How do you remember how many bars the intro or outro of a song has?

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How do you remember how many bars the intro or outro of a song has?
Posted on: 14.05.2012 by Pia Lanouette
My question is pretty much summed up in the title but what's the best way to remember how long the intro or outro of a song is? Maybe the "comment" section in the ID3 tag? Or do you just put the track on another deck and manually count it every time you play a song?
Sylvia Greener
18.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
There's an old story
Dorie Scelzo
17.05.2012
Originally Posted by djlotus
it's all practice
There's an old story
Sylvia Greener
18.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
There's an old story
Dorie Scelzo
17.05.2012
Originally Posted by djlotus
it's all practice
There's an old story
Sylvia Greener
18.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
There's an old story
Dorie Scelzo
17.05.2012
Originally Posted by djlotus
it's all practice
There's an old story
Ira Alsadi
17.05.2012
Originally Posted by djet0
THIS. This is one of the topics I teach to all newbies. (You've also forgotten 8, buddy. :P) It is THE essential tool to mixing next to beat matching.
When you don't know a song well enough, you follow this algorithm and it will work all the time albeit being perfect. As long as you make sure you start at the end a phrase/beginning of a new phrase, you'll be pretty much spot on.
Damn it! LOL.

The next thing you need to learn is to keep it on the ones. After that, it's all practice and listening to your tunes.
Dione Haimes
17.05.2012
Originally Posted by Liambo
You could just get to know your tracks and know when things happen in that track?
qft
Viviana Tarno
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by Calum
but if you're syncing, and have your intro/outro's set up on all your tracks what the hell are you doing for the time between?
That, my friend, is how the jesus pose was invented.
Denyse Waterland
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by djlotus
Does no one bother to learn the basics anymore?

not to start the same old sync argument. in fact please dont.

but if you're syncing, and have your intro/outro's set up on all your tracks what the hell are you doing for the time between?
Lashawn Maycock
16.05.2012		This:

Originally Posted by djlotus
Does no one bother to learn the basics anymore? Learn the math behind the music. 4-16-32-64. These are your magic numbers
The formula for 99% of music produced at a time signature of 4/4 follows the number theory above.
This:

Originally Posted by SirReal
So, I spent the last three months collecting tracks for a mix. I then spent a week or so just listening to the tracks and assembling them in a general order for a demo mix based on the over all shape of the mix and what I thought would mix well together. When I finally had a free evening to mix, I set Traktor to record and recorded my mix changing the order based on what I was feeling, never having mixed these tracks before. While it wasn't absolutely perfect, the timing on most mixies was pretty spot on, meaning, I was letting tracks play out to the end and hitting on the "drop" of the incoming track. Mixing was anywhere between 45 seconds to 4 minutes between tracks. My point? If you're familiar with your tracks and have a decent understanding of track structure, a lot of the "guess work" and pre-programming becomes useless, you just "feel it" Not really any other way to explain it, i liken it to the an Athlete being "in the zone". It's when you stop believeing so much and just "let go".
This:

Originally Posted by JasonBay
SirReal is a man after my own heart. I can't remember the last time I 'pre-planned' a set besides maybe know the first two or three tracks planned out so I don't have to believe about it and just be in the zone, as SirReal puts it. Once you "let go" and don't worry about messing up and freaking out about how many bars are here or there, then you'll really start putting together some bomb ass mixes that just flow and go.
and this:

Originally Posted by shr3dder
In 10 years of DJing I've never pre-planned a set.

I mean you have ideas like this goes with that, I'll close with that etc etc...

but in terms of planning what to play, where to mix out, setting cue points etc never. I kinda just trust my instincts. Plus its more fun that way.
Totally agree with the posts above. It amazes me how many people get hung up on the tech and should I do this, should I do that. IMO, it's simple; more time with music and practice. DJing should be second nature, in fact I love mixing up new or unknown tracks, the only cue points I use is the first one at the start of track which Traktor puts in, I just don't use them, everything is done on the fly and looping when appropriate.

I suppose I'm just an old man at 34 who grew up with 2x turntables, a cheap mixer and a bunch of records, listened to loads of mixtapes and practiced. The digital age has brought lots of advantages and I'm for all for it but my approach has never changed. Please don't believe this is some form of boastful post, it's not meant to be, DJing is not complicated but it is a skill to be learnt and as someone else said its about playing the right music at the right time.
Jame Shelling
15.05.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
I'm honestly surprised to hear that a lot of people do this.
Me to....
Tesha Freudenstein
18.05.2012		why would you want to know that?
Faustino Stringfellow
18.05.2012		My 2 pence worth.

