Come on NI - you know you want to release this...

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Come on NI - you know you want to release this...
Posted on: 13.12.2011 by Arcelia Siebeneck


let's get some proper waveform displays on the S4 so we can hide the laptop under the dj booth...
Oretha Afful
04.10.2013
Originally Posted by MiL0
totally agreed - I would buy a mixer only version of the S4 in a heartbeat... it's a shame NI didn't realise this instead of the S2 imo.
ugh the mixer of the S4 was the reason I got rid of mine. A cheap $200 numark mixer is better to mix on than the mixer in the S4.

they should have put the screens on the X1 MK2!
Arcelia Siebeneck
15.12.2011
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
NI make money on software, whatever they bring out will be tied to the software.
That will never change. They wont make anything that takes the software out of the equation (for DJs).
I dunno if I'm not making my point very clearly, or if I'm preaching to the wrong people, but all I'm asking for is a Traktor controller that allows the same level of integration as NI provides with Maschine. In other words, a hardware solution that is still tied to the Traktor software, in the same way that Maschine is.

No more, no less

Everyone who's saying that they like using a laptop to DJ with can continue to do so. But if the controller I'm daydreaming about in the screenshot above was realised, then we'd have a CHOICE of how we interact with Traktor.

surely that's a win/win for everyone?

Anyone who's still saying it's a stupid idea need to take it up with the designers of Maschine - because NI clearly believe it's a good idea. It's just a shame they don't offer that kind of software/hardware integration across the whole of their product line.
Oretha Afful
04.10.2013
Originally Posted by MiL0
totally agreed - I would buy a mixer only version of the S4 in a heartbeat... it's a shame NI didn't realise this instead of the S2 imo.
ugh the mixer of the S4 was the reason I got rid of mine. A cheap $200 numark mixer is better to mix on than the mixer in the S4.

they should have put the screens on the X1 MK2!
Lewis Stumpf
04.10.2013		*cracks nuckles*
Neville Blackinton
04.10.2013		Nice bump and even better call back then
Arcelia Siebeneck
03.10.2013		given what DJTT has just posted on their blog, I thought this thread needed another timely bump!

edit: spot the differences...

Random X
11.09.2012		Great topic.
Leeanna Ayla
11.09.2012		Nice, timely bump Milo
Arcelia Siebeneck
11.09.2012		still waiting NI... :P
Arcelia Siebeneck
15.12.2011		By the way, this whole conversation would be moot if NI would release some sort of API / SDK for Traktor (in the same way that Ableton have). Then they could let other programmers have a go at creating solutions that allow deeper levels of integration with Traktor.(*)

Just because some people can't imagine the possibilities of this, doesn't make it a worthless idea.

(*) For example, the work done by myself and others here:

http://www.djranking s.com/community /showthread.php?t=18512

and

http://www.djranking s.com/community /showthread.php?t=28523

and

http://www.djranking s.com/community /showthread.php?t=5489

aaaand

http://www.djranking s.com/community /showthread.php?t=32001

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r_ZAFH-dcU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8A64LOXRZs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AUQUGt6wlQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gQBgCKsGgc

All videos above done by myself except the bottom one done by DJTT member, Siytek. DJTT member DJ Necro has also been heavily involved with these Traktor mods.
Arcelia Siebeneck
15.12.2011
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
NI make money on software, whatever they bring out will be tied to the software.
That will never change. They wont make anything that takes the software out of the equation (for DJs).
I dunno if I'm not making my point very clearly, or if I'm preaching to the wrong people, but all I'm asking for is a Traktor controller that allows the same level of integration as NI provides with Maschine. In other words, a hardware solution that is still tied to the Traktor software, in the same way that Maschine is.

No more, no less

Everyone who's saying that they like using a laptop to DJ with can continue to do so. But if the controller I'm daydreaming about in the screenshot above was realised, then we'd have a CHOICE of how we interact with Traktor.

surely that's a win/win for everyone?

