Beatmatching by ear, two questions
Beatmatching by ear, two questions Posted on: 05.10.2013 by Thomasine Scatliffe Hi guys,I very recently bought a Numark Pro to try a little bit of mixing because I am a big fan of electronic music. I believe I know the very basics by now, and I recently started to learn to beatmatch by ear. All I do is pure bedroom DJ'ing, I am not expecting anything out of it for now. It's pure for fun. Would love to have the skills to play in a club or so in the future, but for the moment it is just a hobby. I was wondering two things: 1. I am having a lot of problems to beatmatch two songs if they're having a different audio source (1 from cue headphones, 1 from monitors). Is it 'acceptable' / a good way to simply beatmatch with purely with headphones (both songs going through the headphones)? Or is it really crucial to learn to hear one song from monitors and one song from the headphones? 2. Beatmatching two 4x4 dance songs is going pretty good.. but sadly there are loads of songs with harder patterns and songs that are more noisy, is there any trick or there any easy tips to mix songs together? I hope my questions aren't too newbish, this is just my first post here. It's all bedroom DJ'ing but I would love to get a solid start, that's also why I avoid the sync button. Other advise or beginner tips are welcome as well. Cheers | |
| Annalisa Shogren 10.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj
I've always wondered how sync DJ's get on with B2B sets? And if you have to use gear that doesn't have phase meters and sync buttons, how do you get on then? |
| Vito Chesnut 09.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj
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| Layne Koop 09.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by synthet1c
The point was that with "20 hours" of hands on practice...you can overcome the "obviously incompetent" barriers for (almost) any task. That gets you to the point that you can have "fun" and start getting creative. 20 hours of hands on practice is still a LOT of time....that's not researching the topic, or reading about the topic, or debating the topic on a chat board...that's 20 hours of hard core practice. He also make the point about focusing on the "low handing fruit" and the "best bang for $$$" approaches to the topic. AND...who says that visual cues are not OK to use....especially as you are learning? Sync might not be in the spirit of beatmatching....but the waveform overlap in Virtual DJ, or the phase meter in Traktor might be OK (they're OK with me, in case you needed "permission" from someone). Even with a visual cue, the DJ still has to "manually" make the adjustments. |
| Annalisa Shogren 09.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Patch
Incoming tune cue on. Use the mix/master knob to use as a pre listen cross fader. Listen at different points on the dial e.g. 9, 11, 1, 3 o'clock to check it's in time. |
| Annalisa Shogren 10.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj
I've always wondered how sync DJ's get on with B2B sets? And if you have to use gear that doesn't have phase meters and sync buttons, how do you get on then? |
| Catheryn Airola 09.10.2013 | 1. Honestly, whatever input source you're getting that clearly depicts the two tracks is fine. The fact that you're manually beatmatching is a good thing! Monitors can have slight delay, so it can be problematic. 2. Beatmatching two completely different genres is completely impossible sometimes and your best bet would be to start cold. Lets say you're mixing out of a built in club system that's playing Hip-Hop and you're about to start a House set, there's no mixing between 90BPM and 128BPM without it sounding like garbage. It is for this reason that I keep a folder of tracks that starts with a tone/vocal and not a drum sequence. Find tracks that sound good when started cold. Nobody wants to hear 64 beats of kickdrums to start a set. |
| Alphonso Deitchman 09.10.2013 | If you have accurate grids in Traktor, the phase meter is pretty much as accurate as Sync. |
| Vito Chesnut 09.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj
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| Brynn Matroni 09.10.2013 | It was about learning when to drop and getting a grasp on matching the beats not intended as a long term solution.It was only to get the concept more.Of course it takes time but practicing is a very enjoyable and rewarding thing.Of course try other records too, every scenario of will have some experience worth gaining, that's why the trying is worthwhile. |
| Layne Koop 09.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by synthet1c
The point was that with "20 hours" of hands on practice...you can overcome the "obviously incompetent" barriers for (almost) any task. That gets you to the point that you can have "fun" and start getting creative. 20 hours of hands on practice is still a LOT of time....that's not researching the topic, or reading about the topic, or debating the topic on a chat board...that's 20 hours of hard core practice. He also make the point about focusing on the "low handing fruit" and the "best bang for $$$" approaches to the topic. AND...who says that visual cues are not OK to use....especially as you are learning? Sync might not be in the spirit of beatmatching....but the waveform overlap in Virtual DJ, or the phase meter in Traktor might be OK (they're OK with me, in case you needed "permission" from someone). Even with a visual cue, the DJ still has to "manually" make the adjustments. |
| Jodie Lenser 09.10.2013 | I'm sure you know it but my biggest thing was being able to do "the count" 1 to 8. or 1-16, depending on what you're listening to. should be able to count from a bar on each one to the same number without missing a beat. which ever one is going sooner/later slow it down or speed it up, depending on which. really upped my game without relying on the bpm and visuals |