Turn off the monitor after you've loaded your 4 tracks, mix between them by ear. This is not a dig at the sync users, more a dig at those people who believe technology is the answer.

Your ears are the best device when mixing, the rest is just glitter on shit.

As for learning how long an intro/outro is, how do you believe we used to do it 10-15-20 years ago ? We listened and listened and listened, we got our mates round and listened and listened and listened. There's tracks I was playing back in 87-88 that I still know inside out and can mix blindly, yet the latest MP3/WAV's I have to guess a lot of the time.

It's been said before PRACTICE ! PRACTICE ! PRACTICE ! it's the only winning solution.
Sylvia Greener
18.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
There's an old story
Dorie Scelzo
17.05.2012
Originally Posted by djlotus
it's all practice
There's an old story
Ira Alsadi
17.05.2012
Originally Posted by djet0
THIS. This is one of the topics I teach to all newbies. (You've also forgotten 8, buddy. :P) It is THE essential tool to mixing next to beat matching.
When you don't know a song well enough, you follow this algorithm and it will work all the time albeit being perfect. As long as you make sure you start at the end a phrase/beginning of a new phrase, you'll be pretty much spot on.
Damn it! LOL.

The next thing you need to learn is to keep it on the ones. After that, it's all practice and listening to your tunes.
Brunilda Kora
17.05.2012
Ahhh the days of vinyl. If you stared closely you might be able to see the breakdown coming up.
Now THOSE were the days!!!
Dione Haimes
17.05.2012
Originally Posted by Liambo
You could just get to know your tracks and know when things happen in that track?
qft
Viviana Tarno
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by Calum
but if you're syncing, and have your intro/outro's set up on all your tracks what the hell are you doing for the time between?
That, my friend, is how the jesus pose was invented.
Denyse Waterland
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by djlotus
Does no one bother to learn the basics anymore?

not to start the same old sync argument. in fact please dont.

but if you're syncing, and have your intro/outro's set up on all your tracks what the hell are you doing for the time between?
Lashawn Maycock
16.05.2012		This:

Originally Posted by djlotus
Does no one bother to learn the basics anymore? Learn the math behind the music. 4-16-32-64. These are your magic numbers
The formula for 99% of music produced at a time signature of 4/4 follows the number theory above.
This:

Originally Posted by SirReal
So, I spent the last three months collecting tracks for a mix. I then spent a week or so just listening to the tracks and assembling them in a general order for a demo mix based on the over all shape of the mix and what I thought would mix well together. When I finally had a free evening to mix, I set Traktor to record and recorded my mix changing the order based on what I was feeling, never having mixed these tracks before. While it wasn't absolutely perfect, the timing on most mixies was pretty spot on, meaning, I was letting tracks play out to the end and hitting on the "drop" of the incoming track. Mixing was anywhere between 45 seconds to 4 minutes between tracks. My point? If you're familiar with your tracks and have a decent understanding of track structure, a lot of the "guess work" and pre-programming becomes useless, you just "feel it" Not really any other way to explain it, i liken it to the an Athlete being "in the zone". It's when you stop believeing so much and just "let go".
This:

Originally Posted by JasonBay
SirReal is a man after my own heart. I can't remember the last time I 'pre-planned' a set besides maybe know the first two or three tracks planned out so I don't have to believe about it and just be in the zone, as SirReal puts it. Once you "let go" and don't worry about messing up and freaking out about how many bars are here or there, then you'll really start putting together some bomb ass mixes that just flow and go.
and this:

Originally Posted by shr3dder
In 10 years of DJing I've never pre-planned a set.

I mean you have ideas like this goes with that, I'll close with that etc etc...

but in terms of planning what to play, where to mix out, setting cue points etc never. I kinda just trust my instincts. Plus its more fun that way.
Totally agree with the posts above. It amazes me how many people get hung up on the tech and should I do this, should I do that. IMO, it's simple; more time with music and practice. DJing should be second nature, in fact I love mixing up new or unknown tracks, the only cue points I use is the first one at the start of track which Traktor puts in, I just don't use them, everything is done on the fly and looping when appropriate.

I suppose I'm just an old man at 34 who grew up with 2x turntables, a cheap mixer and a bunch of records, listened to loads of mixtapes and practiced. The digital age has brought lots of advantages and I'm for all for it but my approach has never changed. Please don't believe this is some form of boastful post, it's not meant to be, DJing is not complicated but it is a skill to be learnt and as someone else said its about playing the right music at the right time.
Ara Tima
16.05.2012		In 10 years of DJing I've never pre-planned a set.

