut your losses, quit arguing, and start believing what the actual Ableton users are telling you.
Jeffrey Akinsanya
22.08.2013		or you could get a DVS VST and just mix traditionally (not that i would)

http://www.djranking s.com/2013/08/0...de-in-any-daw/


the possibilities are endless in ableton..
Olin Easley
22.08.2013		Again, Ableton does not necessarily mean you have to preplan your sets. FYI, Armin does use Ableton to mix for his podcasts.
Jeffrey Akinsanya
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
I'm not hating Ableton, like I said I'm going to get one for the production but won't use it for the clubs when the situation changes every hour or minutes. so it's not for regular DJ (if can't switch any songs on the fly as I thought, again sorry if i'm wrong).

I believe premade sets are for the important gig (for like huge gig and people know you and the music and came to see you. in the situation you must not fail on performing).

DJ = Disc Jockey.
Producer is producer, they can perform at a club or concert hall. disagree when they call them self a dj.

good example, Armin Van Buuren Producer / DJ. he is the DJ who knows and care about the mood of the crowd. switching right songs based on the mood, on the fly with CDJ using CDs with his own song.

your set doesnt have to be pre made you just need to have warped your tracks before hand...

like you analyse in serato / traktor before hand its called warping in ableton...

in theory you could do this on the fly or you could not warp and manually beat match... (with a little midi mapping)
Keturah Wasco
23.08.2013
Originally Posted by DISaS73R
You did not mention even once mainstream music in the post I quoted. Also, preplanning a top40 set is quite all right, all the songs are pretty much the same and people who go to these clubs are dead drunk anyway. And as already mentioned, Ableton is not used for A->B DJing, so you're just hating on a program just because you can't understand it.
I'm not hating Ableton, like I said I'm going to get one for the production but won't use it for the clubs when the situation changes every hour or minutes. so it's not for regular DJ (if can't switch any songs on the fly as I thought, again sorry if i'm wrong).

I believe premade sets are for the important gig (for like huge gig and people know you and the music and came to see you. in the situation you must not fail on performing).

DJ = Disc Jockey.
Producer is producer, they can perform at a club or concert hall. disagree when they call them self a dj.

good example, Armin Van Buuren Producer / DJ. he is the DJ who knows and care about the mood of the crowd. switching right songs based on the mood, on the fly with CDJ using CDs with his own song.
Jeffrey Akinsanya
23.08.2013
Olin Easley
23.08.2013		You did not mention even once mainstream music in the post I quoted. Also, preplanning a top40 set is quite all right, all the songs are pretty much the same and people who go to these clubs are dead drunk anyway. And as already mentioned, Ableton is not used for A->B DJing, so you're just hating on a program just because you can't understand it.
Keturah Wasco
23.08.2013
Originally Posted by DISaS73R


KiNK disagrees.
lol when it comes to this kind of performance, why don't you link daft punk's video with ableton?
is he performing his music? or other mainstream that normal DJ plays?
my whole point was dedicated to 'regular DJ' for the club.
Arnulfo Morten
23.08.2013
Originally Posted by DISaS73R


KiNK disagrees.
lol and KINK would clear the floor in L.A. during prime time at a hot club haha.... or worse some drunk chick gonna come up to him with an iPhone requesting Justin Beaver or Hardwell
Olin Easley
22.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
it consumes alot more time but the "output" is same compare to other dj software


KiNK disagrees.
Brunilda Kora
22.08.2013



My friend is an ableton DJ, and he can do everything except hot cues in ableton.
It can be done in ableton. Just create a clip for every hotcue you want, and trigger 'em however you like.

SETTING hotcues on the fly cannot be done quickly, but it can be done. (COPY CLIP>PASTE TO SAME ABLETON CHANNEL>CHANGE START POSITION). This way, you can have HUNDREDS of hotcues per track.
Chandra Lean
22.08.2013		My friend is an ableton DJ, and he can do everything except hot cues in ableton.

He has an EQ section for each "Deck", he has his library planned out, he can adjust the master tempo on the fly. Granted there is no beatmatching (technically), he DJ's at the local bars playing acapellas on top of instrumentals, and shit like that.

Yes i gave him crap for not using traditional software, but if he is being called back time again to Dj the same bar because of how good he is doing, then i say that you can DJ on ableton.