| Jonathan Chiuchiolo 10.10.2013 | I believe ^^ that is a bad idea... If you play the same track on both decks all you will do is create a flanger or phaser effect unless the match is absolutely spot on, plus doing this will just get you bored. I believe it's better to pick tunes that are similar sounding and restrict yourself to about 50 tracks to start with. Doing this you will get comfortable with you tracks but won't get bored of playing the same track turning mixing into a chore. No matter what the guy on TEDx says you can't learn beatmatching with no visual cues in 20 hours, there is nothing you can do to speed up the process as it is one of those skills that just clicks one day and you will have the ability to hear two or more different tracks at the same time and independently assess the speed. |
| Antonetta Wikel 10.10.2013 | I never use the master to cue, I only use the cues from each channel fader. First, I set level of incoming track against what's currrently playing by switching between the cue of the track playing and the cue of the incoming track (You should scan somewhere into the middle of the incoming track to set volume against what it's like full on). Once levels are set I can worry about beatmatching, still just using the line fader cues. Then, once I know I'm beatmatched, I turn down the eq's of the incoming track, usually not all the way but pretty far and drop the track against the master to make sure the incoming is barely audible or non exisitant against the master track. Recue, raise line fader to near the top, drop incoming track on a break, drop or beginning of a phrase. remove headphones, mix solely in monitors using mostly eq adjustments(Eq Swaps, add/remove) and subtle line fader adjustments (Note:this can also be done in headphones by just cueing the master if monitors aren't available). Keep in mind I mix and cut differently depending on what styles I'm playing but this is my general preference for mixing House, Tech House, Techno. Mixes last anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 or more minutes depending on... |
| Vito Chesnut 09.10.2013 | I mix all mine in my headphones from beginning of the mix, then remove one ear as the volume gets about 1/4 of the way up, so I can fine tune the levels and eq through the monitor. If your beats aren't locked by the time you get 1/4 of the way up in volume, it will sound like crap anyways.. so that's my method. |
| Brunilda Kora 09.10.2013 | Not sure you've understood what I'm after, mate... I'm after a balance knob for the incoming track (phone L/R), but for the master to be in BOTH phones. |
| Annalisa Shogren 09.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Patch
Incoming tune cue on. Use the mix/master knob to use as a pre listen cross fader. Listen at different points on the dial e.g. 9, 11, 1, 3 o'clock to check it's in time. |
| Brunilda Kora 09.10.2013 | Church. Split monitoring in headphones is a great way to learn beatmatching. I've done all types of jiggery-pokery and creative cabling in order to try different methods of cuing/beatmatching. Some mixers have it right (for me) but sime mixers don't. TBH, I haven't got it sorted my way (yet) for my DJM 850. My personal favourite way, is to have the MASTER output going to BOTH sides of the phones, and whatever I am cuing/beatmatching in only the LEFT phone. |
| Matt Kane 09.10.2013 | imho beatmatching by ear in a clubenvironment work better when using headphones. i have often experienced that the sound coming out of the booth monitor can be a few milliseconds behind the beat that is going through you heaphones. so it would make more sense to match the beat that is playing in your headphones. |
| Annalisa Shogren 09.10.2013 | Turn the BPM read out off in Traktor (also in the track browser section). Turn the phase meter off. As soon as you press play, you need to be on the jog wheel either speeding the tune up or slowing it down, as you do so, slowly move the pitch in the direction of which you need to either slow the tune up or down, but only small increments at a time depending on how fast you're moving your hand, the faster you're moving your hand on the jog, the longer you'll have to move the pitch fader, then stop for a second to make sure they're in time. If not, carry on with the procedure again. You'll get quicker and quicker over time. It's just one of those things that comes with practice. One day you'll just get it. |
| Alla Bluemke 09.10.2013 | Here is how I have many many people and they all picked it up very quickly at an at least respectable amount after a day. 1)Start with BPM same on two tracks, you already know this. Try same song first, it may help or at songs with easy clear kicks 2)press play on one, then play on another and try to match them up. I mix completely in my headphones until they are match then pull my headphones off to hear if what I have done is true to the monitors. Listen very carefully for doubling or slightly off beats. Use the jog to fix accordingly. Repeat this process over and over until you have it down. 3) now try two different songs, same process. Repeat. Make sure you are a total pro at this until you move onto next step. 4) now vary bpm completely and try to match without any visual aid. use the pitch fader to adjust accordingly. Once you believe you are matched up check the bpm and see how close you are. Remember to let beat ride for a little to see if there is any adjusting. Once you get good at this you can do this on the fly and adjust while both tracks are up in volume to keep things in line. Practice this like crazy. |
| Thomasine Scatliffe 08.10.2013 | Thanks for the great amount of replies! I will watch that Ted video tomorrow as well. Thanks To clarify: I already beatmatch without the sync button, I use the pitch fader combined with the jog wheel to let the two songs match. However, I find it quite hard to beat match two songs with one coming from the monitors, and one coming from my headphones. I have no problems beat matching (easy 4 to the floor) songs with just my headphones on, though I do have to admit I sometimes 'cheat' and look at the synch bar (I forgot the name, it's above the waveform in Traktor) to look if the two songs are in sync. Most of the time I start fading in the second song around 32 bars before the song fades out (it's about 1 minute). I try to avoid looking at the computer as much as possible, but I'm still in the stage where I really need the waveforms to assist me. Well, I will just keep practicing a lot. Also about counting beats, I count to 8 every time (automatism by now). Do you guys count beats towards 32/64 all the time? Because most of the time new elements get added in songs every 32/64 (8/16 bars) beats. |