Anyone who's still saying it's a stupid idea need to take it up with the designers of Maschine - because NI clearly believe it's a good idea. It's just a shame they don't offer that kind of software/hardware integration across the whole of their product line.
nayit ruiz jaramillo
15.12.2011		NI make money on software, whatever they bring out will be tied to the software.
That will never change. They wont make anything that takes the software out of the equation (for DJs).
Kristofer Krauel
15.12.2011		I really don't get this thread at all. I mean if you are using Traktor your laptop still needs to be in the booth to run the software. So why then sacrifice my lovely 13-17inch screen that is already in the booth for a 4 - 5 inch (max in my opinion) screen on my controller? I'm I missing something?

The pads I agree with. Them Maschine pads are really tactile!!!
Arcelia Siebeneck
14.12.2011		you could say the same thing about the displays on CDJ2000's...
Danae Dumler
14.12.2011		I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, yes, way cool. On the other, I don't believe it really solves the problem of screen distraction to put more screens on things. You're still gonna be watching a screen, it's just that you moved the screen to your controller instead of your laptop. On the other hand (yes I have 3 hands now), make those waveforms touchscreens and some cool possibilities might open up. But in the end if you want to get away from screens, spin vinyl or use DVS and cover your screen up. Moving the screen doesn't really fix the problem; it just distributes it.
Nisha Latkowski
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by guiltyblade
I used that thing at best buy, first problem. And man beat matching on that laggy slow thing was a pain in the arse. Granted I only spent about 5 mins on it, but 5 mins was all I needed to know to stay away.
the jogs are useless on this piece..Best Buy would probably sell more if they got rid of the floor model.
Christiana Renda
14.12.2011		This idea is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
Arcelia Siebeneck
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by nem0nic
No they didn't. The Maschine software (and it's GUI) is a HUGE part of working with Maschine. Yes, there are some elements of Maschine that can be left to the hardware interface, but I can't imagine using it without the software open right in front of me. Are you going to force users to go through a 3 line list of songs in an LCD to browse their library? And if there is a moving waveform in the display, where do I get the heads up of seeing across a full static waveform where my cue and loop points are? What about sample decks? There's tons of data in the software GUI that users take advantage of - why take a step backwards and eliminate that?

We use computers to perform now. We need to collectively get over the idea that these devices don't belong in a DJ booth.
What you're saying is true but you have to admit a large part of NI's marketing campaign (for the Maschine but also the S4) is the notion of ridding a producer of the need to use a mouse and keyboard as much.

I'm not really saying that we should totally get rid of laptops from the dj booth, I'm just saying that NI are in the best possible position to give DJ's the choice of how much they interact with the laptop when DJ'ing. As it stands at the moment, Traktor and hardware like the S4 simply don't offer the same level of hardware/software integration as other NI products do (like Maschine).
Diogo Dj Dragão
14.12.2011
...they developed the Maschine specifically so that you can write music without using a mouse or laptop screen. So why can't they do the same for Traktor?
No they didn't. The Maschine software (and it's GUI) is a HUGE part of working with Maschine. Yes, there are some elements of Maschine that can be left to the hardware interface, but I can't imagine using it without the software open right in front of me. Are you going to force users to go through a 3 line list of songs in an LCD to browse their library? And if there is a moving waveform in the display, where do I get the heads up of seeing across a full static waveform where my cue and loop points are? What about sample decks? There's tons of data in the software GUI that users take advantage of - why take a step backwards and eliminate that?

We use computers to perform now. We need to collectively get over the idea that these devices don't belong in a DJ booth.
Romelia Stankard
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by guiltyblade
I used that thing at best buy, first problem. And man beat matching on that laggy slow thing was a pain in the arse. Granted I only spent about 5 mins on it, but 5 mins was all I needed to know to stay away.
Me too, that thing is absolutely horrific.
Arcelia Siebeneck
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by Lazy Money
that's actually a really interesting controller concept - shame the realisation doesn't meet expectations.
Alla Bluemke
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by Lazy Money
I used that thing at best buy, first problem. And man beat matching on that laggy slow thing was a pain in the arse. Granted I only spent about 5 mins on it, but 5 mins was all I needed to know to stay away.
Sherman Rauh
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by Rukks
if you had a set list prepared I don't see why you would need a computer.
But what if your audience isn't really digging your set and you need to change it up a bit. This is why I need complete access to all of my music on a screen that doesn't make it a hassle to find it.