"Yes he does mime often, but he is a showman on stage, so i understand it)
Keturah Wasco
22.08.2013		i know ableton has more function compare to other dj softwares. im just saying pre-made sets are dangerous for the club, has more fail percentage than change songs by reading the crowd (fail more = no book, no gigs). well ive been believeing that ableton djs are all premade set sorry if i am wrong.
i was/am going to get a ableton to make own original songs(as many djs do now) but when it comes to djing.. idk i would maybe go for the very important gig day, not for the regular gigs. it consumes alot more time but the "output" is same compare to other dj software, no need to waste of preparation time.
Jeffrey Akinsanya
21.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
First of all, Ableton is not a DJ software, so the definition word of "Ableton DJ" should not even exist.
I would understand if they remap the APC for DJ softwares such as Traktor or Serato to control all those functions then it should work just fine like mapping midi fighters to control DJ softwares. otherwise, loading all those TOP40 or hiphop or edm tracks in Ableton is a joke.

I do not believe you can import tracks while playing in Ableton Live, also not able to change tempo bend for next cueing song while mixing right? which means most of ableton players make the whole set at home and bring it to the club. and just play it around by doing EQ/Effects on APC and fist pumping.

If he brought alot of fans and crowds, that means people just came to see him and he makes the most profit of the evening , then, should leave him alone.
if not, please leave your APC at home for production use or play it in front of your own fans and crowds who knows your music already.
people usually don't come to the club to try strangers music production, and you don't even know what type of music would work for the evening and what type of people going to be filled on the dance floor.

Thought you chose Ableton to become a producer, not a DJ.

Here is the good article from Ean Golden.
http://www.djranking s.com/2012/03/1...-set-cheating/

omg! lol....

really hard not to take this bait but you comments are just annoying me.

the world is bigger than traktor and serato.. ableton is a very powerful application search the youtube you got alot to learn.
i dont understand you comments above top40 whats that got to do with anything?
Olin Easley
21.08.2013
Originally Posted by djoh
Thought you chose Ableton to become a producer, not a DJ.
Ableton Live
Rolanda Clodfelder
21.08.2013
First of all, Ableton is not a DJ software, so the definition word of "Ableton DJ" should not even exist.
So ask yourself why they added a Crossfader and Cue ? .. I am an Ableton DJ

I would understand if they remap the APC for DJ softwares such as Traktor or Serato to control all those functions then it should work just fine like mapping midi fighters to control DJ softwares.
The APC is completely un-intuitve for Traktor IMHO (or at least was until the remix decks were unlocked), ableton give you the same functionality as remix decks and then some.

otherwise, loading all those TOP40 or hiphop or edm tracks in Ableton is a joke.
No its not, I load over 400 Tracks and About 400 Samples into Ableton across 8 channels prior to a set, which are all nicely color coded by style/energy

I can also preview and drag/drop directly from Itunes as I have my Cue output set up as the computers master out.

I do not believe you can import tracks while playing in Ableton Live, also not able to change tempo bend for next cueing song while mixing right?
Wrong, Firstly you can pitch bend just fine on any deck in ableton, just set the Track Quantize to none and use nudge and you can warp virtually any track within 5 seconds .. some take longer, but its just a matter of doing it once when the track is purchased and leaving the .asd file in my itunes library.

I do use pitch bend quite alot to get stuff back in sync if I didn't bother warping it properly or want to drop a new track. (also for syncing with the previous DJ).

Secondly, you can Drag and Drop any MP3/wav straight onto a clip from any open window or itunes.

If you are really smart you can set up channels with all your clips and tracks pre-prepped and sliced up which you grab from the library (i'm just not that organized for most tracks).

which means most of ableton players make the whole set at home and bring it to the club. and just play it around by doing EQ/Effects on APC and fist pumping.
Again Wrong

if not, please leave your APC at home for production use or play it in front of your own fans and crowds who knows your music already.
Yeah ... speak for yourself on that

people usually don't come to the club to try strangers music production, and you don't even know what type of music would work for the evening and what type of people going to be filled on the dance floor.
You are going to the wrong clubs then, sure mainstream clubs they dont, however even in mainstream clubs there's alot more remixing, beat juggling going on these days too.

So yeah, if you are an A>B Dj ableton is overkill, otherwise its a powerful tool IF you know how to use it.

Thought you chose Ableton to become a producer, not a DJ.
Huh ?

[QUOTE=djoh;645071]Still, Ableton is not DJ software and not suitable for the club 'unless the crowd already know about your music' as i mentioned above.