| Mckenzie Kozan 08.10.2013 | if you are using software (i.e. traktor, equivalent) you can try this method. 1) all of your tracks need to have the beat grid placed anywhere after beat 1 (the default) 2) assign a beat grid adjust left and right button to your controller 3) play 2 tracks over each other using headphones, and adjust the beat grid until they are beatmatched perfect 4) recue your tracks and mix appropriatly (using monitors) also, it helps to use the camelot wheel when using track selection, the beats tend to be same/similar pitch. using the above and camelot, it's rare when two tracks don't work if they are similar styles. and all you who are about to flame me for using sync, i am purely recreational, so don't blow up too much. -DB |
| Arnulfo Morten 08.10.2013 | Get good headphones... I'm serious maybe it's just me but that was the key. Rockin HDJ-2000 btw |
| Alycia Niederriter 08.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by soundinmotiondj
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| Lakeesha Storman 08.10.2013 | Regardless of whether you're doing it in headphones or headphone/monitor, having the volumes appear "equal" so one song isn't dominating the other is very important for me. I usually tap my foot to the currently playing song's beat. Some songs, especially in house are easy with the 4 on the floor aspect. Sometimes I have to move to a different part of the song I'm cueing up to find a spot that I can beat match. Other times I have to change what I'm listening for. At times, I'm listening for the kick, others either the hat or clap on the 2nd and 4th beats, other times I'm making sure the bass line or synth hook are contained within the 4 beats in the currently playing song. And just practice...daily. Don't always use the same songs to practice once you get it down a bit. (which it sounds like you have) This will force you to have to listen for different things or look for different spots of the song to match. I usually try to find a drop of the incoming song and set a cuepoint there. Play, listen, adjust, back to cue point to test again. |
| Layne Koop 08.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Raaph
Originally Posted by Raaph
Originally Posted by Raaph
Technique 1: Have the incoming song cued to a "1"...preferably at the beginning of a phrase (8 bar segment). Count the beats in the outgoing song until you reach the start of a new phrase....and start the incoming song on the "1". The two songs will be "in the ballpark" at this point. Technique 2: Make a solid 8 or 16 count loop on the incoming song. Count the beats in the outgoing song until you reach the start of a new phrase....and start the incoming song on the "1". The two songs will be "in the ballpark" at this point. When you are done making the transition, release the loop on the incoming song. Work on blending or crossfading the songs over the next 32 beats. Use EQ to cut some bass from one song. Alternatively use a dedicated filter to help blend the songs together. Repeat until you are comfortable. Set aside dedicated practice time. I find that 15-20 minutes, two times a day works best for me...you will probably be different. You should notice significant improvement within the first 20 hours of dedicated practie time. |
| Alycia Niederriter 08.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by johney
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| Hellen Mindrup 08.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by synthet1c
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| Jonathan Chiuchiolo 08.10.2013 | I can't mix one ear headphone, one ear speakers... I always get the tempo right in the headphones then mix in by taking the headphones off and readjusting my focus to the speaker output. |
| Augustine Mitzen 08.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Daily Crisis
down - speed track up up - slow track down |
| Hank Guidas 08.10.2013 | It doesn't matter how you do it. It's all a matter of preference. |
| Warner Rotberg 08.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Daily Crisis
^^^^^^^ What he said. |
| Alycia Niederriter 08.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by happydan
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| Evalyn Voges 08.10.2013 | One option to take baby steps would be to use tempo sync so you get a hang of the phrasing and how the jog wheels affect the music, and once you're confident, turn off sync and learn the pitch fader. |
| Alycia Niederriter 08.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Patch
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| Brunilda Kora 08.10.2013 | DC - you missed Step 4. Step 4. Goto Step 1. |
| Alycia Niederriter 08.10.2013 | Nah seriously, if you practice, you'll do it. It's best if you don't use Sync and it's good if you don't get in to the habit of using sync all the time for your mixes. Try beat matching with just your monitors (both channel faders up) and then develop it using one ear on one track with headphones (cue mix or whatever the fuck it's called) and the other track on the monitors... You'll get the hang of it |
| Alycia Niederriter 08.10.2013 | You can do this in 3 'easy' steps! Step 1. Practice Step 2. More Practice Step 3. Even More Practice |
| Leanora Gerald 08.10.2013 | Try using the CUE/MASTER knob on your software/controller/mixer/whatever to balance the sources into your headphones, I find it very helpful (nonetheless I am a disaster in beatmatching). |
| Evalyn Voges 08.10.2013 | I'd say that you should do what works best for you. Workflow will be different for everyone. As a side note, it might actually be useful to be comfortable mixing in just headphones. A lot of club PA systems have a significant delay in the audio between your mixer and the speakers. One tip my friend uses is to listen to the hats and other higher frequencies and use them for matching. GJ on wanting to learn the fundamentals of the discipline! |
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