I don't like spending all my time staring at a laptop screen either but it is just so damn handy having all of my music there ready to go only a few clicks away I don't believe I could give that up.
Nella Libin
14.12.2011		^^^^ Me too, but i aint NI centric
Leeanna Ayla
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by Lazy Money
That's the first thing I thought of.
Zula Ferington
14.12.2011
Dino Hapgood
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Yeah saying maschine is kinda misleading I get what youre going for.

Forget maschine integration just having LCD screens on the controller that show waveforms and stuff similar to the way maschine dose it.

I would also really love a modular deck controller for traktor.

Something the equivalent of a Numark V7 but it is non spinning and has a CDJ2000 sized S4 like jog wheel and has LCD screens on the controller that show Traktor waveforms and stuff priced at $500 each or less. If they don't ever get around to advanced hid on the cdj2000.

Plus a sound card and connection that can be linked through ethernet so the sound cards aggregate and it only takes up one usb port.
You are living in a fanstasy. 500 or less? Ha!

Why would NI sacrifice margins (I mean this from a business sense, not a cynical one)?

There are a few problems I see with your concept however:

Why do I want to give up the real estate of my laptop and pay extra money for a few dinky small screens? The s4 already does a good job of keeping you from touching the computer at all.

How am I going to use this without jogs if I don't play easily gridded music?

What is the difference between looking down at tiny little screens and looking across at your laptop? I always keep my laptop off to the side, never in front of me - I hate my laptop in front of me. But I'd hate to not use my laptop at all too.

All in all I just don't get the external screen idea. They aren't big enough to simply glance at - you have to look close - and it doesn't leverage the use of your current screen on your laptop. You're trading one screen for another - and you're paying more money for it in the process. There is never a time in the booth I can't just glance at my screen quickly to do a check on something. Giving that up would be dropping one of traktors biggest strengths.
Lang Abriel
14.12.2011		Ill do a cad mockup of this either over my winter break or next semester as a project or something....but yeah I have a few ideas of my own as well on this topic.


Basically, a beefy midi mixer with pads and fx panel, probably 8 pads per side but not as big as the maschine pads, slightly smaller.

I believe it would be a big boost to the 'respect' shown for controllerist if you could dj with your computer closed, if you had a set list prepared I don't see why you would need a computer.

Basically have the main display showing a waveform, bpm, and time (the info in the track display window of traktor currently) and then just one extra line of text to show which effect is selected...all else would be hardware feedback.

The second layer of the display would be for browsing and loading (just have a file loadout)

very very interesting though...I believe a midi mixer would be more profitable and a better product placement instead of another controller.

I would buy it if I had turntables or cdjs and wanted tight integration without 75ft of deckspace with the s4.
Romelia Stankard
14.12.2011
Originally Posted by MiL0
As I mentioned earlier, I'm not talking about combining Traktor with Maschine. I'm talking about a controller that deeply integrates with Traktor so that the 2 screens display information that can't be extrapolated using midi/hid (the only 2 options we have at the moment). I presume Maschine connects via USB and receives some sort of propietary data that allows it to function the way it does.

I'm talking about the Maschine a lot in this thread because it's clear that NI understand the software/hardware integration paradigm better than most... they developed the Maschine specifically so that you can write music without using a mouse or laptop screen. So why can't they do the same for Traktor?

And yeah, the more pads the better!
Yeah saying maschine is kinda misleading I get what youre going for.

Forget maschine integration just having LCD screens on the controller that show waveforms and stuff similar to the way maschine dose it.