I mean you have ideas like this goes with that, I'll close with that etc etc...

but in terms of planning what to play, where to mix out, setting cue points etc never. I kinda just trust my instincts. Plus its more fun that way.
Georgina Schatzman
16.05.2012		SirReal is a man after my own heart. I can't remember the last time I 'pre-planned' a set besides maybe know the first two or three tracks planned out so I don't have to believe about it and just be in the zone, as SirReal puts it. Once you "let go" and don't worry about messing up and freaking out about how many bars are here or there, then you'll really start putting together some bomb ass mixes that just flow and go.
Antonetta Wikel
16.05.2012		So, I spent the last three months collecting tracks for a mix. I then spent a week or so just listening to the tracks and assembling them in a general order for a demo mix based on the over all shape of the mix and what I thought would mix well together. When I finally had a free evening to mix, I set Traktor to record and recorded my mix changing the order based on what I was feeling, never having mixed these tracks before. While it wasn't absolutely perfect, the timing on most mixies was pretty spot on, meaning, I was letting tracks play out to the end and hitting on the "drop" of the incoming track. Mixing was anywhere between 45 seconds to 4 minutes between tracks. My point? If you're familiar with your tracks and have a decent understanding of track structure, a lot of the "guess work" and pre-programming becomes useless, you just "feel it" Not really any other way to explain it, i liken it to the an Athlete being "in the zone". It's when you stop believeing so much and just "let go".
Ira Alsadi
16.05.2012		Does no one bother to learn the basics anymore? Learn the math behind the music. 4-16-32-64. These are your magic numbers
The formula for 99% of music produced at a time signature of 4/4 follows the number theory above.
Georgina Schatzman
15.05.2012		Nothing to do with being superior, just astonished at how little DJ's know about music anymore and are relying more on technology to compensate for it, especially things that should come naturally to a DJ, liking being able to feel a track out and pick up on all the little audio cues that help define an arrangement and that should make it easier for them to mix.
Jame Shelling
15.05.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
I'm honestly surprised to hear that a lot of people do this.
Me to....
Jerlene Jernegan
15.05.2012		Dude Jason, you've given your input and that's all well and good but let people talk a little bit here. Nobody can say anything without you repeating yourself. Props to you if you never use cues but for many people they're very helpful so instead of acting superior to those who use cues, maybe explain how you mix without them and give some pointers because what you've been saying isn't adding much to the conversation.

Edit: Re reading your posts I realized I might have over reacted a little bit but I'm just getting annoyed with people competing for best DJ. Sorry if I came off sounding mean.
Lashawn Maycock
15.05.2012		I'm also in the camp of struggling to understand why you would want to remember or have visual aids for a track intro and outro (certainly from a dance music perspective), a basic grasp of song structure and listening to the track is all you need, in fact the track itself gives audible cues to when musical changes are going to occur (8 bars usually). With practice it hopefully will become 2nd nature, basic element to DJing IMHO.
Ara Tima
15.05.2012		Ahhh the days of vinyl. If you stared closely you might be able to see the breakdown coming up.
Georgina Schatzman
15.05.2012		Start listening with your ears and not your eyes
Spencer Kilcoyne
15.05.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
I'm honestly surprised to hear that a lot of people do this.
Same here - I know my records, and don't need to use cue points ...
Alla Bluemke
15.05.2012
Originally Posted by Calum
things like this become a lot easier when you take away the visual element
Agreed. Sometimes staring at the waveform is a huge hinderance, cause its so hard to predict the song change visually. You need to know you tracks, and it not learn how tracks build and break, you will get that "feel" more naturally on songs. You can't be perfect but you damn well can practice and listen to your tracks to get really good at learning anticipation.
Denyse Waterland
15.05.2012		things like this become a lot easier when you take away the visual element
Palma Hanslip
15.05.2012		You could just get to know your tracks and know when things happen in that track?
Kristofer Krauel
15.05.2012		You could also use the "beats to cue" option in the decks layout. Quite simply tells you how many beats until your next cue point so if you st a cue at the end of the intro you are sorted!
Erica Charvet
15.05.2012		I can almost always tell how many bars there are just by looking at the length of the track compared to the into/outro section.

If that fails, the beatjump +/- 8 beats works wonders!
Georgina Schatzman
15.05.2012		I'm honestly surprised to hear that a lot of people do this.
Marshall Aby
15.05.2012		My Cuepoints are usually marked up as "Beat 32" or "Intro 16" which gives you the beats until the next cuepoint. Or yeah, listen to the intro before mixing it in.

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