A few critical “DJ features” Live is missing:

True tempo bending or adjusting the phase of a mix on the fly;
Untrue

Storing multiple loops within a track;
True, but ...
Multiple hot cue points (this can be emulated by creating multiple clips);
There you go

Playlists and an internal music library; and
Direct playback of .mp3s (they must be converted to .wav by Live).
Agreed, browser SHOULD have been completely re-worked in Live 9, Itunes drag an drop is the best way of doing it currently OR as I do, load ALOT of tracks into the grid which essentially is my playlist.

hmm Storing DJ libraries in wav files...?
I don't


I saw this guy messing around w Ableton in the club but emptied the floor in many gig days even though his mix was perfect with
nice uplifting songs and all that. have you read the post that Ean wrote yet(the link in my previous reply)?
And ......, so what, I have seen plenty of top notch DJ's empty floors as well (do a google search for Armand Van Helden who decided to play a hip hop set in ministry of sound).

Just means either (a) he wasnt very good (b) was not right for the evening in question.

You don't book a techno DJ when the crowd expects mainstream stuff they can sing along to.

and anyways.. what is wrong with my headphone? :P seriously. what's wrong with beats pro? just curious.. changed to tiesto headphone since many djs using beats pro now.
Beats in general have a Rep with the majority of alot of DJ's for being "just another fashion statement" .. The Studios were complete Dog Turd, the pro's in fairness had a decent built, and bloody loud (fine for DJing with) but as with all the Beats lineup have a stupidly exaggerated bass end, and ARE severely overpriced for what you get.

However the Tiesto 167's and 267's are supposed to be Absolutely Amazing going by the reviews of the seasoned audiophiles on Head-fi. (and having tried the 167's - they are really comfortable).
Keturah Wasco
21.08.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
My God - there is so much fail in that post I don't know where to start.



Ah OK. That explains it...

I'm only playing, mate. Don't take it to heart!
Still, Ableton is not DJ software and not suitable for the club 'unless the crowd already know about your music' as i mentioned above.

A few critical “DJ features” Live is missing:

True tempo bending or adjusting the phase of a mix on the fly;
Storing multiple loops within a track;
Multiple hot cue points (this can be emulated by creating multiple clips);
Playlists and an internal music library; and
Direct playback of .mp3s (they must be converted to .wav by Live).

http://www.djranking s.com/2010/10/0...-ableton-live/

hmm Storing DJ libraries in wav files...?


I saw this guy messing around w Ableton in the club but emptied the floor in many gig days even though his mix was perfect with
nice uplifting songs and all that. have you read the post that Ean wrote yet(the link in my previous reply)?

and anyways.. what is wrong with my headphone? :P seriously. what's wrong with beats pro? just curious.. changed to tiesto headphone since many djs using beats pro now.
I also have Sony MDR v700 seatin on the couch (and is the 2nd one, first one i bought it about 10 yrs ago)
Brunilda Kora
21.08.2013
First of all, Ableton is not a DJ software, so the definition word of "Ableton DJ" should not even exist.
I would understand if they remap the APC for DJ softwares such as Traktor or Serato to control all those functions then it should work just fine like mapping midi fighters to control DJ softwares. otherwise, loading all those TOP40 or hiphop or edm tracks in Ableton is a joke.

I do not believe you can import tracks while playing in Ableton Live, also not able to change tempo bend for next cueing song while mixing right? which means most of ableton players make the whole set at home and bring it to the club. and just play it around by doing EQ/Effects on APC and fist pumping.
My God - there is so much fail in that post I don't know where to start.

Headphone - Beats Pro White Headphone
Ah OK. That explains it...

I'm only playing, mate. Don't take it to heart!
Keturah Wasco
21.08.2013		First of all, Ableton is not a DJ software, so the definition word of "Ableton DJ" should not even exist.
I would understand if they remap the APC for DJ softwares such as Traktor or Serato to control all those functions then it should work just fine like mapping midi fighters to control DJ softwares. otherwise, loading all those TOP40 or hiphop or edm tracks in Ableton is a joke.

I do not believe you can import tracks while playing in Ableton Live, also not able to change tempo bend for next cueing song while mixing right? which means most of ableton players make the whole set at home and bring it to the club. and just play it around by doing EQ/Effects on APC and fist pumping.

If he brought alot of fans and crowds, that means people just came to see him and he makes the most profit of the evening , then, should leave him alone.
if not, please leave your APC at home for production use or play it in front of your own fans and crowds who knows your music already.
people usually don't come to the club to try strangers music production, and you don't even know what type of music would work for the evening and what type of people going to be filled on the dance floor.

Thought you chose Ableton to become a producer, not a DJ.

Here is the good article from Ean Golden.
http://www.djranking s.com/2012/03/1...-set-cheating/

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