I would also really love a modular deck controller for traktor.

Something the equivalent of a Numark V7 but it is non spinning and has a CDJ2000 sized S4 like jog wheel and has LCD screens on the controller that show Traktor waveforms and stuff priced at $500 each or less. If they don't ever get around to advanced hid on the cdj2000.

Plus a sound card and connection that can be linked through ethernet so the sound cards aggregate and it only takes up one usb port.
Arcelia Siebeneck
13.12.2011
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
I would be very surprised if NI combine a Traktor controller and Maschine in quite the same way you have done on your mock up
As I mentioned earlier, I'm not talking about combining Traktor with Maschine. I'm talking about a controller that deeply integrates with Traktor so that the 2 screens display information that can't be extrapolated using midi/hid (the only 2 options we have at the moment). I presume Maschine connects via USB and receives some sort of propietary data that allows it to function the way it does.

I'm talking about the Maschine a lot in this thread because it's clear that NI understand the software/hardware integration paradigm better than most... they developed the Maschine specifically so that you can write music without using a mouse or laptop screen. So why can't they do the same for Traktor?

And yeah, the more pads the better!
nayit ruiz jaramillo
13.12.2011		But they released the S2 to a waiting market.
That doesnt mean they arent working on a crap load of other stuff as well.

Its often assumed that one thing is brought out at the expense of another. I dont see it like that. NI wanna make money so they can develop all manner of stuff. The S2 is selling like hot cakes.

I would be very surprised if NI combine a Traktor controller and Maschine in quite the same way you have done on your mock up but i wouldnt be surprised to see pads on a Traktor controller.
So many DJs are using Maschine and barely scraping the surface of what Maschine does simply cus they dont care, they just want pads.

Its all about the pad at the moment. NI would be silly not to realise that. NI arent silly.
Arcelia Siebeneck
13.12.2011
Originally Posted by earl panda
i guess there
Candy Vardy
13.12.2011
Originally Posted by Coldfuzion
You guys do know something like this exists right? The thing is another company makes it! The only difference (from your mockup) is that it's only got 2 channels. It's called a Novation Twitch!
Ooh ooh ooh I have one of those!
Matt Kane
13.12.2011		i guess there
Arcelia Siebeneck
13.12.2011
Originally Posted by ekwipt
I'd love something like this but I'd be happy enough for a mixer only version, Im really into the idea of modular setups, that way you don't restrict people
totally agreed - I would buy a mixer only version of the S4 in a heartbeat... it's a shame NI didn't realise this instead of the S2 imo.
Romelia Stankard
13.12.2011		If this was made of metal it would be solid! I like the idea a lot.
Arcelia Siebeneck
13.12.2011		here's another example of what I'm talking about:



That's the removable front panel for the Akai S6000 hardware sampler. As well as being controllable via the front panel, you could also use ak.sys to remote control everything via a pc/mac. This was developed 10 years ago and is WAY more advance than anything you see on the market today!

see: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov0.../akaiaksys.asp

It's this sort of integration that I believe should be the next step for Native Instruments. If they opened up Traktor to a deeper level of software/hardware integration then we could also see some really interesting iOS/Android Traktor apps (ones that can display Traktor waveforms, file browsers, grid point editing, etc)
Melania Sandru
13.12.2011		This thing looks amazing, you should send it over to NI as a prototype because I can definitely see something like this happening one day.
Rochel Gleese
13.12.2011		I'd love something like this but I'd be happy enough for a mixer only version, Im really into the idea of modular setups, that way you don't restrict people
Arcelia Siebeneck
13.12.2011		if Twitch was anything like I'm proposing then I'd have bought one a long time ago!

there isn't really anything on the market like the screenshot above... NI would need to open up Traktor so that external hardware can display waveforms, track names, etc... a much deeper interaction between software and hardware would be required (much like Maschine allows).

The only similarity between my photoshop and Twitch is that they both don't have jogwheels.

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